Meat Hygeine

[oldsailor35]

Squeezing meat......in public?

Saw that going on in Pattaya once.

[phuturatica]

It's only an issue because those of us who are born into a Western society are not used to the germs and bacteria that are in Thailand. I think the main problem is, we spend so much time and effort worrying about germs in our home countries that our body has no immune system to fight off these germs should we come into contact with them. That's why so many tourists and foreigners get sick off the food and water and whatnot.

I see on a regular day to day basis meat and other foods being handled in such a way that you wouldn't dream of in my home country and sometimes it does weird me out a little but I'm still alive afterwards. Of course I've have the dreaded case of food poisoning and whatnot but I think it's down to our body's immune system not being strong enough to fight off germs and bacteria which enter our bodies.

[evadgib]

Having eaten meat from Laem Din market (walking distance from the OP & the main sourse of meat there until a decade ago) I am of the opinion that the flies etc actually boost the immune system & make us less susceptable to galloping gut rot.

How often are residents poleaxed a few days after returning from a visit to (sterile) Europe?

Edited May 8, 2012 by evadgib

[h90]

It's only an issue because those of us who are born into a Western society are not used to the germs and bacteria that are in Thailand. I think the main problem is, we spend so much time and effort worrying about germs in our home countries that our body has no immune system to fight off these germs should we come into contact with them. That's why so many tourists and foreigners get sick off the food and water and whatnot.

I see on a regular day to day basis meat and other foods being handled in such a way that you wouldn't dream of in my home country and sometimes it does weird me out a little but I'm still alive afterwards. Of course I've have the dreaded case of food poisoning and whatnot but I think it's down to our body's immune system not being strong enough to fight off germs and bacteria which enter our bodies.

Well it depends...many cases are ugly but not dangerous....dirty meat full of bacteria and than fried is not worse than super clean one. To fry it kills all.

some bacteria in the own kitchen aren't a problem. And the usual stomach can kill many things. There is a very wide field between super clean and really damaging. People tend to be on one or the other extreme. Some balanced thinking is very rare....

If meat really starts to rotten down, you can get a food poisoning that is not or not only from bacteria, it poison and you may need years to fully recover.....I have seen one case....

[kerryk]

The markets are also another source to consider when purchasing meat. I used to think meat in Thailand was black until they whacked it with a stick and the flies flew off.

If the meat does not have flies that means it was sprayed with insect spray. Better the flies. (Outdoor markets)

[nocturn]

ive seen thais squeezing every loaf of bread on the shelf before choosing one ,or maybe then deciding not to purchase

and walking off having given the bread a good handling

this is probably worse ,because bread doesnt get cooked before its eaten so any bacteria on their hands will be transfered

straight into your mouth

Hopefully the people squeezing the bread had not already handled the meat and fish.

Of course they have, thats the Thai pleasure of shopping, squeeze, poke,prod handle and smell everything wether buying or not, just watch them buying or looking at fish...........straight to their nose !

Its a Thai habit which needs to be educated out of them.

the first thing i do when contemplating the purchase or consumption of a piece of fish is smell it. you would have to be mad not to.

you pretend restaurant kitchens in the homeland are better. better you should not know.

the only people i see forgoing use of the tongs at foodland soi 5 are foreign. thais use em religiously. and who says the tongs are clean?

i honestly believe this is a topic about nothing.

Edited May 8, 2012 by nocturn

[kerryk]

Scratching their backsides and heads. They just cannot help themselves. Is it possible to be more racist against Thais? What utter nonsense. Never have I seen anything like this in a market in Thailand. They? They? Whenever I hear those words preface to a racial slur I get up and leave. As I will do now and leave you all to sling some more mud in violation to all the rules of Thai Visa. Not to post extremely negative views of Thailand or derogatory comments directed towards all Thais. If "Scratching tghesir backsides and heads. They just cannot help themselves is not extremely negative I don't know what is. I must be out of touch with the English language on this one because it was in the OP.

[flying]

So...has anyone come up with any scientific documentation of the numbers that have fallen ill?

Foreign or local.

No but .......

When I first came here years ago the sight of what the OP is describing worried me.

Also coming from the US & going to the Thai village markets to buy meats made me worry.

After all we are told back home to not cross contaminate between chicken & pork juices etc.

Yet they are chopping on the same block of wood

Back home they will not even use the same carving machines to cut both pork & fowl

Yet here we see it daily in villages & probably if we look we see it in major markets too.

Yet I have not had so much as a stomach upset in all this time. Then again I rarely get upset

in the US from food either.

But it does make me wonder if our rules & regs back home are due to the fact that much of the meats we eat has actually been

dead for weeks/months before we buy them & are pumped up with chemicals that keep them edible/store-able.

Perhaps those are actually the reactions? The meats in the village are usually slaughtered that morning

Dunno

Just something I have wondered about at times.

[necronx99]

So...has anyone come up with any scientific documentation of the numbers that have fallen ill?

Foreign or local.

No but .......

When I first came here years ago the sight of what the OP is describing worried me.

Also coming from the US & going to the Thai village markets to buy meats made me worry.

After all we are told back home to not cross contaminate between chicken & pork juices etc.

Yet they are chopping on the same block of wood

Back home they will not even use the same carving machines to cut both pork & fowl

Yet here we see it daily in villages & probably if we look we see it in major markets too.

Yet I have not had so much as a stomach upset in all this time. Then again I rarely get upset

in the US from food either.

But it does make me wonder if our rules & regs back home are due to the fact that much of the meats we eat has actually been

dead for weeks/months before we buy them & are pumped up with chemicals that keep them edible/store-able.

Perhaps those are actually the reactions? The meats in the village are usually slaughtered that morning

Dunno

Just something I have wondered about at times.

Storage and longevity are contributing issues.

But the reality is that if you eat any resteraunt or cafe/diner food back home it's probabaly been treated just as badly. You just didn't get to see it,.

Edited May 8, 2012 by necronx99

[David48]

The markets are also another source to consider when purchasing meat. I used to think meat in Thailand was black until they whacked it with a stick and the flies flew off.

If the meat does not have flies that means it was sprayed with insect spray. Better the flies. (Outdoor markets)

I'm learning every day.

I've seen the use of formaldehyde used to preserve chickens.

The use of cosmetics to keep the pink colour in certain shell fish

But is the use of fly spray common in the way kerryk mentions above?

Edited May 8, 2012 by David48

[David48]

Formaldehyde food scare in Indonesia

...

Now the chemical formaldehyde is at the centre of massive food scare in Indonesia.

Authorities have raided street food stalls and restaurants after discovering that many were using formaldehyde as a preservative.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/World/Formaldehyde-food-scare-in-Indonesia/2006/01/09/1136771495164.html

[wana]

The markets are also another source to consider when purchasing meat. I used to think meat in Thailand was black until they whacked it with a stick and the flies flew off.

If the meat does not have flies that means it was sprayed with insect spray. Better the flies. (Outdoor markets)

I'm learning every day.

I've seen the use of formaldehyde used to preserve chickens.

The use of cosmetics to keep the pink colour in certain shell fish

But is the use of fly spray common in the way kerryk mentions above?

probably ,yes

i have eaten some fruits before that tasted very stongly of a weird chemical i can only guess was a pesticide (watermelon BTW )

it was manky ,i had to throw it away ,thinking it was past its use by date

then i got another one a few days later from the same vendor and it had the exact same chemical taste

horrible ,i never went to that vendor again

yesterday i ate a watermelon from a differnt soi and it tasted neutral or like normal

no strong chemical taste

i dont see why they wouldnt spray the meat with a bit of fly spray ,it would sure beat swatting the flies all ay if you

worked there .........

[Mosha]

Good job you don't go to Rannong, they sit in the meat with a fag in there mouths with rats running around.people pick up what they want and disregard the rest.This is Thailand, get use to it. maybe us westerners are to sterile for our own good.

Go to Tesco in Ranong. Tongs are provided, do they use them? Do they heck. Going to the local markets, I try to get there before the flies.

[londoedan]

Scratching their backsides and heads. They just cannot help themselves. Is it possible to be more racist against Thais? What utter nonsense. Never have I seen anything like this in a market in Thailand. They? They? Whenever I hear those words preface to a racial slur I get up and leave. As I will do now and leave you all to sling some more mud in violation to all the rules of Thai Visa. Not to post extremely negative views of Thailand or derogatory comments directed towards all Thais. If "Scratching tghesir backsides and heads. They just cannot help themselves is not extremely negative I don't know what is. I must be out of touch with the English language on this one because it was in the OP.

Spot on ! (I'm beginning to get a mite concerned since I'm agreeing with more and more of kerryk posts)

[kerryk]

So...has anyone come up with any scientific documentation of the numbers that have fallen ill?

Foreign or local.

No but .......

When I first came here years ago the sight of what the OP is describing worried me.

Also coming from the US & going to the Thai village markets to buy meats made me worry.

After all we are told back home to not cross contaminate between chicken & pork juices etc.

Yet they are chopping on the same block of wood

Back home they will not even use the same carving machines to cut both pork & fowl

Yet here we see it daily in villages & probably if we look we see it in major markets too.

Yet I have not had so much as a stomach upset in all this time. Then again I rarely get upset

in the US from food either.

But it does make me wonder if our rules & regs back home are due to the fact that much of the meats we eat has actually been

dead for weeks/months before we buy them & are pumped up with chemicals that keep them edible/store-able.

Perhaps those are actually the reactions? The meats in the village are usually slaughtered that morning

Dunno

Just something I have wondered about at times.

It costs money to store meat. Space, utilities to name just two expenses. The longer the meat is stored, for example dry aging the more expensive it is. Dry aged meat is 100% and more above wet aged meat. All good meat is aged at least a few days or the taste is horrid. Like Thai beef. Most good beef is aged sealed in plastic at least 27 days (not the steak but the whole primal cut).

Thailand does not know how to slaughter or age beef and that is one reason beef has such a bad flavor here. Beef has to be happy when it is killed or it tastes funny. Kind of a sour taste and very red color as opposed to a dark red.

Beef has a number of grades most of the good stuff goes only to restaurants the next grade down to grocery stores and down to pet food makers. From dry aged prime beef to commercial and cutter beef for canned stews.

So to speak specifically to beef killed that morning is not fit to eat. Same reason you hang a deer for a couple of days after you shoot it.

Pork and chicken are different.

[kerryk]

The markets are also another source to consider when purchasing meat. I used to think meat in Thailand was black until they whacked it with a stick and the flies flew off.

If the meat does not have flies that means it was sprayed with insect spray. Better the flies. (Outdoor markets)

I'm learning every day.

I've seen the use of formaldehyde used to preserve chickens.

The use of cosmetics to keep the pink colour in certain shell fish

But is the use of fly spray common in the way kerryk mentions above?

There were 4 outdoor markets in Pattaya about 4 years ago. One out of the 4 was found to use spray. It made the Thai newspapers which is why I knew about it.

[doggie888888]

Scratching their backsides and heads. They just cannot help themselves. Is it possible to be more racist against Thais? What utter nonsense. Never have I seen anything like this in a market in Thailand. They? They? Whenever I hear those words preface to a racial slur I get up and leave. As I will do now and leave you all to sling some more mud in violation to all the rules of Thai Visa. Not to post extremely negative views of Thailand or derogatory comments directed towards all Thais. If "Scratching tghesir backsides and heads. They just cannot help themselves is not extremely negative I don't know what is. I must be out of touch with the English language on this one because it was in the OP.

"They" exist to make some of "us" feel we are oh-so-civilised-and-educated. Fortunately, "they" don't give a stuff about what "we" think of "them" despite our sense of self-importance.

Edited May 9, 2012 by doggie888888

[trainman34014]

Here we go...when I was a young lad in England in the 50's our Mum's bought their meat/fish at the local Butchers or Fishmongers where it was all just laid out on marble slabs with no covers,tongs,plastic gloves, fly killing lamps,ice or any other fandango way to protect you or the product. Sainsburys and the Maypole were where you bought sliced meats and cheeses and they also had it all on marble slabs. I well remember cake shops with flies and wasps on the cakes and you bought your biscuits by the pound out of open topped large tins by taking them out with your fingers and putting them in brown paper bags to be weighed. I could go on but suffice to say nobody I ever knew in those days died from food poisoning; hence most of us are still here today to tell the tale. Indeed; I have known more people in modern times with all the food safety precautions we now have to fall foul of food poisoning and the like. Anyone who cooks knows that the majority of germs will be cooked out of meat and fish if they are cooked properly and all vegetables etc should be washed before they are cooked.

All in all I don't care if the Thai's handle the meat or fish I may later buy because I know it will be cooked well in my home. If you come to live here you should expect exactly what you get, so get on with it !

[farang000999]

it is gross to see the flies covering the meat and i personally cannot go and buy it like that even though i am sure restaurants that i eat at do, but i doubt it is really that big of a deal once the meat is cooked. the same goes for people touching meat with their hands. the real concern is the chemicals and pesticides and whatever the local clown decides to use to try and hide that the food is near spoiled.

you can complain about the hermones and chemcials in the West, but like everything else, you know the Thais are doing it just as bad if not worse. if this is a concern, best to have your own garden. it is not very difficult.

[wana]

it is gross to see the flies covering the meat and i personally cannot go and buy it like that even though i am sure restaurants that i eat at do, but i doubt it is really that big of a deal once the meat is cooked. the same goes for people touching meat with their hands. the real concern is the chemicals and pesticides and whatever the local clown decides to use to try and hide that the food is near spoiled.

you can complain about the hermones and chemcials in the West, but like everything else, you know the Thais are doing it just as bad if not worse. if this is a concern, best to have your own garden. it is not very difficult.

its pretty hard to produce your own beef on a balcony ..........

for those in bkk ,they are at the mercy of the food manufacturers/sellers /roadside stalls

ive had milk in my fridge that lasted 11-12 days past the use by date and still didnt turn

fruit that was so bad you could taste some chemicals in it

even roadside stalls dump a large spoon of msg into every meal "to make it good taste "

and god only knows what kind of oil and the age of it they fry with ,ive seen fried chicken in oil

so dark you couldnt even tell there were about30 chicken pieces under sthe surface of the oil

bloody delicious though ,but probably hazardous at te same time

[TomTao]

The only time I will not buy meat from the market here in Chumphon is on the days that meat is not slaughtered, the meat is often not stored in a coolroom over night, brought meat once in Lang Suan on a no slaughter day, the meat stank of amonia, so didn't even get to eat it, just tossed it and learnt from the experience. Nothing wrong with buying meat from the market otherwise, at least its not stored for weeks after slaughter like back home, it is actually fresh here, killed on the day, never been sick from meat purchased at the market.

[kerryk]

The only time I will not buy meat from the market here in Chumphon is on the days that meat is not slaughtered, the meat is often not stored in a coolroom over night, brought meat once in Lang Suan on a no slaughter day, the meat stank of amonia, so didn't even get to eat it, just tossed it and learnt from the experience. Nothing wrong with buying meat from the market otherwise, at least its not stored for weeks after slaughter like back home, it is actually fresh here, killed on the day, never been sick from meat purchased at the market.

Google "aging beef" if you want to be well informed about the process. If you would rather your home spun ideas; don't. Up to you.

[simple1]

Just done some brief reseach via Google and their is a WHO report that states approx 1,000,000 cases p.a. of food related illness in Thailand in 2004 refer http://www.fao.org/DOCREP/MEETING/006/AD703E/AD703E00.HTM

A more recent scientific study, 2011, of food bourne disease in Thailand is http://www.eurojournals.com/EJSR_52_1_13.pdf

[YipYipYa123]

The risk of food poisoning is very low , even if someone picks his nose or scratches their balls or arsehol_e and proceeds to make your food with no hand

Washing in between, its just the disgusting factor that bothers people....

[kerryk]

The risk of food poisoning is very low , even if someone picks his nose or scratches their balls or arsehol_e and proceeds to make your food with no hand

Washing in between, its just the disgusting factor that bothers people....

Gotta ask. Where in a grocery store have you seen a Thai scratching their balls or arsehol? Because I think this is a figment of a troubled anti Thai mind.

[YipYipYa123]

Road side stalls, in the middle of know where, no toilet

Vendor needs to use the facilities behind a tree

No place to wash hands, does he :

Close the shop because his hands are dirty?

Or continue as normal handling food ?

Its not anti-thai, its just the reality of it, in Many countries sub standard or no health standards are practiced

[bendix]

My best friend in Thailand is a typical conservative Brit. He refuses to eat Thai food, even in restaurants let alone on the street. Foodcourts are a no go, the spotlessly clean fruit vendors are anethema (he prefers tinned fruit in syrup), and he thinks the orange juice vendors on the street are filthy and prefers, instead, to gulp down saccarine sweet Gatorade type drinks or sweetened juice cartons.

He's petrified of what he sees poor food standards.

Which is ironic given his diet comprises tinned meat such as spam, ham and processed cheese sandwiches and the occasional yoghurt.

Needless to say he is rapidly becoming very fat and rather sickly.

[kerryk]

Road side stalls, in the middle of know where, no toilet

Vendor needs to use the facilities behind a tree

No place to wash hands, does he :

Close the shop because his hands are dirty?

Or continue as normal handling food ?

Its not anti-thai, its just the reality of it, in Many countries sub standard or no health standards are practiced

That is just silly. There is always water at road side stands. They wash things. They drink water. Thais are water freaks. There is water everywhere. Maybe you are talking about India. Thais are very clean people. Tell us exactly where you saw a Thai vendor scratching his arshol. An Arshol is a very specific organ and occupies a very specific place on the body. Thais are also modest. What vendor would show you his or her arshol? Time to admit it. You were making things up. You have never seen this in Thailand. And also tell us if it is a common occurrence. Where do you see vendors scratching their arshols every day?

[smokie36]

It's only an issue because those of us who are born into a Western society are not used to the germs and bacteria that are in Thailand. I think the main problem is, we spend so much time and effort worrying about germs in our home countries that our body has no immune system to fight off these germs should we come into contact with them. That's why so many tourists and foreigners get sick off the food and water and whatnot.

I see on a regular day to day basis meat and other foods being handled in such a way that you wouldn't dream of in my home country and sometimes it does weird me out a little but I'm still alive afterwards. Of course I've have the dreaded case of food poisoning and whatnot but I think it's down to our body's immune system not being strong enough to fight off germs and bacteria which enter our bodies.

This is true. I was raised on haggis and black pudding.

Being a poor family of course we couldn't afford a cooker or even some wood for a fire so we used to eat them raw.

Of course this wasn't too much of a hardship if supplemented by foraging for worms from time to time. So many happy memories.

Now I never get sick. Ever.

[bendix]

Its not anti-thai, its just the reality of it

Yes it is.

And not it isn't.