Red Leader Takes Dig At 'Egotistic' Thaksin

[GentlemanJim]

Red leader! LOL. He has been a critic of TS for a long time.

Just an opportunist trying to jump on the bandwagon.

Yes Birdpooguava, but the funny thing is...he is one of YOUR opportunists LoL! I find it amazing when faced with criticism of your dearly beloved from the red shirts themselves, that you are still unable to change your direction. It all seems reminiscent of a species on a famous film franchise. "Resistance is Futile" star date 3959 - Borg Commander.

dangerous times in LOS - what next

Taksin seems to have shown his true colors and might just be about to find Dubai more homely

Can Yingluk survive or does she become excess baggage to the power mungers and certain deputies

The reds seem divided and in a confused state, they voted and nothing changed

This is a power struggle the poor vers the rich elite and it seems the latter are still running things

I can't help but feel something is about to burst and it won't be pretty

I went to a PTP local meeting 2 days ago in Surin,and the local faction are well aware of Thaksin.I was pleasantly surprised at at their understanding of everything going on.

It sounds genuinely interesting. Could you share some of the thoughts and feelings the people at the meeting had.

[silsburyhill]

Hilarious how all these former Useful Idiots of Thaksin's are now shocked, SHOCKED, that they have become Useless Idiots now that Thaksin is done with them.

Au contraire. He still needs them not to make a fuss now that the scales have fallen from their eyes and are able to think for themselves.

Impossible. 'Genie' 'bottle'.

[DP25]

Right on. He and his family are only the 19th richest in Thailand. Not many above them!

I think you don't understand how a "class" system works. One of the very reasons that Thaksin got himself into this position is that he wasn't an accepted part of the existing upper class elite in this country. You have to be granted entry, play by the rules, become part of the woodwork, appear to serve the country and work in the interests of the elite to be part of the upper class elite. It is a very cosy club, and money is not the only arbiter of entry.

If you don't, you find yourself, very quickly find yourself in Dubai. No amount of cash can buy instant acceptance at the top, not in Thailand, nor other parts of the world with similar systems. He is at best "Hi-so", not upper class.

Maybe you're unfamiliar with Thaksin's family background. He doesn't play it up because he likes to pretend to be some kind of self made man. He was born in to wealth and power, both socially and financially. Thaksin is descended from the Na Chiang Mai family on his mother's side, the former rulers of the Kingdom of Chiangmai. Thaksin is part of the elite upper class, you can not get much more elite than him. That is why Thaksin's father was able to secure a seat in parliament in Chiang Mai, and why Thaksin was so easily able to enter politics later on.

[Bagwan]

Right on. He and his family are only the 19th richest in Thailand. Not many above them!

I think you don't understand how a "class" system works. One of the very reasons that Thaksin got himself into this position is that he wasn't an accepted part of the existing upper class elite in this country. You have to be granted entry, play by the rules, become part of the woodwork, appear to serve the country and work in the interests of the elite to be part of the upper class elite. It is a very cosy club, and money is not the only arbiter of entry.

If you don't, you find yourself, very quickly find yourself in Dubai. No amount of cash can buy instant acceptance at the top, not in Thailand, nor other parts of the world with similar systems. He is at best "Hi-so", not upper class.

Precisely. Winning the Lottery won't get you into the Royal enclosure at Ascot. My thoughts are there are more than enough drongos in there already anyway.

[OzMick]

dangerous times in LOS - what next

Taksin seems to have shown his true colors and might just be about to find Dubai more homely

Can Yingluk survive or does she become excess baggage to the power mungers and certain deputies

The reds seem divided and in a confused state, they voted and nothing changed

This is a power struggle the poor vers the rich elite and it seems the latter are still running things

I can't help but feel something is about to burst and it won't be pretty

I went to a PTP local meeting 2 days ago in Surin,and the local faction are well aware of Thaksin.I was pleasantly surprised at at their understanding of everything going on.

We're all "well aware" of Thaksin. If you're saying that they are well aware that he is meglomaniacal thief, then why are they members of PTP?

[gregb]

Khun Sombat seems like a level headed and reasonable person. Someone that you could actually have a meaningful conversation with and come away from it with some hope of moving forward together. That is why he is a nobody.

Sadly, he doesn't speak for the vast majority of reds, and in particular the violent, thuggish faction, who are still strongly devout followers of the demagogue in Dubai, and who still happily hold the rest of the country in contempt, and would fire bomb everyone else if it meant they got paid 500 baht from their square headed deity.

Wake me up when the bulk of the red shirts have developed intelligence and no longer follow their current plan to destroy the country and put their chosen tyrant in power.

[GentlemanJim]

Khun Sombat seems like a level headed and reasonable person. Someone that you could actually have a meaningful conversation with and come away from it with some hope of moving forward together. That is why he is a nobody.

Sadly, he doesn't speak for the vast majority of reds, and in particular the violent, thuggish faction, who are still strongly devout followers of the demagogue in Dubai, and who still happily hold the rest of the country in contempt, and would fire bomb everyone else if it meant they got paid 500 baht from their square headed deity.

Wake me up when the bulk of the red shirts have developed intelligence and no longer follow their current plan to destroy the country and put their chosen tyrant in power.

Can you sleep for 25 years ?

[ramrod711]

The diehard members of the Thaksin Fan Club won't change their spots. Those who can see the bigger picture will. But its the diehards that can cause the most trouble. Thaksin and the other leaders know that the kwais are easily manipulated and they still (and will continue to do so) form a considerable army that can cause mayhem when and where they like and then use Thaksin and his PR people (such as that disgusting Robert Amsterdam) to rewrite history. Even Thaksin is not sure where he himself stands. 'I'm out of politics', 'Thaksin thinks ......' etc etc etc. Shifting sands. If you look at his contradictory statements over the years you can see he is an idiot and people like Amsterdam recognise this and simply pump him for all he's worth as he's a good earner for these guys.

As for democracy, Thai's have no idea what this word, or concept, means. The fundamental basis of Democracy is the rule of law. Without the rule of law, or respect for the law, there can be no democracy. Burning Bangkok, looting shops, accusing the Abhisit government of things about which they were not responsible, constant lies and corruption - even smaller things like all the reds I saw here in Chiang Mai riding their motorcycles without helmets whilst on their way to some rally, proves beyond any reasonable doubt that the reds are as far away from understanding democracy as you could possibly be. And that's the way Thaksin wants it to be. If only they understood .........................

not to mention his thinly veiled threat of spending money at arms dealers if he doesn't get his way. can anyone think of another country where this guy wouldn't be hunted down and sent to the world court as a terrorist?

[Skywalker69]

Red leader! LOL. He has been a critic of TS for a long time.

Just an opportunist trying to jump on the bandwagon.

When is the TV "Thaksinistas" going to jump the bandwagon?

[Thai at Heart]

Right on. He and his family are only the 19th richest in Thailand. Not many above them!

I think you don't understand how a "class" system works. One of the very reasons that Thaksin got himself into this position is that he wasn't an accepted part of the existing upper class elite in this country. You have to be granted entry, play by the rules, become part of the woodwork, appear to serve the country and work in the interests of the elite to be part of the upper class elite. It is a very cosy club, and money is not the only arbiter of entry.

If you don't, you find yourself, very quickly find yourself in Dubai. No amount of cash can buy instant acceptance at the top, not in Thailand, nor other parts of the world with similar systems. He is at best "Hi-so", not upper class.

Maybe you're unfamiliar with Thaksin's family background. He doesn't play it up because he likes to pretend to be some kind of self made man. He was born in to wealth and power, both socially and financially. Thaksin is descended from the Na Chiang Mai family on his mother's side, the former rulers of the Kingdom of Chiangmai. Thaksin is part of the elite upper class, you can not get much more elite than him. That is why Thaksin's father was able to secure a seat in parliament in Chiang Mai, and why Thaksin was so easily able to enter politics later on.

His father was a powerful man in Chiangmai, but in terms of influence Chiangmai has always been the second city. Something befell the family wealth and he has rebuilt it. He became a policeman, which isn't the traditional way to a position of "power" in the country, that is reserved for army. His education was only overseas after university (as opposed to the very top who send their kids out of the country very young), his money was made from being paid by the "people" as opposed to building something strategically valuable and long lasting that could be termed as benefitting the country i.e. CP. His business wasn't founded on a generational model, to pass from generation to generation, it was seen as not being of "long" term benefit to the country.

I haven't met many of the so-called elite, but I went to school with a few and have met their families here. Very yellow, pro-monarchy, extreme wealth, well educated, but know how it works here and accept the status quo. Maybe you can say wealth wise, Thaksin was nominally part of the elite, but in terms of being accepted by the real power brokers in Bangkok, I think not. I am well acquainted with one old money family that was TRT, but has distanced themselves from the core of PTP because of the fear that the change Thaksin was bringing went beyond just politics.

The rumours about him being tipped off about 97 have been around for ages, and it took down some of the older money in Bangkok buy he survived. Maybe my seeing him as an outsider, is more to do with the Bangkok bunch basically resenting him for being in the know when they weren't.

I don't think we can deny that his TRT/PTP bunch was of a younger more modern industry type, media, telecoms, construction, differently from the traditional old bunch and I have always believed we have seen a Thai/Chinese business turf war fold out in front of our eyes under the guise of politics. Yellow/Democrat/Army insiders versus the upcoming opportunistic industrialists, slimy old school opportunistic politicians with the reds in tow for support. He almost outsmarted them all, and Thailand is a different place because of it. The changing of the guard would have happened eventually anyway, it just would have taken longer.

After a lot of reading, I don't see much to change my opinion.

[scorecard]

Red leader! LOL. He has been a critic of TS for a long time.

Just an opportunist trying to jump on the bandwagon.

Yes Birdpooguava, but the funny thing is...he is one of YOUR opportunists LoL! I find it amazing when faced with criticism of your dearly beloved from the red shirts themselves, that you are still unable to change your direction. It all seems reminiscent of a species on a famous film franchise. "Resistance is Futile" star date 3959 - Borg Commander.

dangerous times in LOS - what next

Taksin seems to have shown his true colors and might just be about to find Dubai more homely

Can Yingluk survive or does she become excess baggage to the power mungers and certain deputies

The reds seem divided and in a confused state, they voted and nothing changed

This is a power struggle the poor vers the rich elite and it seems the latter are still running things

I can't help but feel something is about to burst and it won't be pretty

I went to a PTP local meeting 2 days ago in Surin,and the local faction are well aware of Thaksin.I was pleasantly surprised at at their understanding of everything going on.

It sounds genuinely interesting. Could you share some of the thoughts and feelings the people at the meeting had.

Agree, please share more, thank you.

[dru2]

Thaksin is an Egotist And he's just worked that out. As bugs would say "What a maroon!"

I bet his friends call him Phar Lap, and not because he's hung like a horse.

Indeed, it seems it took a bit longer to grasp the nettle of obviousness.

"...just a 'station on way towards democracy'"

Except Thaksin has imagined he was the controlling and central force,

rather than see that they were using him much as he used them.

Yet, clearly many did indeed actually believe the cover story,

and decade long propaganda campaign.

But as this guy runs a minor faction and others are much farther left,

but would be using this faction, and Thaksin in similar sefl-serving ideological ways,

you have to wonder how 'out of Thaksin's control' this has already spun, and will spin.

And where is this headed now that the liege-lord has ceased to be the prime directive?

"The nettle of obviousness" - a neat phrase. I like it!

[waza]

Red leader! LOL. He has been a critic of TS for a long time.

Just an opportunist trying to jump on the bandwagon.

Ah he is a fake Red Shirt, where have I heard that before?

No independant though will be tolerated, hey birdpooguava

Edited May 25, 2012 by waza

[DP25]

After a lot of reading, I don't see much to change my opinion.

I feel the same way after reading your post. A lot of words saying little and a lot of lame excuses trying to prop up Thaksin's fable that he is not part of the elite and is a self made man. It is a fact that he is a man born in to immense wealth and social power, descended from the hereditary rulers of the Kingdom of Chiangmai and part of an extremely influential and powerful family. His father was a member of parliament, a position he secured because he was a wealthy member of the elite. Thaksin raised his clan from millionaire to billionaire precisely because of his connections within the elite, connections he had access to because of who he was. All of these doors would have been closed to him if he had been a normal person. He has both supporters and opponents among the elite and opposition to him isn't based on who he is, he is undoubtedly part of the elite, but what he is and what he has done. He hasn't changed anything, rather he is strengthening the rule of the elites and bending the other elites to his own will. Which is precisely why I refer to all these naive red shirts like the guy in the OP as useful idiots, because that is all that they are to Thaksin. They are useful tools that he uses to cement his own political position. Now that they are no longer useful they will be discarded. They may moan and whine a bit but without access to Thaksin's checkbook they have no power and will be ignored by almost everyone.

[thaihome]

Finally??

There are segments of the UDD that wanted to see Thaksin imprisoned, dead or banished.

I've been saying this since the start; The Redshirts were a coalition of divergent views that were able to unite when there was a common "enemy". Now that the military junta and its puppet government under Abhisit was removed at the polls, the various factions have lost their common purpose. Some TVFers would be surprised by the animosity that some Redshirts have for Thaksin. The only reason they would not support the Democrats is because they felt that the Democrats were part of the problem and oblivious to the needs of the poor. It is much easier to stereotype the redshirts as ignorant rural folk, but there are many educated honest members, a great many of whom are opposed to corruption.

You keep saying that over and over, but never explain why when there is any UDD gathering in Bangkok or upcountry Thaksin's picture and paraphernalia is all over the place? Why is he the key note speaker and major draw for any large gathering?

The anti-Thaksin, or even the apathetic towards Thaksin factions are a small minority of the support. Agreed, some of the small factions such as Sombat are not Thaksin fans, but they have rode the coattails to draw supporters.

Virtually all the major and local leadership with a popular following are hack politicians.Do you think Jatuporn and Natuwat are going to go against Thaiksin? Who will the UDD unite behind? Tilda? Weng?

Nothing to do but wait and see how this plays out over the next year but I believe that without Thaksin the UDD will become marginalized and will be seen as a minor radical organization with little political weight.

TH

Edited May 25, 2012 by thaihome

[waza]

After a lot of reading, I don't see much to change my opinion.

I feel the same way after reading your post. A lot of words saying little and a lot of lame excuses trying to prop up Thaksin's fable that he is not part of the elite and is a self made man. It is a fact that he is a man born in to immense wealth and social power, descended from the hereditary rulers of the Kingdom of Chiangmai and part of an extremely influential and powerful family. His father was a member of parliament, a position he secured because he was a wealthy member of the elite. Thaksin raised his clan from millionaire to billionaire precisely because of his connections within the elite, connections he had access to because of who he was. All of these doors would have been closed to him if he had been a normal person. He has both supporters and opponents among the elite and opposition to him isn't based on who he is, he is undoubtedly part of the elite, but what he is and what he has done. He hasn't changed anything, rather he is strengthening the rule of the elites and bending the other elites to his own will. Which is precisely why I refer to all these naive red shirts like the guy in the OP as useful idiots, because that is all that they are to Thaksin. They are useful tools that he uses to cement his own political position. Now that they are no longer useful they will be discarded. They may moan and whine a bit but without access to Thaksin's checkbook they have no power and will be ignored by almost everyone.

In my Opinion.....

I agree but what I am also seeing is not only are Thaksins supporters realising that his machinations are only for the benifit of himself, but they are starting to ask the question, do we need Thaksin? Tradionally Thaksin was the honey pot and therefore the glue that held the various factions together wether they are political, military or usefull idiots. Thaksin has been gone too long and his resourses have dwindled and people are realising that the wealth didnt come from Thaksin, it came from corruption. They can bypass the middleman simply by getting a government position and collect the graft. Even those presently at the trough are asking themselve why should I give my position up for 1 of the club, the 111. The reality is everyone is better off if Thaksin stays an exile in Dubai with his Mia Noi, while the ex runs things in Thailand. Remember you heard it hear first lol

Edited May 25, 2012 by waza

[h90]

Either this guy is totally full of s**t or he's deluded and clueless.

Sombat is merely reflecting the new views of many red shirts. They are finally seeing Thaksin has been using them all along. We know this time would eventually come. Congrats to Thailand!!

Finally??

There are segments of the UDD that wanted to see Thaksin imprisoned, dead or banished.

I've been saying this since the start; The Redshirts were a coalition of divergent views that were able to unite when there was a common "enemy". Now that the military junta and its puppet government under Abhisit was removed at the polls, the various factions have lost their common purpose. Some TVFers would be surprised by the animosity that some Redshirts have for Thaksin. The only reason they would not support the Democrats is because they felt that the Democrats were part of the problem and oblivious to the needs of the poor. It is much easier to stereotype the redshirts as ignorant rural folk, but there are many educated honest members, a great many of whom are opposed to corruption.

I remember the Red Shirts ALL with Thaksin TShirts.....the red shirts are nothing without Thaksin. There are a some communists who thought they use Thaksin but without his money they are again down to 3000 people nationwide who can discuss hours which flavor of communism is the best one (Maoist, Stalinists, Marxists, etc etc)

[Thai at Heart]

After a lot of reading, I don't see much to change my opinion.

I feel the same way after reading your post. A lot of words saying little and a lot of lame excuses trying to prop up Thaksin's fable that he is not part of the elite and is a self made man. It is a fact that he is a man born in to immense wealth and social power, descended from the hereditary rulers of the Kingdom of Chiangmai and part of an extremely influential and powerful family. His father was a member of parliament, a position he secured because he was a wealthy member of the elite. Thaksin raised his clan from millionaire to billionaire precisely because of his connections within the elite, connections he had access to because of who he was. All of these doors would have been closed to him if he had been a normal person. He has both supporters and opponents among the elite and opposition to him isn't based on who he is, he is undoubtedly part of the elite, but what he is and what he has done. He hasn't changed anything, rather he is strengthening the rule of the elites and bending the other elites to his own will. Which is precisely why I refer to all these naive red shirts like the guy in the OP as useful idiots, because that is all that they are to Thaksin. They are useful tools that he uses to cement his own political position. Now that they are no longer useful they will be discarded. They may moan and whine a bit but without access to Thaksin's checkbook they have no power and will be ignored by almost everyone.

I never said he was a self made man, and I have never said he wasn't connected or a man of the people. He was of a level high enough to get himself in no doubt, but to claim he is held in Bangkok with same esteem as some of the other long term players in Bangkok is a false idea. There was another PM from Chiangmai once, and see how long the army let that one go on.

There is a clique of people who have been running this country for a long time, and Thaksin got onto the table as a relative new comer. While the Bunnags and the Vejjajivas were running all over the world or serving the country, Thaksin was just a speck in the eye of the future plans for Thailand. He rose fast, out of left field.

http://www.thailandt...00-list-2012/a/

Only one Shinawatra to be found? This is the list of people and families who think they run the country

Edited May 25, 2012 by Thai at Heart

[DP25]

There is a clique of people who have been running this country for a long time, and Thaksin got onto the table as a relative new comer. While the Bunnags and the Vejjajivas were running all over the world or serving the country, Thaksin was just a speck in the eye of the future plans for Thailand. He rose fast, out of left field.

http://www.thailandt...00-list-2012/a/

Only one Shinawatra to be found? This is the list of people and families who think they run the country

Thaksin did not get in on this clique. He was born in to it by right of decent, through both blood and money. Thaksin is more elite than most of those people on that list and was the moment he was born because of who his family was. Lots of those people are just rich people or new money, Thaksin was rich and has blood decent from aristocracy of the royal family of Chiang Mai. He had a father who was an MP, and an uncle who was an MP and a cabinet member, and another uncle who mayor of Chiang Mai. This all automatically makes him more 'elite' than all but a few in Thailand. The opposition to Thaksin had nothing to do with him not being 'elite' enough, because he was as elite as almost anyone in the country. Certainly far more elite than most of the people who oppose him. People who say Thaksin was not part of the elite are simply wrong, spectacularly so.

[Thai at Heart]

There is a clique of people who have been running this country for a long time, and Thaksin got onto the table as a relative new comer. While the Bunnags and the Vejjajivas were running all over the world or serving the country, Thaksin was just a speck in the eye of the future plans for Thailand. He rose fast, out of left field.

http://www.thailandt...00-list-2012/a/

Only one Shinawatra to be found? This is the list of people and families who think they run the country

Thaksin did not get in on this clique. He was born in to it by right of decent, through both blood and money. Thaksin is more elite than most of those people on that list and was the moment he was born because of who his family was. Lots of those people are just rich people or new money, Thaksin was rich and has blood decent from aristocracy of the royal family of Chiang Mai. He had a father who was an MP, and an uncle who was an MP and a cabinet member, and another uncle who mayor of Chiang Mai. This all automatically makes him more 'elite' than all but a few in Thailand. The opposition to Thaksin had nothing to do with him not being 'elite' enough, because he was as elite as almost anyone in the country. Certainly far more elite than most of the people who oppose him. People who say Thaksin was not part of the elite are simply wrong, spectacularly so.

Actually, this might explain a lot

A vassal to Bangkok

In 1802, Buddha Yodfa Chulalok elevated Min Vachiraprakarn as King of Chiangmai presiding over Lanna states (Principalities of Lampang, Lampoon, Nan, and Prae) but as a Siamese vassal. In 1804, King Kawila retook Chiang Saenfrom the Konbaung dynasty. Also, Kawila went on various campaigns against Burma and sent the captives to Bangkok.

The Chiangmai succession was strictly regulated by Bangkok. After the death of a king, the Uparaja retained the status as a prince until he visited the King of Bangkok that he would be elevated to the king. As the result, the reign of Chiangmai kings were not continuous as the Uparaja usually spent at least a year going to Bangkok.

Chiangmai sent tributes to Bangkok triennially. The tributes included worthy forest products like the teak. Chaingmai had also provided troops and manpower to Bangkok on her military campaigns, including that of Rebellion of Anouvong in 1824. Also, Chiangmai was the main base for the Siamese efforts to expand into Shan states.

The degree of Chiangmai's control over its subdornate states varied on the course of history. Under Kawila, his fresh installment by Rama I enforced the Chiangmai control over the principalities. However, the principalities then gained their autonomies as strong symbolic justification from Bangkok was not granted. In the mid-19th century, the Chiangmai control resumed under Mahotrapratet due to the encouragement of Rama III.

The indemnities to the British was a burden to Bangkok government as it had to lend money to Chiangmai for the debt. In 1873, Chulalongkorn sent Phra Narinthra Rachaseni as his intendant to Chiangmai. The Bangkok court, which considered the Western influences as a threat and knew how to deal with them, couldn't leave the Chiangmai court to have the relations with Western powers independently.

Things went urgent in 1883 when it was rumored that Queen Victoria of the United Kingdom was going to made herself the godmother of Princess Dara Rasmi of Chiang Mai, Inthawichayanon's daughter. This was perceived as the British efforts to take over Lanna. Chulalongkorn then sent his brother Krom Muen Pinit Prichakorn to Chiangmai to propose the engagement of Dararasmi as his concubine.

In 1884, Chulalongkorn announced his municipal provincial system (Thai: มณฑลเทศาภิบาล) and the two provinces - the Northwestern Province and Maharashtra Province - was imposed on the Chiangmai kingdom. All the Lanna kings including Chiangmai were reduced to city mayors. The Siamese nobility was installed as the officials of northern provinces in duality with native Lanna's old nobility.

Dararasmi was married to Chulalongkorn in 1886 as a symbol of union of two kingdoms. Dararasmi was raised to Princess Consort - a high rank of court ladies only preceded by Chulalongkorn's four queens. Inthawichayanon's son, Prince Inthawarorot, then ruled Chiangmai under strict regulation of Bangkokian intendants. Major General Prince Kaew Nawarat was the last ruler of Chiangmai, as upon his death the title was dissolved (under the government of GeneralPhibun) as well as the political power of Tipchak dynasty.

The modern descendants of the rulers of Chiangmai bear the surname Na Chiangmai (Thai: ณ เชียงใหม่) as granted byVajiravudh under his 1912 Surname Act.

http://en.wikipedia....om_of_Chiangmai

Edited May 25, 2012 by Thai at Heart

[GentlemanJim]

Perhaps Thaksin has a vision of dividing the country and making Chiang Mai the capital of his little banana republic.

[rixalex]

After a lot of reading, I don't see much to change my opinion.

I feel the same way after reading your post. A lot of words saying little and a lot of lame excuses trying to prop up Thaksin's fable that he is not part of the elite and is a self made man. It is a fact that he is a man born in to immense wealth and social power, descended from the hereditary rulers of the Kingdom of Chiangmai and part of an extremely influential and powerful family. His father was a member of parliament, a position he secured because he was a wealthy member of the elite. Thaksin raised his clan from millionaire to billionaire precisely because of his connections within the elite, connections he had access to because of who he was. All of these doors would have been closed to him if he had been a normal person. He has both supporters and opponents among the elite and opposition to him isn't based on who he is, he is undoubtedly part of the elite, but what he is and what he has done. He hasn't changed anything, rather he is strengthening the rule of the elites and bending the other elites to his own will. Which is precisely why I refer to all these naive red shirts like the guy in the OP as useful idiots, because that is all that they are to Thaksin. They are useful tools that he uses to cement his own political position. Now that they are no longer useful they will be discarded. They may moan and whine a bit but without access to Thaksin's checkbook they have no power and will be ignored by almost everyone.

I never said he was a self made man, and I have never said he wasn't connected or a man of the people. He was of a level high enough to get himself in no doubt, but to claim he is held in Bangkok with same esteem as some of the other long term players in Bangkok is a false idea. There was another PM from Chiangmai once, and see how long the army let that one go on.

There is a clique of people who have been running this country for a long time, and Thaksin got onto the table as a relative new comer. While the Bunnags and the Vejjajivas were running all over the world or serving the country, Thaksin was just a speck in the eye of the future plans for Thailand. He rose fast, out of left field.

http://www.thailandt...00-list-2012/a/

Only one Shinawatra to be found? This is the list of people and families who think they run the country

I get what you are saying about Thaksin's origins and his background separating him from the deeply entrenched old money elite, but he is still part of the elite in general, and the way that he did manage to rise right to the top, to me demonstrates that the long term players don't enjoy a completely closed off grip on power that "new" money can never enter.

OK, yes, i know what you are going to say, he wasn't allowed to hold on to his position at the top, but it is my belief that that wasn't something pre-destined the moment he took office no matter what he did. I think had he not been so divisive and brazen in certain actions as PM, he would have easily stayed in power a very long time.

[rubl]

From the commemoration last Saturday, surely not about k. Thaksin, who surely is an ordinary guy like you and me and who dislikes 'elite'

Edited May 25, 2012 by rubl

[Thai at Heart]

After a lot of reading, I don't see much to change my opinion.

I feel the same way after reading your post. A lot of words saying little and a lot of lame excuses trying to prop up Thaksin's fable that he is not part of the elite and is a self made man. It is a fact that he is a man born in to immense wealth and social power, descended from the hereditary rulers of the Kingdom of Chiangmai and part of an extremely influential and powerful family. His father was a member of parliament, a position he secured because he was a wealthy member of the elite. Thaksin raised his clan from millionaire to billionaire precisely because of his connections within the elite, connections he had access to because of who he was. All of these doors would have been closed to him if he had been a normal person. He has both supporters and opponents among the elite and opposition to him isn't based on who he is, he is undoubtedly part of the elite, but what he is and what he has done. He hasn't changed anything, rather he is strengthening the rule of the elites and bending the other elites to his own will. Which is precisely why I refer to all these naive red shirts like the guy in the OP as useful idiots, because that is all that they are to Thaksin. They are useful tools that he uses to cement his own political position. Now that they are no longer useful they will be discarded. They may moan and whine a bit but without access to Thaksin's checkbook they have no power and will be ignored by almost everyone.

I never said he was a self made man, and I have never said he wasn't connected or a man of the people. He was of a level high enough to get himself in no doubt, but to claim he is held in Bangkok with same esteem as some of the other long term players in Bangkok is a false idea. There was another PM from Chiangmai once, and see how long the army let that one go on.

There is a clique of people who have been running this country for a long time, and Thaksin got onto the table as a relative new comer. While the Bunnags and the Vejjajivas were running all over the world or serving the country, Thaksin was just a speck in the eye of the future plans for Thailand. He rose fast, out of left field.

http://www.thailandt...00-list-2012/a/

Only one Shinawatra to be found? This is the list of people and families who think they run the country

I get what you are saying about Thaksin's origins and his background separating him from the deeply entrenched old money elite, but he is still part of the elite in general, and the way that he did manage to rise right to the top, to me demonstrates that the long term players don't enjoy a completely closed off grip on power that "new" money can never enter.

OK, yes, i know what you are going to say, he wasn't allowed to hold on to his position at the top, but it is my belief that that wasn't something pre-destined the moment he took office no matter what he did. I think had he not been so divisive and brazen in certain actions as PM, he would have easily stayed in power a very long time.

It was his actions that led to his downfall for a myriad of reasons. If he had played by the established rules, least of which, is don't pee on anyone else's established business, he would probably still be there.

[metisdead]

An off topic nonsense post has been removed as well as the associated replies.

[Arkady]

Hilarious. A retired Air Chief Marshall who is a cabinet minister has to come out to defend a billionaire convicted criminal on the run and assure rebellious peasants, who are treated like sh*t by the military, politicians and billionaires alike, that the billionaire fugitive is not cosying up to the elites. Keep 'em coming.

[ianf]

Either this guy is totally full of s**t or he's deluded and clueless.

Sombat is merely reflecting the new views of many red shirts. They are finally seeing Thaksin has been using them all along. We know this time would eventually come. Congrats to Thailand!!

Finally??

There are segments of the UDD that wanted to see Thaksin imprisoned, dead or banished.

I've been saying this since the start; The Redshirts were a coalition of divergent views that were able to unite when there was a common "enemy". Now that the military junta and its puppet government under Abhisit was removed at the polls, the various factions have lost their common purpose. Some TVFers would be surprised by the animosity that some Redshirts have for Thaksin. The only reason they would not support the Democrats is because they felt that the Democrats were part of the problem and oblivious to the needs of the poor. It is much easier to stereotype the redshirts as ignorant rural folk, but there are many educated honest members, a great many of whom are opposed to corruption.

I think this is something that has been argued time and time again on TV. Abhsit's government was not a puppet ...... evidence disproved this ideological mistruth that the poster has used time and time again.

[rixalex]

It was his actions that led to his downfall for a myriad of reasons. If he had played by the established rules, least of which, is don't pee on anyone else's established business, he would probably still be there.

You think he didn't already pee on other people's established businesses in his climb to the top?

[ianf]

Another way to look at the Thaksin saga is to look at what is now happening in Chiang Mai. There are a couple of billionnaire families that control this city. They are all friendly with the Shianwatras. The moment the PTP 'won' this election, money from the government coffers started pouring into Chiang Mai. All the big players were in place: Land had been acquired for the development of shopping malls and moo baans; projects that had previously been on 'hold' burst back into life, a new ring road from Hang Dong to Mae Rim was announced: not surprisingly the Thaksinites has already acquired land along the route, thus doubling, tripling (and so on) the value of this land in no time. Its about money. And Thaksin's red shirt movement, for Thaksin at least, is about acquiring the support, through force and menace, to enable him to continue piling cash into his already overful bank accounts. Democracy was simply a useful word that would pull these red shirts into one movement behind him. Thaksin is not a democrat. His actions over the years have proved that time and time again. The majority of reds have no idea what democracy is. But there is a small movement that believe and understand democracy and I guess that these guys know what a scam the rest of the movement is. Another way to develop a movement is by finding a common enemy (in other countries it could be blacks, jews and so on( and in this case it was the 'elite'). This elite is actually the same people who have their snouts in the trough as being demonstrated in Chiang Mai even as you read this. As I see it the Democrat Party is composed, partly, of humanitarians, people who have education and understand the world a little bit more than the average red; it is comprised of academics, intellectuals and people in general who have jai dee. Abhisit had a rough time with some of his own people who had their fingers in the pie but he was well meaning, he held back when the reds were bent on tearing the capital city apart. He knew that the venom would be turned on him with the carefully orchestrated lies and deceit of that master of illusion who now lives in Dubai. But he stood his ground and held his head up high in spite of the pressue that he was under and the lies spread about him by Thaksin, Amsterdam and repeated by Jatuporn, Arissman and the other Kwais in there for the ride. Some posters here (not too many of them thank goodness) seem to ignore these simple truths and prefer to be dragged along by the fake democrat. But in all of these situations over history there have always been a small minority who prefer the notoriety of siding with the bad guys often at the expense of the poor and downtrodden. Lord Haw Haw in the UK is a great example. Sadly, Thai politics cannot change - at least not in my lifetime. Good governance could do so much for this country and the poor sods who still have to manage on 150 baht a day, if they can get work at all. If this was another country we could widen the debate a bit more but I believe that there were very powerful forces that intervened at some point to help save the country but sadly this was not to be and the battle will continue. 'Reconciliation', like 'democracy' is another buzz word designed to create a diversion from what is really happening. Some Thaksinites (here on TV) may be easily fooled by these illusions but thankfully I sense that on TV, at least, there is a body of good people, people who care about others, who truly understand this stuff. They are the kind of people who can make a difference in this world.

[volk666]

Sombat is just a demagogue who can weave a few fancy words like "democracy" into his discourse. In the end it's meaningless just like the alleged awakening of the reds because none of it has anything to with the real business of running this country, for better or for worse, as described by Ianf:

The moment the PTP 'won' this election, money from the government coffers started pouring into Chiang Mai. All the big players were in place: Land had been acquired for the development of shopping malls and moo baans; projects that had previously been on 'hold' burst back into life, a new ring road from Hang Dong to Mae Rim was announced: not surprisingly the Thaksinites has already acquired land along the route, thus doubling, tripling (and so on) the value of this land in no time. Its about money.

Yellows at least had some real ideas on how the governance of this country could be changed, simply harping on and on about democracy is barking at the wrong tree, it only gives the grassroots an illusion of "participating".