midas Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 i like mcdonalds stock. it survived the last crisis. and much more room for them to grow and it's not like anyone else is using the meat they use, besides maybe dog food companies, so food commodity prices should not be that big of a deal. farang so based on your gastronomic expertise what do you think of this then ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoshiwara Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 That's disgusting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midas Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 (edited) That's disgusting. ''we are what we eat'' Edited May 29, 2012 by midas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midas Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 They are people who are scared and spooked by the markets. With regards to shares, I consider blue chip shares present less risk. Re my property I continue to receive rent through the whole crisis. I don't say that this is the only strategy or 100% risk free. Business is built on risk. What the gold bugs have discovered is that holding gold is not a risk-free activity. It is volatile. What I want is an income. Sticking all one's wealth in a supposedly risk-free placement on something which produces no business activity (jewellery?) other than digging it up and then hiding it. As I said before I have no problem with gold traders or even gold miners, but just sitting on one's worldly goods in the form of gold coins? I don't think so. I get income which I can spend. You look at your bag of coins and worry about the future. erm ....... what about when the directors feed the shareholders a load of old codswallop ? " it had restated its 2011 results to reflect a 3.3 billion euro loss, rather than a 41 million euro profit " http://ca.reuters.com/article/businessNews/idCABRE84R0NK20120528 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
binjalin Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 I had better start off by saying that I thought Lloyd Blankfein made sense in front of Carl Levin who was both boorish and playing to the gallery. I also think that two of George W. Bush's more inspired appointments were those of Ben Bernanke and Hank Paulson. President Obama inherited both. My main objection to gold bugs is that they consider that gold is the only show in town and that gold is the only protection against total collapse. I have absolutely no doubt that there is a debt management problem, particularly in the West. The solution of course is business growth and business activity. Gold makes little or no contribution outside of jewellery and is purely a fear trade. There is no way to assign a use value to it. Oil I understand. it is something useful. So much for my witterings. If I am talking to someone who is a gold trader, even a day trader and that is what he does, fine go for it. He will buy/sell/short/ and trade that asset class. Fascinating stuff as are oil traders or any other commodity. But to be the all-in gold bug 100% devoted to coins because he doesn't trust the markets and making a 100% long bet on total collapse? They live in fear and want to spread that fear around. Misery likes company. For the last 6 months the $USD has been the place to be, you know the $USD which is supposed to be falling apart. The trader can be flexible and react. The gold bug just gets shriller. Maybe in the second half of the year time to re-assess and hedge depending on how one thinks the US election and the expiring Bush tax cuts turn out. The thing is that not only has gold lost 20% in 6 months, but if you add on the dividend or interest you didn't get, that's another 2-4%. So, not much short of a 25% dive. That is volatility however you want to look at it and let's be clear here the gold bugs were advising purchasing gold at $1920. Hell, they say buy 100% of the time and for coins that would have been another premium on top of the $1920. They think that capitalism is going to collapse. I don't. And I want an income. And I am not into numismatics either. one thing that consistently irritates me (and this is not aimed specifically at you as a few posters have said it) is people who say 'Gold has no intrinsic value' its like saying 'nice watches or nice dresses or ART' has no intrinsic value - people have been wearing gold, as a PM, since cavemen and I can't see it changing. Just because you can't eat it, drive it or shoot it doesn't mean it has no value - very Luddite comment. Chieftains, Leaders, Generals and those with cash to splash will always buy Gold for itself as they presumably have enough to eat and put a roof over their head and so 'Maslow style' they are not at the basic 'need' level and so Gold does have an intrinsic value and always will - it has for 1000s of years I don't see that changing in 2012/13! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naam Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 one thing that consistently irritates me (and this is not aimed specifically at you as a few posters have said it) is people who say 'Gold has no intrinsic value' its like saying 'nice watches or nice dresses or ART' has no intrinsic value - people have been wearing gold, as a PM, since cavemen and I can't see it changing. Just because you can't eat it, drive it or shoot it doesn't mean it has no value - very Luddite comment. Chieftains, Leaders, Generals and those with cash to splash will always buy Gold for itself as they presumably have enough to eat and put a roof over their head and so 'Maslow style' they are not at the basic 'need' level and so Gold does have an intrinsic value and always will - it has for 1000s of years I don't see that changing in 2012/13! please tell me what possesses more intrinsic value -when you are stranded in the middle of a desert... 10 liters of drinking water or 10 ounces of gold? -when a burglar threatens you with a knife... a one kilo gold bar or a loaded gun? -when a fighter pilot is shot down... 25 Krüger Rands in his pocket or a parachute? intrinsic value of anything is not static but fluctuates wildly depending on prevailing circumstances. period! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
churchill Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 (edited) one thing that consistently irritates me (and this is not aimed specifically at you as a few posters have said it) is people who say 'Gold has no intrinsic value' its like saying 'nice watches or nice dresses or ART' has no intrinsic value - people have been wearing gold, as a PM, since cavemen and I can't see it changing. Just because you can't eat it, drive it or shoot it doesn't mean it has no value - very Luddite comment. Chieftains, Leaders, Generals and those with cash to splash will always buy Gold for itself as they presumably have enough to eat and put a roof over their head and so 'Maslow style' they are not at the basic 'need' level and so Gold does have an intrinsic value and always will - it has for 1000s of years I don't see that changing in 2012/13! please tell me what possesses more intrinsic value -when you are stranded in the middle of a desert... 10 liters of drinking water or 10 ounces of gold? -when a burglar threatens you with a knife... a one kilo gold bar or a loaded gun? -when a fighter pilot is shot down... 25 Krüger Rands in his pocket or a parachute? intrinsic value of anything is not static but fluctuates wildly depending on prevailing circumstances. period! In the middle of a desert 10 litres of water is not going to get you very far .. at least with gold one stands a chance of bartering a lift and water Burglar with a knife .. give him the gold .. at least you survive .. Loaded gun crazy Fighter pilot shot down ..Parachute ... you win .. Edited May 30, 2012 by churchill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoshiwara Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 (edited) one thing that consistently irritates me (and this is not aimed specifically at you as a few posters have said it) is people who say 'Gold has no intrinsic value' its like saying 'nice watches or nice dresses or ART' has no intrinsic value - people have been wearing gold, as a PM, since cavemen and I can't see it changing. Just because you can't eat it, drive it or shoot it doesn't mean it has no value - very Luddite comment. Chieftains, Leaders, Generals and those with cash to splash will always buy Gold for itself as they presumably have enough to eat and put a roof over their head and so 'Maslow style' they are not at the basic 'need' level and so Gold does have an intrinsic value and always will - it has for 1000s of years I don't see that changing in 2012/13! please tell me what possesses more intrinsic value -when you are stranded in the middle of a desert... 10 liters of drinking water or 10 ounces of gold? -when a burglar threatens you with a knife... a one kilo gold bar or a loaded gun? -when a fighter pilot is shot down... 25 Krüger Rands in his pocket or a parachute? intrinsic value of anything is not static but fluctuates wildly depending on prevailing circumstances. period! In the middle of a desert 10 litres of water is not going to get you very far .. at least with gold one stands a chance of bartering a lift and water Burglar with a knife .. give him the gold .. at least you survive .. Loaded gun crazy Fighter pilot shot down ..Parachute ... you win .. During the Libyan Civil War, Gaddafi was well prepared. He had insisted on being paid for oil sales not only with gold, but little bits of gold. He was the man with the gold. The little bits (rather than bars) were to pay for the armed troops. He knew that without troops the gold was not much use. As it turned out the gold didn't quite do the trick. He was killed but not before being buggered with a rifle. For those end of the world merchants predicting a Mad Max future, trade will (in the new movie) take the form of a Miami Vice drug trade. Think you can be anonymous? Edited May 30, 2012 by yoshiwara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
churchill Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 ' For those end of the world merchants predicting a Mad Max future' Do you think there any here ?? Who ......where , when .. I think most here just want to work out the best solutions and protect their assets ..Buying gold is part of that protection .. Can you trust the politicians in power today ...with their lame promises ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
binjalin Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 -when you are stranded in the middle of a desert... 10 liters of drinking water or 10 ounces of gold? well you would need someone to have built the well and when you reach the nearest town I think gold might come in handy -when a burglar threatens you with a knife... a one kilo gold bar or a loaded gun? Sometimes trying to fend off a burglar with a gun might get you dead - giving up a coin of gold might save your life! -when a fighter pilot is shot down... 25 Krüger Rands in his pocket or a parachute? when he landed he would need food and water and need to buy a way out, maybe by hiring a boat or bribing local officials, gold might be helpful : This is a futile exercise as I already demonstrated that 'lower order needs' (as outlined by Maslow) would be met first and this INCLUDES parachutes, water when thirsty but maybe not loaded guns gold is an adornment and will always be sought by the better off (i.e. those not in IMMEDIATE need of parachutes and water). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naam Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 a futile exercise... ...is to convince rational thinking people that gold has intrinsic value because it is used as an adornment well you would need someone to have built the well and when you reach the nearest town I think gold might come in handy a most intelligent suggestion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naam Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 In the middle of a desert 10 litres of water is not going to get you very far .. at least with gold one stands a chance of bartering a lift and water because of the many baht buses which cruise around in the middle of a desert? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naam Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 my dogs are asking why i participate in kindergarten discussions when its time to go for an early evening walk with ample opportunities to pee at some garbage cans in the neighbourhood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
churchill Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 my dogs are asking why i participate in kindergarten discussions when its time to go for an early evening walk with ample opportunities to pee at some garbage cans in the neighbourhood. You started it and you can pee wherever you want Naam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoshiwara Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 I had better start off by saying that I thought Lloyd Blankfein made sense in front of Carl Levin who was both boorish and playing to the gallery. I also think that two of George W. Bush's more inspired appointments were those of Ben Bernanke and Hank Paulson. President Obama inherited both. My main objection to gold bugs is that they consider that gold is the only show in town and that gold is the only protection against total collapse. I have absolutely no doubt that there is a debt management problem, particularly in the West. The solution of course is business growth and business activity. Gold makes little or no contribution outside of jewellery and is purely a fear trade. There is no way to assign a use value to it. Oil I understand. it is something useful. So much for my witterings. If I am talking to someone who is a gold trader, even a day trader and that is what he does, fine go for it. He will buy/sell/short/ and trade that asset class. Fascinating stuff as are oil traders or any other commodity. But to be the all-in gold bug 100% devoted to coins because he doesn't trust the markets and making a 100% long bet on total collapse? They live in fear and want to spread that fear around. Misery likes company. For the last 6 months the $USD has been the place to be, you know the $USD which is supposed to be falling apart. The trader can be flexible and react. The gold bug just gets shriller. Maybe in the second half of the year time to re-assess and hedge depending on how one thinks the US election and the expiring Bush tax cuts turn out. The thing is that not only has gold lost 20% in 6 months, but if you add on the dividend or interest you didn't get, that's another 2-4%. So, not much short of a 25% dive. That is volatility however you want to look at it and let's be clear here the gold bugs were advising purchasing gold at $1920. Hell, they say buy 100% of the time and for coins that would have been another premium on top of the $1920. They think that capitalism is going to collapse. I don't. And I want an income. And I am not into numismatics either. one thing that consistently irritates me (and this is not aimed specifically at you as a few posters have said it) is people who say 'Gold has no intrinsic value' its like saying 'nice watches or nice dresses or ART' has no intrinsic value - people have been wearing gold, as a PM, since cavemen and I can't see it changing. Just because you can't eat it, drive it or shoot it doesn't mean it has no value - very Luddite comment. Chieftains, Leaders, Generals and those with cash to splash will always buy Gold for itself as they presumably have enough to eat and put a roof over their head and so 'Maslow style' they are not at the basic 'need' level and so Gold does have an intrinsic value and always will - it has for 1000s of years I don't see that changing in 2012/13! If the price of gold was driven by its demand as a luxury adornment then the price would be expected to drop in periods of economic contraction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayman Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 (edited) -when a fighter pilot is shot down... 25 Krüger Rands in his pocket or a parachute? intrinsic value of anything is not static but fluctuates wildly depending on prevailing circumstances. period! In WWII the US pilots were given gold francs and sovereign that they kept in their boots that if shot down they had something to barter with. Sovereign Gold Coins are recognized worldwide and have been used as "emergency money" for decades. Allied World War II pilots carried British Gold Sovereigns in their survival kits. Even in Desert Storm, American pilots and British SAS troops carried these historic gold coins as their emergency money in case they were downed in Iraqi territory. Genuine Sovereign gold coins are private, portable, and offer you instant liquidity worldwide. Edited May 30, 2012 by Jayman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falang07 Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 I would rather keep some gold than the toilet paper called fiat money at the moment, and especially later on, as the crisis will advance in the more fierce stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midas Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 During the Libyan Civil War, Gaddafi was well prepared. He had insisted on being paid for oil sales not only with gold, but little bits of gold. He was the man with the gold. The little bits (rather than bars) were to pay for the armed troops. He knew that without troops the gold was not much use. As it turned out the gold didn't quite do the trick. He was killed but not before being buggered with a rifle. For those end of the world merchants predicting a Mad Max future, trade will (in the new movie) take the form of a Miami Vice drug trade. Think you can be anonymous? that is the most imaginative conspiracy theory yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoshiwara Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Gold 1545. Next stop 2000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeyserSoze01 Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Gold 1545. Next stop 2000. Much like those that have been predicting gold going to 5000. Liquidity is king today, which is why gold is going down, not up. Gold will not find a floor until the EU mess is straightened out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoshiwara Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Gold 1545. Next stop 2000. Much like those that have been predicting gold going to 5000. Liquidity is king today, which is why gold is going down, not up. Gold will not find a floor until the EU mess is straightened out. Just hit 1535. Going down with the Euro like an ugly marriage. Not in the gold cheerleader script. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayman Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Gold 1545. Next stop 2000. Much like those that have been predicting gold going to 5000. Liquidity is king today, which is why gold is going down, not up. Gold will not find a floor until the EU mess is straightened out. Just hit 1535. Going down with the Euro like an ugly marriage. Not in the gold cheerleader script. Seems to me that you are the only one here trying to state that others think that only gold will go up. Not sure why you keep trying to make that point but that is not what many of the posters here are saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
binjalin Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 I had better start off by saying that I thought Lloyd Blankfein made sense in front of Carl Levin who was both boorish and playing to the gallery. I also think that two of George W. Bush's more inspired appointments were those of Ben Bernanke and Hank Paulson. President Obama inherited both. My main objection to gold bugs is that they consider that gold is the only show in town and that gold is the only protection against total collapse. I have absolutely no doubt that there is a debt management problem, particularly in the West. The solution of course is business growth and business activity. Gold makes little or no contribution outside of jewellery and is purely a fear trade. There is no way to assign a use value to it. Oil I understand. it is something useful. So much for my witterings. If I am talking to someone who is a gold trader, even a day trader and that is what he does, fine go for it. He will buy/sell/short/ and trade that asset class. Fascinating stuff as are oil traders or any other commodity. But to be the all-in gold bug 100% devoted to coins because he doesn't trust the markets and making a 100% long bet on total collapse? They live in fear and want to spread that fear around. Misery likes company. For the last 6 months the $USD has been the place to be, you know the $USD which is supposed to be falling apart. The trader can be flexible and react. The gold bug just gets shriller. Maybe in the second half of the year time to re-assess and hedge depending on how one thinks the US election and the expiring Bush tax cuts turn out. The thing is that not only has gold lost 20% in 6 months, but if you add on the dividend or interest you didn't get, that's another 2-4%. So, not much short of a 25% dive. That is volatility however you want to look at it and let's be clear here the gold bugs were advising purchasing gold at $1920. Hell, they say buy 100% of the time and for coins that would have been another premium on top of the $1920. They think that capitalism is going to collapse. I don't. And I want an income. And I am not into numismatics either. one thing that consistently irritates me (and this is not aimed specifically at you as a few posters have said it) is people who say 'Gold has no intrinsic value' its like saying 'nice watches or nice dresses or ART' has no intrinsic value - people have been wearing gold, as a PM, since cavemen and I can't see it changing. Just because you can't eat it, drive it or shoot it doesn't mean it has no value - very Luddite comment. Chieftains, Leaders, Generals and those with cash to splash will always buy Gold for itself as they presumably have enough to eat and put a roof over their head and so 'Maslow style' they are not at the basic 'need' level and so Gold does have an intrinsic value and always will - it has for 1000s of years I don't see that changing in 2012/13! If the price of gold was driven by its demand as a luxury adornment then the price would be expected to drop in periods of economic contraction. where were you when it was 600? still saying the same? I doubt it... watch and see - you must be a VERY wealthy dude to be so arrogant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayman Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 If the price of gold was driven by its demand as a luxury adornment then the price would be expected to drop in periods of economic contraction. where were you when it was 600? still saying the same? I doubt it... watch and see - you must be a VERY wealthy dude to be so arrogant You will notice quite a bit of arrogance from the "gold has no value" crowd on TV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midas Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 If the price of gold was driven by its demand as a luxury adornment then the price would be expected to drop in periods of economic contraction. where were you when it was 600? still saying the same? I doubt it... watch and see - you must be a VERY wealthy dude to be so arrogant You will notice quite a bit of arrogance from the "gold has no value" crowd on TV. " Arrogance and snobbism live in adjoining rooms and use a common currency." Morley Safer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayman Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Can’t Earn <deleted> On Schatz… By Jamie Coleman || May 30, 2012 at 15:39 GMT || 0 comments || Add comment The yield on the German 2-year bond (refered to as the “Schatz”) has fallen to zero. Nada. Zilch. Bupkis. Germany will, however, return your money in two-years time, so you’ve got that going for you… http://www.forexlive.com/blog/2012/05/30/cant-earn-<deleted>-on-schatz/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoshiwara Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 If the price of gold was driven by its demand as a luxury adornment then the price would be expected to drop in periods of economic contraction. where were you when it was 600? still saying the same? I doubt it... watch and see - you must be a VERY wealthy dude to be so arrogant You will notice quite a bit of arrogance from the "gold has no value" crowd on TV. " Arrogance and snobbism live in adjoining rooms and use a common currency." Morley Safer And that currency would be US Dollars right now. Or Hong Kong Dollars. Just as good. Gold is volatile. Not a place of safety. An asset to be traded. If you buy it be prepared to sell it. Or sit in the Mr Angry room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayman Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 If you buy it be prepared to sell it. Or sit in the Mr Angry room. I would say that the majority of the posters here don't agree with that statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoshiwara Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 (edited) If you buy it be prepared to sell it. Or sit in the Mr Angry room. I would say that the majority of the posters here don't agree with that statement. I must be wrong then Cheer up, its just bounced. Edited May 30, 2012 by yoshiwara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayman Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 If you buy it be prepared to sell it. Or sit in the Mr Angry room. I would say that the majority of the posters here don't agree with that statement. I must be wrong then Cheer up, its just bounced. It seems you assume that every time gold goes up then we throw big parties and every time it drops we sit in a dark corner crying. That's not how it is for most of the buyers of physical gold. In fact, during the time that is it dropping most of the gold lovers I know get very excited cause they can obtain more physical at a lower price. They are not about buying today to sell tomorrow. If you want to trade gold like that then there are much more lucrative ways to do that by trading gold futures. The ones to buy and hold physical metals are holding for a longer term as as a hedge against inflation. This also has the benefit of giving people a more secure feeling as they are holding the asset in their hands and don't have to rely on a bank teller to hold their wealth. It's also quite obvious that most portfolio managers have always recommended keeping from 10-20% of your portfolio in precious metals. Not sure why it's such a big deal when folks express their desire to hold physical metal in their hands. To me it makes me feel much more secure holding gold in my hands than say german bonds that pay 0% 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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