Concept 2 Rower Model D (Exercise For Fat Loss)

[tropo]

It shouldn't be long. It's in the delivery truck in Chonburi already.

[tropo]

It just arrived!

I had to pay the courier 8281.44 baht

Here's a breakdown:

Cost: 33,128.11

Insurance (1%) 331.38

Freight 13,318.36

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CIF Bangkok 46,787.85

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Import Duty 10% 4,678.78

Customs VAT 7% 3,601.66

Amount Due 8,281.44

That means the total I paid for it is USD $1735 or 54,652 baht (ex rate: 31.5)

... now time to go and unpack it.....

[robblok]

In the end we paid similar amounts of money for it. Might have been in the exchange rate because i paid more for the shipper and tax. Anyway we both own one now. Others on the board do too they gave me the first pointers on how to get one.

[tropo]

Well Rob, I christened the new machine with a 60 minute row. I was going to do a leg day at the gym but decided to take the day off and stay home to row.

Goal - MAF for 60 minutes. I never do 60 minute rows, in fact 30 minutes has always been my limit.

It was interesting, to say the least.

First of all I noticed that the damper settings were much different to the ones at the gym. 10 on the new machine was far harder than 10 at the gym. I suspect dust accumulation has closed the flywheel mesh holes on the gym machine and reduced drag because when you set it to 10 the vents should be fully open, creating maximum drag.

I used 6, 7 and 8 for my row.

I found it extremely difficult to get my heart rate up today. For the first 12 minute split my heart rate averaged only 108. 99 average for the 2nd 12 minute split. That was lower because I needed to take a short toilet break (I wish there was a pause button). For the whole 60 minutes my average heart rate was only 112 yet it felt like a big effort to row for 60 minutes. You'd think that at 112 average it should have felt like a walk in the park - but I'm really tired now... more so than after 2 hours at gym. Going really hard at the end I peaked my heart rate momentarily at 130 - and that's as high as I could get it today.

I must say, 60 minutes seems like forever on the rower. I did 13022 meters and my calorie burn was just under 800. Average strokes/min 25.

30 minutes is a lot more "fun", that's for sure.

Anyway, that's my first day of experimentation.

[robblok]

Great that you have your rower, my second row of the day was great 5000 meters and i even saw my heart rate go up to 172. I am far worse shape then you. I did 22.53 for the 5000 meters that is my best time so far. Almost half a minute faster as my previous fastest time. My damper setting is always 5 as it is recommended. You like the higher settings i just keep it here.

I must say my body media gives a lot lower caloric count then the rower itself. I am actually not displeased with this because i prefer it over inflated numbers. (not sure what one is right).

I actually feel great after the 5000 meter a bit like a runners high.

I don't think there will be many days that i row 2 times. I worry that if i do it too much i get bored. For now its ideal cardio for me and if i can keep doing it in the morning its great. Then after weight lifting days i can always do an other session.

Definitely a good investment. How was it for you to be able to read the heart rate numbers on the screen ?

[tropo]

I must say my body media gives a lot lower caloric count then the rower itself. I am actually not displeased with this because i prefer it over inflated numbers. (not sure what one is right).

Definitely a good investment. How was it for you to be able to read the heart rate numbers on the screen ?

I would favour the machine calorie burn over the Bodymedia because it converts measurable energy expenditure (watts) into calorie burn. This is not rocket science as the human body needs to burn a specific number of calories to produce a specific number of watts.

If I was to choose the most accurate calorie burning figures out of the 3 cardio machines I use, I would put the Concept Rower in first place. It's a highly regarded machine that's been around for a long time. They have come up with the figures through extensive testing on people.

It was great having the heart rate showing on the monitor. Today the heart rate was so low I was worried that the Garmen belt was playing up. I even stopped a few times to check my pulse manually.

... but I'm baffled. I can't understand how a row could feel so hard when my heart rate was so low. I've always thought that heart rate is a good indication of intensity.

... but I also remember in the gym yesterday I was doing machine ab crunches and noted how low the heart rate was despite the perceived intensity being so high.

[robblok]

I will trust the concept for the calories, but even so its good to know that the body media isn't taking the data to liberal. I aborted the row this morning. Just did not feel right. My legs were hurting, i think i should not row so much on a day. Think i over did it yesterday. Think i will keep to MAF for now as it is lower intensity and better burner of calories. Only will go full out on the rower sometimes until my shape is a bit better.

[tropo]

I felt you were overdoing it a bit, but your body is telling you what to do - best to heed its advice.

Just on the calorie burning issue again - because a lot of people have made comments suggesting that the calorie burning measurements on cardio machines are bogus.

Here are the formulas that the Concept 2 uses to measure calories burned (from the manual):

Watts = 2.8/(sec/meter)^3

Calories/hour = Kcal/hr - (watts) x (4) x (0.8604) +300

So with my limited understanding of the math... it works out the watts by meter/sec then converts that to a calorie number using 4 (the body is about 25% efficient converting calories to energy) and then a coefficient (0.8604) that is probably derived by actual testing of real people on the machine.

[alfieconn]

I felt you were overdoing it a bit, but your body is telling you what to do - best to heed its advice.

Just on the calorie burning issue again - because a lot of people have made comments suggesting that the calorie burning measurements on cardio machines are bogus.

Here are the formulas that the Concept 2 uses to measure calories burned (from the manual):

Watts = 2.8/(sec/meter)^3

Calories/hour = Kcal/hr - (watts) x (4) x (0.8604) +300

So with my limited understanding of the math... it works out the watts by meter/sec then converts that to a calorie number using 4 (the body is about 25% efficient converting calories to energy) and then a coefficient (0.8604) that is probably derived by actual testing of real people on the machine.

Tropo, in an earlier post you mentioned Arthritis in your knees and still doing squats ! i am due back to the gym next week after a 6month break and in the mean time have had pain in my knees which the doctor put dowm to ortho arithitis, so will squatts be ok for myself ?

[tropo]

Tropo, in an earlier post you mentioned Arthritis in your knees and still doing squats ! i am due back to the gym next week after a 6month break and in the mean time have had pain in my knees which the doctor put dowm to ortho arithitis, so will squatts be ok for myself ?

Is the osteoarthritis in your knee tibiofemoral or patellofemoral? I have a bit of both just to keep it interesting.

I can't really say how much you will be able to do, but squatting should start at bodyweight (free squats) and only put extra weight on very, very slowly - using pain as a guide. If free squats hurt, then you could go lighter on leg press because you're not pushing your bodyweight.

My knees don't usually hurt when I squat, but if they do hurt I won't squat. It's very important to listen to your body. For example, yesterday I was scheduled for a leg workout but I noticed a little bit of pain in my left tibiofemoral joint, so I didn't train legs.

Knee arthritis is a case of: "damned if you do, damned if you don't". If you don't exercise the muscles atrophy and your knees get weaker (and the arthritic pain gets worse) - but exercising can be painful too. You have to work out what you do and be careful not to make it worse.,

Perhaps we should discuss this on a new thread as it is off topic here.

Cheers

[robblok]

I felt you were overdoing it a bit, but your body is telling you what to do - best to heed its advice.

Just on the calorie burning issue again - because a lot of people have made comments suggesting that the calorie burning measurements on cardio machines are bogus.

Here are the formulas that the Concept 2 uses to measure calories burned (from the manual):

Watts = 2.8/(sec/meter)^3

Calories/hour = Kcal/hr - (watts) x (4) x (0.8604) +300

So with my limited understanding of the math... it works out the watts by meter/sec then converts that to a calorie number using 4 (the body is about 25% efficient converting calories to energy) and then a coefficient (0.8604) that is probably derived by actual testing of real people on the machine.

Tropo,

For sure i was overdoing it yesterday. That last 5000 meters after my chest triceps workout killed me. I got energy and then an enormous loss of energy and i was totally void of energy. Now today i feel still void of energy so im not going to do much today. I think it was a bit to much my heart rate came to high and i just did not stop.

It happens and then when i went on the machine in the morning my legs hurt and still low on energy i thought.. forget about it.

Good lesson build things slowly.

[tropo]

It happens and then when i went on the machine in the morning my legs hurt and still low on energy i thought.. forget about it.

It's interesting that your legs hurt. You must be getting good stimulus in the legs when you row. You just have a very good leg drive.

I'll be training legs today and then do an evening session on the rower - probably 30 minutes.

[tropo]

I solved a mystery today. You may be aware that the Concept 2 automatically determines its drag factor. You find this under the "more options" - "display drag factor" menu. You start rowing and it gives you a number.

This "drag factor" helps you to determine what damper setting you need if you're using a different machine - for example, if you're doing a time trial or race you want the machine you're racing on to have the same drag factor as the one you train on.

Yesterday I discovered that my brand new machine was very much harder on damper setting 10 than the one at the gym. Today at the gym I checked the drag factor and it was only 150 on setting 10, the setting I always use there.

My new machine has a drag factor of 220 on setting 10. Setting 6 gives a drag factor the same as setting 10 at the gym.

No wonder I was finding it tough yesterday because I was using settings 7 and 8, which have a much higher drag factor than 10 at the gym.

So I need to use setting 6 on my new machine to equal what I'm used to down at the gym. If you look under "more information" then "drag factor" it mentions that the best drag settings to use are between 120 - 140, settings 3 - 5. I'll use 6 from now on, which is only a bit more.

[robblok]

Hi tropo i knew about the damper settings and mine is at 5 so that is not too bad. Its what they set it on standard.

It was not that my legs hurt like after a lot of leg exercises. They only hurt a little but felt tired. Not sure how to describe it. Anyway it will be ok.

[tropo]

Hi tropo i knew about the damper settings and mine is at 5 so that is not too bad. Its what they set it on standard.

It was not that my legs hurt like after a lot of leg exercises. They only hurt a little but felt tired. Not sure how to describe it. Anyway it will be ok.

It might be a good idea to get an exact drag factor reading at your setting of 5 and record it for future reference. Each machine will vary a little and this gives a precise way to set up another machine the same as yours or watch for a change as your machine ages. Setting 5 comes in at 140 on mine. Setting 10 would be like rowing a very heavy boat sunk deep into the water.

[robblok]

Tropo,

Yes it might indeed be a good idea to record it. Also you need to clean the machine once in a while to keep your drag settings good. I got a compressor that i can use if i take the machine apart. (use it on the computer too)

[tropo]

I see in the manual they recommend pulling the flywheel compartment apart to clean every 500 hours. I doubt they would have ever done that down at my gym so 220 drag reduced to 149 drag (setting 10) in 4 1/2 years of public gym use.

500 hours would probably take me 6.4 years assuming 1.5 hours per week. In reality I probably won't even row that much as a weekly average over 6 years.

Could you please explain to me how I can set up a previous session as a pace to row against?

[robblok]

There is an option re row. There you can set up what you want to re row. It can also be a previous workout. Int he menu where you can setup training.

[tropo]

Thanks! Yes, I saw the "rerow" function.

[tropo]

You've been very quiet on here Rob. What's up?

Did a 30 minute MAF last night - quite satisfied with my result - just over 7000m rowed - 435 cal burned.

Do you wear gloves when you row? I may have to because my calluses are pretty bad from all my training and I even got a blister on the rower last night. I remember the old Concept C (short straight handle) was pretty rough on the hands on long hard rows.

Day off the rower today - MAF at the gym, Bike - 45 min, Cybex - 45 min.

All the exercise must be paying off. I had 2 buffet dinners in a row including all the desserts I could possibly eat and there wasn't even a blip on my morning weight over the 2 days. I think this confirms the value of exercising as a primary way to lose fat. It resets the metabolism.

[robblok]

Trope,

I had a great workout followed by MAF 30 minutes ont he rower. I really like your score for the 30 minute row. It shows that your in better shape then me. I rowed 30 min and burned 340 cal. But i expected you to be in better cardio shape as me because you did a lot of cardio before. I really need to build it up.

I will be trying to do every day 45 min of MAF on the rower in the morning. I have to drill it into my routine. I hate it but i think its the best time for me to do it. Because it will give me energy and i have the rest of the day to work and free in the evening (if i dont have to workout).

Its hard to get something like that going but the reward would be good if i can do it. Means getting out of bed faster. I normally wake up and turn around or just lie in bed a bit longer without really sleeping. This would change that.

Anyway wish me luck.

[tropo]

Its hard to get something like that going but the reward would be good if i can do it. Means getting out of bed faster. I normally wake up and turn around or just lie in bed a bit longer without really sleeping. This would change that.

Anyway wish me luck.

I have the same problem. I wake up at about 5:30 to 6 hours and try to sleep longer. It just doesn't happen so I'm resigned to 6 hours per night and just get up now.

How's your lower back after all the rowing?

[robblok]

Its hard to get something like that going but the reward would be good if i can do it. Means getting out of bed faster. I normally wake up and turn around or just lie in bed a bit longer without really sleeping. This would change that.

Anyway wish me luck.

I have the same problem. I wake up at about 5:30 to 6 hours and try to sleep longer. It just doesn't happen so I'm resigned to 6 hours per night and just get up now.

How's your lower back after all the rowing?

Tropo,

Actually no problems at all for the lower back. But the part of my legs on the back that connects to my ass is a bit sore. I dont know why maybe because im not flexible and it gets stretched or used a lot now or i use it for the rowing.

Did feel my shoulders and upper back a bit today.. but that is not so strange as i had a leg / shoulder workout and then after that the rowing. Tomorrow im doing chest and triceps.

I usually have a lot of ambition about cardio but never seem to really get it going. Mainly because of time constraints when i work. But if i do it int he morning it will be ok actually.

[tropo]

How many times per week do you train each body part on your current split?

I'm doing body parts every 6 or 7 days.

I never feel rowing in the upper back. I feel it in the shoulders sometimes, but the lower back is the weak link for me.

[robblok]

I think i do every body part around 1,5 - 2 times a week. But i think you got it more split up then me.

I think we all got different weak points. I am not sure what mine are yet but i am sure its not my lower back. I would guess my weak point is my legs. But with MAF you don't really get to your weak point that fast.

HIT different story. Not sure about that just yet first want to do MAF every morning then maybe i can add a HIT once in a while after my training. But i want slowly build it up. All at once might be too much and drive me crazy and quit totally (dont think so because of the investment but still)

[robblok]

Did the 45 minutes in the morning burned 445 cal . It was nice gave me energy and lost a lot of sweat. I hope to improve on this int he future and i hope to keep doing it in the morning.

With me its always the behind of my legs that hurt at the end of the catch. Must be a flexibility issue or something like that. its not a real pain but i just feel it.

So far i think the rower is the best cardio for me, i don't really get bored with it and its more fun then the spinning bike. I think it will get me in better shape and i will be able to burn more calories later. So far this is enough, i might even do an other MAF session tonight after chest and triceps. I don't think it has much impact on my body at this intensity.

[tropo]

I don't sweat very much when I row at home. I aircon the room and blow a fan hard on me while I'm rowing.

45 minutes - chest & triceps - 45 minutes again?

You don't think that's too much of a good thing?

[robblok]

Tropo,

I never open the aircon when i row. But i do have a fan blow hard on me. But i sweat easy.

I am not going to do as you say.

45 minutes.. then rest till the evening.. then chest & triceps and 30 minutes of MAF. I do believe that MAF does not impact me that much. The problems start once i start rowing like crazy. Then it will cause extra stress on the muscles.

But it might be too much of a good thing to row more then once on a day. Though at low intensity im not so sure especially if one session is in the morning and the other at night.

[tropo]

I'm of two minds what to do today. I'm about to hit the gym for back (including deadlift) and biceps. I won't be doing any cardio at the gym and was thinking about doing a row this evening but I'm just not sure how it will go after the back workout.

I suppose there's only one way to know - try it.

[robblok]

Ok workout done and an other 30 minute MAF session after it. Must say best MAF session so far most distance and calories burned. Just had more power at a lower hearth-rate maybe its technique maybe just improvement. I hope for a bit of both.

Must say because i have to look at numbers and keep my hearth-rate at certain levels im not easily bored. Plus when you play some good music its quite enjoyable.