Diarrhoea

[meatboy]

always got a stock of ca-r-bon charcoal capsules does the trick for me available at most pharmacy's.

[poanoi]

Consider me an domestic expert on this matter, i know my shit.

Go and buy Norfloxacin, take 2 in morning 2 for lunch & 2 for evening,

next day 2 morning 2 lunch,

Done.

They even kill Gonorrhea

[tropo]

Consider me an domestic expert on this matter, i know my shit.

Go and buy Norfloxacin, take 2 in morning 2 for lunch & 2 for evening,

next day 2 morning 2 lunch,

Done.

They even kill Gonorrhea

It doesn't always work. I had food poisoning last year and Norfloxacin didn't work. It doesn't kill parasites either.

It's not a recommended way to take care of diarrhea and they are extremely powerful anti-biotics usually reserved as a last line of defense.

[Sheryl]

I do NOT recommend self treating with an antibiotic, it often just further confuses the diagnosis as well as further disturbing the gut flora. Antibiotic tx should be based on an identified pathogen.

Self measures you can take are (1) (activate charcoal (very helpful), (2) fresh yogurt and/or probiotics and (3) diet elimination - try eliminating things you consume only in Thailand and then if after a week or so the problem is much improved, add them back one at a time until you find the culprit.

Chilis, Thai beer/whiskey and MSG (with which Thai food is loaded0 are all possibles.

[mommysboy]

IBS is IBS whether it is in Bangkok or Bradford.

But I guess it would be sensible to have a stool test to eliminate other causes, as IBS is diagnosed when all other causes have been eliminated.

We already know he has diarrhea-predominant IBS. The point is that he needs to find out the cause of his irritable bowel, and in this case most likely some pathogens or parasites.

Not so.

Diarrhea,etc, caused by invading virus, bugs or parasites is gut infection pure and simple. That's what you had.

IBS can actually be a stand alone syndrome without an identifying cause, and the digestive process just seems to happen too fast.

Thankfully, for most of us however it's simply bad digestion caused by intolerance to certain foods, a classic example being milk intolerance, after a couple of hours things start getting rather blustery and organic down below, and what comes out sometime later is rather loose and perhaps diarrhea. Bacteria does play some part, simply because mal digestion allows the bacteria and yeast already in the gut to have a field day. And in this instance antibiotics can be precribed.

[mommysboy]

Sorry addendum, to last line:

and in this instance antibiotics can be prescribed if the problem is serious and chronic overgrowth is present.

[tropo]

Not so.

Diarrhea,etc, caused by invading virus, bugs or parasites is gut infection pure and simple. That's what you had.

IBS can actually be a stand alone syndrome without an identifying cause, and the digestive process just seems to happen too fast.

Thankfully, for most of us however it's simply bad digestion caused by intolerance to certain foods, a classic example being milk intolerance, after a couple of hours things start getting rather blustery and organic down below, and what comes out sometime later is rather loose and perhaps diarrhea. Bacteria does play some part, simply because mal digestion allows the bacteria and yeast already in the gut to have a field day. And in this instance antibiotics can be precribed.

I disagree again. The OP has a bad case of IBS, the cause still to be determined. Just because the cause cannot be determined doesn't mean it's a stand alone condition without a cause.

Saying someone has IBS is just a lazy way of giving up on people who cannot get their bowels working properly. There's always a cause.

[mommysboy]

_Trop

_{Not so.}

_{Diarrhea,etc, caused by invading virus, bugs or parasites is gut infection pure and simple. That's what you had.}

_{IBS can actually be a stand alone syndrome without an identifying cause, and the digestive process just seems to happen too fast.}

_{Thankfully, for most of us however it's simply bad digestion caused by intolerance to certain foods, a classic example being milk intolerance, after a couple of hours things start getting rather blustery and organic down below, and what comes out sometime later is rather loose and perhaps diarrhea. Bacteria does play some part, simply because mal digestion allows the bacteria and yeast already in the gut to have a field day. And in this instance antibiotics can be precribed.}

_{I disagree again. The OP has a bad case of IBS, the cause still to be determined. Just because the cause cannot be determined doesn't mean it's a stand alone condition without a cause.}

_{Saying someone has IBS is just a lazy way of giving up on people who cannot get their bowels working properly. There's always a cause.}

_{Sorry if sizing is funny. I'm just pressing the reply button, honest}

_{Tropo it's not a matter of agree or disagree, or lazy vs diligent. it's a matter of basic classification, and cause and effect.}

_{1. The cause is the thing that initiates the complaint/disease, most famously a virus, or bacteria.}

_{2. An ailment,complaint, disease is the name we give to the problem/syndrome itself, ie, gut infection, IBS, IBD, Crohns, etc.}

_{3. Symptoms are what happens as a result of the ailment,ie, upset stomach,, runs/constipation, bloating, gas, cramps.}

_{To take the example of your previous stomach complaint. You were infected with an invasive parasite, which gave rise to gut infection, the symptoms of which were diarrhea and I guess gas, and perhaps painful stomach cramps. The cure came from one of the anti worm medicines (was it Albendazole or something similar).}

_{You may have had IBS like symptoms, and may be you still suffer IBS as a sep. issue, but you had a gut infection.}

_{And also, whilst I agree that to just leave it at a vague diagnosis is not good, there isn't always a simple reason for IBS, which can be a motility disorder, in that the digestive system simply functions spasmodically without there appearing to be a trigger, in the old days it used to be called spastic colon, and my old mum just tells me I've go a sensitiver tummy just like hers, and always have had.}

_{In reality, I think conditions like these are the product of excess, and poor lifestyle, and I improved my symptoms by at least half by cutting out lactose, and I'm also zeroing on additives, cheap beer, strong coffee and chilli as other causes.}

_{IBS is diagnosed as a complaint of exclusion, ie, you have to establish that there is no other cause, so it is not possible to say poster A,B, or C has IBS as a given fact, until all other causes have been eliminated.}

[tropo]

_{Sorry if sizing is funny. I'm just pressing the reply button, honest}

_{Tropo it's not a matter of agree or disagree, or lazy vs diligent. it's a matter of basic classification, and cause and effect.}

_{1. The cause is the thing that initiates the complaint/disease, most famously a virus, or bacteria.}

_{2. An ailment,complaint, disease is the name we give to the problem/syndrome itself, ie, gut infection, IBS, IBD, Crohns, etc.}

_{3. Symptoms are what happens as a result of the ailment,ie, upset stomach,, runs/constipation, bloating, gas, cramps.}

_{To take the example of your previous stomach complaint. You were infected with an invasive parasite, which gave rise to gut infection, the symptoms of which were diarrhea and I guess gas, and perhaps painful stomach cramps. The cure came from one of the anti worm medicines (was it Albendazole or something similar).}

_{You may have had IBS like symptoms, and may be you still suffer IBS as a sep. issue, but you had a gut infection.}

_{And also, whilst I agree that to just leave it at a vague diagnosis is not good, there isn't always a simple reason for IBS, which can be a motility disorder, in that the digestive system simply functions spasmodically without there appearing to be a trigger, in the old days it used to be called spastic colon, and my old mum just tells me I've go a sensitiver tummy just like hers, and always have had.}

_{In reality, I think conditions like these are the product of excess, and poor lifestyle, and I improved my symptoms by at least half by cutting out lactose, and I'm also zeroing on additives, cheap beer, strong coffee and chilli as other causes.}

_{IBS is diagnosed as a complaint of exclusion, ie, you have to establish that there is no other cause, so it is not possible to say poster A,B, or C has IBS as a given fact, until all other causes have been eliminated.}

So basically we agree because you believe there is a cause:

You said:

"in reality, I think conditions like these are the product of excess, and poor lifestyle, and I improved my symptoms by at least half by cutting out lactose, and I'm also zeroing on additives, cheap beer, strong coffee and chilli as other causes".

The doctors are giving the diagnosis of IBS when they can't find a cause. Once they decide you have IBS, then that's it - nothing can be done as far as they are concerned.

I'm surprised you didn't mention intestinal flora. Have you tried kefir?

There's a ton of anecdotal evidence of IBS sufferers being "cured" with regular kefir consumption. Because kefir is basically free for life to anyone who has the grains, there's no commercial interest in pushing it therefore you don't see studies being done.

Edited June 6, 2012 by tropo

[mommysboy]

_{Sorry if sizing is funny. I'm just pressing the reply button, honest}

_{Tropo it's not a matter of agree or disagree, or lazy vs diligent. it's a matter of basic classification, and cause and effect.}

_{1. The cause is the thing that initiates the complaint/disease, most famously a virus, or bacteria.}

_{2. An ailment,complaint, disease is the name we give to the problem/syndrome itself, ie, gut infection, IBS, IBD, Crohns, etc.}

_{3. Symptoms are what happens as a result of the ailment,ie, upset stomach,, runs/constipation, bloating, gas, cramps.}

_{To take the example of your previous stomach complaint. You were infected with an invasive parasite, which gave rise to gut infection, the symptoms of which were diarrhea and I guess gas, and perhaps painful stomach cramps. The cure came from one of the anti worm medicines (was it Albendazole or something similar).}

_{You may have had IBS like symptoms, and may be you still suffer IBS as a sep. issue, but you had a gut infection.}

_{And also, whilst I agree that to just leave it at a vague diagnosis is not good, there isn't always a simple reason for IBS, which can be a motility disorder, in that the digestive system simply functions spasmodically without there appearing to be a trigger, in the old days it used to be called spastic colon, and my old mum just tells me I've go a sensitiver tummy just like hers, and always have had.}

_{In reality, I think conditions like these are the product of excess, and poor lifestyle, and I improved my symptoms by at least half by cutting out lactose, and I'm also zeroing on additives, cheap beer, strong coffee and chilli as other causes.}

_{IBS is diagnosed as a complaint of exclusion, ie, you have to establish that there is no other cause, so it is not possible to say poster A,B, or C has IBS as a given fact, until all other causes have been eliminated.}

So basically we agree because you believe there is a cause:

You said:

"in reality, I think conditions like these are the product of excess, and poor lifestyle, and I improved my symptoms by at least half by cutting out lactose, and I'm also zeroing on additives, cheap beer, strong coffee and chilli as other causes".

The doctors are giving the diagnosis of IBS when they can't find a cause. Once they decide you have IBS, then that's it - nothing can be done as far as they are concerned.

I'm surprised you didn't mention intestinal flora. Have you tried kefir?

There's a ton of anecdotal evidence of IBS sufferers being "cured" with regular kefir consumption. Because kefir is basically free for life to anyone who has the grains, there's no commercial interest in pushing it therefore you don't see studies being done.

I was arguing about diagnosis and classification; IBS can not be caused by a pathogen, or parasite, if either is the cause then the illness is a gut infection. As I said, IBS is a stand alone syndrome really when nothing else can be found.

No I haven't tried 'kefir', what is it?

For me, the cause is linked to food and lifestyle without a doubt.

It is also caused by major changes like sudden strenuous exercise, like if I did 50 squats without preparation.

I think the big unspoken elephant in the room is urban pollution and toxicity of food and just about everything really, so that's why I settle for a 50% reduction, don't think anything else is possible.

Like everyone else I just hope I won't develop cancer, which is a big fear for me, as this is a very vulnerable part of the body for me.

[tropo]

I was arguing about diagnosis and classification; IBS can not be caused by a pathogen, or parasite, if either is the cause then the illness is a gut infection. As I said, IBS is a stand alone syndrome really when nothing else can be found.

No I haven't tried 'kefir', what is it?

For me, the cause is linked to food and lifestyle without a doubt.

It is also caused by major changes like sudden strenuous exercise, like if I did 50 squats without preparation.

I think the big unspoken elephant in the room is urban pollution and toxicity of food and just about everything really, so that's why I settle for a 50% reduction, don't think anything else is possible.

Like everyone else I just hope I won't develop cancer, which is a big fear for me, as this is a very vulnerable part of the body for me.

We're going around in circles here. IBS is nothing really - it's just a classification used "when nothing else can be found", but just because nothing else can be found doesn't mean there isn't a cause.

You seem to think you know the cause of your IBS, therefore according to your definition of IBS you can no longer use that term.

If you don't know about kefir I'd have to guess you haven't researched the importance of gut flora because kefir is the most powerful pro-biotic in the world - it's natural and it's free and you make it at home. It's a miracle of nature.

I'm not selling it and not pushing it. Do the research - there's mountains of good information available on the internet.

I'll put money down your problem is a deficiency or imbalance of healthy gut flora. Yoghurt or cheap pro-biotic drinks will not bring them back on line.

[kuripot]

I always used to suffer badly when I was in the Philippines and took it to be climate, different diet etc. However, after a food poisoning episode involving a fish known locally as Tanigue (Spanish Makerel ) I did some research and found out it was a possible allergy to this fish. By avoiding eating this fish I found that I returned to normal motions and have avoided it since. Pity since I liked the Kinilaw dishes ! My last few trips to Thailand have been fine and I probably suffer more in the UK than overseas but that's probably due to drinking out of wet glasses!

[TommoPhysicist]

I spoke to my doctor whilst back home and explained to her my problem whilst living in Thailand, she told me to take Imodium.. brilliant. I told her I was looking for a more long term solution and she just told me to just make sure I'm getting a balance diet. So with that useful advice I'm really not sure what to do now, can anyone please offer any suggestions? I'm spending more time in the toilet than living my life!

This was the cure for me, Imodium.

One or two tablets will cure most attacks, I had about one a month same as you. After a year, I just stopped getting the problem.

You body just needs time to get used to the new bugs, and the new food styles.

Antibiotics jut made it worse for me, once I stopped taking them, the time between bouts grew greater.

Edited June 7, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[bottleymike]

A couple of things I have found help me to minimise the Bangkok trots.

Avoid chillies in food,especially cooked in the street.

Avoid ANY shellfish cooked ANYWHERE, either in the street food stalls, on the beach or in posh resteraunts. I ate shellfish in a reasonable proper resteraunt in Naklua, and ended up with both rota virus, and a viral infection.I had five nights in the hospital spent s**ting through the eye of a needle, whilst on a saline drip.Not funny when it happens to you.

Don't use tap water when cleaning your teeth,use bottled water or stuff boiled first.

Avoid ice in bars etc, as you don't know where the water came the ice.e from that made the ice.

Hope these ideas help.

[tropo]

I always used to suffer badly when I was in the Philippines and took it to be climate, different diet etc. However, after a food poisoning episode involving a fish known locally as Tanigue (Spanish Makerel ) I did some research and found out it was a possible allergy to this fish. By avoiding eating this fish I found that I returned to normal motions and have avoided it since. Pity since I liked the Kinilaw dishes ! My last few trips to Thailand have been fine and I probably suffer more in the UK than overseas but that's probably due to drinking out of wet glasses!

One has to ask the question - where do they get these fish (Tanigue)? In the Philippines they raise fish in absolutely filthy lakes, rivers and sea enclosures. Laguna de Bay is one of the most polluted lakes in the world and a big source of fresh water fish in the Philippines.

In Thailand they sell Basa (catfish) which comes from the Mekong River Delta in Vietnam. They actually call this "Pacific Dory" in Foodland. It has taken the world by storm because of its low price, flaky white consistency and bland flavour and the chances are fish and chip shops in your home country use this fish. They do in Australia.

I would suggest anyone who eats this fish watch this video. I guarantee you'll never eat it again once you've seen it. At about 200 - 240 baht per kilo frozen (a lot is water weight) you're paying big money for this garbage.

[media=]

[/media] Edited June 7, 2012 by tropo

[mommysboy]

I was arguing about diagnosis and classification; IBS can not be caused by a pathogen, or parasite, if either is the cause then the illness is a gut infection. As I said, IBS is a stand alone syndrome really when nothing else can be found.

No I haven't tried 'kefir', what is it?

For me, the cause is linked to food and lifestyle without a doubt.

It is also caused by major changes like sudden strenuous exercise, like if I did 50 squats without preparation.

I think the big unspoken elephant in the room is urban pollution and toxicity of food and just about everything really, so that's why I settle for a 50% reduction, don't think anything else is possible.

Like everyone else I just hope I won't develop cancer, which is a big fear for me, as this is a very vulnerable part of the body for me.

We're going around in circles here. IBS is nothing really - it's just a classification used "when nothing else can be found", but just because nothing else can be found doesn't mean there isn't a cause.

You seem to think you know the cause of your IBS, therefore according to your definition of IBS you can no longer use that term.

If you don't know about kefir I'd have to guess you haven't researched the importance of gut flora because kefir is the most powerful pro-biotic in the world - it's natural and it's free and you make it at home. It's a miracle of nature.

I'm not selling it and not pushing it. Do the research - there's mountains of good information available on the internet.

I'll put money down your problem is a deficiency or imbalance of healthy gut flora. Yoghurt or cheap pro-biotic drinks will not bring them back on line.

I am just presenting a straight line argument based on standard medical protocol.

IBS most certainly is a stand alone ailment and is not a nothing diagnosis, as afar as conventional medicine is concerned anyway. it is believed to have a neurological connection, somehow the gut motility gets speeded up. There does not need to be a cause as such, although that doesn't make too much sense to me; if nothing is causing it then why is something happening?

Thankfully most of us, have simple irritation caused by some food intolerance and in this case IBS is not really appropriate I agree.

I'll look at the kefir, thanks for the tip. Always on the look out for good natural medicines, abstinence is very boring.

[tropo]

I am just presenting a straight line argument based on standard medical protocol.

IBS most certainly is a stand alone ailment and is not a nothing diagnosis, as afar as conventional medicine is concerned anyway. it is believed to have a neurological connection, somehow the gut motility gets speeded up. There does not need to be a cause as such, although that doesn't make too much sense to me; if nothing is causing it then why is something happening?

I feel you already doubt the IBS diagnosis. Many things can speed up gut peristalsis - kefir does that. It's good to keep the waste moving along at the same pace that food is introduced. IBS can also mean constipation, in which case the gut has slowed down - or a combination of both.

Intestinal flora number about 100 trillion bacteria, fungi and protozoa, often likened to a "forgotten organ". Mostly doctors are killing these off with antibiotics so it should be priority one to re establish a healthy colony. Doctors have very little understanding about how this massive colony functions but it stands to reason it is one of the most important factors in intestinal health.

[mommysboy]

I am just presenting a straight line argument based on standard medical protocol.

IBS most certainly is a stand alone ailment and is not a nothing diagnosis, as afar as conventional medicine is concerned anyway. it is believed to have a neurological connection, somehow the gut motility gets speeded up. There does not need to be a cause as such, although that doesn't make too much sense to me; if nothing is causing it then why is something happening?

I feel you already doubt the IBS diagnosis. Many things can speed up gut peristalsis - kefir does that. It's good to keep the waste moving along at the same pace that food is introduced. IBS can also mean constipation, in which case the gut has slowed down - or a combination of both.

Intestinal flora number about 100 trillion bacteria, fungi and protozoa, often likened to a "forgotten organ". Mostly doctors are killing these off with antibiotics so it should be priority one to re establish a healthy colony. Doctors have very little understanding about how this massive colony functions but it stands to reason it is one of the most important factors in intestinal health.

What most of us commonly call IBS, is simply food intolerance. Take away the offending substance and the problem goes. Since most of the foods that cause the symptoms are refined, or synthetic, or not naturally occuring, or are eaten rather copiously, then there is no real problem that could be classified as a medical condition. In the case of lactose intolerance, to my mind we should really be off milk at the weaning stage anyway, and if a body can not tolerate it at 50 years of age that would be normal. Not IBS!

And then there seems to be a condition whereby the gut flora has been knocked for six by taking medicine, so I suppose this is IBS by way of toxic stress, maybe?

However, there is a core of people for whom IBS is a motility disorder caused by some little understood neurological dysfunction, which effects the motility of the bowels, and influences how they do or do not contract rythmically, thus producing all those wonderful symptoms which leave them doubled up but without an apparent ailment. I don't know what the cause is, God playing tricks?

So we are left with the definition of a condition typically characterised by spasmodic function of the bowels with contiguous symptoms, which has not been caused nor is the result of infection, functional disorder, or is connected to any other established disease or dysfunction, and which has not been directly or indirectly caused by food intolerances or allergies, or by the depletion of gut flora or bacterial imbalance due the toxic effects of medicine.

Yes it is a bit nebulous!!!

[tropo]

What most of us commonly call IBS, is simply food intolerance. Take away the offending substance and the problem goes. Since most of the foods that cause the symptoms are refined, or synthetic, or not naturally occuring, or are eaten rather copiously, then there is no real problem that could be classified as a medical condition. In the case of lactose intolerance, to my mind we should really be off milk at the weaning stage anyway, and if a body can not tolerate it at 50 years of age that would be normal. Not IBS!

And then there seems to be a condition whereby the gut flora has been knocked for six by taking medicine, so I suppose this is IBS by way of toxic stress, maybe?

However, there is a core of people for whom IBS is a motility disorder caused by some little understood neurological dysfunction, which effects the motility of the bowels, and influences how they do or do not contract rythmically, thus producing all those wonderful symptoms which leave them doubled up but without an apparent ailment. I don't know what the cause is, God playing tricks?

So we are left with the definition of a condition typically characterised by spasmodic function of the bowels with contiguous symptoms, which has not been caused nor is the result of infection, functional disorder, or is connected to any other established disease or dysfunction, and which has not been directly or indirectly caused by food intolerances or allergies, or by the depletion of gut flora or bacterial imbalance due the toxic effects of medicine.

Yes it is a bit nebulous!!!

I don't prescribe to your "don't drink milk after weaning" theory and believe it is a good source of nutrition. Like anything, it should be consumed in moderation as part of a varied diet.

Most food intolerances are probably a result of bad digestion which eventually overwhelms the immune system. Fixing the intestinal flora can probably fix most food intolerances. Most really healthy people with strong digestive systems can tolerate most anything. People with food intolerances usually have problems with more than one food and are sensitive to many. That alone should provide a clue.

Edited June 7, 2012 by tropo

[mommysboy]

What most of us commonly call IBS, is simply food intolerance. Take away the offending substance and the problem goes. Since most of the foods that cause the symptoms are refined, or synthetic, or not naturally occuring, or are eaten rather copiously, then there is no real problem that could be classified as a medical condition. In the case of lactose intolerance, to my mind we should really be off milk at the weaning stage anyway, and if a body can not tolerate it at 50 years of age that would be normal. Not IBS!

And then there seems to be a condition whereby the gut flora has been knocked for six by taking medicine, so I suppose this is IBS by way of toxic stress, maybe?

However, there is a core of people for whom IBS is a motility disorder caused by some little understood neurological dysfunction, which effects the motility of the bowels, and influences how they do or do not contract rythmically, thus producing all those wonderful symptoms which leave them doubled up but without an apparent ailment. I don't know what the cause is, God playing tricks?

So we are left with the definition of a condition typically characterised by spasmodic function of the bowels with contiguous symptoms, which has not been caused nor is the result of infection, functional disorder, or is connected to any other established disease or dysfunction, and which has not been directly or indirectly caused by food intolerances or allergies, or by the depletion of gut flora or bacterial imbalance due the toxic effects of medicine.

Yes it is a bit nebulous!!!

I don't prescribe to your "don't drink milk after weaning" theory and believe it is a good source of nutrition. Like anything, it should be consumed in moderation as part of a varied diet.

Most food intolerances are probably a result of bad digestion which eventually overwhelms the immune system. Fixing the intestinal flora can probably fix most food intolerances. Most really healthy people with strong digestive systems can tolerate most anything. People with food intolerances usually have problems with more than one food and are sensitive to many. That alone should provide a clue.

Well then, there you have it you have a stand alone syndrome called IBS, that's what you have just described.

And like any syndrome it is a rather vague collection of symptoms without one definitive cause or pathogen, whereas you are chasing a magic bullet cure all about gut flora.

It's your sweeping statements which are wrong. Here, you now say most really healthy people with strong digestive systems can toleratate most anything. Food tolerance isn't about strength and often an allergic reaction to anything is actually an overstrong reaction. People generally have problems digesting because of a lack of enzyme particular to that food. It could be that through the processing of the food valuable enzymes have been wiped out, whereas the food itself has been fortified with sugars. This could be the case with milk, where lacto bacilli are wiped out, leaving a lot of lactose I guess.

Personally, I have taken oral supplements such as probiotics and the yeast in kefir, and it made not a jot of difference. Cutting back on KFC ice cream did however. This is a central issue, rubbish food which is addictive. Why look at anything else in the main?

Every other animal is off milk at the weaning stage, us humans go on after that drinking cow's milk mainly, which is really meant for calves. As one gets older the body some people produce less and less lactase. There isn't a defining moment when you can say oh that's a food intolerance, it just kind of happens over a period of time.

There are a myriad of foods that cause problems, most people have one or 2 that don't sit favourably, out of about 100 food items that might cause no problem at all. From my own experience, once you find one major cause, the gut settles down anyway so you start to eat most anything else.

Another thing, chilli for instance is not native to UK for instance and it is little surprise when it can not be tolerated for obvious reasons. To an extent this is also true of even rice. Yes we in the west digest it but not perhaps not as well as a native of Thailand, just as they may not digest the humble spud so well.

It's a more complex problem than organic yoghurt can solve, or being strong.

[Zodiac]

Without going into my medical histroy, diarrhoea is something that has plagued me for years, often severe, and I recently underwent a colonoscopy and gastroscopy in Thailand which revealed the likes of ulcers, hernia. polyps, and an inflamed duodenum etc. I have been given medication which so far is working wonders.

[tropo]

Well then, there you have it you have a stand alone syndrome called IBS, that's what you have just described.

And like any syndrome it is a rather vague collection of symptoms without one definitive cause or pathogen, whereas you are chasing a magic bullet cure all about gut flora.

I have described nothing of the sort.

I'm also not chasing a magic bullet - I actually found it. Suggesting that you've taken some probiotic supplements which equates to kefir is nonsense. You didn't know what kefir is and now you're an expert.

The medical profession knows nothing about intestinal flora. It's just too complicated for science right now - 500 species of flora numbering 100 trillion all working their mysteries in the human gut. It's much easier to just say to someone they've got IBS and there's nothing that be done.

I don't know why you're trying to defend your position on IBS. You've already stated many times you believe there has to be a cause but you just haven't found it. I gave you the best advice you'll ever get but you're more interested in trying to win an argument than try something which will work.

[tropo]

Every other animal is off milk at the weaning stage, us humans go on after that drinking cow's milk mainly, which is really meant for calves. As one gets older the body some people produce less and less lactase. There isn't a defining moment when you can say oh that's a food intolerance, it just kind of happens over a period of time.

Here we go again with the childish logic that cow's milk is only for baby cows.

Humans can eat pretty much anything. There is no particular food which was designed for humans and it varies with geographic location and what people historically ate at that location. You could use the same childish logic about everything we eat.

Humans have been consuming animal milk since the dawn of civilization.

I'm in my 50's and have never displayed any intolerance to milk. My digestive system is better now than it was in my 20's. It's even better now than ever since consuming kefir daily for the last year.

My young wife has multiple food allergies. She refuses to drink kefir.

Edited June 8, 2012 by tropo

[mommysboy]

Well then, there you have it you have a stand alone syndrome called IBS, that's what you have just described.

And like any syndrome it is a rather vague collection of symptoms without one definitive cause or pathogen, whereas you are chasing a magic bullet cure all about gut flora.

I have described nothing of the sort.

I'm also not chasing a magic bullet - I actually found it. Suggesting that you've taken some probiotic supplements which equates to kefir is nonsense. You didn't know what kefir is and now you're an expert.

The medical profession knows nothing about intestinal flora. It's just too complicated for science right now - 500 species of flora numbering 100 trillion all working their mysteries in the human gut. It's much easier to just say to someone they've got IBS and there's nothing that be done.

I don't know why you're trying to defend your position on IBS. You've already stated many times you believe there has to be a cause but you just haven't found it. I gave you the best advice you'll ever get but you're more interested in trying to win an argument than try something which will work.

Just talking good sense. You'll be having us on Yak's vomit next.

The other thing that sprung to mind is IBS in relation to stress, anxiety, and depression, better calm down or you might be in for a bout yourself.

[tropo]

Just talking good sense. You'll be having us on Yak's vomit next.

The other thing that sprung to mind is IBS in relation to stress, anxiety, and depression, better calm down or you might be in for a bout yourself.

You see, I don't want to put you on anything and I'm not trying to sell you anything. If you want to bury your head in the sand, that's your choice.

I take care of extra stress in the gym - not on the toilet.

Edited June 8, 2012 by tropo

[Sheryl]

Please tone it down a notch, boys. No need to quarrel.

Tropo has found kefir helpful, Mommysboy has not.

Some people are intolerant to lactose and some are not.

[tropo]

Tropo has found kefir helpful, Mommysboy has not.

Mommysboy hasn't tried kefir. He didn't know what it was.

When kefir is made, the lactose is converted to kefir by the grains. It's a very sour drink. People who are lactose intolerant should not have a problem with it.

[JimmyTheMook]

There is a very sour tasting yogurt drink sold in some of the Arabic (Persian?) restaurants here

in Pattaya , wonder if this is fermented kefir.

It sounds very interesting to me and I would be willing to try it out.

[mommysboy]

_{I haven't tried kefir. It sounds interesting, but currently my gut problems are at end, as I modified my diet. I'm expecting a bit of trouble next week when I restart gym and football, that will be IBS proper, had it ever since I was a teenager.}

_{I've had the sour milk and it is the real thing I think, and there is a good organic yoghurt in Tops, as well as a form of Saurkraut in Lotus, but I don't set great store by probiotics for me personally, always tolerated antibiotics really well. As soon as any problem food is eliminated my stomach is in balance}

_{If anyone can tell me how I might avoid problems when drinking alcohol that would be of great help, as I tend to get very peptic quite quickly, and I feel a bit off the next day. Even just drinking half a bottle of wine can set it off, although generally it takes a bottle.}

_{I'm not interested in great health really, as for me that means avoiding all the great things like alcohol, and coffee,so I'll put up with some gut problems instead. Giving up smoking was enough of a wrench and I miss it dearly.}

[mommysboy]

Tropo has found kefir helpful, Mommysboy has not.

Mommysboy hasn't tried kefir. He didn't know what it was.

When kefir is made, the lactose is converted to kefir by the grains. It's a very sour drink. People who are lactose intolerant should not have a problem with it.

Tropo doesn't suffer from IBS, he had a parasitic gut infection. He took the medicine and got better I guess.