School Refuses To Pay For Maternity Leave......

[rb28]

Good morning everybody.

My girlfriend is almost 8 months pregnant. She is from the Philippines, has a degree in education and is fully legal (with a WP). She has been at the school (i won't name it just yet, but it is a well-known school with many branches) for 2 years now. The principal just informed her, and one other pregnant teacher, that they will be granted 30 days with no pay.

Now, as per the Thai law, those seeking maternity leave are entitled to 90 days, 45 days with pay. I presume this goes for every nationality and not just Thais?

I would greatly appreciate any help from those more knowledgeable in the subject than myself.

***On a side note, the school have been taking 1,000 baht per month from her salary (and everyone else's) and claiming it is "bond money". It is not stipulated in the contract that they do this. 2 other employees have left their contracts (not quit, the contract ran out) but the school refused to pay them this money (a total of 24,000 baht which is a fantastic sum considering they earn only around 16,000 per month) This is unethical and immoral as far as i am concerned, but with nothing being written in the contract i don't think there is much anyone can do. Again, any help or advice is most welcome.

Have a great day guys and gals.

[Scott]

You have an interesting situation. I know of other schools that do the very same thing. The Thai Labor laws apply to all equally. There are some differences with regard to certain benefits that are covered under the Private School act, but I have never seen anything that exempts maternity leave.

The key to answering your question probably lies with the Thai Teachers. If they are entitled to paid maternity leave then your girlfriend should be as well.

The difficulty with situations like this one is that very, very few people are going to contest the school's policy. Doing so would likely be the end of her employment and most new parents can't really afford to be unemployed--especially if they are dependent on a visa and work permit from the employer.

[engrin]

take them to court. Good luck!

[rb28]

You have an interesting situation. I know of other schools that do the very same thing. The Thai Labor laws apply to all equally. There are some differences with regard to certain benefits that are covered under the Private School act, but I have never seen anything that exempts maternity leave.

The key to answering your question probably lies with the Thai Teachers. If they are entitled to paid maternity leave then your girlfriend should be as well.

The difficulty with situations like this one is that very, very few people are going to contest the school's policy. Doing so would likely be the end of her employment and most new parents can't really afford to be unemployed--especially if they are dependent on a visa and work permit from the employer.

Thank you for the response Scott.

Recently, Thai employees have been granted paid maternity leave, but the principal still refuses to grant the Filipino employees this same courtesy. In my view this is scandalous although i am perplexed as to what stance to take. I make enough money financially to support us both, and the money in question is not an overwhelming amount, however i am a man of principals and don't want to allow this school to continue treating it's employees like this.

The next question: Is it worth pursuing lawyers even with this obvious breach of their own labour laws? Will it end up costing thrice the amount of the initial money in question? If anyone has any advice please don't hesitate.

Thanks again

[Scott]

Your dilemma is the one that is faced by a great number of foreign teachers, so yes, you would be doing a lot of people a great favor by pursuing the issue. Your decision, however, needs to be based on what is best for you and your family.

I would check with a reputable attorney or law firm that is knowledgeable or specializes in labor cases. The consultation may be worth the time and effort to find out if there is anything that would exempt her from the law.

[rb28]

Lawyers have been contacted, they say they can help. I'll keep everyone posted if i do take this to court

[Loaded]

Have you tried going to your local labour office? They can be very helpful and will clarify the law for you. They will also contact your girlfriend's employer and pressure them to comply with labour law. If they don't, they will prosecute them.

Thai lawyers will always say they can help you. That's how they earn their money.

Edited May 17, 2012 by Loaded

[Scott]

Loaded is correct. I've not had any dealings with the MOL, but the word is that they are quite helpful.

[rb28]

Thanks again everyone. I will certainly contact the local labour office now.

I must admit i am fairly cynical about using the lawyers, as i expect it to be an endless amount of "consulting" for exuberant sums with very little actually being achieved. I am also well aware, that the particular school in question will have a seemingly endless amount of funding compared to myself. Money talks in the good old LOS.

[mike123ca]

As the Op said, his girlfriend is not Thai, so its very easy to take advantage of the situation. She probably could win her case at the labour board, but it's very possible that the future work environment could take a turn for the worst. If she is on a "B-visa" then the school has a little bit more extra leverage to make life uncomfortable. I would start looking for a new job.

[Berkshire]

As the Op said, his girlfriend is not Thai, so its very easy to take advantage of the situation. She probably could win her case at the labour board, but it's very possible that the future work environment could take a turn for the worst. If she is on a "B-visa" then the school has a little bit more extra leverage to make life uncomfortable. I would start looking for a new job.

I would agree with this. It's very risky filing a claim or even just complaining about an employer to outsiders. Unless your wife plans on leaving the school permanently. You should consider the possible ramifications and ask yourself, is it worth it in the long run? Or put it another way, does your wife like her job?

[madjbs]

Take them to court and make them pay for what they are doing wrong.

[sirchai]

I remember an American who'd lost his job. But he went to the city hall, there must be an office for employee's problems, who even support you(her) with a free lawyer.

I forgot the name that place is called. Hope anybody out there knows more about it. It's mostly in favor for employees.

But even if she'd win the case, she might not have a job anymore.

Good luck!

Edited May 17, 2012 by sirchai

[paully]

" ***On a side note, the school have been taking 1,000 baht per month from her salary (and everyone else's) and claiming it is "bond money". It is not stipulated in the contract that they do this. 2 other employees have left their contracts (not quit, the contract ran out) but the school refused to pay them this money (a total of 24,000 baht which is a fantastic sum considering they earn only around 16,000 per month) This is unethical and immoral as far as i am concerned, but with nothing being written in the contract i don't think there is much anyone can do. Again, any help or advice is most welcome."

This does happen, but it is not strictly legal to do this unless the right for the employer to deduct from her earnings is set out in her employment contract.

The short answer, I'm afraid (not so easy for her as a non-native speaker) is to find another job with a better school.

[Scott]

My suggestion would be to make a visit to the MOL and discuss the situation with them. Since you are not married, she cannot go under you non-immigrant visa, which is a further complication. She can, however, have her visa extended because she is not 'fit to travel' and a doctor will give that in writing to the immigration.

It's very likely that she will not be welcomed back at the school. The school may have endless money, but what they will not want to risk is losing face--and of that I am pretty sure. I've seen/heard of schools caving when they had a strong case, simply because they didn't want negative publicity.

What the school--and others will be--is scared of losing a case with the MOL. They can pay your girl friends maternity leave without ever getting a 'ruling'. She will have to act very grateful for their 'generosity', she will have to continue working, but may wish to continue after her contract ends.

The 'bond' issue is a little different and I would completely drop any discussion about that with either the MOL or an attorney. It will only confuse the issue at hand which is her maternity leave. If she is terminated or her contract is not renewed, then take that issue one.

PS: One of the strategies they will use is to offer to pay a part--maybe 1/2 of the 30 days. It's a Thai thing to negotiate. Most people will take what they can get, even if they deserve more.

Edited May 17, 2012 by Scott

[sirchai]

" ***On a side note, the school have been taking 1,000 baht per month from her salary (and everyone else's) and claiming it is "bond money". It is not stipulated in the contract that they do this. 2 other employees have left their contracts (not quit, the contract ran out) but the school refused to pay them this money (a total of 24,000 baht which is a fantastic sum considering they earn only around 16,000 per month) This is unethical and immoral as far as i am concerned, but with nothing being written in the contract i don't think there is much anyone can do. Again, any help or advice is most welcome."

This does happen, but it is not strictly legal to do this unless the right for the employer to deduct from her earnings is set out in her employment contract.

The short answer, I'm afraid (not so easy for her as a non-native speaker) is to find another job with a better school.

I had an interview at a private school about a year ago. All went well, small classes, air conditioned. When they phoned me to come and sign my contract I was really speechless.

They wanted me to pay 2,000 baht/ monthly for 10 moons into a "teachers' fund." Covering hours for teachers being absent without getting paid, 2 sick leave days, being longer absent, no salary.

Asking for permission to leave campus, wearing a boy scout uniform, teaching science to Kindergarten, Prathom 4 EP, Prathom 6 EP, but also ordinary program, loads of unpaid weekend activities and a lot of other nonsense.

I already knew that none of them working there before had ever got their "teachers' fund" money back. I was trying to get a contract to show it to my wife, actually I wanted to post it on this forum, but no chance.

Can't write the name of the institution for understandable reasons, but think of the opposite of NO.

I was in the position that I had and still have a job, couldn't believe that people really sign those contracts......

Edited May 17, 2012 by sirchai

[BigJohnnyBKK]

Be very careful to know what you're doing before you let the school know anything is afoot.

Many labour laws specifically don't apply to teachers at private schools, eg severance pay.

They're supposed to be handled by the M of Ed, but in fact no one's tested this yet.

If you're in Bangkok the Labour Court just down from Hualumphong has a room full of free labor specialist lawyers that are specifically paid to help employees, and this is the one and only bureaucracy I've come across in 12 years here that works on the side of justice without regard for how rich and powerful the employer might be.

I'm sure the provincial equivalents are the same.

Don't bother signing up with lawyers until you've been down there - some do speak English - and lay out the situation, and chances are if you've got a case they'll fill out and process all the paperwork for you, argue your case if needed all for free.

Usually when the employer gets the notice of court appearance they will then do what the law requires, but if not it takes 6 to 18 months for a court case to get finalized, the judge usually tries to get the parties to agree rather than imposing the solution unilaterally.

In this case of course it will be for back pay, she shouldn't do anything which could justify them firing her.

[mike123ca]

Foreigner's do suffer from the short end of the stick.

Your contract is coming to an end and you discover large deductions being made

to your paycheck. Maybe the promise that you'll be paid on the last day of your contract.

While at the same time, immigration wants you out of the country a.s.a.p.

When I worked in Korea, I saw the same problems occur many times where the school would short the teacher's compensation and hope they will be out of the country making it next to impossible to pursue the issue.

Edited May 20, 2012 by Scott
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[onlycw]

Not sure about 90 days. I had an introduction where the school shared its rules. Maternity leave was less than 90 days, but it was paid !

Someone needs to fight over both issues. That "bond" withholding requires proper documentation and reporting. OTOH, chances are that fighting for rights will lead to getting fired. Can she find another job elsewhere?

A few calls to the MoL should clear this up. please share your findings!

[culicine]

Not sure about 90 days. I had an introduction where the school shared its rules. Maternity leave was less than 90 days, but it was paid !

Someone needs to fight over both issues. That "bond" withholding requires proper documentation and reporting. OTOH, chances are that fighting for rights will lead to getting fired. Can she find another job elsewhere?

A few calls to the MoL should clear this up. please share your findings!

I think everyone would like to know the outcome of this.....too often posters disappear and we are left wondering what happened. It would be a kind of litmus test so we get an idea of our rights here.

[mca]

Loaded is correct. I've not had any dealings with the MOL, but the word is that they are quite helpful.

That would definitely be the first step. When I worked in hospitality the first thing any member of staff who were terminated would do is go to the MOL to claim unfair dismissal. You could almost set your alarm clock waiting for a phone call from the ministry,.