2 Out Of Three Thai Families Are In Debt: Survey

[KireB]

Hardly anyone on the planet pays cash for a car.

And that's why many people have financial stress! If you can't afford a car, take a motorbike, if you can't afford a motorbike take a bicycle or take the bus!

50 years ago, hardly anyone had a car and people went from A to B without problem. A car is a luxury item.

It's very simple: don't borrow money! You'll enslave yourself to country and banks!

[Ferangled]

"Thais would have to be among the most irresponsible people in the world regarding money."

Personally I would have thought that title should be reserved for the US http://www.usdebtclock.org/

No other country even comes close...

Generally a bit of a non story, figures are dubious in the extreme - 15 million families surveyed? That's stretching the imagination somewhat!

Most Thais I know actually live to their means much better than their western counterparts, who are so accustomed to life in debt it's seen as normal... mortgage, car loan, credit cards, overdraft, store cards etc. You're seen as the exception to the rule if you're not in debt.

Yep. No other country comes close. And no other country created the global economy. By the way, most Thais are in debt, as another article just revealed (today). That isn't surprising. Thailand is one of the slowest-growing ASEAN economies. You have no idea what you're talking about. The only reason you know Western economies are in debt is because they're honest about they're economic straits.

You are clearly an economic mastermind. The global economy was not created by the US, it is by definition based on the economies of all nations... Yes, the US have created much of the damage to it, the current climate of debt and the vast overspending of their population is indicative of the problems faced by the global economy as a whole.

As to the honesty of US economics, you have clearly been asleep for a few decades...

[osiboy]

as OP have already mentioned , a motgage is a debt and i would guess 70% have them in the UK, .....A £100,000 Mortgage is 50m Baht ,.......... i dont think mant thais have debts anywhere near that amount , everything being relative, most thais are better off than us westerners !

[Unkomoncents]

"Thais would have to be among the most irresponsible people in the world regarding money."

Personally I would have thought that title should be reserved for the US http://www.usdebtclock.org/

No other country even comes close...

Generally a bit of a non story, figures are dubious in the extreme - 15 million families surveyed? That's stretching the imagination somewhat!

Most Thais I know actually live to their means much better than their western counterparts, who are so accustomed to life in debt it's seen as normal... mortgage, car loan, credit cards, overdraft, store cards etc. You're seen as the exception to the rule if you're not in debt.

Yep. No other country comes close. And no other country created the global economy. By the way, most Thais are in debt, as another article just revealed (today). That isn't surprising. Thailand is one of the slowest-growing ASEAN economies. You have no idea what you're talking about. The only reason you know Western economies are in debt is because they're honest about they're economic straits.

You are clearly an economic mastermind. The global economy was not created by the US, it is by definition based on the economies of all nations... Yes, the US have created much of the damage to it, the current climate of debt and the vast overspending of their population is indicative of the problems faced by the global economy as a whole.

As to the honesty of US economics, you have clearly been asleep for a few decades...

Thanks for the correction. The Bretton Woods Conference was clearly masterminded by others. Blah, blah, blah...so who do you hold up as the model for the world's economy? Please enlighten those of us who are so ignorant.

[mca]

.A £100,000 Mortgage is 50m Baht ,........

I certainly hope not osi!

[Superdude]

as OP have already mentioned , a motgage is a debt and i would guess 70% have them in the UK, .....A £100,000 Mortgage is 50m Baht ,.......... i dont think mant thais have debts anywhere near that amount , everything being relative, most thais are better off than us westerners !

Approx 5 million Thai baht would come closer to your result of calculation

[BigJohnnyBKK]

The only responsible form of debt is a mortgage for a home because the alternative is paying rent. Even then, you need to choose modestly and weigh all factors.

If you cannot buy a car in cash than you cannot afford it.

Credit cards should never be used.

This is a very logical POV and completely correct IMO, but sadly ignored by nearly all of the developed world.

Of course CC should be used, but only if the balance is paid in full before any interest incurred.

LMAO! Hardly anyone on the planet pays cash for a car.

And how's that working for the planet these days?

American family have no debt.

Are you insane, or just trolling?

The critical problems we need to solve are sustainable economics that don't rely on infinite growth, and how to de-couple growth from resource consumption and material consumption from human happiness.

America certainly has led the world in its traditional economic growth model, but that is IMO simply leading all of humanity toward a major train wreck faster and faster.

[daninthai]

Well, I am only guessing but I would have thought that the number of families in debt in the UK and US would be higher. Much of Thailand is still a cash society, I don't know if the debt issue is as out of control as it is in the West for many families. I suppose comparative size of debt is an important issue. The way I have seen most families end up in huge debt is with the Father or Mother taking to gambling, be it on football, lottery or cards. The problem is massive. God help the day they ever allow casinos in this country.

Agreed

[daninthai]

American family have no debt.

Divert......... Problem with Thais noticed........ divert immediately......... point to farang...........

[lungmi]

American family have no

debt.

Some American families have no debt, most of them are Canadians, most of Canadians with no debt are Inuit.

Edited May 9, 2012 by lungmi

[moonbarman]

as OP have already mentioned , a motgage is a debt and i would guess 70% have them in the UK, .....A £100,000 Mortgage is 50m Baht ,.......... i dont think mant thais have debts anywhere near that amount , everything being relative, most thais are better off than us westerners !

Approx 5 million Thai baht would come closer to your result of calculation

perhaps he was working for a thai survey company and his calculator added an extra 0.

[Ferangled]

"Thais would have to be among the most irresponsible people in the world regarding money."

Personally I would have thought that title should be reserved for the US http://www.usdebtclock.org/

No other country even comes close...

Generally a bit of a non story, figures are dubious in the extreme - 15 million families surveyed? That's stretching the imagination somewhat!

Most Thais I know actually live to their means much better than their western counterparts, who are so accustomed to life in debt it's seen as normal... mortgage, car loan, credit cards, overdraft, store cards etc. You're seen as the exception to the rule if you're not in debt.

Yep. No other country comes close. And no other country created the global economy. By the way, most Thais are in debt, as another article just revealed (today). That isn't surprising. Thailand is one of the slowest-growing ASEAN economies. You have no idea what you're talking about. The only reason you know Western economies are in debt is because they're honest about they're economic straits.

You are clearly an economic mastermind. The global economy was not created by the US, it is by definition based on the economies of all nations... Yes, the US have created much of the damage to it, the current climate of debt and the vast overspending of their population is indicative of the problems faced by the global economy as a whole.

As to the honesty of US economics, you have clearly been asleep for a few decades...

Thanks for the correction. The Bretton Woods Conference was clearly masterminded by others. Blah, blah, blah...so who do you hold up as the model for the world's economy? Please enlighten those of us who are so ignorant.

US or UN? I think you are mistaking the global economy and the economic policies set out at the Bretton Woods Conference, which forgive me if I'm wrong, were deliberated by over 40 nations not solely the US...

Sorry it seems you took offense to my original post, labelled me ignorant, then failed to actually respond to anything I'd written... then took further offense when corrected on your terminology.

Blah, blah, blah... has never been the most convincing statement, but I guess suffices when you have nothing worth actually contributing.

[Pib]

If you cannot buy a car in cash than you cannot afford it.

I expect the great majority of cars bought all over the world, to include in western nations, are bought via loan versus cash. I don't think I would classify folks who have bought vehicles via a loan as not being able to afford it; maybe they didn't have a large sum of cash to buy the vehicle outright but most can afford it through cash flow management (i.e., monthly payments). Of course this assumes the amount of money incoming (work/investments) each month exceeds the required outgoing amount (bills).

Edited May 9, 2012 by Pib

[salavan]

One of the reasons has to be too easy credit from the banks and finance houses.

I wonder what sort of checks are in place to assess peoples ability to pay?

As an example I know a Thai guy who worked on our house a few years ago. He earns maybe 12 k bht a month. Recently he bought a brand new pickup on which the payments are nearly 8 k bht per month. He is married and has two kids.

His wife works when she can but I know they are struggling to make ends meet.

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gordon brown must be have thai blood he's got a degree in economics and he managed to run up a debt of 950 billion pounds, and then he expects other people to pay it of, i think thats called loss adjusting in the insurance world

[BigJohnnyBKK]

I expect the great majority of cars bought all over the world, to include in western nations, are bought via loan versus cash. I don't think I would classify folks who have bought vehicles via a loan as not being able to afford it; maybe they didn't have a large sum of cash to buy the vehicle outright but most can afford it through cash flow management (i.e., monthly payments). Of course this assumes the amount of money incoming (work/investments) each month exceeds the required outgoing amount (bills).

Most people buying cars can't actually afford them, but pernicious advertising and keep-up-with-the-Jones' false cultural status brainwashing dupes them into accessing the easy credit made available by the industry. Your "cash flow" argument is bogus for 99% of the population - if anyone gets a higher ROI on their cash than they'd pay out on a consumer loan I'd really like to find out how. And the 1% that might meet your example probably will be smart and pay cash.

The so-called "asset" often depreciates faster than the loan gets paid off, and by the time all's said and done the consumer has paid far more per km driven than if he'd limited himself to a car he could afford to pay cash for.

We need to design our communities so private cars become unnecessary anyway, they are very harmful to society and the planet and completely unsustainable long-term as the rest of the world catches up to those that developed first.

Not to mention the consequences of our continuing to rely on fossil fuels.

[Woodcaulk]

This augers well for the sexpats as more families will dump their daughters and wives in pattaya and Hua Hin in the hope of landing an old generous farang.

Anyone been to Pattaya lately ? Amazing place and very busy with old farangs.

What do you mean by "old"?.....Seems to me that concerning the situation as you see it, "old" is particularly "all relevant"....relevant as in, the more daughters and wives out hoping to land an "old" generous farang, the younger these "old" farangs will appear...so theoretically it does auger well for the "old" generous farang wishing to dip his staff into the eternal fountain of youth

[Ferangled]

If you cannot buy a car in cash than you cannot afford it.

I expect the great majority of cars bought all over the world, to include in western nations, are bought via loan versus cash. I don't think I would classify folks who have bought vehicles via a loan as not being able to afford it; maybe they didn't have a large sum of cash to buy the vehicle outright but most can afford it through cash flow management (i.e., monthly payments). Of course this assumes the amount of money incoming (work/investments) each month exceeds the required outgoing amount (bills).

I expect you are correct, most cars are bought on credit and sadly that's the problem; common perception is what we can "afford" equals what we can "afford to borrow".

The point being that if you could actually afford it you wouldn't need to borrow the money! It's totally down to the interpretation but this is a good indication of how desensitized we have become to borrowing, it's seen as normal, especially for high ticket items...

For example, if asked if you could afford to buy me drink, but you only had 5 baht in your pocket at the time, you would probably say no but if you were asked if you could afford to buy a new car, you would probably reason that you could, albeit by borrowing the money...

In my opinion it's a slippery slope... I wonder how many people actually have savings these days? I'm going to digress here but earlier I made reference to my old Grandpa and the sage words this WW2 vet had for me on the subject of borrowing, I think only fair I present his current circumstances....

Having worked hard his entire life, paid cash for his cars, his house, his holidays, he managed to accrue a nice nest egg of savings. My Grandma fell ill a few years back and was taken into a nursing home while my Grandpa's savings were emptied to pay for her care. The local council are now selling his house from under him. My Grandma shares her home with entirely state funded patients, whose families couldn't "afford" to pay for their care.... but seem to be able to afford to drive BMWs to visit them.

So in hindsight we're probably all better off doing <deleted> all constructive, saving nothing, borrowing as much as we can and living like a bunch of miscreants... buy a house? Why bother, by the time you pay off your mortgage the state will probably take it to pay for your care in your old age!

[apetley]

One of the reasons has to be too easy credit from the banks and finance houses.

I wonder what sort of checks are in place to assess peoples ability to pay?

As an example I know a Thai guy who worked on our house a few years ago. He earns maybe 12 k bht a month. Recently he bought a brand new pickup on which the payments are nearly 8 k bht per month. He is married and has two kids.

His wife works when she can but I know they are struggling to make ends meet.

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gordon brown must be have thai blood he's got a degree in economics and he managed to run up a debt of 950 billion pounds, and then he expects other people to pay it of, i think thats called loss adjusting in the insurance world

Just goes to show that even incompetent <deleted> can get a degree somewhere.

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[bigbamboo]

Unless the term debt is defined, this report means nothing.

A mortgage is debt.

A credit card purchase is a debt.

A vehicle lease is a debt.

However, if one is current on the mortgage and lease payments, and pays off the credit cad bill every month, is this person to be scolded for carrying debt?

In today's world, most people cannot afford a home unless they take on debt, i.e. a mortgage.

Exactly.

The only way to define debt is to take a balance sheet with your assets and liabilities and see how they stack up.

[Buchholz]

Thais would have to be among the most irresponsible people in the world regarding money.

When was the last time anyone saw a Thai with a cheque book ? Can you imagine banks giving Thai's a cheque account ?

Probably 99% of cheques would bounce in Thailand.

The never stop gambling. Not unusual for a Thai to lose 15-20,000b in a night of cards.

Loan sharks both Thai and Indian charging 20% per day or 20% per month depending on the amount. Police involved in this scam as well.

Most homicides and suicides can be put down to gambling problems.

This augers well for the sexpats as more families will dump their daughters and wives in pattaya and Hua Hin in the hope of landing an old generous farang.

Anyone been to Pattaya lately ? Amazing place and very busy with old farangs.

<deleted> is this nonsense?

It does seem a bit scrambled.

.

[Unkomoncents]

"Thais would have to be among the most irresponsible people in the world regarding money."

Personally I would have thought that title should be reserved for the US http://www.usdebtclock.org/

No other country even comes close...

Generally a bit of a non story, figures are dubious in the extreme - 15 million families surveyed? That's stretching the imagination somewhat!

Most Thais I know actually live to their means much better than their western counterparts, who are so accustomed to life in debt it's seen as normal... mortgage, car loan, credit cards, overdraft, store cards etc. You're seen as the exception to the rule if you're not in debt.

Yep. No other country comes close. And no other country created the global economy. By the way, most Thais are in debt, as another article just revealed (today). That isn't surprising. Thailand is one of the slowest-growing ASEAN economies. You have no idea what you're talking about. The only reason you know Western economies are in debt is because they're honest about they're economic straits.

You are clearly an economic mastermind. The global economy was not created by the US, it is by definition based on the economies of all nations... Yes, the US have created much of the damage to it, the current climate of debt and the vast overspending of their population is indicative of the problems faced by the global economy as a whole.

As to the honesty of US economics, you have clearly been asleep for a few decades...

I don't know why I'm still doing this, as this is just basic world history but anyways...The United Nations is the brainchild of US President Woodrow Wilson, who proposed with the 14 Points, after World War I, that a League of Nations be created. The League failed to prevent another world war because the United States refused to be a League of Nations signatory. After World War II, it became essential that the United States lead the creation of a United Nations with a Security Council that could actually enforce UN dictates. The United States was the principal architect of the results of the Bretton Woods Conference (which was held in the US). The United States is the world's largest economy and it still leads the World Bank in cooperation with European heads of the IMF. The United States helped Europe out of the post-World War II era and went on to challenge the Soviet Union as the champion of the capitalist system (regardless of how exploitative it is, it is THE world's economic system). The United States built the global economy, with Europe. The rest of the world is full of players. This is a fact. The Meiji restoration and the Self-Strengthening movements in Japan and China, respectively, were the fundamental adoption of the US and Europe's economic policies. The current economic and political order is perpetuated by the United States and its military, which acts at the behest of NATO, etc.

[Pib]

I expect the great majority of cars bought all over the world, to include in western nations, are bought via loan versus cash. I don't think I would classify folks who have bought vehicles via a loan as not being able to afford it; maybe they didn't have a large sum of cash to buy the vehicle outright but most can afford it through cash flow management (i.e., monthly payments). Of course this assumes the amount of money incoming (work/investments) each month exceeds the required outgoing amount (bills).

Most people buying cars can't actually afford them, but pernicious advertising and keep-up-with-the-Jones' false cultural status brainwashing dupes them into accessing the easy credit made available by the industry. Your "cash flow" argument is bogus for 99% of the population - if anyone gets a higher ROI on their cash than they'd pay out on a consumer loan I'd really like to find out how. And the 1% that might meet your example probably will be smart and pay cash.

The so-called "asset" often depreciates faster than the loan gets paid off, and by the time all's said and done the consumer has paid far more per km driven than if he'd limited himself to a car he could afford to pay cash for.

We need to design our communities so private cars become unnecessary anyway, they are very harmful to society and the planet and completely unsustainable long-term as the rest of the world catches up to those that developed first.

Not to mention the consequences of our continuing to rely on fossil fuels.

I feel like hugging a tree right now if I could find one. Maybe I should take out a loan and buy one.

[ratcatcher]

I expect the great majority of cars bought all over the world, to include in western nations, are bought via loan versus cash. I don't think I would classify folks who have bought vehicles via a loan as not being able to afford it; maybe they didn't have a large sum of cash to buy the vehicle outright but most can afford it through cash flow management (i.e., monthly payments). Of course this assumes the amount of money incoming (work/investments) each month exceeds the required outgoing amount (bills).

Most people buying cars can't actually afford them, but pernicious advertising and keep-up-with-the-Jones' false cultural status brainwashing dupes them into accessing the easy credit made available by the industry. Your "cash flow" argument is bogus for 99% of the population - if anyone gets a higher ROI on their cash than they'd pay out on a consumer loan I'd really like to find out how. And the 1% that might meet your example probably will be smart and pay cash.

The so-called "asset" often depreciates faster than the loan gets paid off, and by the time all's said and done the consumer has paid far more per km driven than if he'd limited himself to a car he could afford to pay cash for.

We need to design our communities so private cars become unnecessary anyway, they are very harmful to society and the planet and completely unsustainable long-term as the rest of the world catches up to those that developed first.

Not to mention the consequences of our continuing to rely on fossil fuels.

I feel like hugging a tree right now if I could find one. Maybe I should take out a loan and buy one.

Better hurry, they're going fast.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

The only way to define debt is to take a balance sheet with your assets and liabilities and see how they stack up.

Actually, being in debt is being in debt, and I'm sure that's the meaning used in this survey. Traditionally, savvy Asians try to avoid any debt at all, and many traditional Germanic people are taught the same thing, it's a source of shame.

What you're talking about is net worth. In the US, the percentage of households with a negative net worth has gone from below 2% to currently nearly a quarter.

[ralphlsasser]

What a useless survey...people carrying a debt load is common across the world....with home mortgages, car loans, credit cards,etc., being where the great majority of the debt load is carried...all of this debt load supposedly providing a better quality of life.

To say it again, what a useless survey. But I guess it creates a job for some folks and gives newspapers writers something to plagiarize...and something for folks to comment on. That reminds me, did I pay my credit card bill for this month yet?

Seriously, are you that stupid or do you keep your eyes and ears closed all the time? Many don't even have a job and they buy, not second hand vehicles because that wouldn't be good enough, but NEW vehicles. As I said in my post, keeping face and getting drunk is all that matters. Wake up from your dream world.

[ralphlsasser]

"Thais would have to be among the most irresponsible people in the world regarding money."

Personally I would have thought that title should be reserved for the US http://www.usdebtclock.org/

No other country even comes close...

Generally a bit of a non story, figures are dubious in the extreme - 15 million families surveyed? That's stretching the imagination somewhat!

Most Thais I know actually live to their means much better than their western counterparts, who are so accustomed to life in debt it's seen as normal... mortgage, car loan, credit cards, overdraft, store cards etc. You're seen as the exception to the rule if you're not in debt.

What you fail to realize is WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT THE US.

[Colin Yai]

Vast amount of families live on credit, let's face it you cannot have mobiles(4 to a family) motorbikes -tele -stereo -whitening creams -dogs -Farm tuk tuk -fireworks -etc and live off a daily farm wage, but they do.

The house deeds are the main way to get money from the bank. BUT look at their houses once built very rare do they paint-maintain-garden-wall or fence off, any repairs are done=or bodged. Kids are running around without trousers, bare foot and snotty nosed. Dad has his lao khao. mam does her gambling, 1000 bht cocks for fighting are next to the house. I DID SAY NOT ALL Thai. What do you expect, then the P.M. says price rises --no way. They are all their lives living a lie.

Hmmm , harsh words, but in many cases quite correct ,of course I can only write of my little village here in Buriram Province but my wife assures me that the whole village is in debt up to their necks, why such deep debt when many are living in "houses" you would be prosecuted for keeping Chickens in in the UK ,the only word I can bring to mind is "GRINDING POVERTY" truly amazing Thailand.

[Colin Yai]

What a useless survey...people carrying a debt load is common across the world....with home mortgages, car loans, credit cards,etc., being where the great majority of the debt load is carried...all of this debt load supposedly providing a better quality of life.

To say it again, what a useless survey. But I guess it creates a job for some folks and gives newspapers writers something to plagiarize...and something for folks to comment on. That reminds me, did I pay my credit card bill for this month yet?

Seriously, are you that stupid or do you keep your eyes and ears closed all the time? Many don't even have a job and they buy, not second hand vehicles because that wouldn't be good enough, but NEW vehicles. As I said in my post, keeping face and getting drunk is all that matters. Wake up from your dream world.

Pamela Geller said that "the truth is the new hate speech " she was of course referring to Islam , but maybe that is applicable here in Thailand too , were writing it as you see it is frowned upon and dismissed out of hand as some sort of "Racism" .there is definatly a problem with the Thai "mindset" as far as debt and responsibility goes, but writing that it does not exist only compounds the problem even more!.(IMHO) Edited May 9, 2012 by Colin Yai

[JurgenG]

How often do we need to repeat there is no problem with the Thai "mindset", it all depends where you live, actually with who you live.

Even in the Isan village where I go regularly people are ok but I notice that the foreigners who marry local girls tend to marry the girls from the most dysfunctional families. So most of the post here are like reporting about the life in the U.S. from a trailer park.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

What you fail to realize is WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT THE US.

People are talking about the Thai's tendency to get into debt to fund consumer purchases as if that's an especially Thai problem.

Pointing out that western countries have gotten themselves into much more significant trouble through exactly the same bad habit **is** IMO relevant to balance that POV. It's not "US bashing" or "Thai bashing" it's pointing out realities.