Safety Of Electric Shower Units / No Earth In Thailand

[RandomSand]

I'm looking at renting a room.

Today, when looking around someplace, I noticed the electrical outlets had no earth.

I'm concerned if this poses a risk for my PC ( although do have a line-interactive type UPS) ?

Moreover: What about an electric shower unit ?

- Is this a MAJOR hazard & what should I look for to ensure safety?

[cdnvic]

If your building isn't properly grounded I wouldn't use them.

[Crossy]

Your water heater certainly needs a ground to be safe, period!

You should also have an RCD (Safe-T-Cut) to protect you from shock.

Your PC needs a functional ground for the mains filter to work correctly and your UPS needs a ground for its surge protection to work.

No ground in the apartment, find an alternative apartment.

[jmac]

The presence of 3 pin sockets does not mean that grounds are present. They must be tested to be sure.

Good luck finding accommodation with grounds. Usually only available in newish buildings.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

Buildings are very often not properly grounded, and it is **very** rare for the internal apartment circuits to be properly attached to the building ground.

Decent hot water heaters here usually have their own internal safety mechanisms that cuts off if there's a short, but of course TIT, I personally wouldn't trust my life to the purchasing agent of the contractor and have paid out of pocket to re-wire the important areas of most houses I rent here, usually by simply adding known-good circuits and placing outlets where needed. But you have to check the ground yourself no matter how recommended the "electrician" you're working with, unless it's a properly trained one licensed in a developed country.

Substandard wiring generally is the norm here, and the mains supply quality is also very erratic. Solid-state electronics like computers should be running off an continuous online UPS, where the power is drawn off the battery, completely isolating the equipment from mains. Otherwise greatly reduced useful life.

Notebooks run from a power brick should be OK with just a good surge supressor.

[RandomSand]

I'll have to take another look at this place I might rent...

If they HAVE had the sense to wire the shower heater into earth; I'd run a cable from that earthing cable for my computer's grounding.

Problem solved? (of course, for safety, need an RCD on the shower's live and neutral as Crossy noted).

[RandomSand]

Buildings are very often not properly grounded, and it is **very** rare for the internal apartment circuits to be properly attached to the building ground.

Decent hot water heaters here usually have their own internal safety mechanisms that cuts off if there's a short, but of course TIT,... {SNIP}

So in this case; I couldn't tap an earth for my computer which could then go on to develop earth related problems. Moreover; the shitty shower unit is a liability. Reckon I'd dismiss this apartment if no earth exists.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

You should be able to find a reasonable electrician in your neighborhood, say B1000 for a few hours work + materials cost including a little markup.

You'll have a very hard time finding an apartment with proper ground, best bet is to rent a house and have it done yourself.

Or don't worry about it, can't eliminate all risks in life.

Or take cold showers, I haven't had hot water in over a third of my time here, no big deal.

[cdnvic]

One of these testers is a good and cheap way to check for grounding. You should be able to pick one up at any hardware store.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

Is this available here in Thailand? I've always used a normal multimeter - here's a detailed howto.

Note the accompanying wiki article has details about what dangerous conditions this device will not detect, and advocates backing it up with a multimeter or similar.

I would not trust an ordinary Thai electrician to do this properly, most just don't believe in this stuff just as we don't believe in the power of fetus magic - do it yourself.

I've found lots of improper wiring even in class A office buildings on Silom and the fanciest condos.

Obviously these are pretty impossible to rectify, while a cheapo room near the ground floor's pretty cheap and easy, much more likely to get cooperation from the landlord.

But I still advise renting a standalone house for many other reasons as well.

[WilliamCave]

Buildings are very often not properly grounded, and it is **very** rare for the internal apartment circuits to be properly attached to the building ground.

Decent hot water heaters here usually have their own internal safety mechanisms that cuts off if there's a short, but of course TIT, I personally wouldn't trust my life to the purchasing agent of the contractor and have paid out of pocket to re-wire the important areas of most houses I rent here, usually by simply adding known-good circuits and placing outlets where needed. But you have to check the ground yourself no matter how recommended the "electrician" you're working with, unless it's a properly trained one licensed in a developed country.

Substandard wiring generally is the norm here, and the mains supply quality is also very erratic. Solid-state electronics like computers should be running off an continuous online UPS, where the power is drawn off the battery, completely isolating the equipment from mains. Otherwise greatly reduced useful life.

Notebooks run from a power brick should be OK with just a good surge supressor.

[astral]

You can make your own tester.

Just take a lamp and cable and wire the lamp to the live and earth pins of the plug.

If the earth on the socket is connected, the lamp should light.

Moving this to General as it is not really to a search for accommodation.

PS IME very few properties in LOS have earthed sockets

[JeffreyMcCollum]

Your water heater certainly needs a ground to be safe, period!

You should also have an RCD (Safe-T-Cut) to protect you from shock.

Your PC needs a functional ground for the mains filter to work correctly and your UPS needs a ground for its surge protection to work.

No ground in the apartment, find an alternative apartment.

I think you just eleminated 99.8% of the rentals in Thailand

[F1fanatic]

Personally, I always wear rubber flip-flops in the shower - just in case...

No idea whether they would work in view of the amount of water around my feet, but we live in hope !

[cooked]

Many people are electrocuted in Thailand every year. I have seen earthing rods in the stores but no one seemed to know what they were for. I have heard about electricians connecting the earthing cable to PVC pipes or even a wall. Thais find it normal to get a shock now and again off their computer or their fridge.

My brother in law is a qualified electrician and has gone for the Safetycut circuit breaker, which we have also. There are three settings on ours, 5, 15 and 30 mA, we keep it on 5 mA and up to now it has never tripped, an electrician may quite simply switch it to 30 mA if there is a fault somewhere and consider that he has done a good job. There is a test button and I test it now and then.

Life saver!

[WilliamCave]

A newer place should have grounds but sure if you look at the unit your self take of the cover to see if it is grounded.

when i renovated my home i made sure every thing has a ground going back to the breaker pannel and then a heavy copper wire going to a grounding rod out side same as in Canada or other western countries.

all my ACs are on a seperate pannel with there own breakers and grounds

\

[jacnl2000]

And, please keep your youngest children when present away from rooms having electrical outlets build on instead of inside walls of stone or wood at heights too low. Don’t know whether or not addons exist in Thailand for protecting children from being electrically shocked. Not a pleasant thought. What I have experienced thus far now is that electrical outlets build on walls of stone can be torn off and/or broken much more easy than I initially during the design phase of our Thai home realized. Can’t answer the question related to the addons myself because all of our electrical outlets have been positioned at only for our children save heights. I’ve warned my wife and our baby sitters not to switch on the light and fans when corresponding outlets have been broken and openend. Those electrical outlets can also fall on the floor depending upon how cables have been positioned on walls. When cables enter sockets on walls from below then no heights are save. In our Thai home all of the sockets are entered by cables on walls coming from above, so I only need to collect empty broken housings / covers and warn and angry the wife and our baby sitters. Certainly in these matters I stop presenting myself as the most popular and easygoing guy around the Thai house. I miss my wooden shoes. I would smash them as hard as possible to the walls just as my mother did (outside the house) when she was feeling angry… :-) How many pairs I need ? Not too much.

[Asiantravel]

One of these testers is a good and cheap way to check for grounding. You should be able to pick one up at any hardware store.

how do they work?

does one of those three red levers flick up if ground is not working properly ?

Edited May 19, 2012 by Asiantravel

[prefabs]

Personally, I always wear rubber flip-flops in the shower - just in case...

No idea whether they would work in view of the amount of water around my feet, but we live in hope !

As water is a fantastic conductor of electricity and wet rubber is also pretty good, I think it is safe to assume that you would be in serious trouble using flip flops as a method of protection. Maybe there are flip flops which come with a built in Safe-T-Cut, but I never seen them around

[prefabs]

Many people are electrocuted in Thailand every year. I have seen earthing rods in the stores but no one seemed to know what they were for. I have heard about electricians connecting the earthing cable to PVC pipes or even a wall. Thais find it normal to get a shock now and again off their computer or their fridge.

My brother in law is a qualified electrician and has gone for the Safetycut circuit breaker, which we have also. There are three settings on ours, 5, 15 and 30 mA, we keep it on 5 mA and up to now it has never tripped, an electrician may quite simply switch it to 30 mA if there is a fault somewhere and consider that he has done a good job. There is a test button and I test it now and then.

Life saver!

I posted on another forum in TV recently about buying earth rods in stores. If you simply ask for copper ground rods, which go in the ground, you will be met with blank stares. If you ask for something which goes in the ground to make water hot, they will know immediately where to go. Poor things actually think they are for making the water hot, they have not been told that ground rods are for safety reasons

[jacnl2000]

One of these testers is a good and cheap way to check for grounding. You should be able to pick one up at any hardware store.

how do they work?

does one of those three red levers flick up if ground is not working properly ?

The picture above is not sharp enough to read the exact specs.

A simular customer picture exists, presenting following text:

Read instructions before using. 125 Volt, 0.3 W.

(125 Volt does not apply to my area in Thailand)

Open ground (middle yellow)

Open neutral (left yellow)

Open hot (no colors)

Hot/grnd, reverse (left yellow, right red)

Hot/neu, reverse (middle yellow, right red)

Correct (left yellow, middle yellow)

So, 2 of the 3 lights on the left are yellow and the light on the right is red.

Haven’t found the documentation of the manufacturer.

May be inside the box after buying ?

Product Features

· Detects faulty wiring condition in 3-Wire 110-125V AC receptacles.

· Color-coded indicator lights.

· Detects common wiring problems in standard outlets.

Product Description

Simply plug in and view the light pattern on the tester for wiring condition.

Reviews:

“This tester is cheap for a good reason. The product does not have a ground fault button so consider this issue carefully before purchasing.”

“It doesn't claim to have this button for GFCI test. You should have noticed that before you bought the product. It does exactly what it is supposed to do for a ground test, but does not do GFCI test nor does it claim to!”

Would not use this tester myself due to the 125 Volt spec.

I do appreciate the apparently inaccurate answer given thus far otherwise I would not have found the outlet protectors and all the other nice stuff for babies. Maybe somebody else is capable of pointing us to another more suitable tester which is really applicable to our situation in Thailand ? I do know those testers exists but would love to hear an answer of a person who has actually used one. I prefer to read (check) the actual documentation of the manufacturer first because I do not trust the actual contents of Thaivisa on facevalue anymore (no matter how well intended) and current youtube vids available.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

I do appreciate the apparently inaccurate answer given thus far otherwise I would not have found the outlet protectors and all the other nice stuff for babies. Maybe somebody else is capable of pointing us to another more suitable tester which is really applicable to our situation in Thailand ? I do know those testers exists but would love to hear an answer of a person who has actually used one. I prefer to read (check) the actual documentation of the manufacturer first because I do not trust the actual contents of Thaivisa on facevalue anymore (no matter how well intended) and current youtube vids available.

Just use a regular multimeter and follow the step by step instructions in my link, or google further yourself, it's really not rocket science.

In fact you can hire the best Thai electrician you can find specifically to teach you, just don't take only his word for it, compare to the instructions I've already provided you.

[RandomSand]

Follow up:

Thanks BigJohnnyBKK. I found the shower unit to be earthed. Taking your advice; I ran a multi meter from the live pin of a local electrical socket to the bathroom's earth. Showed up as a 240V running through it. That's good enough for me right now.

Alos extended the earthing cable into the main room for my PC so I'm a happy camper.

Edited May 28, 2012 by RandomSand

[citizen33]

_{Be careful of relying on a multi-meter or cheap socket tester to test the ground connection. They will show whether you have a connection to ground but not the condition of that connection. You really need a professional earth resistance tester for this job - doubt that there are many inThailand.}

Edited May 28, 2012 by citizen33

[BigJohnnyBKK]

]Be careful of relying on a multi-meter or cheap socket tester to test the ground connection. They will show whether you have a connection to ground but not the condition of that connection. You really need a professional earth resistance tester for this job - doubt that there are many in Thailand.

Well in my case for each house I've already paid for and personally supervised installation of the earthing rod and wiring back to the main panel and relevant locations through the house, so I'm just using the multimeter to confirm the wiring arrangement at the socket. I've never lived anywhere in Thailand where the soil wasn't completely water-soaked once you get more than a meter down.

Looks like a good tester's only $500 or so, worthwhile investment for anyone building a house, especially if you plan on installing a lot of computer gear.

[citizen33]

I have an old tester on top of my wardrobe that I picked up for GBP15, and another in a decent secondhand test set that cost more but not $500. The multi-meter test is better than nothing, I'm just saying that it is not the test a professional electrician in the west will use, and it will not tell you if Somchai has saved a few baht by sticking in a 12 inch earth rod rather than an 8 foot one.