Steroid Vacation In Thailand

[doggie888888]

this Tim wards guys facebook is quite hilariouse. He posts pics picking up different girls everynight from the bars and giving a humrouse view of peoples lives in pattaya.

So this Guy openly admits to take Illegal Drugs in Thailand on a daily Basis.

Quite Clever ...

Maybe someone should tell him that Steroids are Illegal in Thailand since a couple of years..

They did tell him, right after they told him that prostitution is illegal in Thailand.

[phl]

I started training when i was 15 years old, but 18 i felt i need some booster as muscle was not growing anymore. So to go to the next level, i started to gear up at the age of 18, i did that on/off for 3 years.

I felt great and looked pretty good also, HOWEVER gains do not come easy, no matter how much steroids you take, muscles do not just grow while you sleeping.

I had to train even harder, sleep the right amounts, eat properly and in regime, etc etc etc

At the age of 22 i suffered my first mild heart attack, at 23 tumors in kidney, gained hair etc etc, naturally i stopped taking steroids but kept training.

Age 30, both my rotator cuffs in shoulder ripped, had to have surgery, now mid 30's more and more problems popping up

You will find that guys who are on steroids do not talk, but do have many health issues related to steroid taking.

Yes mentally you feel happy and strong, however the rest of the body starts to fail sooner or later.

I did train with pro body builders, like Mr Australia, Mr NSW, Mr Universe(runner up) and watching them over the years, everyone gets crippled with some health issues.

All in all, unless you want to be a pro and compete, i would not advise to even try it, as it is mentally addictive

[Yunla]

With respect, Yunla, the differentiation between corticosteroids (which is what I presume you've been prescribed for your MS) and anabolic steroids (what the body builders take) are that they are different birds altogether.

I sincerely extend my best wishes to you and best of luck in your continuing battle against that dreadful ailment.

Hi and thankyou for your well-wishes.

I know some of the differences between different steroid groups, but I was pointing out that even legal prescription life-saving steroids have massive side effects. I did a lot of background reading on synthetic steroids in general, including anabolic steroids & HRT steroids, as I am supposed to take these latter pills during menopause.

MS steroids are similar to the other two mentioned above in that over time they can cause liver failure, cellular damage, blood disorders caused by the body being chemically reprogrammed to push harder than is the natural pattern, in addition to depression and moodswings etc.

As mentioned in my first post - these are all new drugs and the long term (multiple generational) studies are not available yet. Short term we know they can all cause organ failure including liver and heart, and mood-swings and bloodflow disorders. Again this is for people who use any steroids regularly long-time. While the reprogramming they do differs from one group to the next, the fact you are introducing a synthetic chemical into the body to change the natural patterns within that body, will inevitably have longterm serious effects on the organs in that body - in some cases life-saving and also harmful. The risk is worth it if it keeps you alive, which is not why bodybuilders take anabolics.

Also withdrawal symptoms reported by bodybuilders who quit anabolics are remarkably similar to MS patients who quit MS drugs to go alternative (such as myself) and to menopausal women who couldn't cope with steroidic HRT regimens and went onto natural Hrt instead, withdrawal effects such as serious depression, fever, skin disorders and physical pain.

Imo of these three groups anabolics are the most dangerous as they are considered a recreational lifestyle product and people take them by choice not out of necessity, They have also been researched less than medically administered steroids.

Edited May 28, 2012 by Yunla

[DP25]

So this Guy openly admits to take Illegal Drugs in Thailand on a daily Basis.

Quite Clever ...

Maybe someone should tell him that Steroids are Illegal in Thailand since a couple of years..

Do you have a source that these are illegal? I thought they were legal. Pretty much anything is legal here as long as it doesn't get you high or can be used to make drugs that get you high. Hence them cracking down on cold medicine recently.

Trust me they are illegal.

Not everything you can buy here in Thailand over the Counter of a pharmacy is legal for you to consume, sell etc.

For example

The drug dealer, who normally sold her drugs online, was caught red-handed on her first time distributing drugs in person, selling 10 boxes of illegal steroids – all worth approximately 31,000 Baht.

Tourist Police Division (located at Supachalasai Stadium), Police Captain Peerapat Paromwut Deputy Investigating Officer stated that the arrest of 29-year-old Ms. Penprakai Tieng-ngok has occurred at Ekkamai Bus Station. The police discovered that this bus stop was a meeting point of a drug suspect, who has been distributing Steroids to Thai and foreign clients via the Internet. The police carried out a sting operation accordingly.

After interrogation, the suspect confessed that this was her first time dealing the drugs in person. She worked for Mrs. Ya – owner of a drug store in South Pattaya. The suspect’s delivery payment was 2,000 Baht.

The suspect was a former winner of 2010 Asian body builder and fitness competition, under 164 cm category, in Singapore.

The suspect was charged with distribution of illegal drugs – sentenced to 5 years and fined 10,000 Baht. Police continued their questioning.

That article isn't very convincing. Even if some are illegal that doesn't mean that they are all illegal. Selling drugs without a license is illegal as well so that could have been the reason for her arrest, or she could have been selling something that broke a patent that was being protected. People can get arrested for selling copies even if the original is legal. And your article isn't very detailed, she could have been arrested for selling them over the internet, Thailand doesn't allow people to sell drugs over the internet to foreign countries. It is illegal to export drugs without a license even if you can buy them legally over the counter in Thailand. That's why you don't see a lot of online pharmacies based in Thailand anymore, the US government pressured them to close them down years ago.

[Shurup]

Nonsence... for the most part.

Four words one of which spelled wrong, could you explain why my post is nonsense please. Or were you simply trolling. I suspect the latter - if you had anything to say re: my post you would have said so.

I actually have got primary-progressive, late stage multiple-sclerosis with a side-order of seizures. I was born with MS and have been exposed to steroids all my life from doctors who offer me every single new MS steroid on the market, all of which cause massive side effects & often worsening of health. And those are medical-grade steroids, clinical grade & controlled. Not like the commercial or street steroids which are high dose and unregulated & are therefor far more dangerous than medical steroids prescribed for ailments.

I made the adult decision to avoid steroid-therapy and take only epilepsy drugs for my seizures. Steroids affect the nervous system, blood-brain barrier, many internal organs & of course the brain & personality.

I have a friend back in the Uk who was hooked on steroids for years which he started while working nightclub doorman. He gave up because of erratic moodswings & changes to his earlier happy personality. He said the come-down from stopping using them made him angry and suicidally depressed, a similar problem to many stimulant type subtstances.

As other posters have rightly said, millions of bodybuilders work out and have beautiful strong bodies without using steroid drugs.

My original post was just my way of countering the OP incase there are some impressionable young people reading this and thinking "he says he feels great and looks great" etc. I would offer them the known scientific truths instead.

Edit // don't know what happened but half of my reply didn't post.

Let's not be p®icky on my spelling, I don't go over and correct my posts once they are typed in and ready.

I didn't feel like even start going into explanations as your original post seemed like of someone studying on a subject from the newspapers. Just look at your comment about meeting one of those guys in the dark alley when he comes off. It's laughable and shows you don't know what you're saying. You make it sound like they are the same as those hursh drugs junkies when they try to come off. Google the low testosterone symptoms, those guys are not agressive at all but the complete opposite. If a guy did his homework BEFORE starting and comes off properly, there will be no crash as his body function will be restored by the end of the cycle.

As Buchholz pointed out, what you take is not the same type of steroid as BBs take.

Go to medical forum and search for the topics on Testosterone where myself and some other members posted a great deal of info, I don't feel like repeating everything over here.

Edited May 28, 2012 by Shurup

[h90]

Sure why not. I never advise people to use. I'm training drug free too. But I believe there should be a choice and those scare tactics are counter productive.

Look at the discussions about narcotics...Marihuana, Heroin, Cocaine, Amphetamines and LSD will be discussed as there wouldn't be any difference between them.....

[robblok]

Sure why not. I never advise people to use. I'm training drug free too. But I believe there should be a choice and those scare tactics are counter productive.

Look at the discussions about narcotics...Marihuana, Heroin, Cocaine, Amphetamines and LSD will be discussed as there wouldn't be any difference between them.....

I know same thing and there I'm also for freedom of choice.

For me the risks are not worth the gains. The risks are manageable depending on your use. But people are talking like all the stuff is the same and the risks are the same.

Its not, but like in many topics you can have an opinion but no knowledge. (not talking about anyone specific)

I never advise anyone to start on steroids. If they want I won't say yes or no. Their choice.

[Shurup]

With respect, Yunla, the differentiation between corticosteroids (which is what I presume you've been prescribed for your MS) and anabolic steroids (what the body builders take) are that they are different birds altogether.

I sincerely extend my best wishes to you and best of luck in your continuing battle against that dreadful ailment.

Hi and thankyou for your well-wishes.

I know some of the differences between different steroid groups, but I was pointing out that even legal prescription life-saving steroids have massive side effects. I did a lot of background reading on synthetic steroids in general, including anabolic steroids & HRT steroids, as I am supposed to take these latter pills during menopause.

MS steroids are similar to the other two mentioned above in that over time they can cause liver failure, cellular damage, blood disorders caused by the body being chemically reprogrammed to push harder than is the natural pattern, in addition to depression and moodswings etc.

As mentioned in my first post - these are all new drugs and the long term (multiple generational) studies are not available yet. Short term we know they can all cause organ failure including liver and heart, and mood-swings and bloodflow disorders. Again this is for people who use any steroids regularly long-time. While the reprogramming they do differs from one group to the next, the fact you are introducing a synthetic chemical into the body to change the natural patterns within that body, will inevitably have longterm serious effects on the organs in that body - in some cases life-saving and also harmful. The risk is worth it if it keeps you alive, which is not why bodybuilders take anabolics.

Also withdrawal symptoms reported by bodybuilders who quit anabolics are remarkably similar to MS patients who quit MS drugs to go alternative (such as myself) and to menopausal women who couldn't cope with steroidic HRT regimens and went onto natural Hrt instead, withdrawal effects such as serious depression, fever, skin disorders and physical pain.

Imo of these three groups anabolics are the most dangerous as they are considered a recreational lifestyle product and people take them by choice not out of necessity, They have also been researched less than medically administered steroids.

I started training when i was 15 years old, but 18 i felt i need some booster as muscle was not growing anymore. So to go to the next level, i started to gear up at the age of 18, i did that on/off for 3 years.

I felt great and looked pretty good also, HOWEVER gains do not come easy, no matter how much steroids you take, muscles do not just grow while you sleeping.

I had to train even harder, sleep the right amounts, eat properly and in regime, etc etc etc

At the age of 22 i suffered my first mild heart attack, at 23 tumors in kidney, gained hair etc etc, naturally i stopped taking steroids but kept training.

Age 30, both my rotator cuffs in shoulder ripped, had to have surgery, now mid 30's more and more problems popping up

You will find that guys who are on steroids do not talk, but do have many health issues related to steroid taking.

Yes mentally you feel happy and strong, however the rest of the body starts to fail sooner or later.

I did train with pro body builders, like Mr Australia, Mr NSW, Mr Universe(runner up) and watching them over the years, everyone gets crippled with some health issues.

All in all, unless you want to be a pro and compete, i would not advise to even try it, as it is mentally addictive

Sorry to hear about your troubles but how do you know the stroids caused all those you mentioned?

At 27 I was diagnosed with bone tumour, was on the cratches for a year, my natural T production came to a halt... Were those caused by steroids? I don't know, except I didn't touch the stuff before that. I say shit happens and nobody is insured against something like that.

Of course if you spent decades in teh gym working hard, your body would wear out faster even if you're all natural. I know plenty of examples. One of my female friends was a competing natural BB. Years later and she went for her knee surgery a few times already as she couldn't even walk without taking painkillers...

[robblok]

I started training when i was 15 years old, but 18 i felt i need some booster as muscle was not growing anymore. So to go to the next level, i started to gear up at the age of 18, i did that on/off for 3 years.

I felt great and looked pretty good also, HOWEVER gains do not come easy, no matter how much steroids you take, muscles do not just grow while you sleeping.

I had to train even harder, sleep the right amounts, eat properly and in regime, etc etc etc

At the age of 22 i suffered my first mild heart attack, at 23 tumors in kidney, gained hair etc etc, naturally i stopped taking steroids but kept training.

Age 30, both my rotator cuffs in shoulder ripped, had to have surgery, now mid 30's more and more problems popping up

You will find that guys who are on steroids do not talk, but do have many health issues related to steroid taking.

Yes mentally you feel happy and strong, however the rest of the body starts to fail sooner or later.

I did train with pro body builders, like Mr Australia, Mr NSW, Mr Universe(runner up) and watching them over the years, everyone gets crippled with some health issues.

All in all, unless you want to be a pro and compete, i would not advise to even try it, as it is mentally addictive

Out of curiosity how many cycles did you do per year. What did you do ?

I have done dianabol when I was young (stupid and uninformed). I have done test 500 mg a week for 8 weeks and pct. a couple of years back.

No health issues ever. Though everyone injures himself during sports if you sport enough. I had some minor injuries that all went away in time.

[Ferangled]

While without doubt dabbling in anything that poses any risk of turning your nuts into shrivelled empty dust sacks and induces internal organ failure is clearly inadvisable I think the bigger issue is being missed. Why do so many young men feel the need to supplement their masculinity by body building in the first place? Is it through trying to conform to some distorted media induced image of man or perhaps increased masculinity in modern females has triggered some sort of macho defence mechanism in young men?!

What people often ignore is that steroids aside, carrying more body mass than your genes intended is inherently dangerous - whether you're simply obese from a bad diet and a lack of exercise or puffed up from protein supplements and repetitive weight lifting, you're putting unnecessary strain on your internal organs. Clearly there's a point at which a controlled diet and exercise stops being beneficial and starts being dangerous.

Now it seems muscles are fast becoming fashion accessories, with steroid abuse and cosmetic surgery becoming the mainstream short cuts to achieving the desired results. In my book when general fitness or strength/ stamina building is no longer the motivation it's pure vanity... really ironic given the desired "macho" appearance! I love the relevance of the sponsors, more advertisements of body building supplements than you can shake a stick at, well done TV!

Edited May 28, 2012 by Ferangled

[h90]

Sure why not. I never advise people to use. I'm training drug free too. But I believe there should be a choice and those scare tactics are counter productive.

Look at the discussions about narcotics...Marihuana, Heroin, Cocaine, Amphetamines and LSD will be discussed as there wouldn't be any difference between them.....

I know same thing and there I'm also for freedom of choice.

For me the risks are not worth the gains. The risks are manageable depending on your use. But people are talking like all the stuff is the same and the risks are the same.

Its not, but like in many topics you can have an opinion but no knowledge. (not talking about anyone specific)

I never advise anyone to start on steroids. If they want I won't say yes or no. Their choice.

Or the same thing from another side:

Who has, the right to tell me (or anyone else) what I am allowed to do with my own body??

And where should it end? Will I go in jail, if I eat two pieces of cake, which is without doubt not healthy??

On narcotics someone may argue that the user are addicted and can not decide on themself, but steroids aren't addictive....

[phl]

I started training when i was 15 years old, but 18 i felt i need some booster as muscle was not growing anymore. So to go to the next level, i started to gear up at the age of 18, i did that on/off for 3 years.

I felt great and looked pretty good also, HOWEVER gains do not come easy, no matter how much steroids you take, muscles do not just grow while you sleeping.

I had to train even harder, sleep the right amounts, eat properly and in regime, etc etc etc

At the age of 22 i suffered my first mild heart attack, at 23 tumors in kidney, gained hair etc etc, naturally i stopped taking steroids but kept training.

Age 30, both my rotator cuffs in shoulder ripped, had to have surgery, now mid 30's more and more problems popping up

You will find that guys who are on steroids do not talk, but do have many health issues related to steroid taking.

Yes mentally you feel happy and strong, however the rest of the body starts to fail sooner or later.

I did train with pro body builders, like Mr Australia, Mr NSW, Mr Universe(runner up) and watching them over the years, everyone gets crippled with some health issues.

All in all, unless you want to be a pro and compete, i would not advise to even try it, as it is mentally addictive

Out of curiosity how many cycles did you do per year. What did you do ?

I have done dianabol when I was young (stupid and uninformed). I have done test 500 mg a week for 8 weeks and pct. a couple of years back.

No health issues ever. Though everyone injures himself during sports if you sport enough. I had some minor injuries that all went away in time.

Ohhhh, deca, stena, testo, dynabol, sastanon,cambuterol just to name the few(excuse the spelling)

Sorry now i do not recall the amount of cycles, but was always on something, coming off one and going onto the next one, also stacking.

Over all, i can not say i did much, as my training partner was doing 4 times of what i was.

He went bold, both knees operated, huge tumor in the stomach(can not be removed as it is too big) 1 vein removed removed( the one running from testicles down to the foot)the vein info i may be calling it the wrong names, but something was removed that runs from testicles to the foot

I am not mentioning the minor injury's but while been on it, was going hard, so 10 years later, rotator cuff in both shoulders ripped, had surgery's on both, as a result of surgery's lost movement in both hands(unsure if due to surgery going wrong or just the injury itself)

Did loose my sex drive when was younger, but eventually it returned

Edited May 28, 2012 by phl

[Ferangled]

Sure why not. I never advise people to use. I'm training drug free too. But I believe there should be a choice and those scare tactics are counter productive.

Look at the discussions about narcotics...Marihuana, Heroin, Cocaine, Amphetamines and LSD will be discussed as there wouldn't be any difference between them.....

I know same thing and there I'm also for freedom of choice.

For me the risks are not worth the gains. The risks are manageable depending on your use. But people are talking like all the stuff is the same and the risks are the same.

Its not, but like in many topics you can have an opinion but no knowledge. (not talking about anyone specific)

I never advise anyone to start on steroids. If they want I won't say yes or no. Their choice.

Or the same thing from another side:

Who has, the right to tell me (or anyone else) what I am allowed to do with my own body??

And where should it end? Will I go in jail, if I eat two pieces of cake, which is without doubt not healthy??

On narcotics someone may argue that the user are addicted and can not decide on themself, but steroids aren't addictive....

I suggest you research you chosen subject matter before comment; they can be highly addictive, with abusers reporting similar withdrawal symptoms to what we would associate with heroin withdrawal - cold sweats, stomach cramps, chronic depression etc.

The fact is that most steroids have been subjected to far less medical study than more mainstream recreational drugs and long term effects are not fully known. What is clear is that the majority of steroid abusers are not in a position to make any informed judgement as to what are safe levels of dosage etc although many believe they are and in turn effect others negatively by passing these misconceptions on to others.

Personally I fully support your views that individuals should have the right to chose for themselves what substances they partake in, providing that no-one's taking anything that will adversely effect other people. Some might see increased aggression and capacity to injure others relevant to that and on balance I'd have to say I see marijuana as a more socially responsible drug than steroids!

[robblok]

I started training when i was 15 years old, but 18 i felt i need some booster as muscle was not growing anymore. So to go to the next level, i started to gear up at the age of 18, i did that on/off for 3 years.

I felt great and looked pretty good also, HOWEVER gains do not come easy, no matter how much steroids you take, muscles do not just grow while you sleeping.

I had to train even harder, sleep the right amounts, eat properly and in regime, etc etc etc

At the age of 22 i suffered my first mild heart attack, at 23 tumors in kidney, gained hair etc etc, naturally i stopped taking steroids but kept training.

Age 30, both my rotator cuffs in shoulder ripped, had to have surgery, now mid 30's more and more problems popping up

You will find that guys who are on steroids do not talk, but do have many health issues related to steroid taking.

Yes mentally you feel happy and strong, however the rest of the body starts to fail sooner or later.

I did train with pro body builders, like Mr Australia, Mr NSW, Mr Universe(runner up) and watching them over the years, everyone gets crippled with some health issues.

All in all, unless you want to be a pro and compete, i would not advise to even try it, as it is mentally addictive

Out of curiosity how many cycles did you do per year. What did you do ?

I have done dianabol when I was young (stupid and uninformed). I have done test 500 mg a week for 8 weeks and pct. a couple of years back.

No health issues ever. Though everyone injures himself during sports if you sport enough. I had some minor injuries that all went away in time.

Ohhhh, deca, stena, testo, dynabol, sastanon,cambuterol just to name the few(excuse the spelling)

Sorry now i do not recall the amount of cycles, but was always on something, coming off one and going onto the next one, also stacking.

Over all, i can not say i did much, as my training partner was doing 4 times of what i was.

He went bold, both knees operated, huge tumor in the stomach(can not be removed as it is too big) 1 vein removed removed( the one running from testicles down to the foot)the vein info i may be calling it the wrong names, but something was removed that runs from testicles to the foot

I am not mentioning the minor injury's but while been on it, was going hard, so 10 years later, rotator cuff in both shoulders ripped, had surgery's on both, as a result of surgery's lost movement in both hands(unsure if due to surgery going wrong or just the injury itself)

Did loose my sex drive when was younger, but eventually it returned

Ok that is pretty heavy, and just as I thought dangerous. There is always a difference between " normal " use and abuse.

Anyway most guys that I know who used kept to rules like time on is time off. Of course there are always exceptions.

I'm training natural now but have experienced steroids and read enough to form an opinion about it.

My opinion is that mild use say one or two times a year with moderate amounts is ok. Heavy use is not.

But even though I think it's ok I won't use as I don't have the need for it now. I'm satisfied as is. I want progress but not at all cost.

[phl]

I started training when i was 15 years old, but 18 i felt i need some booster as muscle was not growing anymore. So to go to the next level, i started to gear up at the age of 18, i did that on/off for 3 years.

I felt great and looked pretty good also, HOWEVER gains do not come easy, no matter how much steroids you take, muscles do not just grow while you sleeping.

I had to train even harder, sleep the right amounts, eat properly and in regime, etc etc etc

At the age of 22 i suffered my first mild heart attack, at 23 tumors in kidney, gained hair etc etc, naturally i stopped taking steroids but kept training.

Age 30, both my rotator cuffs in shoulder ripped, had to have surgery, now mid 30's more and more problems popping up

You will find that guys who are on steroids do not talk, but do have many health issues related to steroid taking.

Yes mentally you feel happy and strong, however the rest of the body starts to fail sooner or later.

I did train with pro body builders, like Mr Australia, Mr NSW, Mr Universe(runner up) and watching them over the years, everyone gets crippled with some health issues.

All in all, unless you want to be a pro and compete, i would not advise to even try it, as it is mentally addictive

Out of curiosity how many cycles did you do per year. What did you do ?

I have done dianabol when I was young (stupid and uninformed). I have done test 500 mg a week for 8 weeks and pct. a couple of years back.

No health issues ever. Though everyone injures himself during sports if you sport enough. I had some minor injuries that all went away in time.

Ohhhh, deca, stena, testo, dynabol, sastanon,cambuterol just to name the few(excuse the spelling)

Sorry now i do not recall the amount of cycles, but was always on something, coming off one and going onto the next one, also stacking.

Over all, i can not say i did much, as my training partner was doing 4 times of what i was.

He went bold, both knees operated, huge tumor in the stomach(can not be removed as it is too big) 1 vein removed removed( the one running from testicles down to the foot)the vein info i may be calling it the wrong names, but something was removed that runs from testicles to the foot

I am not mentioning the minor injury's but while been on it, was going hard, so 10 years later, rotator cuff in both shoulders ripped, had surgery's on both, as a result of surgery's lost movement in both hands(unsure if due to surgery going wrong or just the injury itself)

Did loose my sex drive when was younger, but eventually it returned

Ok that is pretty heavy, and just as I thought dangerous. There is always a difference between " normal " use and abuse.

Anyway most guys that I know who used kept to rules like time on is time off. Of course there are always exceptions.

I'm training natural now but have experienced steroids and read enough to form an opinion about it.

My opinion is that mild use say one or two times a year with moderate amounts is ok. Heavy use is not.

But even though I think it's ok I won't use as I don't have the need for it now. I'm satisfied as is. I want progress but not at all cost.

In theory you are spot on, in reality we all have different body and tolerance levels. what appears harmless to some, will really do some damage to another.

Some guys i trained with, have been using roids for decades and never had any issues.

Of course moderation is the key to be as safe as possible, but the problem i found and do see now(little too late) is it is addictive because you do want to keep lean and do want to keep the mass and do like the feel and strength, so many guys just keep on using.

At one stage i had a record for shoulder lifts, great feeling to see others watching you when you train and the photo on the gym wall, but 10 years later, not such a great feeling when have difficulty to "wipe" your own backside-lol

MY training partner was a monster when it came to leg press and squats,, he loved the attention of everyone watching and having the machine stacked to the max, an extra bar plus me on top, and now can hardly move around.

[Shurup]

... I see marijuana as a more socially responsible drug than steroids!

Especially when you puff in public (second hand smoke) or drive / operate the machinery (intoxication)...

Sounds like someone else needs to catch up on their homework...

[h90]

I suggest you research you chosen subject matter before comment; they can be highly addictive, with abusers reporting similar withdrawal symptoms to what we would associate with heroin withdrawal - cold sweats, stomach cramps, chronic depression etc.

The fact is that most steroids have been subjected to far less medical study than more mainstream recreational drugs and long term effects are not fully known. What is clear is that the majority of steroid abusers are not in a position to make any informed judgement as to what are safe levels of dosage etc although many believe they are and in turn effect others negatively by passing these misconceptions on to others.

Personally I fully support your views that individuals should have the right to chose for themselves what substances they partake in, providing that no-one's taking anything that will adversely effect other people. Some might see increased aggression and capacity to injure others relevant to that and on balance I'd have to say I see marijuana as a more socially responsible drug than steroids!

after how long of use in which amounts???

At heavy use even Aspirin and Paracetamol are addictive.

I know a lot people who took steroids when they were young: zero addictions

I know a couple who took heavy drugs, they are all watching the grass growing now....But from root side of the grass....

[robblok]

Out of curiosity how many cycles did you do per year. What did you do ?

I have done dianabol when I was young (stupid and uninformed). I have done test 500 mg a week for 8 weeks and pct. a couple of years back.

No health issues ever. Though everyone injures himself during sports if you sport enough. I had some minor injuries that all went away in time.

Ohhhh, deca, stena, testo, dynabol, sastanon,cambuterol just to name the few(excuse the spelling)

Sorry now i do not recall the amount of cycles, but was always on something, coming off one and going onto the next one, also stacking.

Over all, i can not say i did much, as my training partner was doing 4 times of what i was.

He went bold, both knees operated, huge tumor in the stomach(can not be removed as it is too big) 1 vein removed removed( the one running from testicles down to the foot)the vein info i may be calling it the wrong names, but something was removed that runs from testicles to the foot

I am not mentioning the minor injury's but while been on it, was going hard, so 10 years later, rotator cuff in both shoulders ripped, had surgery's on both, as a result of surgery's lost movement in both hands(unsure if due to surgery going wrong or just the injury itself)

Did loose my sex drive when was younger, but eventually it returned

Ok that is pretty heavy, and just as I thought dangerous. There is always a difference between " normal " use and abuse.

Anyway most guys that I know who used kept to rules like time on is time off. Of course there are always exceptions.

I'm training natural now but have experienced steroids and read enough to form an opinion about it.

My opinion is that mild use say one or two times a year with moderate amounts is ok. Heavy use is not.

But even though I think it's ok I won't use as I don't have the need for it now. I'm satisfied as is. I want progress but not at all cost.

In theory you are spot on, in reality we all have different body and tolerance levels. what appears harmless to some, will really do some damage to another.

Some guys i trained with, have been using roids for decades and never had any issues.

Of course moderation is the key to be as safe as possible, but the problem i found and do see now(little too late) is it is addictive because you do want to keep lean and do want to keep the mass and do like the feel and strength, so many guys just keep on using.

At one stage i had a record for shoulder lifts, great feeling to see others watching you when you train and the photo on the gym wall, but 10 years later, not such a great feeling when have difficulty to "wipe" your own backside-lol

MY training partner was a monster when it came to leg press and squats,, he loved the attention of everyone watching and having the machine stacked to the max, an extra bar plus me on top, and now can hardly move around.

That is the same thing with many other drugs, you got people who can handle it responsibility and you got those who can't. Too bad the ones who can always have to suffer because of those who cannot.

I do hear what your saying im leaning out now and my lifts are going down. I don't like it but on the other hand i like getting lean. You can't have it all.

[Shurup]

With respect, Yunla, the differentiation between corticosteroids (which is what I presume you've been prescribed for your MS) and anabolic steroids (what the body builders take) are that they are different birds altogether.

I sincerely extend my best wishes to you and best of luck in your continuing battle against that dreadful ailment.

Hi and thankyou for your well-wishes.

I know some of the differences between different steroid groups, but I was pointing out that even legal prescription life-saving steroids have massive side effects. I did a lot of background reading on synthetic steroids in general, including anabolic steroids & HRT steroids, as I am supposed to take these latter pills during menopause.

MS steroids are similar to the other two mentioned above in that over time they can cause liver failure, cellular damage, blood disorders caused by the body being chemically reprogrammed to push harder than is the natural pattern, in addition to depression and moodswings etc.

As mentioned in my first post - these are all new drugs and the long term (multiple generational) studies are not available yet. Short term we know they can all cause organ failure including liver and heart, and mood-swings and bloodflow disorders. Again this is for people who use any steroids regularly long-time. While the reprogramming they do differs from one group to the next, the fact you are introducing a synthetic chemical into the body to change the natural patterns within that body, will inevitably have longterm serious effects on the organs in that body - in some cases life-saving and also harmful. The risk is worth it if it keeps you alive, which is not why bodybuilders take anabolics.

Also withdrawal symptoms reported by bodybuilders who quit anabolics are remarkably similar to MS patients who quit MS drugs to go alternative (such as myself) and to menopausal women who couldn't cope with steroidic HRT regimens and went onto natural Hrt instead, withdrawal effects such as serious depression, fever, skin disorders and physical pain.

Imo of these three groups anabolics are the most dangerous as they are considered a recreational lifestyle product and people take them by choice not out of necessity, They have also been researched less than medically administered steroids.

Seeing as you're female, I've got to ask: what do you know about the birth control (BC) pills? I bet you were on them at some point of your life, but did you know it's also classified as a synthetic steroid? Did you know the BC pills are more harmful than the injectable steroid testosterone in amounts similar to those in BC pills? What makes the BC pills good and testosterone bad? Only the fact that testosterone can be abused and BC pills not and that automatically doesn't make all steroid users bad people. The way I see it, girls take BC pills for the recreational lifestyle and not out of necessity.

[Yunla]

Edit // don't know what happened but half of my reply didn't post.

Let's not be p®icky on my spelling, I don't go over and correct my posts once they are typed in and ready.

I didn't feel like even start going into explanations as your original post seemed like of someone studying on a subject from the newspapers. Just look at your comment about meeting one of those guys in the dark alley when he comes off. It's laughable and shows you don't know what you're saying. You make it sound like they are the same as those hursh drugs junkies when they try to come off. Google the low testosterone symptoms, those guys are not agressive at all but the complete opposite. If a guy did his homework BEFORE starting and comes off properly, there will be no crash as his body function will be restored by the end of the cycle.

As Buchholz pointed out, what you take is not the same type of steroid as BBs take.

Go to medical forum and search for the topics on Testosterone where myself and some other members posted a great deal of info, I don't feel like repeating everything over here.

Re; the dark alley thing, its just an expression. Personally I don't want to meet *anyone* in a dark alley regardless of how nice they are. I've heard many people talk about this withdrawal problem, including my nightclub bouncer friend, of people coming off anabolics who had 'rage episodes' during withdrawal. I'm sure you could read stories of it online if you had the time to.

Re; different steroids, as I mentioned already, anabolics, HRT, corticosteroids, and asthma steroid inhalers all have a well documented 'blunt instrument' profile among users, i.e. people taking them report invasive side-effects caused by powerful synthetic chemicals disrupting the natural equilibrium of the body. I wasn't saying that all steroids make your muscles go big or control MS-attack phases. But the actual effect of adding these strong augmenting chemicals to the body have side-effects.

My friend takes asthma steroid inhaler and swears she would never go *near* the stuff if it wasn't to keep her alive. I felt the same about my corticosteroids that I stopped taking in the 90s. Millions of women say the same about HRT steroids. The side effects are very similar. I put a great deal of faith in herbal medicine, plants that have been used by humans for tens of thousands years, selected by trial and error from the environment etc. They don't have the blunt instrument profile of invasive synthetics like steroids. My point was really that people planning to take anabolics by choice should note that all the other steroid-using groups take steroids out of necessity & with extreme reluctance because the side effects are real.

Re; anabolics pushing your body too hard, on a purely physical level,

http://www.bbc.co.uk...health-18119177

this is story about an athlete (not a steroid user) wearing out his knees by training too hard. Doctors say that walking & swimming and cycling, all in moderation, are the best ways to keep fit, and that pushing yourself with excess strenous excercise leads to major joint problems in early life.

Edited May 28, 2012 by Yunla

[Yunla]

Seeing as you're female, I've got to ask: what do you know about the birth control (BC) pills? I bet you were on them at some point of your life, but did you know it's also classified as a synthetic steroid? Did you know the BC pills are more harmful than the injectable steroid testosterone in amounts similar to those in BC pills? What makes the BC pills good and testosterone bad? Only the fact that testosterone can be abused and BC pills not and that automatically doesn't make all steroid users bad people. The way I see it, girls take BC pills for the recreational lifestyle and not out of necessity.

Birth control pills are not good. You said they are good. I never said they are. They have the same problems as HRT pills and for much the same reasons. You are making many assumptions about me and my lifestyle which are incorrect. I never took bc or hrt. I am a long-term believer in natural medicine, teetotalism and 'waiting for the right person' etc. I'm not in the target group for bc pills at all.

Re testosterone etc. I wish you good fortune, whatever hormones or drugs you want to take, its none of my business. I'm not trying to spoil your fun or anyone elses. I just think that people should know the risks of tinkering around with their physiology using strong synthetics.

For me it stems from I have primary-progressive MS, which as doctors learned recently is the only form that doesn't even benefit from MS-steroids at all. But anyway the symptoms are like an omni-allergy where I am hypersensitive to chemicals, food, anything really. It has made me do a lot of background reading on the products that are around in the everyday environment including abused substances.

Edited May 28, 2012 by Yunla

[Shurup]

You like to mention words synthetic and side-effects. Synthetic means not occurring naturally but chemically synthetic testosterone (for example) is exactly the same thing as a non synthetic testosterone. A body will not see the difference and there will be no side-effects IF (!!!) taken in moderate amounts (as in the case of HRT). If a guy was loosing hair being natural, he would keep loosing hair on steroids and he will loose it faster if he abuses them. All the side effects are predictable and preventable and only depend on the dosage. Moderation is the key word - which was already mentioned by robblok and few other members.

[Shurup]

Seeing as you're female, I've got to ask: what do you know about the birth control (BC) pills? I bet you were on them at some point of your life, but did you know it's also classified as a synthetic steroid? Did you know the BC pills are more harmful than the injectable steroid testosterone in amounts similar to those in BC pills? What makes the BC pills good and testosterone bad? Only the fact that testosterone can be abused and BC pills not and that automatically doesn't make all steroid users bad people. The way I see it, girls take BC pills for the recreational lifestyle and not out of necessity.

Birth control pills are not good. You said they are good. I never said they are. They have the same problems as HRT pills and for much the same reasons. You are making many assumptions about me and my lifestyle which are incorrect. I never took bc or hrt. I am a long-term believer in natural medicine, teetotalism and 'waiting for the right person' etc. I'm not in the target group for bc pills at all.

Re testosterone etc. I wish you good fortune, whatever hormones or drugs you want to take, its none of my business. I'm not trying to spoil your fun or anyone elses. I just think that people should know the risks of tinkering around with their physiology using strong synthetics.

For me it stems from I have primary-progressive MS, which as doctors learned recently is the only form that doesn't even benefit from MS-steroids at all. But anyway the symptoms are like an omni-allergy where I am hypersensitive to chemicals, food, anything really. It has made me do a lot of background reading on the products that are around in the everyday environment including abused substances.

Apologies if my assumptions were wrong, you are an exception from many others, however it doesn't change the fact that BC are the same class of drug although all the attackers of steroid users are absolutely fine with millions of girls being hooked on BC pills and it never get mentioned. I can apply the same ideology to BC users and say that it's not natural, dangerous (in fact more dangerous than injectable steroids) and addictive - they don't want to come the pills either. Also BC pill is taken for recreational usage and not a necessity.

[Yunla]

You like to mention words synthetic and side-effects. Synthetic means not occurring naturally but chemically synthetic testosterone (for example) is exactly the same thing as a non synthetic testosterone. A body will not see the difference and there will be no side-effects IF (!!!) taken in moderate amounts (as in the case of HRT). If a guy was loosing hair being natural, he would keep loosing hair on steroids and he will loose it faster if he abuses them. All the side effects are predictable and preventable and only depend on the dosage. Moderation is the key word - which was already mentioned by robblok and few other members.

http://www.naturodoc...create_problems

This from a Doctor advising women who can not take any more synthetic steroid hormones.

"Synthetic hormones last too long in the body. They are "biologically persistent," in that they bind to hormone receptors far more tightly than normal human hormones. The natural hormonal feedback loops, which we barely understand, are often disrupted because the synthetics don't fit into the body's natural biochemical system the way the original “real” hormones do.

Let's put this into a computer analogy. For many reasons (stress, toxics, missing nutrients, environmental hazards, etc.) the hormone system becomes fragmented with millions of one-way orders that are supposed to have return messages. While these do have partial activity, they don't complete and eliminate themselves on schedule, so there's no way to "defragment" the system. The result is the loss of proper interplay between the reproductive, adrenal, and thyroid systems. These become more inefficient because of this fragmentation, which feels like hell for a person progressing through stress, to shock, and possibly to system crash (from exhaustion to collapse). This process of accumulating hormonal stress would first appear as something that is emotional and mental in nature. The brain systems and emotional centers are far more sensitive than what would appear in laboratory chemistry tests or diagnostic imaging. This has meant that many women have been dismissed as "psychological cases," with the over-prescribing of anti-depressives or anti-anxiety medications adding their complex drug activities to the physical stress these patients originally came in with."

Edited May 28, 2012 by Yunla

[Shurup]

This is sort of off-topic and I don't want to get into that discussion but just being a doctor doesn't necesserely make everything he said to be truth. There are many doctors and everyone has their own opinion. My family doctor advise me against HRT ignoring all the symptoms that I suffered from due to insufficient T and saying medical practitioners don't recomment it. Another doctor recommended I tried HRT and it made me (almost) normal again.

[dalsobrook]

Wow, 21 and can't wait to screw up his body for the rest of his life. I guess when his testicles begin to shrink and he has to take more dope for gynecomastia, better known as b&tch t*t, and all of the hair on his big head falls out, he might rethink how he spends his vacation time.

Edited May 29, 2012 by metisdead
Bold font removed, do not use bold font when posting!

[how241]

Look at all the damage done by alcohol and tobacco. They cause far more destruction to people's lives.''

Nice to see the classic drug-addict line used so freely. "Their drug is more harmful than mine".

Insert here also alcoholic saying at least I'm not a junkie. Meth-head saying at least I don't drink. Etc.Etc. Lovely.

Note also his use of "they make me feel good" & so that makes it okay. Same line as used by morphinists since the dawn of time.

He is correct that it is nobody's business except his own what drugs he abuses, until the day those drugs turn him psychotic & he unscrews some total strangers head like a jar-top. Some drugs are regulated not only to protect the users health but to protect society at large from that user. Steroids & growth hormones are regulated for BOTH reasons.

Synthetic steroids are incredibly harmful to the human body, brain & personality. Unless you are taking medical steroids for example for asthma, and it is essential to keep you alive, they should be avoided. Even in essential medical use, steroids are last resort & discouraged because of inflaming or generating personality disorders. Like all modern drugs of the last 100 years the long term effects can still only be guessed at, and doctors are continuously updating and changing their stance based on developing feedback. Drugs are launched with a fanfare then discreetly taken off the market a few years later when the bodies start piling up - this happens all the time.

All drugs (and foods) affect the human brain, and affect behaviour, to a lesser or greater degree. Steroids are 'uppers' and need to be maintained to stay 'up', to avoid the colossal crushing 'low'. You don't want to run into somebody coming down off long-term steroid abuse in a dark alley.

Secondly, black market drugs are cut with brick dust, laundry liquid and anything going. Toxins build up in the human liver and brain cause overload, again with potential psychotic effects. I get offered fake epilepsy drugs all the time in Thailand at 20% normal price, but I value my life so I only buy from hospital shop.

Nonsence... for the most part.

+1....There are many steriods and I think the OP was confused.

[Fgis]

Prepare for a crackdown on steroids !!!

Who is stupid enough to tell such things to even more stupid journalists ?

[kiniyow]

Just another Buffed up loose Cannon walking around in Pattaya~~

[LucidLucifer]

Nah, sorry, don't buy your argument.

I tend to trust the advice the UK governments gives me on health matters and the information I get from my primary news sources e.g. BBC (TV and on-line) and The Guardian newspaper.

The government is just as likely to spread self-serving propaganda as anyone else. The BBC will just tow the government line, and The Guardian will say whatever will sell the most newspapers.