Engine Overhaul Done Help !

[Rancid]

I have a pretty modified Suzuki 800 Intruder, actually had it for sale on TV but then it started to blow smoke so I pulled it. One Big Bike mechanic tried it for two months and got nowhere although did sort out some unrelated electrical problems. Next guy had it for 2 weeks and just told me he wasn't interested, when I picked it up oily water was now running out of the breather head tube, didn't really see that as an improvement, especially as it was pouring onto the rear tyre and making me slide all over the road. Next guy said the carbys were worn out and needed new clutch plates, so I order sets off Ebay and now the bike clutch completely stopped working, this after he told me he rode it and was running great. So he has another go and the clutch kind of works and it still blew smoke but now wouldn't rev out any more.

That was enough, I decided to strip the bloody thing myself and see what I could find, figured couldn't be any worse off. Local Harley shop here in CM does powder coating so figured might as well do that as it would be all in parts. Even though they don't service Jap bikes they were really helpful in that they split the crank for me as I couldn't get some bolts off, and showed me that one bore had a hairline crack in it. So found a new cylinder on Ebay, they then honed both bores and told me to buy new rings and a full gasket kit. Today they put my valve springs on for me with their tool as the valve seals they also said to order just arrived, so now the final rebuild starts as the crank is done, just whack on the cylinders.

Everything now seems OK, I should know within a week when I try to start it, still carby balancing issues to deal with yet. Harley guy also said to jack it up and put in 5th and manually turn the tire as this would piump oil around the bike before it actually starts to make sure it is well lubed. I am no mechanic but have played around with bikes as a kid, however I sure now know this bike inside out so any future problems hopefully I can now deal with myself. There is a lot of suff in these engines I didn't know about. There is apparently one good mechanic in town but he always wouldn't take on the job as always said too busy. When pulling the clutch off also noticed it wasn't installed properly, this spring washer thing was on the wrong way, a service manual is essential if doing this. Also you will end up buying some extra tools, but hey it is manly to have lots of tools anyway.

Also discovered my Intruder has a VS750 frame with a largely VS800 motor except for the VX800 heads and clutch, just shows even though this has a legit greenbook (as stated my the motor registry when I changed the colour) you never know what you are getting over here. I know this isn't a common bike but if anyone ever needs any amatuer advice about them just PM me.

[Richard-BKK]

Actually, for even a professional of a specific 'older', not regularly service by somebody with knowledge, motorcycles are often a complete mystery of discovery for a professional mechanical person who actually knows the motorcycle model.

Edited June 21, 2012 by Richard-BKK

[ray23]

Richard these are the parts I think I need, you think I missed somehting let me know?

92081A

16009

16009

16126

92055

43028

16017

16014

92064

92093A

16031

92055A

42028A

92093

92190 ( need 3)

Main Jet is a 135. ( I use a K&N filter with stock exhaust. this jet is available in 130,132,138,140 ) should I be using a larger jet?

Main air jet is a 100

Needle jet is a 6

Jet Needle N2PE

Pilot Jet 48

Pilot Air Jet 70

Starter Jet 70

Anything that could be sourced in Thailand would really help

[Semper]

I have a pretty modified Suzuki 800 Intruder, actually had it for sale on TV but then it started to blow smoke so I pulled it. One Big Bike mechanic tried it for two months and got nowhere although did sort out some unrelated electrical problems. Next guy had it for 2 weeks and just told me he wasn't interested, when I picked it up oily water was now running out of the breather head tube, didn't really see that as an improvement, especially as it was pouring onto the rear tyre and making me slide all over the road. Next guy said the carbys were worn out and needed new clutch plates, so I order sets off Ebay and now the bike clutch completely stopped working, this after he told me he rode it and was running great. So he has another go and the clutch kind of works and it still blew smoke but now wouldn't rev out any more.

That was enough, I decided to strip the bloody thing myself and see what I could find, figured couldn't be any worse off. Local Harley shop here in CM does powder coating so figured might as well do that as it would be all in parts. Even though they don't service Jap bikes they were really helpful in that they split the crank for me as I couldn't get some bolts off, and showed me that one bore had a hairline crack in it. So found a new cylinder on Ebay, they then honed both bores and told me to buy new rings and a full gasket kit. Today they put my valve springs on for me with their tool as the valve seals they also said to order just arrived, so now the final rebuild starts as the crank is done, just whack on the cylinders.

Everything now seems OK, I should know within a week when I try to start it, still carby balancing issues to deal with yet. Harley guy also said to jack it up and put in 5th and manually turn the tire as this would piump oil around the bike before it actually starts to make sure it is well lubed. I am no mechanic but have played around with bikes as a kid, however I sure now know this bike inside out so any future problems hopefully I can now deal with myself. There is a lot of suff in these engines I didn't know about. There is apparently one good mechanic in town but he always wouldn't take on the job as always said too busy. When pulling the clutch off also noticed it wasn't installed properly, this spring washer thing was on the wrong way, a service manual is essential if doing this. Also you will end up buying some extra tools, but hey it is manly to have lots of tools anyway.

Also discovered my Intruder has a VS750 frame with a largely VS800 motor except for the VX800 heads and clutch, just shows even though this has a legit greenbook (as stated my the motor registry when I changed the colour) you never know what you are getting over here. I know this isn't a common bike but if anyone ever needs any amatuer advice about them just PM me.

A blown headgasket if you ask me. But what the hey, I couldn't find the battery on the Honda wave.

[ray23]

My guess and it's just that, water in the oil was from the cylnder crack. Once you hit that point might as well go for the overhail, engins is torn down anyway, so the best time. But if I read it correctly you have sorted your problems?

This has been one heck of a learning experince and I'm not done yet.

Once I get the psrt a Brittish friend is going to rebuild the Carb. That way I will get some first hand experience.

[Richard-BKK]

92081A = Kawa Part Number: 92081-1826 (VACUUM VALVE SPRING) price +/- 679 THB

16009 = Kawa Part Number: 16009-1861 (NEEDLE-JET) price +/- 1063 THB

16126 = Kawa Part Number: 16126-1170 (VACUUM VALVE) price +/- 5320 THB

92055 = Kawa Part Number: 92055-1518 (FLOAT CHAMBER RING-O) price +/- 680 THB

43028 = Kawa Part Number: 43028-0002 (DIAPHRAGM) price +/- 2400 THB

16017 = Kawa Part Number: 16017-0057 (JET-NEEDLE) price (currently unknown)

16014 = Kawa Part Number: 16014-1081 (SCREW-PILOT AIR) price +/- 690 THB

92064 = Kawa Part Number: 92064-1174 (JET-PILOT) price +/- 504 THB

92093A ????

92063A = Kawa Part Number: 92063-1014 (#135 JET-MAIN) price +/- 415 THB

16031 = Kawa Part Number: 16031-1089 (FLOAT) price +/- 1745 THB

92055A = Kawa Part Number: 92055-1518 (FLOAT CHAMBER RING-O) price +/- 679 THB

42028A ????

43028A see 43028

92093 = Kawa Part Number: 92093-1046 (in.Uin.RING SEAL) price +/- 193 THB

92190 ( need 3) = Kawa Part Number: 92190-1610 (4X9X80 TUBE) price 139 THB

With all the parts you need it's maybe better that you look for a complete new or secondhand carburetor, it will probably will be less expensive....

For the jets, I will stay with the stock jets for now, or did you also changed the exhaust pipe... anyway for now it's best to stay with what you have...

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Kawasaki Part Number 11004-1310 (GASKET-HEAD) price +/- 1190 THB

Edited June 22, 2012 by Richard-BKK

[ray23]

I see where you are coming from Richard what we have listed here, if it can be found in Thailand is:

14,175 Baht

To order a new Carb from the states we wouild be looking at $942.00 or 28,260 baht.

That would be the cost of the Carb, shipping and import tax.

My first intent was to buy a new or used one, I contacted Red Baron, and Dr, Bike pretty much just got blown off, couldn't even get a price.

Do you know where I could source a new carb in Thailand?

Thanks again for youe help. If you can source these parts I will be ready to buy after the first of the month, That is how us Old Gits get our money

[Semper]

I see where you are coming from Richard what we have listed here, if it can be found in Thailand is:

14,175 Baht

To order a new Carb from the states we wouild be looking at $942.00 or 28,260 baht.

That would be the cost of the Carb, shipping and import tax.

My first intent was to buy a new or used one, I contacted Red Baron, and Dr, Bike pretty much just got blown off, couldn't even get a price.

Do you know where I could source a new carb in Thailand?

Thanks again for youe help. If you can source these parts I will be ready to buy after the first of the month, That is how us Old Gits get our money

14K for parts!! Don't even consider it. All you need is a couple of gaskets (probably you can reuse the old ones) and a cleanup of the carb.

[Richard-BKK]

I have to agree with Semper, some of the parts you want to order are very rarely replace.

[ray23]

Thanks Semper.

Here is the problem, the bike is 17 years l old. Made for normal gas, unleaded at best. It has had 80K Klms of gasohol ran though it. There really is no telling what we might run into when open that puppy up. It was cleaned four weeks ago.

With the difficulties I have with parts we miss something it will be a minimum of couple of weeks before I can get the additional parts I might need.

If I can't source the parts here, then I will get nailed with another shipping fee.

A friend will do the rebuild for me. properly.

I don't like spending that money either. But, it might be best to bite the bullet and get it over with.

I appreciate the thoughts

[ray23]

Ok guys remember I have no idea what to order so what parts can I illiminate.

I can find jet kits, and that will cut cost, I think.

I;'m really concerned about O rings and gaskets for example, becuase of the gasohol

[Semper]

Ok guys remember I have no idea what to order so what parts can I illiminate.

I can find jet kits, and that will cut cost, I think.

I;'m really concerned about O rings and gaskets for example, becuase of the gasohol

Well, you should take the carb apart to begin with. Jets, can't imagine there's anything wrong with them. Regarding o-rings and gaskets, you should be able to see if they need to be replaced (cracked, dried etc.). I wouldn't be surprised if you can find o-rings in a well sorted hardware store.

[ray23]

Not a mechaninc my friend.

[Lickey]

Ray, been offline a while and just read about your probs, im not really familiar with the VN800 but i think it has a solid aluminuim inlet manifold with a single carb, carb problems would suggest problems with both cylinders, which you dont seem to have,

Its possibly a manifold problem, where the flange could be sucking air, a very quick way to determine this is get a can of Easy Start, [either] start engine and spray round the manifold joints, if a cylinder picks up, theres the problem, its possible after all the strip downs ect that a flange has got bowed and the O-ring or gasket wont seal, also if one cylinder is running weak, it would explain the hotter temps.

If the guts of the water pump are easy to get at, then check the wear of the impeller to the surface where it runs, if you can get a playing card in there with plenty of play, the pump is worn out, no suprise after 18odd years, if the card is a tight push fit, all should be ok, seems like its ben stripped down enough to have flushed the water system, but a backflush with a garden hose wont hurt,

There you go mate, a few more things to try before you spend mega bucks, Cheers, Lickey..

[sirchai]

Ok guys remember I have no idea what to order so what parts can I illiminate.

I can find jet kits, and that will cut cost, I think.

I;'m really concerned about O rings and gaskets for example, becuase of the gasohol

Well, you should take the carb apart to begin with. Jets, can't imagine there's anything wrong with them. Regarding o-rings and gaskets, you should be able to see if they need to be replaced (cracked, dried etc.). I wouldn't be surprised if you can find o-rings in a well sorted hardware store.

You'll find all sorts of O- rings here at several hardware stores. Gaskets can be handmade using the old ones and the right material.

[ray23]

Thanks guys took out for a run again today things didn't go well. Still digesting the event before I go much further.

[ray23]

Ray, been offline a while and just read about your probs, im not really familiar with the VN800 but i think it has a solid aluminuim inlet manifold with a single carb, carb problems would suggest problems with both cylinders, which you dont seem to have,

Its possibly a manifold problem, where the flange could be sucking air, a very quick way to determine this is get a can of Easy Start, [either] start engine and spray round the manifold joints, if a cylinder picks up, theres the problem, its possible after all the strip downs ect that a flange has got bowed and the O-ring or gasket wont seal, also if one cylinder is running weak, it would explain the hotter temps.

If the guts of the water pump are easy to get at, then check the wear of the impeller to the surface where it runs, if you can get a playing card in there with plenty of play, the pump is worn out, no suprise after 18odd years, if the card is a tight push fit, all should be ok, seems like its ben stripped down enough to have flushed the water system, but a backflush with a garden hose wont hurt,

There you go mate, a few more things to try before you spend mega bucks, Cheers, Lickey..

Where do you find Easy Start, [either] ?

The embeller was checked whan the bike was torn down and I did the back flush. I'll check the water flow again today.

The biggest problem with this bike is everything has to be sorted out of the States. At least fro me that is how it's proving out. Red Baron adn Dr Bike donlt have anything new or used.

This is what I experienced yesterday:

have looked in the shop manual till I'm blue in the face for a timing chain not there/

Are the rocker arm chains the same thing?

It also mention the timing adjusted at the ignitor.

dam_n thing sounds like John Deer tracter

It has an intermitent mis and runs on the hot side ( better then it was) but I even noticed backfiring today that's new.

I really can't get a mechanic to check the timing and I don't have a clue, ( not a mechanic) So I just can't do it.

I will be ordering parts for a rebuild on the carb. Hoping that it is fuel problem. But if I'm going to order I would like to order what I need in one order. I don't think the friend who is going forward the parts would appreciate doing it very day.

I know it is something the first mechanic did. The second one didn't bother checking and just put back the way he saw it. Till the first guy got his hands on it was running perfectly. We have fixed most of his mess, so I'm thinking timing. That is the only thing that he got hands on and hasn''t been repaired. The bike was running perfectly when I took it to the first Mechanic,

Anyway guys really confused right now and not a clue on how to proceed.

I will try to check the manifold. I klnow this si going to get expensive already is, but far less then 6 560K for a new 900.

Been checking around for a used engine can't even find that. Lots around for the 1500 and the 400. But, not for the 800

[BirdsandBooze]

Ray, been offline a while and just read about your probs, im not really familiar with the VN800 but i think it has a solid aluminuim inlet manifold with a single carb, carb problems would suggest problems with both cylinders, which you dont seem to have,

Its possibly a manifold problem, where the flange could be sucking air, a very quick way to determine this is get a can of Easy Start, [either] start engine and spray round the manifold joints, if a cylinder picks up, theres the problem, its possible after all the strip downs ect that a flange has got bowed and the O-ring or gasket wont seal, also if one cylinder is running weak, it would explain the hotter temps.

If the guts of the water pump are easy to get at, then check the wear of the impeller to the surface where it runs, if you can get a playing card in there with plenty of play, the pump is worn out, no suprise after 18odd years, if the card is a tight push fit, all should be ok, seems like its ben stripped down enough to have flushed the water system, but a backflush with a garden hose wont hurt,

There you go mate, a few more things to try before you spend mega bucks, Cheers, Lickey..

Where do you find Easy Start, [either] ?

The embeller was checked whan the bike was torn down and I did the back flush. I'll check the water flow again today.

The biggest problem with this bike is everything has to be sorted out of the States. At least fro me that is how it's proving out. Red Baron adn Dr Bike donlt have anything new or used.

This is what I experienced yesterday:

have looked in the shop manual till I'm blue in the face for a timing chain not there/

Are the rocker arm chains the same thing?

It also mention the timing adjusted at the ignitor.

dam_n thing sounds like John Deer tracter

It has an intermitent mis and runs on the hot side ( better then it was) but I even noticed backfiring today that's new.

I really can't get a mechanic to check the timing and I don't have a clue, ( not a mechanic) So I just can't do it.

I will be ordering parts for a rebuild on the carb. Hoping that it is fuel problem. But if I'm going to order I would like to order what I need in one order. I don't think the friend who is going forward the parts would appreciate doing it very day.

I know it is something the first mechanic did. The second one didn't bother checking and just put back the way he saw it. Till the first guy got his hands on it was running perfectly. We have fixed most of his mess, so I'm thinking timing. That is the only thing that he got hands on and hasn''t been repaired. The bike was running perfectly when I took it to the first Mechanic,

Anyway guys really confused right now and not a clue on how to proceed.

I will try to check the manifold. I klnow this si going to get expensive already is, but far less then 6 560K for a new 900.

Been checking around for a used engine can't even find that. Lots around for the 1500 and the 400. But, not for the 800

If the bike was running perfectly before you took it to the first bodger what was it that prompted you to take it to him? I do feel sympathy for you because all these problems caused by Somchai number one, and then Somchai number two failing to redress the problems caused by number one are obviously wearing heavily on you. Hope you get it sorted to your satisfaction quickly.

[Richard-BKK]

When you experience 'backfiring' on your motorcycle, and it's not a Harley-Davidson, it's a good sign that your ignition timing is off.

Getting the ignition timing back to the perfect/correct setting is not that easy especially if the first mechanic did not marked the original setting.. with some luck a mechanic before him made timing marks, we normally use red, blue even black permanent markers. So you can open the cover and look if you can see some timing markings/setting...

Don't experimenting with your timing set-up as the wrong timing can ruin your engine beyond repair in a few seconds...

[ray23]

Why did I take it there, now that is good question. Recommendation of a friend. I think he was wrong meant well. But. none the less wrong.

I have at mechanic I've known for years today. Told him to put in new timing chains. We will see what happens. I replaced the timing chains about 20K ago. Because it was backfiring, cleared it right up. As you say hopefully someone marked them and they are still there.

So what is listed in the shop manual as rocker arm chains, is that the timing chains? Before this is over I'm sure I will have to source them out of the states.

[Richard-BKK]

Why did I take it there, now that is good question. Recommendation of a friend. I think he was wrong meant well. But. none the less wrong.

I have at mechanic I've known for years today. Told him to put in new timing chains. We will see what happens. I replaced the timing chains about 20K ago. Because it was backfiring, cleared it right up. As you say hopefully someone marked them and they are still there.

So what is listed in the shop manual as rocker arm chains, is that the timing chains? Before this is over I'm sure I will have to source them out of the states.

Rocker-arm chain is the same thing as a timing chain... I believe I have somewhere a special on how-to VN800 valve adjustment... come back with that

[Richard-BKK]

As promised, the how-to for the Kawasaki Vulcan VN800 Valve-Adjustment – be aware that this is for the VN800 2001 so Kawasaki Part Numbers are probably different.

Kawasaki-Vulcan-VN800-Valve-Adjustment.pdf

[Semper]

When you experience 'backfiring' on your motorcycle, and it's not a Harley-Davidson, it's a good sign that your ignition timing is off.

Getting the ignition timing back to the perfect/correct setting is not that easy especially if the first mechanic did not marked the original setting.. with some luck a mechanic before him made timing marks, we normally use red, blue even black permanent markers. So you can open the cover and look if you can see some timing markings/setting...

Don't experimenting with your timing set-up as the wrong timing can ruin your engine beyond repair in a few seconds...

Normally the manufacturer make these marks. I have never seen an engine without timing marks.

[Richard-BKK]

When you experience 'backfiring' on your motorcycle, and it's not a Harley-Davidson, it's a good sign that your ignition timing is off.

Getting the ignition timing back to the perfect/correct setting is not that easy especially if the first mechanic did not marked the original setting.. with some luck a mechanic before him made timing marks, we normally use red, blue even black permanent markers. So you can open the cover and look if you can see some timing markings/setting...

Don't experimenting with your timing set-up as the wrong timing can ruin your engine beyond repair in a few seconds...

Normally the manufacturer make these marks. I have never seen an engine without timing marks.

I agree, but in a country as Thailand where parts are being recycled, cylinder heads resurfacing is not uncommon and gasket materials are not always the stock thickness, and the engine over 17-years old the factory standard ignition timing doesn't need to be the correct timing.

[ray23]

92057 92057-1403 CHAIN,CAM $64.50

No more then that is it would be worth the peace of mind.

IS that the puppy we are looking for?

[Semper]

When you experience 'backfiring' on your motorcycle, and it's not a Harley-Davidson, it's a good sign that your ignition timing is off.

Getting the ignition timing back to the perfect/correct setting is not that easy especially if the first mechanic did not marked the original setting.. with some luck a mechanic before him made timing marks, we normally use red, blue even black permanent markers. So you can open the cover and look if you can see some timing markings/setting...

Don't experimenting with your timing set-up as the wrong timing can ruin your engine beyond repair in a few seconds...

Normally the manufacturer make these marks. I have never seen an engine without timing marks.

I agree, but in a country as Thailand where parts are being recycled, cylinder heads resurfacing is not uncommon and gasket materials are not always the stock thickness, and the engine over 17-years old the factory standard ignition timing doesn't need to be the correct timing.

Hmmm.... can't see what the thickness of the headsurface or gasket thickness has anything to do with the timing. Unless you cut the head so much that the chain would be too long.

Edited June 28, 2012 by Semper

[Richard-BKK]

When you experience 'backfiring' on your motorcycle, and it's not a Harley-Davidson, it's a good sign that your ignition timing is off.

Getting the ignition timing back to the perfect/correct setting is not that easy especially if the first mechanic did not marked the original setting.. with some luck a mechanic before him made timing marks, we normally use red, blue even black permanent markers. So you can open the cover and look if you can see some timing markings/setting...

Don't experimenting with your timing set-up as the wrong timing can ruin your engine beyond repair in a few seconds...

Normally the manufacturer make these marks. I have never seen an engine without timing marks.

I agree, but in a country as Thailand where parts are being recycled, cylinder heads resurfacing is not uncommon and gasket materials are not always the stock thickness, and the engine over 17-years old the factory standard ignition timing doesn't need to be the correct timing.

Hmmm.... can't see what the thickness of the headsurface or gasket thickness has anything to do with the timing. Unless you cut the head so much that the chain would be too long.

Often when Thai mechanics resurface the cylinder or cylinder head, they create automatically an higher compression ratio, this high compression ratios can be suppressed by retarding the ignition and richening the mixture.

It's not the first time I've encountered this on an older motorcycle in Thailand on which several 'local' mechanics had worked on.... So probably a standard thing.

In Thailand I have seen the weirdest things, you would not believe me if I told you... Basically we cannot even be sure that all parts of the 17-years old Vulcan are Kawasaki parts...

Edited June 28, 2012 by Richard-BKK

[Semper]

Sorry, I thought we were talking about camshaft timing here.

[Richard-BKK]

Sorry, I thought we were talking about camshaft timing here.

Yes, sorry I was also talking about the ignition, as the engine also seems to backfire and that is a good sign that the ignition timing is off...

[ray23]

Sorry, I thought we were talking about camshaft timing here.

actually all the parts used on teh Bike are OEM parts. I'm the third owner. I bouhgt it from a friend. So I have been around it for many years. No resurfacing nn the heads just new head gaskets. Everything was checked out by a farrang machinist. A cylender hone was all that was needed.

But when you consider the first guy thought he could make headgaskets I know where you are coming rf from. That was enough so the valves dented the pistons. Then the rebuild began, the first one this bike had.