Pimp My Versys

[commande]

Thanks again for all the useful comments.. really helpful.

I hired one out today and zoomed around Pattaya/ Silver Lake/ bang saray.. while its not Chaing mai 118/120 and samoeng loop at least got a good feel for it.

Let me say im just SO DISAPPOINTED...

So disappointed as i havent bloody got one earlier than this.

First impressions... love the very upright seating position . i had done allot of riding on my fazer in CM with folks who drive tall bikes : BMW F650 and F800; and always wondered why they didn't seem to have work the corners... figured it out toady or at least this is my theory.. the taller or higher your center of gravity the more that subtle differnetial foot peg pressure makes a difference.. I can change lanes on the V with just using foot peg pressure.. the lower the centre of gravity the more you have to meld countersteering and peg weighting. Either way agree or disagree with my theory I found i could throw the V around to the point where it was just sheer fun. Of course the fazer is a heavy big bike and probably harder to throw around but believe the upright seating position and manoeuvrability of the V is just excellent

Of course being 193 cm or for those metrically impaired 6'3" high the seat position is just great and excellent visibility as my head is above most car roofs.

Did notice allot of wind buffeting but suspect that is due to the small cosmetic only screen this bike has on. note to self.. order the touring screen

Brakes.. yes they are Ok but are a bit dead in feel so the recommended pads will go in.

Engine.. I had ridden a Ninja 650 before and wasn't impressed with the engine or rather the torque/ power curve.. seemed to be all over the place and not great sweet spot.. in the V they have done a great job of creating a real sweet spot down low.. between 4000 and 6000 revs she pulls like a train even in 5th.. very impressed with responsiveness.

I pulled into the Kawasaki dealer on Sukhumvit Mylton Kawasaki I think and looked at new models. the yellow and black is nice but I think Ill go the black with the gel seat and guards and touring screen... ( Id have to buy a complete new line of outfits if I went with the yellow.. ha)

asked the guy there what was delivery time.. he said 1 hour.... told him with complete deadpan face that he needed to sharpen his service and not make good common place folks like myself wait that long... we both had a chuckle.

Which brings me to the sorepoint about this and its to all of you.... while i thanked your for your input I am indeed quite appalled that none of you didn't earlier on make a better representation of just how good this bike is.

I hope your all ashamed of yourselves... early to bed with the lot of you.. go on.. no arguments.. off you go.

Didn't place an order with the guy as want to work out best place to buy.. any feedback before you tuck teddy in is permitted...

Please make sure any dealer site you recommend does have a supply of fluffy dice

Fun day...you can just imagine how bored my girlfriend will be tonight... ""honey. and another thing about the bike... her thinking to herself "If he mentions it one more time Ill kill him"

Hi, yes the Versys is a very nice bike, I have one and also live in Pattaya, all the prices should be the same country wide so doesn't matter where you make a new purchase, at least this has been my experience. Very nice to ride on long distances out of town, I don't ride it much in town as my little scooter is just so much easier to drive around town. I would recommend as others have here to replace the following in this specific order -

MOST IMPORTANT **** - GET A GOOD QUALITY HELMET, FULL FACE (Something DOT and THAI approved is what I recommend) - ****

1. Tires (Recommend Pirelli - Scorpion Trails are very nice and last a while, the bike rides so much better with these tires - it is literally night and day.)

2. Brake pads - While the stockers work, you do have to give it a little more effort or squeeze to come to a really quick stop. I still have the factory ones but when it's time for new brakes I will upgrade the pads with new disc.

3. Hand Guards - I have the factory hand guards from Kawasaki, yes they are a little pricey but they are in my opinion worth it. Saved me many times from mirror impacts and baht bus hand guard strikes where I would have broke a finger. They are easy to repair also when a mishap happens.

4. Engine Crash Guards - I have the Motec version, priceless if the bike falls over which it does happen. Better to scratch the crash guards than the engine itself and much cheaper to repair and repaint.

5. Exhaust - I am not a fan of after market exhaust as they are all very loud to me. To each their own, they probably all work the same and might give you a couple horse power although I can't say for sure.

6. Fuel Computer - To each their own, I have had many in the past and didn't really notice anything dramatic but this is my experience, you might have better luck than me.

7. Air Filter - Factory one is actually not that bad, wouldn't recommend replacing it unless you just want to and are prepared to take the fuel tank off the bike.

8. Oil - Factory oil is good for break-in. Semi Synthetic is good for long term and as recommended by other I know, you can switch to full synthetic after about 11k miles. This is after your first major service and takes into consideration that the engine will be well broken in. (A SPECIAL NOT HERE: The book doesn't recommend changing the oil filter at every oil change. I and others highly recommend that you always change the oil filter at every oil change, you will have to request this at the dealer when they change the oil for you as they won't do it unless the book states to.)

Maintenance recommendations -

1. Every 2 tank fills of gas lube the chain with a quality chain lube out of a spray can

2. After 5 tanks of gas, completely clean the chain and relube. I use WD-40 to clean the chain really good and then Motul Chain Lube to oil the chain. Most chain lubes will work just fine. Water is bad for the chain so if it rains a lot and you ride in the rain or wash your bike a lot you might have to lube the chain more often. A good lubed chain, not over lubed, will not make much noise as your driving down the road.

3. Don't use cheap gas. The 91 Benzine and 91 Gasahol work just fine although I use the 95 Gasahol to stave off any pinging. Bike runs great on both, don't put gas out of a bottle from a street vendor in the bike as they sometimes add water to make more money. i have even watched them add rubbing alcohol. Not good...

Edited May 19, 2012 by commande

[commande]

I beg to disagree as this is not how PC Autotuner works

The PC Autotune logs AFR under real world loaded conditions and then suggests a trim to bring the AFR to your specified ratio. It does not change the fuel/ignition maps on its own. This specified ratio can be what ever custom map you enter or a canned map based on variables such as pipe, air filter etc.

It is difficult to imagine any more accurate method than datalogging under actual riding conditions, as opposed to the operator dependent inertia dyno using the test, fiddle, retest, repeat procedure. The PC-V with Autotuner will give you an exact AFR of 13.1 under loaded conditions (specific to your weight) at all RPM and throttle position - what can be more accurate than that?

My personal experience, and from what I have read, suggests that a properly run bike on PC Autotuner is equal to or better than what a good operator can achieve a dyno. This is done at a lower cost, quicker, something that a savy Owner can easily do. Here in CM there is no dyno, and more importantly if there was one, it would need someone who really knows what they are doing.

When you start changing engine internals is where the Autotuner really shines as it is virtually idiotproof.

The Lambda sensor is in fact removed and by-passed so the factory ECU cannot fiddle with the new map, and not because you are running too rich. If it is too rich you have the wrong map and need to go through the Autotune procedure

Does it make a significant amount more power? 7 Hp on a Versys is 10% and IMHO a significant increase. That this is due to the Autouner and PCV alone is questionable, but believable in conjunction with a pipe and air filter/air box mods.

What is not debatable is that one can make the bike run better than the factory as one is not constrained by emissions or noise regulations. On a stock bike the descerning rider will see smoother running and no dead spots in throttle response. On a slightly modified bike it is far more noticable and almost a given when one starts increasing air flow through the engine.

Internal engine mods demand changes to the ECU

Hi, agree with a lot of what you are saying here but consider this. You have no way to measure performance gains so the only thing you have is experience and your butt dyno - both of which are important but they are opinion and not a real measure. The computers can't manage air flow, they only manage fuel, some can even manage the spark firing control, not sure about your particular computer. Fuel maps can not change on the fly while driving, driving conditions such as temperature, humidity, etc can affect how a fuel map is generated. Yes, I agree with you, auto tune is pretty good and maybe as good as a dyno tune in some none racing car/motorcycle applications. BUT, the auto tune feature is not meant to be running all the time you drive your bike, you run it a few times, turn off the bike, make a new map, load it and then drive again to see if you like it. This is good, takes some time and can be fun for some people out there that like to play with things and have an idea of what they are doing.

Lastly, the 10 hp example was only a number and not something actual. There is no telling what the horse power or torque increase is after fitting a computer and creating a fuel map without a dyno to test and measure the results. So again, everything is a butt dyno and mental simulation. This doesn't of course mean that there isn't an increase in performance or drivability, it just means that you can't measure it so you really don't have any idea what the results are with the exception as to how you "feel" things have changed which is relative and not scientific.

Fuel computers are a lot of fun to play with, yes they can deliver some positive results but as I think you have agreed with me already you have to change/add more than just the computer - you need to open the exhaust, open up the airbox, maybe increase or decrease the spark heat range, etc. It's a lot of fun if you have the time and cash to include like to mess with things all the time on your vehicle. Maybe I am to old and have outgrown this type of stuff, I just like to ride my particular bike as it is and not worry about anything needing adjusted due to weather patterns or other changes in environment which is what the factory programming for the fuel injection system is designed for.

Edited May 19, 2012 by commande

[YipYipYa123]

every manufacturer says some bullshit to sell their bikes ..........but in the case of the versys they are not really lying

when they say its "MORE THAN THE SUM OF ITS PARTS " and other similiar stuff ,i think its light years better than the er6n and the ninja 650

i owned before it

i actually thought because its taller and larger it'd be harder to manouver but in fact i think its actually easier ,and the extra height makes it more flickable ,the riding position is great filtering between traffic because you are so high up and great visibilty

i enjoy using mine everywhere ,its not fast in the sense of a r1 or a fireblade but it isnt slow either

there are very very few 4 wheel vehicles that can keep up with it on thai roads ,its very easy to over take traffic and there is plenty of power left to jump from 120-160kmph to get in front of a few vehicles if necessary

when im up on the footpath i dont need to look for a ramp like i would have to do on some other bikes,just drive off the edge and let the suspension do the rest ,it has enough clearance and travel

to soak up sunken manhole covers,roads not joined together properly and dynamite crater potholes

i made some light mods but considering a few more like :

MIRROR EXTENDERS

BIGGER WINDSCREEN

ENGINE CRASH GUARDS

BRIGHTER HEADLAMP LIGHTS ETC

already have a full givi set of boxes but i dont put them on for day to day in the city or i cant slip between traffic like a scooter

From everything ive read on the other forums ,Kawasaki have already squeezed the guts outta this engine and further tuning

gives very minor results for the cash you have to spend so im not going down that route

if i need more power ,il get a versys 1000 or a multistrada , bmw or something was designed from the ground up to have more

the only thing i think is disappointing is the brakes ,a green taxi made very radical lane change yesterday from a traffic jam

into the fast lane and i was doing 120 easy when i slammed on the brakes

thank god it was dry ,i was using nice sticky pirelli tyres and they stopped me short of a crash but a bike of this weight should have larger brakes IMO

[BigBikeBKK]

Thanks again for all the useful comments.. really helpful.

I hired one out today and zoomed around Pattaya/ Silver Lake/ bang saray.. while its not Chaing mai 118/120 and samoeng loop at least got a good feel for it.

Let me say im just SO DISAPPOINTED...

So disappointed as i havent bloody got one earlier than this.

First impressions... love the very upright seating position . i had done allot of riding on my fazer in CM with folks who drive tall bikes : BMW F650 and F800; and always wondered why they didn't seem to have work the corners... figured it out toady or at least this is my theory.. the taller or higher your center of gravity the more that subtle differnetial foot peg pressure makes a difference.. I can change lanes on the V with just using foot peg pressure.. the lower the centre of gravity the more you have to meld countersteering and peg weighting. Either way agree or disagree with my theory I found i could throw the V around to the point where it was just sheer fun. Of course the fazer is a heavy big bike and probably harder to throw around but believe the upright seating position and manoeuvrability of the V is just excellent

Of course being 193 cm or for those metrically impaired 6'3" high the seat position is just great and excellent visibility as my head is above most car roofs.

Did notice allot of wind buffeting but suspect that is due to the small cosmetic only screen this bike has on. note to self.. order the touring screen

Brakes.. yes they are Ok but are a bit dead in feel so the recommended pads will go in.

Engine.. I had ridden a Ninja 650 before and wasn't impressed with the engine or rather the torque/ power curve.. seemed to be all over the place and not great sweet spot.. in the V they have done a great job of creating a real sweet spot down low.. between 4000 and 6000 revs she pulls like a train even in 5th.. very impressed with responsiveness.

I pulled into the Kawasaki dealer on Sukhumvit Mylton Kawasaki I think and looked at new models. the yellow and black is nice but I think Ill go the black with the gel seat and guards and touring screen... ( Id have to buy a complete new line of outfits if I went with the yellow.. ha)

asked the guy there what was delivery time.. he said 1 hour.... told him with complete deadpan face that he needed to sharpen his service and not make good common place folks like myself wait that long... we both had a chuckle.

Which brings me to the sorepoint about this and its to all of you.... while i thanked your for your input I am indeed quite appalled that none of you didn't earlier on make a better representation of just how good this bike is.

I hope your all ashamed of yourselves... early to bed with the lot of you.. go on.. no arguments.. off you go.

Didn't place an order with the guy as want to work out best place to buy.. any feedback before you tuck teddy in is permitted...

Please make sure any dealer site you recommend does have a supply of fluffy dice

Fun day...you can just imagine how bored my girlfriend will be tonight... ""honey. and another thing about the bike... her thinking to herself "If he mentions it one more time Ill kill him"

LOLZ! Great review and spot on! I tried to tell you the Versys is a lot more fun that you might expect, and happy to see that confirmed!

I enjoyed a fantastic little 600km day trip to day on my Versys.

Let the Good Times ROLL!

Tony

[karlos]

Khao Yai again..... Don't blame you, great roads

I was hoping it would rain today so i could join you tomorrow

[BigBikeBKK]

FYI - ALL fuel computers, piggy back especially create more power, although marginally and generally without engine modifications by adding more fuel. This results in a rich fuel mixture that makes your fuel economy go down, sometimes very little, sometimes a lot. It is almost impossible to create a really good fuel map without a dyno because you can't put a real world load on the engine, edit fuel map, retest, view results, make changes again, retest, etc - it's really a interesting science and a lot of people like playing with them; more of a toy in my mind. The auto tune feature works rather well with some models of piggy back computers but it's results are pretty limited, you really need a dyno to create a good fuel map. There are many many performance forums on the internet discussing this topic. Auto tune starts with taking a measurement of your current running then just starts adding fuel, generally right before the engine starts to flood out.

There is a reason you have to remove or bypass the Oxygen Sensor when installing these systems. It is because your running too rich (to much fuel) most of the time and what will happen is the factory computer will start to mess with the spark timing to compensate which generally results in pinging, lower performance, lots of extra fuel use and in most cases destroys the O2 sensor - also can destroy the exhaust over time because the extra fuel that isn't burned on most occasions eats out the exhaust because it is acidic in nature when vaporized, heated and not burned in the combustion process.

Most of these systems, I personally would say all of them produce little results BUT they can be fun to play with and most people will say they do work but can't prove anything. It is more of a seat of the pants power increase thats all in your mind, my opinion anyway. As all the disclaimers say, "results will vary." This is because manufactures of the piggy back computers know that just the piggy back computer alone will make little to no difference in performance. You want more performance you have to do a lot more than change exhaust, air filter and add piggy back computer.

If one really thinks logically about it. If you changed most of these things you might gain 5-7 horse power and that is not at the rear wheel but rather just the crank especially on a motorcycle. That gain will cost you a lot of money and have little impact on performance. You want more performance, you need to overbore the engine, replace the pistons, etc. Nothing replaces displacement with the exception of turbo charging or supercharging in 99% of most cases. Unless you are adding 20hp and 10lbs of torque or more you will notice little to no difference on bigger bikes and pretty much nothing on a car or truck.

Sorry mate, you're wrong about HOW the Autotune works.

The Autotune does NOT make a bike run rich. The only thing an autotune does is RECORD your AFR (air fuel ratios) at different throttle positions and rpms and gears (optional) and even per individual cylinder (optional) and then shows you exactly where your bike is running rich and lean. This is all real time, not on a dyno, so IMO it gives you more accurate data than what you would get on a dyno which is, after all, only a SIMULATION of real world riding.

The PCV software will make fuel map trim RECOMENDATIONS which you can accept, discard or manually change yourself.

Most modern vehicles tend to run lean due to emissions regulations. What's good for mother nature often isn't good for performance. That said, if fuel economy is your primary concern you could use an Autotune to create a map that's even leaner than stock.

Or create a map that's lean at small throttle openings and richer at large throttle positions.

The Autotune uses a WIDE BAND O2 sensor that replaces the stock narrow band sensor.

On the Kawasaki EX650 and KLE 650 a PCV will not give you a big gain in max horsepower. Average gain from PCV is usually only 2-3hp, but it smooths out your power band, gets rid of the flat spot around ~5-6k rpm, and gives you more mid-range torque. Combined with an aftermarket exhaust and airbox modifications one can expect to gain at most 5-6 hp. Not a lot, but not bad, either.

Ride on!

T

Edited May 19, 2012 by BigBikeBKK

[BigBikeBKK]

Khao Yai again..... Don't blame you, great roads

I was hoping it would rain today so i could join you tomorrow

I could be persuaded to go for a ride again tomorrow

A bit damp today and couldn't quite erase the chicken strips

[karlos]

Nearly 14,000km on my rear tyre and you've got thinner strips than me

As for Khao Yai tomorrow....... I can see myself having a long layin after today's fun and games

Sleepy bye bye time now

[NomadJoe]

Also, get a high quality plate flipper. I f'ing love mine. I run red lights with impunity. I am on my second one. The first time, I went cheap and purchased one that cost about $59 and used a solenoid. The problem with it, was that it did not lock down so that it would flip back up when I hit a bump. I replaced it with one made by the Brits and costing over $200. But it uses a servo and is awesome -- very well made. I flip it whenever I am engaging in behaviors that may involve me NOT being identified. It also has a red LED that lets you know when it is flipped. I used an handlebar mounted PMC switch -- much nicer than the one supplied.

LOLZ, that plate flipper thing you've got is hilarious!

Only ever seen that in Cannonball Express

I've never seen anyone but you use one in real life.

That said, for some odd reason I've never had a ticket sent to me in the mail and on the rare occasion when I've gotten caught in a speed trap the fines are always so small that a plate flipper, while a fun conversation piece, hardly seems worth it.

Tony, you definitely need one.

I haven't see this vid of you lately, so time to resurrect it.

[BigBikeBKK]

Also, get a high quality plate flipper. I f'ing love mine. I run red lights with impunity. I am on my second one. The first time, I went cheap and purchased one that cost about $59 and used a solenoid. The problem with it, was that it did not lock down so that it would flip back up when I hit a bump. I replaced it with one made by the Brits and costing over $200. But it uses a servo and is awesome -- very well made. I flip it whenever I am engaging in behaviors that may involve me NOT being identified. It also has a red LED that lets you know when it is flipped. I used an handlebar mounted PMC switch -- much nicer than the one supplied.

LOLZ, that plate flipper thing you've got is hilarious!

Only ever seen that in Cannonball Express

I've never seen anyone but you use one in real life.

That said, for some odd reason I've never had a ticket sent to me in the mail and on the rare occasion when I've gotten caught in a speed trap the fines are always so small that a plate flipper, while a fun conversation piece, hardly seems worth it.

Tony, you definitely need one.

I haven't see this vid of you lately, so time to resurrect it.

Ha ha ha! Classic!

[YipYipYa123]

forgot to add to my list of possible modz :

LOWERING KIT ON THE FOOTPEGS

i read some guys in usa have done this and its really comfortable ,i know it would mean the pegs would scrape the ground earlier during tight cornering

but i dont race on the versys anyway so id rarely need to take a corner so tight id scrape metal on the ground

has anyone done this in thailand yet ? is it a decent improvement for a rider about 6 foot

sometimes i feel i need to stand up on the pegs to stretch my legs so i think the comfort position would be improved if it could be a bit less cramped but

would need some testing ........

[commande]

I digress, the argument about add on fuel management computers is never ending and each has their own experience of which most are not scientifically provable but opinion based.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Thaivisa Connect App

[BigBikeBKK]

forgot to add to my list of possible modz :

LOWERING KIT ON THE FOOTPEGS

i read some guys in usa have done this and its really comfortable ,i know it would mean the pegs would scrape the ground earlier during tight cornering

but i dont race on the versys anyway so id rarely need to take a corner so tight id scrape metal on the ground

has anyone done this in thailand yet ? is it a decent improvement for a rider about 6 foot

sometimes i feel i need to stand up on the pegs to stretch my legs so i think the comfort position would be improved if it could be a bit less cramped but

would need some testing ........

If you don't want to lose cornering clearance you could add a couple inches of foam to the seat and achieve the same effect.

[YipYipYa123]

forgot to add to my list of possible modz :

LOWERING KIT ON THE FOOTPEGS

i read some guys in usa have done this and its really comfortable ,i know it would mean the pegs would scrape the ground earlier during tight cornering

but i dont race on the versys anyway so id rarely need to take a corner so tight id scrape metal on the ground

has anyone done this in thailand yet ? is it a decent improvement for a rider about 6 foot

sometimes i feel i need to stand up on the pegs to stretch my legs so i think the comfort position would be improved if it could be a bit less cramped but

would need some testing ........

If you don't want to lose cornering clearance you could add a couple inches of foam to the seat and achieve the same effect.

i thought about that first but i like to be able to touch the ground with my feet and carrying a passenger through tight unpredictable traffic ,it necessary to put a foot down sometimes when leaning over

some guys in the usa have made great mods i saw on other forums

where could i get mirror extenders ,lower pegs and a roll cage in thailand ?

[BigBikeBKK]

I digress, the argument about add on fuel management computers is never ending and each has their own experience of which most are not scientifically provable but opinion based.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Thaivisa Connect App

Extremely easy to verify results- just put the bike on a dyno.

There are some mobile apps for phones with built in accelerometers that are surprisingly accurate as well.

[commande]

Agreed, this is what I was attempting to say previously.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Thaivisa Connect App

[BigBikeBKK]

Agreed, this is what I was attempting to say previously.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Thaivisa Connect App

That's funny, I thought you said:

the argument about add on fuel management computers is never ending and each has their own experience of which most are not scientifically provable but opinion based.

[commande]

Agreed, this is what I was attempting to say previously.

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Thaivisa Connect App

That's funny, I thought you said:

the argument about add on fuel management computers is never ending and each has their own experience of which most are not scientifically provable but opinion based.

Yes, you proved my point - - most are NOT scientific. Some are because people measure them with a Dyno represented in the video you attached. The point is simple, YES a fuel management computer can improve performance, generally marginally unless other things are done to the engine. The only way to accurately measure them is with a tool other than your butt dyno or "feeling" that something has improved.

You use a Dyno or other factual measuring device or equipment that is "certified" to render accurate results than this is fact and scientific. You don't use such equipment than it's nothing but speculation. I agree with you Tony, I think we are saying the same thing in a different way. I agree also that you probably know more about the add-on fuel management computer than I do given that you own one, but fact is fact and feeling is feeling. We all know that everyone's "feelings" are different which is why as an example there are different choices in after-market exhaust that people "feel" make their bike or car so much faster but in most cases just increase pollution because the catalyst is removed for increased flow not to say you can't gain HP by changing exhaust but it is an extremely marginal increase in the single digits - in most cases.

I will let you have the last word on this - take care and if you find yourself in Pattaya sometime give me a shout, we can go riding sometime. I'm sure you could teach me a few things as I definitely don't know it all.

Edited May 20, 2012 by commande

[commande]

Straight from Power Commander Website; performed on a Versys, not sure year model but little to nothing has changed - as one can see, very little performance increase except in the lower throttle range where Torque matters more than HP which is typical with add-on fuel injection computers; torque gets you going faster from start, not horse power and one can see there is no torque measurement provided which is typical from after market fuel controller providers unless you are going with something like MOTEC or another very high end race computer application because they don't want to show this number because generally it's 0-2 (sometimes nothing) or even in some cases less than factory specs.

Additionally it doesn't state, or maybe I missed something, so feel free to correct me, are any other things that where changed such as exhaust, air filter, spark plugs, etc which would invalidate the computers added performance as a stand alone add-on performance improver. So without this additional information, if something else was changed you won't get the same performance increase. Is this worth approximately 15,000+ baht after import fees and shipping, some would say yes, some would say no.

It's all a matter of what one wants but the fact is this type of performance gain in regards to improved speed or power is minimal at best. Bike or car might idle better or have smoother transition throughout the throttle range BUT that doesn't equate to improved performance in relation to power and it is also in relations to environmental conditions such as atmospheric pressure, air temp, etc.

In some cases you can get more performance by just replacing the exhaust. Than again, if you can't measure it you can't really know how much if any performance you have gained. Sometimes you might add 1-2 HP, sometimes you can get 7-10hp through this type of replacement. In all cases though, the replacement of the exhaust with a so called "performance" exhaust that looks sexy just adds noise which some people like and in all cases unless a catalyst is added or built into the performance exhaust which is very very rare you are adding pollution to the environment.

Edited May 21, 2012 by commande

[Gweiloman]

Heal Tech GIPro. Tells you why you can't find 7th gear.

[monty1412]

Heal Tech GIPro. Tells you why you can't find 7th gear.

not sure I understand this one ?????

[Hog Head]

Straight from Power Commander Website; performed on a Versys, not sure year model but little to nothing has changed - as one can see, very little performance increase except in the lower throttle range where Torque matters more than HP which is typical with add-on fuel injection computers; torque gets you going faster from start, not horse power and one can see there is no torque measurement provided which is typical from after market fuel controller providers unless you are going with something like MOTEC or another very high end race computer application because they don't want to show this number because generally it's 0-2 (sometimes nothing) or even in some cases less than factory specs.

Additionally it doesn't state, or maybe I missed something, so feel free to correct me, are any other things that where changed such as exhaust, air filter, spark plugs, etc which would invalidate the computers added performance as a stand alone add-on performance improver. So without this additional information, if something else was changed you won't get the same performance increase. Is this worth approximately 15,000+ baht after import fees and shipping, some would say yes, some would say no.

It's all a matter of what one wants but the fact is this type of performance gain in regards to improved speed or power is minimal at best. Bike or car might idle better or have smoother transition throughout the throttle range BUT that doesn't equate to improved performance in relation to power and it is also in relations to environmental conditions such as atmospheric pressure, air temp, etc.

I thought this what I said this a week ago:

"What is not debatable is that one can make the bike run better than the factory as one is not constrained by emissions or noise regulations. On a stock bike the descerning rider will see smoother running and no dead spots in throttle response. On a slightly modified bike it is far more noticable and almost a given when one starts increasing air flow through the engine."

Perhaps I need to be a bit clearer

[commande]

Yup, agree with you, I thought the conversation had somehow moved off course to Power improvements.

On another note, if you want smoother throttle response and don't want to change a computer you can install "Piezo Fuel Injectors." They atomize the fuel at a very high level, used in Diesel engines in most vehicles and more manufactures are making the move to install them in gas powered cars due to this very issue. Sometimes they even have the effect of increasing fuel economy. In fact, the 2012 Yamaha Nuovo has this type of injector which is one of the reasons the engine is capable of increased power output, smoother running while cruising, lower emissions, excellent throttle response, etc than the previous 135cc Nouvo that was carburated; the engine in the new Nuovo is 125cc. In a couple years they will probably be the industry standard for all vehicles as the cost of these high tech injectors has gone way way down over the past few years.

Most high end super bikes have been using these injectors for years.

Pretty much a purchase and replace item, reset factory ECU then start driving.

Edited May 22, 2012 by commande

[madjbs]

Straight from Power Commander Website; performed on a Versys, not sure year model but little to nothing has changed - as one can see, very little performance increase except in the lower throttle range where Torque matters more than HP which is typical with add-on fuel injection computers; torque gets you going faster from start, not horse power and one can see there is no torque measurement provided

You are talking as if HP and torque are two completely different things, which is not the case as HP is in fact a function of torque and RPM. At any given RPM, if HP has been improved then so has torque by definition. By saying that a HP increase at low RPMs is irrelevant because it is torque that is important is incorrect, it is very relevant as it means by definition that torque in that low RPM range has also been improved.

[commande]

Straight from Power Commander Website; performed on a Versys, not sure year model but little to nothing has changed - as one can see, very little performance increase except in the lower throttle range where Torque matters more than HP which is typical with add-on fuel injection computers; torque gets you going faster from start, not horse power and one can see there is no torque measurement provided

You are talking as if HP and torque are two completely different things, which is not the case as HP is in fact a function of torque and RPM. At any given RPM, if HP has been improved then so has torque by definition. By saying that a HP increase at low RPMs is irrelevant because it is torque that is important is incorrect, it is very relevant as it means by definition that torque in that low RPM range has also been improved.

They are related but not entirely. I suggest you do some further research as engines can be designed to produce more of each or equal amounts of each, generally the engine is purpose designed for what the application is. Additional torque is harder to create than HP without modification to the engine. Torque wins races, HP gives you the ability to maintain speed at a constant rate (this is an extremely high level definition). You can add HP and your rate of acceleration will marginally improve, you add torque though and your acceleration vastly improves. A car with 300HP and 350lbs of torque all others things considered equal will win the race to the finish line compared to a vehicle running 350HP and 300lbs of torque especially if it's a road race track with turns as the additional torque will push the car or bike out of the corners up to speed faster than the higher HP machine.

Just take a look at Diesel engines, they have in general more torque than HP which is why they are very fast off the line and are good for pulling heavy loaded trailers down the road - but then they run out of steam at higher levels of speed because they don't have the HP to sustain the forward momentum.

Edited May 22, 2012 by commande

[Gweiloman]

Heal Tech GIPro. Tells you why you can't find 7th gear.

not sure I understand this one ?????

Gear indicator since the Versys doesn't have one. I hate it when I'm already in 6th gear and try to upshift one more time

[commande]

Heal Tech GIPro. Tells you why you can't find 7th gear.

not sure I understand this one ?????

Gear indicator since the Versys doesn't have one. I hate it when I'm already in 6th gear and try to upshift one more time

Yea, I agree with this completely. I wish there was a way to swap the gauge display with the 1000cc Versys as it has the appropriate gauge package to include a gear indicator... Anyone want to be the first to attempt this swap, would love to know if it would work but would probably be a very expensive endeavor.

Edited May 22, 2012 by commande

[madjbs]

What you are saying is correct in a practical sense but you don't seem to understand what HP is. You can't "add HP", to increase HP you have to either increase torque or increase the RPM, it is the torque at each RPM which determines what the HP is.

i.e. An engine with low torque must have high RPMs if it has a high peak HP fiqure and an engine with low RPMs must have very high torque if it is to have the same high peak HP figure.

Diesel engines run out of puff not because they don't have high HP but because they are unable to rev high enough (which the HP figure reflects)

HP is not a quantifiable force such as torque, it is the function of torque and time (RPM)

Edited May 22, 2012 by madjbs

[commande]

What you are saying is correct in a practical sense but you don't seem to understand what HP is. You can't "add HP", to increase HP you have to either increase torque or increase the RPM, it is the torque at each RPM which determines what the HP is.

i.e. An engine with low torque must have high RPMs if it has a high peak HP fiqure and an engine with low RPMs must have very high torque if it is to have the same high peak HP figure.

Okay - I digress... You are correct...