Thailand Is Not Like China In Its Attitudes Toward Foreigners (Yet?)

[BigJohnnyBKK]

Link

I'm sure this is not a normal occurence in China - just an example of what can happen in some places under certain conditions - and would appreciate it the thread keeps its focus on the possibility that Thailand could become like this. I also recognize that things like this can happen on an individual basis here, but please don't bother posting "it's already like that here".

I think this occurring here is very unlikely, but possible if we continue to see more and more down-and-outer foreigners coming here - hanging on here once they've got themselves into that situation - outnumbering the relatively well-off.

Coupled with Thailand's accelerating growth so that in urban areas the average Thai is relatively wealthy, and they don't perceive a need to pander to the outside world seeking inbound investment.

Perhaps even taking steps to try to repair their international reputation by effectively cracking down on the open sex industry and passing laws making it more difficult for their women to hook up with foreigners, as with Burma and Cambodia, and actively working toward getting rid of foreigners here for that purpose.

Over the next say ten years, I'd put the odds at say 15% that things could go this way, perhaps not suddenly nor explicit/official but as a trend over time indirectly enforced.

[sirineou]

Is it possible ?

sure, anything is possible,

is it probable ?

This is difficult to predict, as there are so many variables.

but in the next 10 years I am willing to place the probability factor, closer to 1% than 15%

the 1% is so that the possibility remains open.

Having said all that, As western currencies decline in value, depleting the purchasing power of westerners, and the cost of living in Thailand increasing, I can see how the number of westerners living here might decrease on it's own.

Of course there is always the chance that Thais might read some of the negative posts about them in some forums, how, many westerners talk about them, and the negative attitude of some of us toward them. and I would not blame them if they chased us in the sea with pitchforks and knives.

Ps: I wonder (let's say in the interest of discussion) How Americans,(or for that matter any westerner) would react, if they read in a forum (as we read posts about Thais in a regular basis) ,Muslims,living in their country, describing them as "lazy" "stupid" "thief's" "whores"and other words that I cant bring my self to write.

Imagine how they will react toward them.

I think we better take stock of our selves, behave with more respect toward our hosts, or we could very well make the OP question a reality.

[cooked]

Prostitution is illegal in Thailand. If the Thais want to better their image abroad they should start with the problem of corruption which is at the root of a lot of evil stuff going on here.

You want to prevent Thai ladies from hooking up with foreigners? OH boy, wait until women's rights get on to that one.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

Ps: I wonder (let's say in the interest of discussion) How Americans,(or for that matter any westerner) would react, if they read in a forum (as we read posts about Thais in a regular basis) ,Muslims,living in their country, describing them as "lazy" "stupid" "thief's" "whores"and other words that I cant bring my self to write.

Imagine how they will react toward them.

I think we better take stock of our selves, behave with more respect toward our hosts, or we could very well make the OP question a reality.

Thanks for the feedback.

Actually Muslim American do often express radical opinions about the degeneracy of the mainstream culture of their country of residence. I think they're very much persecuted regardless of such expressions.

I reckon that other than on an individual basis, Thais don't much care what people say as long as it's not a famous person spouting in the media.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

Prostitution is illegal in Thailand. If the Thais want to better their image abroad they should start with the problem of corruption which is at the root of a lot of evil stuff going on here.

My perception is the mainstream international opinion is much more tolerant of generic corruption problems than the sex issue.

And of course the endemic corruption would be a much more difficult if not impossible problem to solve, whereas the tiny foreign-targeted segment of the sex industry here would be very easy to eliminate, and I daresay would be a very popular move with most Thais, as those making their living that way aren't generally respected.

Finally, if Thailand had a sensible legal and regulated sex industry here that wouldn't help their "brothel of the world" image problem even if it were totally free of corruption.

You want to prevent Thai ladies from hooking up with foreigners? OH boy, wait until women's rights get on to that one.

What feminists are you talking about, the Thais?

If you mean internationally, I've found most feminists don't approach human rights issues in an even-handed way. I haven't heard any criticising the fact that a foreigner over 50 isn't allowed to marry a Cambodian (of any age), nor the fact that a Burmese woman isn't allowed to marry a foreigner at all.

I think other than the few sex-positive faminists, their anger is usually directed against men as predators, repressive exploiters etc; they'd probably be quite accepting of anything ostensibly targeted at halting sex tourism and "mail-order" brides.

[DP25]

I doubt it, at least not nearly to the same extent. Chinese are far more sensitive and insecure about foreigners because they suffered under so much oppression and humiliation from them, both from Europeans and Japanese. You'd see this kind of anti foreigner backlash in other Asian countries like Vietnam that was colonized and invaded by foreign powers before you'd see it in Thailand.

[StreetCowboy]

I did a quick straw poll round the other farangs drinking around me in Nana, and none of them saw the open sex trade as a problem for Thailand's reputation. In fact, if Japan's sex trade, or China's equally flourishing industry, were a little more accessible, they might attract more tourists.

What I think would stand thailand in good stead would be to differentiate between the illegal activiites that they want to continue, and those that they do not, and repeal laws against those activities that they want to continue, and enforce laws against those that they do not.

However, it is not something that I lose a great deal of sleep over...

SC

[BigJohnnyBKK]

I did a quick straw poll round the other farangs drinking around me in Nana, and none of them saw the open sex trade as a problem for Thailand's reputation. In fact, if Japan's sex trade, or China's equally flourishing industry, were a little more accessible, they might attract more tourists.

What I think would stand thailand in good stead would be to differentiate between the illegal activiites that they want to continue, and those that they do not, and repeal laws against those activities that they want to continue, and enforce laws against those that they do not.

IMO the proportion of Thais that don't mind their country being perceived that way and would actually want Thailand to have a clean and well-regulated sex industry would be very very small, especially among those that run the place.

[brit1984]

China is getting tough on ILLEGAL immigrants; seems like a sensible policy to me. A similar campaign could benefit many other countries, including Thailand.

Sent from iPhone; please forgive any typos or violations of forum rules

[F1fanatic]

Is it possible ?

sure, anything is possible,

is it probable ?

This is difficult to predict, as there are so many variables.

but in the next 10 years I am willing to place the probability factor, closer to 1% than 15%

the 1% is so that the possibility remains open.

Having said all that, As western currencies decline in value, depleting the purchasing power of westerners, and the cost of living in Thailand increasing, I can see how the number of westerners living here might decrease on it's own.

Of course there is always the chance that Thais might read some of the negative posts about them in some forums, how, many westerners talk about them, and the negative attitude of some of us toward them. and I would not blame them if they chased us in the sea with pitchforks and knives.

Ps: I wonder (let's say in the interest of discussion) How Americans,(or for that matter any westerner) would react, if they read in a forum (as we read posts about Thais in a regular basis) ,Muslims,living in their country, describing them as "lazy" "stupid" "thief's" "whores"and other words that I cant bring my self to write.

Imagine how they will react toward them.

I think we better take stock of our selves, behave with more respect toward our hosts, or we could very well make the OP question a reality.

Try reading the UK newspaper forums... They are FULL of hatred against immigrants. It used to be mainly the Moslems and Eastern Europeans, but a recent case (somewhere in the North of England) where a group of Asians 'groomed' and raped local young girls (from poor backgrounds) has led to one hell of a lot of Asian immigrant bashing - they believe all Asians are looking for young girls to sell off as prostitutes!

Edit - And, as far as I can see the UK is far less racist than many other European countries. i.e. BNP receive v little support.

[bendix]

China regularly swings from periods of greatly admiring foreigners and soliciting them, to demonising them. This is nothing new. There is a view - expressed in the Economist this week - that the Chinese authorities have leveraged this attempted rape incident and a similar incident involving a Russian cellist who got into an abusive exchange with a local on the metro system last week to launch the 100 day campaign to detract attention away from the current negative media China is getting on a variety of fronts, most notably the blind dissident issue, a faltering economy, the Chongqing murder and the Bo incident and even the disputes with Philippines over some crappy islands.

I was in Beijing last week. I met lots of expats who welcome the crackdown because, in their view, China is becoming over-run with low-life foreigners and it is ruining the reputation of people just trying to make a legitimate living. Does that sound familiar.

There is a difference between an anti-foreigner crusade and a bonafide attempt to get rid of illegal foreigners. It's every country's sovereign right to enforce its immigration rules.

I just wish Thailand did it more often.

[F1fanatic]

China is getting tough on ILLEGAL immigrants; seems like a sensible policy to me. A similar campaign could benefit many other countries, including Thailand.

Sent from iPhone; please forgive any typos or violations of forum rules

Unfortunately, the media publicising a 'get tough' approach on illegal immigrants tends to reflect that the local population aren't happy about immigrants anyway - otherwise the politicians wouldn't bother making the point, they'd just do it.

[bendix]

Is it possible ?

sure, anything is possible,

is it probable ?

This is difficult to predict, as there are so many variables.

but in the next 10 years I am willing to place the probability factor, closer to 1% than 15%

the 1% is so that the possibility remains open.

Having said all that, As western currencies decline in value, depleting the purchasing power of westerners, and the cost of living in Thailand increasing, I can see how the number of westerners living here might decrease on it's own.

Of course there is always the chance that Thais might read some of the negative posts about them in some forums, how, many westerners talk about them, and the negative attitude of some of us toward them. and I would not blame them if they chased us in the sea with pitchforks and knives.

Ps: I wonder (let's say in the interest of discussion) How Americans,(or for that matter any westerner) would react, if they read in a forum (as we read posts about Thais in a regular basis) ,Muslims,living in their country, describing them as "lazy" "stupid" "thief's" "whores"and other words that I cant bring my self to write.

Imagine how they will react toward them.

I think we better take stock of our selves, behave with more respect toward our hosts, or we could very well make the OP question a reality.

Try reading the UK newspaper forums... They are FULL of hatred against immigrants. It used to be mainly the Moslems and Eastern Europeans, but a recent case (somewhere in the North of England) where a group of Asians 'groomed' and raped local young girls (from poor backgrounds) has led to one hell of a lot of Asian immigrant bashing - they believe all Asians are looking for young girls to sell off as prostitutes!

Edit - And, as far as I can see the UK is far less racist than many other European countries. i.e. BNP receive v little support.

Good post.

You ignore a source of anti-immigrant and anti-foreigner sentiment that is even closer to our hearts - TV itself. We have threads today talking about the filthy habits of the natives, for example. We regularly get diatribes from little Englanders moaning about immigrants invading their country, totally oblivious to the irony that they themselves are guests in this country.

[F1fanatic]

Sorry to be so vocal on this subject - but it can happen anywhere.

Much as I (generally) love living here, I'm always aware that if the economy goes seriously pear-shaped and people are suffering badly - the politicians are likely to appeal to the lowest common denominator - its all the foreigners' fault... Its happened time and time again around the world in different ways.

[elliss]

on my first visit to thailand , on the inside of the door , in my hotel room , was a notice,

that prostitution is illegal in china , etc etc. it frightened the <deleted> out of me .

however , after meeting a few guys , over a beer or 3 ,

i was told it was a load of bolluks .

so,,,,, i bought a lady , for the night .

at hotel reception , my err, cough cough, guest , had to present her ID ,

which she collected the folowing morning , on her departure .

prostitution is a way of life in china , just under a different name , entertainment.

nee ow

[elliss]

on my first visit to china , on the inside of the door , in my hotel room , was a notice,

that prostitution is illegal in china , etc etc. it frightened the <deleted> out of me .

however , after meeting a few guys , over a beer or 3 ,

i was told it was a load of bolluks .

so,,,,, i bought a lady , for the night .

at hotel reception , my err, cough cough, guest , had to present her ID ,

which she collected the folowing morning , on her departure .

prostitution is a way of life in china , just under a different name , entertainment.

nee ow

[sirineou]

Is it possible ?

sure, anything is possible,

is it probable ?

This is difficult to predict, as there are so many variables.

but in the next 10 years I am willing to place the probability factor, closer to 1% than 15%

the 1% is so that the possibility remains open.

Having said all that, As western currencies decline in value, depleting the purchasing power of westerners, and the cost of living in Thailand increasing, I can see how the number of westerners living here might decrease on it's own.

Of course there is always the chance that Thais might read some of the negative posts about them in some forums, how, many westerners talk about them, and the negative attitude of some of us toward them. and I would not blame them if they chased us in the sea with pitchforks and knives.

Ps: I wonder (let's say in the interest of discussion) How Americans,(or for that matter any westerner) would react, if they read in a forum (as we read posts about Thais in a regular basis) ,Muslims,living in their country, describing them as "lazy" "stupid" "thief's" "whores"and other words that I cant bring my self to write.

Imagine how they will react toward them.

I think we better take stock of our selves, behave with more respect toward our hosts, or we could very well make the OP question a reality.

Try reading the UK newspaper forums... They are FULL of hatred against immigrants. It used to be mainly the Moslems and Eastern Europeans, but a recent case (somewhere in the North of England) where a group of Asians 'groomed' and raped local young girls (from poor backgrounds) has led to one hell of a lot of Asian immigrant bashing - they believe all Asians are looking for young girls to sell off as prostitutes!

Edit - And, as far as I can see the UK is far less racist than many other European countries. i.e. BNP receive v little support.

exactly my point

As far as Muslims are concerned, I said " in the interest of discussion", and used them as an example because of current relationships, it can easily be any immigrant nationality in any country..

The point is

If we don't behave our selves, , could we find our selves in a similar situation also?

[brit1984]

China is getting tough on ILLEGAL immigrants; seems like a sensible policy to me. A similar campaign could benefit many other countries, including Thailand.

Sent from iPhone; please forgive any typos or violations of forum rules

Unfortunately, the media publicising a 'get tough' approach on illegal immigrants tends to reflect that the local population aren't happy about immigrants anyway - otherwise the politicians wouldn't bother making the point, they'd just do it.

Indeed, I agree some (stupid) people are unable to grasp the difference between illegal and legal immigrants.

However, the (worthless) views of such people does not imply that being tough on illegal immigrants is unwise.

Cracking down on illegal immigrants is sensible and benefits both the natives and the legal immigrants.

I would welcome a similar campaign by the Thai government.

Sent from iPhone; please forgive any typos or violations of forum rules

[F1fanatic]

Is it possible ?

sure, anything is possible,

is it probable ?

This is difficult to predict, as there are so many variables.

but in the next 10 years I am willing to place the probability factor, closer to 1% than 15%

the 1% is so that the possibility remains open.

Having said all that, As western currencies decline in value, depleting the purchasing power of westerners, and the cost of living in Thailand increasing, I can see how the number of westerners living here might decrease on it's own.

Of course there is always the chance that Thais might read some of the negative posts about them in some forums, how, many westerners talk about them, and the negative attitude of some of us toward them. and I would not blame them if they chased us in the sea with pitchforks and knives.

Ps: I wonder (let's say in the interest of discussion) How Americans,(or for that matter any westerner) would react, if they read in a forum (as we read posts about Thais in a regular basis) ,Muslims,living in their country, describing them as "lazy" "stupid" "thief's" "whores"and other words that I cant bring my self to write.

Imagine how they will react toward them.

I think we better take stock of our selves, behave with more respect toward our hosts, or we could very well make the OP question a reality.

Try reading the UK newspaper forums... They are FULL of hatred against immigrants. It used to be mainly the Moslems and Eastern Europeans, but a recent case (somewhere in the North of England) where a group of Asians 'groomed' and raped local young girls (from poor backgrounds) has led to one hell of a lot of Asian immigrant bashing - they believe all Asians are looking for young girls to sell off as prostitutes!

Edit - And, as far as I can see the UK is far less racist than many other European countries. i.e. BNP receive v little support.

exactly my point

As far as Muslims are concerned, I said " in the interest of discussion", and used them as an example because of current relationships, it can easily be any immigrant nationality in any country..

The point is

If we don't behave our selves, , could we find our selves in a similar situation also?

I don't think its got anything to do with whether we behave ourselves (although those that forget we are guests in a foreign country certainly don't help!) - its more whether those in power need someone to blame.... and foreigners are always a useful scapegoat.

[sirineou]

Is it possible ?

sure, anything is possible,

is it probable ?

This is difficult to predict, as there are so many variables.

but in the next 10 years I am willing to place the probability factor, closer to 1% than 15%

the 1% is so that the possibility remains open.

Having said all that, As western currencies decline in value, depleting the purchasing power of westerners, and the cost of living in Thailand increasing, I can see how the number of westerners living here might decrease on it's own.

Of course there is always the chance that Thais might read some of the negative posts about them in some forums, how, many westerners talk about them, and the negative attitude of some of us toward them. and I would not blame them if they chased us in the sea with pitchforks and knives.

Ps: I wonder (let's say in the interest of discussion) How Americans,(or for that matter any westerner) would react, if they read in a forum (as we read posts about Thais in a regular basis) ,Muslims,living in their country, describing them as "lazy" "stupid" "thief's" "whores"and other words that I cant bring my self to write.

Imagine how they will react toward them.

I think we better take stock of our selves, behave with more respect toward our hosts, or we could very well make the OP question a reality.

Try reading the UK newspaper forums... They are FULL of hatred against immigrants. It used to be mainly the Moslems and Eastern Europeans, but a recent case (somewhere in the North of England) where a group of Asians 'groomed' and raped local young girls (from poor backgrounds) has led to one hell of a lot of Asian immigrant bashing - they believe all Asians are looking for young girls to sell off as prostitutes!

Edit - And, as far as I can see the UK is far less racist than many other European countries. i.e. BNP receive v little support.

exactly my point

As far as Muslims are concerned, I said " in the interest of discussion", and used them as an example because of current relationships, it can easily be any immigrant nationality in any country..

The point is

If we don't behave our selves, , could we find our selves in a similar situation also?

I don't think its got anything to do with whether we behave ourselves (although those that forget we are guests in a foreign country certainly don't help!) - its more whether those in power need someone to blame.... and foreigners are always a useful scapegoat.

I agree that politicians often use foreigners as scrape- goats to to distract from other issues.

But don't you think, the way we behave has anything to do with the way we are perceived by a local population.

Don't you think if Thais read posts in open expat forums describing them in derogatory terms,would be resentful of it?

and don't you think that such resentment, and the political pressure resulting from it, might help in formulating policies toward foreigners.

They say that " possession is 9/10 of the law" I say it is not possession but perception. You might posses innocence, but if a jury perceives you to be guilty, guess what? you are going to jail

We always need to be mindful of the kind of perceptions we cultivate.

[cooked]

Prostitution is illegal in Thailand. If the Thais want to better their image abroad they should start with the problem of corruption which is at the root of a lot of evil stuff going on here.

My perception is the mainstream international opinion is much more tolerant of generic corruption problems than the sex issue.

And of course the endemic corruption would be a much more difficult if not impossible problem to solve, whereas the tiny foreign-targeted segment of the sex industry here would be very easy to eliminate, and I daresay would be a very popular move with most Thais, as those making their living that way aren't generally respected.

Finally, if Thailand had a sensible legal and regulated sex industry here that wouldn't help their "brothel of the world" image problem even if it were totally free of corruption.

You want to prevent Thai ladies from hooking up with foreigners? OH boy, wait until women's rights get on to that one.

What feminists are you talking about, the Thais?

If you mean internationally, I've found most feminists don't approach human rights issues in an even-handed way. I haven't heard any criticising the fact that a foreigner over 50 isn't allowed to marry a Cambodian (of any age), nor the fact that a Burmese woman isn't allowed to marry a foreigner at all.

I think other than the few sex-positive faminists, their anger is usually directed against men as predators, repressive exploiters etc; they'd probably be quite accepting of anything ostensibly targeted at halting sex tourism and "mail-order" brides.

Yes, you make some good points. International financial managers are wary of investing in Thailand because TIT. Prostitution only exists because of corruption, applying the law correctly would shut down Nana Plaza and company very quickly. We so often get bogged down in petty arguments about 7/11 not selling beer at certain times etc when the root cause of so many things that annoy us is always the same. Take a step back.

[F1fanatic]

Sirineou - The 'average' Thai is not going to be reading this forum... but yes, those foreigners that behave badly will reinforce negative views about us.

Unlike some other posters here I think most (ordinary) Thais are racist generally, but make an exception for those foreigners they like. A bit like (generally)Westerners back at home really....

[sirineou]

Sirineou - The 'average' Thai is not going to be reading this forum... but yes, those foreigners that behave badly will reinforce negative views about us.

Unlike some other posters here I think most (ordinary) Thais are racist generally, but make an exception for those foreigners they like. A bit like (generally)Westerners back at home really....

a sensible reply on your part, and I am not disagreeing with it

what I am afraid is that an enterprising, unscrupulous, politician that wants to make a name for him/her self, and gain some political power, might use such negating posts, by taking them out of context, publishing them, and using them to galvanize, and enlarge his constituency base, in order to carry out his agenda,

with negative consequences toward foreigners.

[farang000999]

The foriegner was trying to rape the woman and got his ass kicked. That is not racism. You think they would have just let him go if he was Chinese? It is violent but honestly you will have the same thing happen to in many parts of the West as well. In the West, you will get arrested yourself for kicking someone's ass in this situation that is the only reason why it does not happen as frequently.

As for the other video posted: the dude was being a grade A douchebag with his feet up and deserved to be fired. Guess what, same thing, if he is Chinese and a video goes viral he will also be fired.

1 billion people in China. They are not racist. They are happy to have farang in their country. Be polite and not a dick head and you will be fine.

[StreetCowboy]

The foriegner was trying to rape the woman and got his ass kicked. That is not racism. You think they would have just let him go if he was Chinese? It is violent but honestly you will have the same thing happen to in many parts of the West as well. In the West, you will get arrested yourself for kicking someone's ass in this situation that is the only reason why it does not happen as frequently.

As for the other video posted: the dude was being a grade A douchebag with his feet up and deserved to be fired. Guess what, same thing, if he is Chinese and a video goes viral he will also be fired.

1 billion people in China. They are not racist. They are happy to have farang in their country. Be polite and not a dick head and you will be fine.

Oh no! He's swapped his saffron glasses for a pair of jade ones.

The argument is not about the incidents, but about the xenophobia that they aroused.

Had a Chinese gentleman received a kicking in the first instance described, woudl the Chinese have started a campaign persecuting the Chinese in their country?

SC

[farang000999]

Prostitution is illegal in Thailand. If the Thais want to better their image abroad they should start with the problem of corruption which is at the root of a lot of evil stuff going on here.

My perception is the mainstream international opinion is much more tolerant of generic corruption problems than the sex issue.

And of course the endemic corruption would be a much more difficult if not impossible problem to solve, whereas the tiny foreign-targeted segment of the sex industry here would be very easy to eliminate, and I daresay would be a very popular move with most Thais, as those making their living that way aren't generally respected.

Finally, if Thailand had a sensible legal and regulated sex industry here that wouldn't help their "brothel of the world" image problem even if it were totally free of corruption.

You want to prevent Thai ladies from hooking up with foreigners? OH boy, wait until women's rights get on to that one.

What feminists are you talking about, the Thais?

If you mean internationally, I've found most feminists don't approach human rights issues in an even-handed way. I haven't heard any criticising the fact that a foreigner over 50 isn't allowed to marry a Cambodian (of any age), nor the fact that a Burmese woman isn't allowed to marry a foreigner at all.

I think other than the few sex-positive faminists, their anger is usually directed against men as predators, repressive exploiters etc; they'd probably be quite accepting of anything ostensibly targeted at halting sex tourism and "mail-order" brides.

Yes, you make some good points. International financial managers are wary of investing in Thailand because TIT. Prostitution only exists because of corruption, applying the law correctly would shut down Nana Plaza and company very quickly. We so often get bogged down in petty arguments about 7/11 not selling beer at certain times etc when the root cause of so many things that annoy us is always the same. Take a step back.

NO, it exists because of economics, poverty.

[farang000999]

"I heard about the crackdown when I was in the US and then remembered that I hadn't registered with the local police, as required after moving to my new apartment. I really don't want to get into trouble," he said. "I know when the Chinese authorities use the term 'crackdown', they mean business."

At a counter with a sign reading "Temporary residence registration for foreigners", a policewoman took Jones' passport and checked that his visa was in order. She then entered his passport details and current address into the computer and printed out a police registration card within five minutes.

"Make sure you carry the card and your passport with you at all times for routine stop-and-checks," she said, handing over the card. "Also, you can show the card to the taxi driver to take you home when you're drunk." She wasn't joking.

Smart gal!

[farang000999]

The xenphobia was just one dude with a talk show who apologized. I think it is good that China intends to get rid of the trash and illegal foriegners, this will keep the image of the farang in the country. This wont happen here cause the Thais just dont give a shit. We are invisible to the upper class Thais and to the lower class Thais who earn 300b a day we are still heros.

[cooked]

"Yes, you make some good points. International financial managers are wary of investing in Thailand because TIT. Prostitution only exists because of corruption, applying the law correctly would shut down Nana Plaza and company very quickly. We so often get bogged down in petty arguments about 7/11 not selling beer at certain times etc when the root cause of so many things that annoy us is always the same. Take a step back." (my post)

NO, it exists because of economics, poverty.

oh dear, take a step back. Poverty is caused by rich people that want to get richer. I think your remarks are a little naive in believing that poverty is a god given curse on this country. The constant power struggle that has been going on since 1932 has destabilised the rule of law leading to rich pickings to the people in the right place.

Try http://www.forbes.com/2009/01/22/corruption-poverty-development-biz-corruption09-cx_mj_0122johnston.html

[chops]

Not many lowlife farang in China.