Have The Long Neck Women Gone Back To Burma?

[jackr]

I heard recently that the long necks have been shipped back to Burma, but maybe some had been left in Mae Hong Son. Can anyone confirm this and if they have any info that they will likely be moved. I have some friends coming to Chiang Mai in a few weeks and they only fancy going on to Mae Hong Son if the long necks are there.

cheers

[davidgtr]

Have not been to MHS for a couple of weeks, but as far as I know the situation is normal.

The MHS tourism industry if making so much money out of the long necks, that I can't ever see the authorities "letting them go."

But if there aren't any in MHS, dont despair (sad isn't it), but there are long neck "villages" in at least 3 or 4 other places in the North, all "fully imported" (abducted / detained?) from Burma / MHS.

1 south & west of Chiang Dao.

2. roughly east of Mae Chan

3. north of Tha Ton

4. west of Mae Chan (I think)

So there's more than enough to go round & keep the Thai hill tribe tourism industry thriving. Sad isn't it?

[chownah]

I made a reply but it got lost in the ozone so here's a summary: It is child abuse and exploitation of women. They don't do it out of a sense of culture...they do it for money. Someone pays them to do it ....they are like circus freaks....it is mutilation and leaves them crippled. I will not go to any village that has them since I don't want to support or look at this mutilation....it is usually child abuse since parents do this to their daughters to support the family.

[jackr]

Have not been to MHS for a couple of weeks, but as far as I know the situation is normal.

The MHS tourism industry if making so much money out of the long necks, that I can't ever see the authorities "letting them go."

But if there aren't any in MHS, dont despair (sad isn't it), but there are long neck "villages" in at least 3 or 4 other places in the North, all "fully imported" (abducted / detained?) from Burma / MHS.

1  south & west of Chiang Dao.

2. roughly east of Mae Chan

3. north of Tha Ton

4. west of Mae Chan (I think)

So there's more than enough to go round & keep the Thai hill tribe tourism industry thriving. Sad isn't it?

Cheers

[ThaiPauly]

I made a reply but it got  lost in the ozone so here's a summary:  It is child abuse and exploitation of women.  They don't do it out of a sense of culture...they do it for money.  Someone pays them to do it ....they are like circus freaks....it is mutilation and leaves them crippled.  I will not go to any village that has them since I don't want to support or look at this mutilation....it is usually child abuse since parents do this to their daughters to support the family.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I see your point Chon, but everyone's gotta eat

[sabaijai]

I made a reply but it got  lost in the ozone so here's a summary:  It is child abuse and exploitation of women.  They don't do it out of a sense of culture...they do it for money.  Someone pays them to do it ....they are like circus freaks....it is mutilation and leaves them crippled.  I will not go to any village that has them since I don't want to support or look at this mutilation....it is usually child abuse since parents do this to their daughters to support the family.

I know that's a common farang belief, but it's not a view the Padaung themselves necessarily share.

[chownah]

I made a reply but it got  lost in the ozone so here's a summary:  It is child abuse and exploitation of women.  They don't do it out of a sense of culture...they do it for money.  Someone pays them to do it ....they are like circus freaks....it is mutilation and leaves them crippled.  I will not go to any village that has them since I don't want to support or look at this mutilation....it is usually child abuse since parents do this to their daughters to support the family.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I know that's a common farang belief, but it's not a view the Padaung themselves necessarily share.

I agree. Culture is a difficult issue. In some cultures all twins born are killed...its seen as sad that they were born and a good thing that they are killed. I guess we shouldn't interfere with this cultural practice.

I have not indicated that there should be a witch hunt to burn the mutilators.....if people stop supporthing this activity with their money then we will see how many people continue with it. How many women are there that have this deformity who did it out of purly cultural reasons? My guess is that it is almost zero if not actually. It is a crippling practice. It leaves people less able to physically function. It makes them more easy to exploit. If you think that its justified then go there and give them some money and encourage them to continue to cripple their children because its so much fun for you to go look at these circus freaks.....or....stop supporting it and if it is a genuine expression of a culture then it will persist.

Edited January 5, 2006 by chownah

[Nickerelastic]

I made a reply but it got lost in the ozone so here's a summary: It is child abuse and exploitation of women. They don't do it out of a sense of culture...they do it for money. Someone pays them to do it ....they are like circus freaks....it is mutilation and leaves them crippled. I will not go to any village that has them since I don't want to support or look at this mutilation....it is usually child abuse since parents do this to their daughters to support the family.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I see your point Chon, but everyone's gotta eat

Does that make exploitation of another human being all right, ok, acceptable?

l

[davidgtr]

I made a reply but it got lost in the ozone so here's a summary: It is child abuse and exploitation of women. They don't do it out of a sense of culture...they do it for money. Someone pays them to do it ....they are like circus freaks....it is mutilation and leaves them crippled. I will not go to any village that has them since I don't want to support or look at this mutilation....it is usually child abuse since parents do this to their daughters to support the family.

Chownah

That's a very interesting viewpoint, especially for someone who from what I can gather has never been to a long neck village. So how exactly do they "mutilate," "cripple" and abuse their children.

[Norman d'Plume]

The Paduang villages were set up by a Thai businessman as a money-making venture. Families being imported from Burma to stock his "zoo".

They do, however also wear their rings at home in their burmese villages where no tourists pay to visit them.

Exploitation? I suppose so, however they do have a better life, access to education and medicine etc. and massively higher income in their exploited state than they have when they return home. (The "zoo" exhibits rotate over time, coming and going to their home villages.)

[sabaijai]

The Paduang villages were set up by a Thai businessman as a money-making venture. Families being imported from Burma to stock his "zoo".

False, they were set up by the Padaung refugees themselves, and the funds go to 1) village support, and 2) Karenni Liberation Army.

They do, however also wear their rings at home in their burmese villages where no tourists pay to visit them.

True. But they're not rings. They're one-piece coils, and they can be removed (and often are removed) for cleaning, medical treatment etc.

Exploitation? I suppose so, however they do have a better life, access to education and medicine etc. and massively higher income in their exploited state than they have when they return home.

Also true. When interviewed, the elders of the community (those born in Myanmar, rather than in the refugee camps) emphasise they are relatively happy with life in Thailand.

[LadyinRed]

I've been to the one in MHS a few months ago. Very sad. It's really like a circus. If they have lived like a community then I would have enjoyed my visit. The moment we arrived on the long tail they quickly displayed their wares and started weaving. The atmosphere was, at best, stoic.

The ladies all speak good English though.

Kinda sad that they are 'stuck' in Thailand. I hear they are not allowed to leave the village without permission from Thailand.

Edited January 5, 2006 by LadyinRed

[sabaijai]

Kinda sad that they are 'stuck' in Thailand. I hear they are not allowed to leave the village without permission from Thailand.

Yes, same policy as for all refugee camps in Thailand, since the inhabitants don't have papers.

[davidgtr]

I've been to the one in MHS a few months ago. Very sad. It's really like a circus. If they have lived like a community then I would have enjoyed my visit. The moment we arrived on the long tail they quickly displayed their wares and started weaving. The atmosphere was, at best, stoic.

The ladies all speak good English though.

Kinda sad that they are 'stuck' in Thailand. I hear they are not allowed to leave the village without permission from Thailand.

There should be 3 long neck villages / camps in MHS for tourists to visit.

These are

1. Nai Soi.

2. Huay Sua Tao

3. Nam Phiang Din (Boat trip).

Yeah they are all a bit of a circus, & no doubt the whole situation will prick the conscience of any normal sensitive human being; but if you can speak Thai & communicate with the long necks then my experience has generally been good. They are real people, unfortunately trapped in a bit of a no win situation & are making the best of what they've got - "long necks” if you like. What else could they do with the limited skills they have?

If you can talk them, then what they have going in a safe stable environment in Thailand is probably better than what they had going back home, on the run, in Burma.

Agreed, its an exploitive situation, but I sometimes wonder who’s doing the exploiting - the tour operators, or the long necks dressing up for the tourists & taking their money. Stretch your imagination a bit further even & its almost a bit like being on social security / the dole, sitting around all day smiling, getting your picture taken & picking up a bit of money on the side. It’s boring & more than likely depressing and certainly not my kind of an enjoyable 9-5 job that’s for sure. Life as a refugee / or in a refugee camp sucks!

Anyone in a refugee camp has been / is being exploited. This should bother most people, but what do you reckon are the realistic alternatives for the long necks to make a living hanging out in their refugee camp, waiting to go home (& probably end up doing the same thing under the Burmese military?)

The way it is now, with the skills that they have, it could be considered that they are doing ok. If this is not good enough, then perhaps just send em back to Burma & end of the problem?

Unfortunately, more than likely they’ll always be exploited for their cultural attributes or continue to play pretty long necks to exploit tourists & pick up easy money. Once a long neck always a long neck? Or realistically, at least until they get an education & are qualified for city life & a job in the big smoke. What a terrible thought / life.

This is my bent view of the MHS long neck scene. Now exactly what is going on with the other long neck villages in North Thai I don’t know, but I suspect that it might not be quite as good as the nice MHS scene.

And now, if you cross over into Tachilek (Burma) from Mae Sai, they are offering trips to a long neck village near Tachilek. That’s another no win situation for the long necks I reckon, and it’s another terrible thought - once a long neck always a long neck, you gotta grab those tourist dollars while you can……………let’s be exploited & make easy money.

[silverhawk_usa]

After reading many of the views on the Padaung when I first came to Thailand (5 years ago), I too boycotted the villages. Finally, when in Mae Hong Song with a friend that wanted to go, I relented and thought I would check it out.

My friend and I sat and talked for a long time with a beautiful young lady who spoke amazingly good English. She explained of the problems and the benefits of her life. She felt they were much better off in Thailand than in Burma. She said they received an excellent education at the local school and it showed in her speech and her questions and interests. These were not your typical shallow questions or topics. She was interested in our incomes and we discussed pensions vs. investments, life in other countries, and other surprising topics that she was interested in knowing. She explained that as children they have a choice of whether or not to wear the rings, although I think at that young an age it is not really an informed decision, but she was comfortable with it. We laughed with some of her friends who were trying on “normal” clothing and saw how uncomfortable they looked and felt.

Sure they put on a bit of a show for tourists, but what attractions and villages in Thailand do not? She understood their plight in life and although things could be better, she was not depressed or pessimistic.

There will always be many sides to this but I think it is not fair to judge them by applying our Western values. If you have not visited and sat down and had an honest talk with them, you surely should not be forming rigid opinions and beliefs. They are an intelligent people getting by the best they can under the current political and social situations that are forced upon them. If one is to campaign for other living conditions, first start by asking them.

[jonik]

I would never want to see someone who did something like that to their body even if it is selfintented. Just ain't possible to live a normal life with those necks.

[p_brownstone]

In actual fact it’s not so much that the neck “stretches”, rather it is the bones of the upper chest which are crushed downwards into the body.

Patrick

[richard10365]

What is child abuse for one person is normal for another. In the village I live in it is common for the parents to encourage their children to go to Japan or other tourist attractions in Thailand to work the bars there or to marry someone from Japan (via a dating service) to help support the family.

I have even seen the dating service campaign in the street with loudspeakers and girls walking around passing out flyers. There are pleanty of large houses here to vouch for their business.

Sadly enough, there are pleanty of parentless children who lost their parents to HIV as a result of this business.

Not everyone gets into the university around here and work options are limited. It's a small village and only so many people can own the land around here. After that, your stuck earning 130 to 200 baht a day working on the farm.

What kind of house (to include the land) can you buy for that much money. What furnishings will you put inside? What clothes will you wear? What kind of food will you feed your family.

Most farangs living and working in Thailand have never had to live in these small village conditions and shouldn't be in a rush to criticize the means they choose to make their lives better.

These long neck women are making a living on their culture. Good for them.

[chownah]

What is child abuse for one person is normal for another. In the village I live in it is common for the parents to encourage their children to go to Japan or other tourist attractions in Thailand to work the bars there or to marry someone from Japan (via a dating service) to help support the family.

I have even seen the dating service campaign in the street with loudspeakers and girls walking around passing out flyers. There are pleanty of large houses here to vouch for their business.

Sadly enough, there are pleanty of parentless children who lost their parents to HIV as a result of this business.

Not everyone gets into the university around here and work options are limited. It's a small village and only so many people can own the land around here. After that, your stuck earning 130 to 200 baht a day working on the farm.

What kind of house (to include the land) can you buy for that much money. What furnishings will you put inside? What clothes will you wear? What kind of food will you feed your family.

Most farangs living and working in Thailand have never had to live in these small village conditions and shouldn't be in a rush to criticize the means they choose to make their lives better.

These long neck women are making a living on their culture. Good for them.

They inflict an irreversible deformity on their children.....I will not help to finance this type of activity.

[chuchok]

What is child abuse for one person is normal for another. In the village I live in it is common for the parents to encourage their children to go to Japan or other tourist attractions in Thailand to work the bars there or to marry someone from Japan (via a dating service) to help support the family.

I have even seen the dating service campaign in the street with loudspeakers and girls walking around passing out flyers. There are pleanty of large houses here to vouch for their business.

Sadly enough, there are pleanty of parentless children who lost their parents to HIV as a result of this business.

Not everyone gets into the university around here and work options are limited. It's a small village and only so many people can own the land around here. After that, your stuck earning 130 to 200 baht a day working on the farm.

What kind of house (to include the land) can you buy for that much money. What furnishings will you put inside? What clothes will you wear? What kind of food will you feed your family.

Most farangs living and working in Thailand have never had to live in these small village conditions and shouldn't be in a rush to criticize the means they choose to make their lives better.

These long neck women are making a living on their culture. Good for them.

They inflict an irreversible deformity on their children.....I will not help to finance this type of activity.

Witch is probably half as bad as the mental problems(deformity?) that "they" cause when they send young people to work in the sex industry.

[richard10365]

Chownah..... I bet you don't mind helping to finance those farm girls in Pattaya.

[sabaijai]

If you have not visited and sat down and had an honest talk with them, you surely should not be forming rigid opinions and beliefs.

Seems like a reasonable approach.

There are tribal peoples throughout the world who perform body modification according to custom. From what I can see, the particular modification the Padaung perform in no way hinders them from having a 'normal' life, in fact it enables them to live a normal Padaung life. There are no known health problems associated with this particular modification.

I don't know much about the subject of body modication but it can be both cultural and political. Here are some references I found on the Web:

Wikipedia

Wiki Padaung

In The Flesh

Maori whakairo

Body Mods through the Ages

[chownah]

Chownah..... I bet you don't mind helping to finance those farm girls in Pattaya.

They inflict an irreversible deformity on their children.....I will not help to finance this type of activity.

[jackr]

Chownah..... I bet you don't mind helping to finance those farm girls in Pattaya.

I will not help to finance this type of activity.

I wasn't asking you to, I was asking the forum if the village was still there.