Manchester United

[StevieH]

seems odd to me that moyes would have spent a few seasons turning fellaini into this attacking beanpole target man to then sign him to play as a sitting midfielder. time will tell of course and he may use him like city use yaya, sitting early and then bombing up front when needed. but then that possibly credits moyes with a tactical imagination he's hereto rarely shown and also fellaini isn't in the same class of footballer as yaya. anyway, be interesting to watch developments like.

[SinglePot]

Well known fact. Safe managers recruit staff they know.

I hope Eto'o does a better job than Fellaini.

There again, Jose knows samba is a striker like.

[StevieH]

Well known fact. Safe managers recruit staff they know.

I hope Eto'o does a better job than Fellaini.

There again, Jose knows samba is a striker like.

oh granted, and i'm sure moyes knows more about fellaini's DM capabilities than i do. but when there was a rumour that united were going for daniele de rossi i thought 'oh bugger'. signing a player who has spent the past two years playing where rooney and kagawa do and then dropping him deeper? going to be interesting.

[alfieconn]

Whatever was said about Moyes, in the end he will be judged on results, he inherited a good team, so if there is significant regression then no supporter is going to be happy. I thought the last two performances have been poor, and the addition of Felliani will not necessarily improve some of the key weak areas.

Sure, judge him on results, but don't judge him on three results for crying out loud, judge him on the cumulative results of several seasons.

Yes, he inherited a good team, but let's be realistic, he didn't inherit a Barcelona that could win 90% of games at a stroll, he inherited a team that had been punching above its weight for quite a long time with hard graft and will-power, and a team that was and is ageing in certain areas. Who could have walked into the job after SAF stepped down and continued things seamlessly without any difficult spells? I don't think even SAF himself could have done that.

Just be a bit patient is all i'm saying, and try to desist from all the tabloid and ABU knee jerk "what a clown", "out of his depth", "doesn't know what he's doing" crap.

With 35 games to go I might suggest to its a bit early to write Moyes and the team off. I am still non plussed that United were able to win last season by 11 points. Anyone who has been following them for a lifetime would admit it was not the best team in the last decade but they pulled it off and whose to say they won't do it again. The failed time wasting pursuit of Fabregas didn't help but there must have been some encouragement from either player or agent otherwise they would have not tried. I have mixed feelings about Fellaini. Has been a thorn in United side when with Everton.His aerial presense wont hurt as we seem unable to convert anywhere near the number of crosses that come into the box. We've seen him play a number of positions with Everton, put him alongside Kagawa and Carrick and it might just be a good working partnership.The number of goals scored by United midfielders in recent years has been abysmal.

Are you saying that they are going to change their formation to accomodate him ?

[SinglePot]

Just punt it up the pitch and see if he can get his head on it.

Worked at Everton.

[alfieconn]

Some great points and good sense Rix.

I like the look of a Valencia Felliani Kagawa Carrick midfield with Rooney floating and RvP up front. Not sure how they'd work out the formation, maybe........

Valencia-Carrick-Felliani

Kagawa

Rooney

RvP

redrus

What, no Beverley wait till MrRed hears about this

[StevieH]

Just punt it up the pitch and see if he can get his head on it.

Worked at Everton.

to an extent. until teams figured out you just stick one of your defensive mids on his toes and pick off the second balls. could see moyes on sunday trying to do his pienaar/baines thing with young and evra but young just isn't that bright. if it had been kagawa there it might have worked. i don't know if translating everton tactics to man united is going to wash with the old trafford lot.

[redrus]

Some great points and good sense Rix.

I like the look of a Valencia Felliani Kagawa Carrick midfield with Rooney floating and RvP up front. Not sure how they'd work out the formation, maybe........

Valencia-Carrick-Felliani

Kagawa

Rooney

RvP

redrus

What, no Beverley wait till MrRed hears about this

Tom has a massive fight on his hands but, if we'd have got rid of Ando and Nani, his job would be easier and more secure. He's still only a young lad but, for a 1st team spot permanantly, time is not on his hands. I feel Moyes will not be half as lenient as SAF was with some of the chaff...!!

redrus

[StevieH]

Some great points and good sense Rix.

I like the look of a Valencia Felliani Kagawa Carrick midfield with Rooney floating and RvP up front. Not sure how they'd work out the formation, maybe........

Valencia-Carrick-Felliani

Kagawa

Rooney

RvP

redrus

What, no Beverley wait till MrRed hears about this

Tom has a massive fight on his hands but, if we'd have got rid of Ando and Nani, his job would be easier and more secure. He's still only a young lad but, for a 1st team spot permanantly, time is not on his hands. I feel Moyes will not be half as lenient as SAF was with some of the chaff...!!

redrus

felt like the opposite against us on sunday, rus. ferguson teams would have been busting a gut to make chances against us out of sheer fear of him. with moyes on the touchline on sunday united were ragged, undisciplined and lacking that fear of a bollocking that they have always had in previous seasons.

[redrus]

^

Steve mate, on quick, rash thought, I'd agree but no, I remember many many times United not turning up for games, sometimes against youz and sometimes against City, Arsenal and Chelsea. (and Souhampton)

Fergies gift was eaking out these results over a whole season. He used to frustrate the heck out of me sometimes with his crazy selections and, sometimes the lack of fight in the big games but, it was always in the second half of the season when we kicked in, we were never good at the start anyway.

redrus

[SinglePot]

Just punt it up the pitch and see if he can get his head on it.

Worked at Everton.

to an extent. until teams figured out you just stick one of your defensive mids on his toes and pick off the second balls. could see moyes on sunday trying to do his pienaar/baines thing with young and evra but young just isn't that bright. if it had been kagawa there it might have worked. i don't know if translating everton tactics to man united is going to wash with the old trafford lot.

Might work a treat here though:

Group A: Manchester United, Shakhtar Donetsk, Bayer Leverkusen, Real Sociedad

[Chicog]

Fellaini has been spotted on the M62 on his way to join his new teammates for training.

[YoungBrit]

Whatever was said about Moyes, in the end he will be judged on results, he inherited a good team, so if there is significant regression then no supporter is going to be happy. I thought the last two performances have been poor, and the addition of Felliani will not necessarily improve some of the key weak areas.

Sure, judge him on results, but don't judge him on three results for crying out loud, judge him on the cumulative results of several seasons.

Yes, he inherited a good team, but let's be realistic, he didn't inherit a Barcelona that could win 90% of games at a stroll, he inherited a team that had been punching above its weight for quite a long time with hard graft and will-power, and a team that was and is ageing in certain areas. Who could have walked into the job after SAF stepped down and continued things seamlessly without any difficult spells? I don't think even SAF himself could have done that.

Just be a bit patient is all i'm saying, and try to desist from all the tabloid and ABU knee jerk "what a clown", "out of his depth", "doesn't know what he's doing" crap.

With 35 games to go I might suggest to its a bit early to write Moyes and the team off. I am still non plussed that United were able to win last season by 11 points. Anyone who has been following them for a lifetime would admit it was not the best team in the last decade but they pulled it off and whose to say they won't do it again. The failed time wasting pursuit of Fabregas didn't help but there must have been some encouragement from either player or agent otherwise they would have not tried. I have mixed feelings about Fellaini. Has been a thorn in United side when with Everton.His aerial presense wont hurt as we seem unable to convert anywhere near the number of crosses that come into the box. We've seen him play a number of positions with Everton, put him alongside Kagawa and Carrick and it might just be a good working partnership.The number of goals scored by United midfielders in recent years has been abysmal.

Are you saying that they are going to change their formation to accomodate him ?

And Kagawa can't get near the bench let alone the first team at the moment. Any ideas why?

[redrus]

And Kagawa can't get near the bench let alone the first team at the moment. Any ideas why?

Yes, he's been injured and is not match ready, hence his demotion from subs bench to suit on Sunday.

redrus

[YoungBrit]

And Kagawa can't get near the bench let alone the first team at the moment. Any ideas why?

Yes, he's been injured and is not match ready, hence his demotion from subs bench to suit on Sunday.

redrus

That explains it, thanks.

[redrus]

And Kagawa can't get near the bench let alone the first team at the moment. Any ideas why?

Yes, he's been injured and is not match ready, hence his demotion from subs bench to suit on Sunday.

redrus

That explains it, thanks.

Its a tough one, he was injured last year too and didn't get a good enough run, now he's been unlucky over the summer and hasn't got back to it yet.

From press reports though he's determined to stay and fight for his place, (which really should be his anyway) (despite the #freeshinji #borussiadortmund #twitter campaign), which is all I want to hear. Too many reds joining too many bandwagons at the moment.

redrus

[redrus]

Press and fans way too harsh on Manchester United transfer business

soccersweep (Weblog) 19:48

The fans, the press and pundits alike seem to have universally agreed that Manchester United became a laughing stock as the window closed yesterday. With words like ‘shambles’ and ‘farce’ being bandied around freely, the professionalism of Ed Woodward and David Moyes was severely questioned, just a couple of months into the job.

Ok, Manchester United clearly didn’t get all of their targets and the part about 3 suited ‘imposters’ turning up to apparently negotiate a deal in Bilbao was strange, to say the least. But the knee-jerk reaction of the press and fans was surely the most bizarre aspect of the final day of the window.

This was a day when Arsenal were heralded as masters of the market for spending an exorbitant amount of cash on a player who Real Madrid didn’t want and Arsenal don’t need. With gaping holes in their defence and the desperate need for a striker and keeper, Arsenal fans and Wenger alike, seemed pleased as punch to simply get their hard-earned out of their account to buy yet another attacking midfielder – an attacking midfielder that Arsenal showed no official interest in throughout the window.

To us, this seems like a total scattergun approach to the transfer market, from a club and coach under serious pressure. Sure, there is always an argument that you should buy the best whenever they become available. Ozil is a very good player. But so is Santi Cazorla, Jack Wilshere, Aaron Ramsey and Theo Walcott. If Arsenal are well equipped anywhere in the squad, it’s in the attacking midfield slots.

But will this signing address the fundamental problems that Arsenal have had for the last 6 years? Ozil will undoubtedly make The Gunners more attractive on the ball but that was never their problem anyway. Will Ozil make Arsenal harder to play through? Will he add steel to the midfield or presence to the back 5?

The answer is no and it’s easy to argue that Manchester United signing Fellaini would have been a much more prudent signing for Wenger – the steely holding midfielder that they desperately need. A player who can also do a job up front and even provide cover for the defence.

Meanwhile David Moyes gets crucified for only buying Fellaini – a footballer that has clearly been in his transfer plans since he came to Manchester United. You might question the wisdom of signing the player – some, including soccersweep, have doubts as to his technical ability at the top level – but Moyes stuck to his plan. He wanted Fellaini, Baines and one other. He failed on two counts. But his plans were clear, from the outset, in terms of the areas he wanted to strengthen.

We understand that our readers will still question the methods of Ed Woodward in particular. But those who think that this window was a ‘shambles’ compared to Fergie’s reign have short memories. Until last summer, when Ferguson snared RvP, United’s transfer business had been highly questionable. Not only had they missed out on nearly all of their top targets for several years (Benzema, Villa, Alexis Sanchez and Lucas Moura to name but a few), but they had failed to sign a central midfielder of note since 2007 – an area of the team which was gasping for fresh blood.

Can you imagine the uproar if, for example, Moyes had sold Cristiano Ronaldo for £80m and only brought in Valencia, Obertan and Micheal Owen as replacements? Of Course Sir Alex earned and deserved the patience of the fans. But to compare Moyes’ transfer activity at Manchester United so unfavouraly with Fergie’s is to view the whole situation through impossibly rose-tinted of glasses. It’s short-sighted in the extreme.

Moyes will be the first to admit some disappointment at not getting all the players that he wanted this summer. But he has already arguably filled a hole that Fergie failed to sort out for years – to bring in a proven goal scoring midfielder. Of course, many think that Fellaini is not the type that Manchester United need. The clamour, since The Ginger Prince retired, has been for a ball playing midfielder.

But may I remind United fans that they begged Fergie to buy a combative midfielder for years after Roy Keane left the club. Perhaps, in Fellaini, Moyes has killed two birds with one stone. Yes, a more creative midfielder will improve the team further in time. But Moyes has bought goals, dynamism and steel into a midfield that looked god awful against Liverpool at the weekend.

In summary, Moyes and Woodward deserve more credit and more time to continue the Manchester United evolution. Moyes hasn’t created United’s midfield problems. He has inherited problems which Fergie himself couldn’t solve.

redrus

[rijit]

And Kagawa can't get near the bench let alone the first team at the moment. Any ideas why?

Yes, he's been injured and is not match ready, hence his demotion from subs bench to suit on Sunday.

redrus

Dont really se him as a moyes type of player, do you?

[rixalex]

You make some good points rixalex.

A team that was punching above its weight for quite a long time...

Aging in certain areas......

Given these facts, surely stability, stability, stability, in the safe hands of David Moyes is exactly what is NOT needed.

Transition and growth in the hands of a proven top manager whose prepared to take some calculated risks looks like a better recipe for success?

One minute you are advocating the benefits of calculated risks, the next you are advocating only going for a top manager who is already proven.

[SinglePot]

You make some good points rixalex.

A team that was punching above its weight for quite a long time...

Aging in certain areas......

Given these facts, surely stability, stability, stability, in the safe hands of David Moyes is exactly what is NOT needed.

Transition and growth in the hands of a proven top manager whose prepared to take some calculated risks looks like a better recipe for success?

One minute you are advocating the benefits of calculated risks, the next you are advocating only going for a top manager who is already proven.

I' m advocating a brave manager who is prepared to shake things up a bit and maybe even make some decisions that others see as controversial. A Mourhino or a Guardiola for example. David Moyes is very steady.

It's interesting to see that despite United winning the EPL by 11 points, many people are now being somewhat critical of the team that SAF left behind.

Does it need a tweak, or does it need something more? Maybe Moyes and Woodward will get it spot on.

I would be concerned about Moyes ability to attract the top players, and I would be concerned about his technical nouse when it comes to playing in the CL. No doubt he is a good man.

Maybe if Rooney had been available the Liverpool game would have been very different and confidence at Old Trafford would be great.

Only 3 games in, but I think the Chavs and other teams would be very disappointed if their transfer windows were as disappointing as united's has been.

Wenger's getting stick also as you well know.

[uptheos]

Rooney's head injury like something from a horror movie, claims England pal Walcott

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2410455/Wayne-Rooneys-head-injury-horror-movie-says-Theo-Walcott.html

[R123]

Manager out of his depth:

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/336543/Robin-van-Persie-and-David-Moyes-hit-skids

[rixalex]

You make some good points rixalex.

A team that was punching above its weight for quite a long time...

Aging in certain areas......

Given these facts, surely stability, stability, stability, in the safe hands of David Moyes is exactly what is NOT needed.

Transition and growth in the hands of a proven top manager whose prepared to take some calculated risks looks like a better recipe for success?

One minute you are advocating the benefits of calculated risks, the next you are advocating only going for a top manager who is already proven.

I' m advocating a brave manager who is prepared to shake things up a bit and maybe even make some decisions that others see as controversial. A Mourhino or a Guardiola for example. David Moyes is very steady.

It's interesting to see that despite United winning the EPL by 11 points, many people are now being somewhat critical of the team that SAF left behind.

Does it need a tweak, or does it need something more? Maybe Moyes and Woodward will get it spot on.

I would be concerned about Moyes ability to attract the top players, and I would be concerned about his technical nouse when it comes to playing in the CL. No doubt he is a good man.

Maybe if Rooney had been available the Liverpool game would have been very different and confidence at Old Trafford would be great.

Only 3 games in, but I think the Chavs and other teams would be very disappointed if their transfer windows were as disappointing as united's has been.

Wenger's getting stick also as you well know.

I understood the point you were making about brave managers. I was simply making a broader point about a club taking calculated risks. I think United have taken one in appointing Moyes. Appointing Mourinho or Guardiola would have been less of a risk as they are more proven. Whether or not the risk pays off, we'll find out.

On the subject of brave managers and your examples, Mourinho in some ways can be very brave, in his player selection and substitutions for example, but in other ways isn't brave at all, getting a goal ahead and closing up shop for example. Either way, he wouldn't have been right for United because he only ever stays at a club for a few seasons and United need someone with a long term vision.

With regards Guardiola, not sure how he can really be defined as being a brave manager yet. On what grounds would you say that he is? Because he had Barcelona playing attacking football? How could he not with those players at his disposal?

[SinglePot]

Appointing Moyes was maintenance of stability. Moyes was a safe bet not a calculated risk.

Stability, stability, stability.

The risk for Moyes is to what extent he is prepared to impose himself on the Man U team instead of being a caretaker of what SAF left for him.

[nong38]

I am new here, can anyone tell me, when we need a quality midfielder why Bobby Charlton does not even make the bench these days?

[rixalex]

Appointing Moyes was maintenance of stability. Moyes was a safe bet not a calculated risk.

Stability, stability, stability.

The risk for Moyes is to what extent he is prepared to impose himself on the Man U team instead of being a caretaker of what SAF left for him.

You have to think about what "maintenance of stability", as you call it, means in terms of Man United. Man United have been on a winning streak for the last twenty years or so. Stability therefore surely means a continuation of that. No?

[JacknDanny]

Appointing Moyes was maintenance of stability. Moyes was a safe bet not a calculated risk.

Stability, stability, stability.

The risk for Moyes is to what extent he is prepared to impose himself on the Man U team instead of being a caretaker of what SAF left for him.

You have to think about what "maintenance of stability", as you call it, means in terms of Man United. Man United have been on a winning streak for the last twenty years or so. Stability therefore surely means a continuation of that. No?

The dreaded word "Doubt" is now creeping into the vocabulary of the press and a lot of United fans. Whether it is regarding the transfer fiasco, Moyes ability, or lack of, in attracting good players. This 'Doubt' creates uncertainty and negativity, which I believe translates into nervous and maybe clueless performances such as against Liverpool.

SAF was a freak of nature. Nobody has managed for as long and as successfully as he did, nor ever will.

It is impossible that there will not be a dip.... I believe a big dip.

I think all this talk of stability is nonsense. Stability would have been like it was in the old days at Liverpool... A La Boot Room. Fergusons only mistake, I beleive, was not grooming a replacement, and not having somebody who could step in. Moyes wasnt groomed, has won nothing and is not even in the same galaxy as Ferguson. As a City fan, I will be honest and say this fills me with glee, because without the 'Fergie Factor', I believe United are a very ordinary side. Without him they will certainly lose more games. I just dont see Moyes being able to turn games around like Fergie did.

Can you imagine the press being able to get away with saying what they have been saying over the past day or so, if Fergie was still in charge??

It would never have happened. Not that Fergie would have given them the ammo, but if there was ever mistakes made, he would put such a spin on it, that the press would never dare challenge him.

I am afraid that Moyes is hopelessly out of his depth and as each day passes, United fans the world over are slowly but surely realising it.

[MrRed]

In your dreams Jack

[alfieconn]

In your dreams Jack

Hold up MrRed is back, surely it didn't take 2 days to learn the offside rule

[rixalex]

The dreaded word "Doubt" is now creeping into the vocabulary of the press and a lot of United fans. Whether it is regarding the transfer fiasco, Moyes ability, or lack of, in attracting good players. This 'Doubt' creates uncertainty and negativity, which I believe translates into nervous and maybe clueless performances such as against Liverpool.

"Clueless performance" is to massively overstate things. We had a slow first half in which they nicked an early goal. The second half we made all the running and controlled things, but just couldn't quite deliver the finishing touch. They did nothing in an attacking sense at all after their goal, and this was them at home don't forget. Don't also forget this is Anfield we are talking about, and this is a Liverpool side that has shown so far this season that they do have something about them. So perhaps had we gone their and had they dominated both halves of the game, and had they scored two or three goals, accusations of being clueless might hold some water. As it is, they don't, they are simply all part of the desperate scramble that i mentioned about before, from ABUs and headline hungry tabloids, eager to declare Moyes a failure before he has even really began. I understand that. United have been at the top of the tree for so long now, who apart from United and its supporters wouldn't be wishing for a change of scenery?

And as you say, it is indeed true that it is impossible for there not to be a dip at some point. No club can go on dominating forever. United supporters are realistic about this i think.

We'll deal with it when it happens, not when desperate ABUs tell us it is about to happen.