sunshinegirl Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 I think with all the newbuilds going on the market will become over saturated especially the hundreds of matchboxes they are starting to build in Jomtien beside The Park. Look whats happened in Spain people thought they could make a quick buck and bought property on a extra mortgage to resell and are left with white elephants when the market took a downturn. The banks are now in trouble being left with it all. Yesterday in the news in uk they were showing apts that were supposed to sell for 265k euros and were not even selling at 70k. If it is purely to make money I would forget it. Fees and upkeep would outway any profit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phl Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 If you have the money to buy, you buy Are you forgetting those who have the money but dont want to buy at current prices because they are way over the top? Not really, most if not all people i know who have spare money or money to invest have bought already, those usually buy off the plan in the initial stages of construction and get very very cheap prices. I know 1 guy who buys entire floors before projects even started to lay foundations, he gets a really cheap rate per sqm. The moment foundation is laid and they starting to build, he can already make money, because developer prices already up by as much as 30% so he can under sell and yet still make profit. His whole operation is he sells cheaper than the developer before he even has to pay up the full amount and project is complete. Whatever he could not sell for profit, he keeps and rents out, though the profits from other units(keep in mind he buys the entire floor) already paid for the unsold units, so he does not loose anything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunshinegirl Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 If you have the money to buy, you buy Are you forgetting those who have the money but dont want to buy at current prices because they are way over the top? Not really, most if not all people i know who have spare money or money to invest have bought already, those usually buy off the plan in the initial stages of construction and get very very cheap prices. I know 1 guy who buys entire floors before projects even started to lay foundations, he gets a really cheap rate per sqm. The moment foundation is laid and they starting to build, he can already make money, because developer prices already up by as much as 30% so he can under sell and yet still make profit. His whole operation is he sells cheaper than the developer before he even has to pay up the full amount and project is complete. Whatever he could not sell for profit, he keeps and rents out, though the profits from other units(keep in mind he buys the entire floor) already paid for the unsold units, so he does not loose anything Yes I agree that is a good way to do it if you have the money and can afford to lose it. Thats what they used to do in Spain but a lot got stung when the property prices collapsed and were left with them and some never even got finished . Makin a quick buck like that is risky business in this economic climate. Wonder what will happen to the market when the Eastern block find new pastures although they do seem to have a good hold in Pattaya and Phucket. They invaded Spain at one time but were edged out by the police and authorities because of there activities.but money talks in Thailand. Unless i could afford to lose money or get a property dirt cheap then i would think twice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrel Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 I know 1 guy who buys entire floors before projects even started to lay foundations, he gets a really cheap rate per sqm. The moment foundation is laid and they starting to build, he can already make money, because developer prices already up by as much as 30% so he can under sell and yet still make profit. Yes, but he is just a Ponzi buyer making money out of the developers being unfunded. In any serious country new builds are fully-funded and no such ridiculous discounts are available. The fact that the discounts are available here is extremely worrying in itself, as it clearly indicates how horribly fragile the whole situation is. All these new buildings are being "sold" mostly to people who have no intention of retaining ownership, and this is clearly unsustainable. And none of that has any relevance to re-sales at all, only to new builds. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phl Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 (edited) I know 1 guy who buys entire floors before projects even started to lay foundations, he gets a really cheap rate per sqm. The moment foundation is laid and they starting to build, he can already make money, because developer prices already up by as much as 30% so he can under sell and yet still make profit. Yes, but he is just a Ponzi buyer making money out of the developers being unfunded. In any serious country new builds are fully-funded and no such ridiculous discounts are available. The fact that the discounts are available here is extremely worrying in itself, as it clearly indicates how horribly fragile the whole situation is. All these new buildings are being "sold" mostly to people who have no intention of retaining ownership, and this is clearly unsustainable. And none of that has any relevance to re-sales at all, only to new builds. you will find most developers sell very cheap off the plan, EVEN in developed countries. in Australia, some people made millions doing that, yes it does not last, but one who does not take risks does not drink champagne Edited June 8, 2012 by phl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PattayaParent Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 some new condo builds in Pattaya/Jomtien are now starting at 22 sq metres and many already being built are only 27/29 sq meters. I guess to keep the entry price down due to the rising cost of land. No, it's to maximise the profit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrel Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 you will find most developers sell very cheap off the plan, EVEN in developed countries. in Australia, some people made millions doing that, That says something about Australia also. In the developed countries I have lived in this does not happen, beyond the sort of small discount that one would expect to get. yes it does not last, but one who does not take risks does not drink champagne It's unsustainable, as I said. And I dont want to be involved when it finally runs out of steam, which I'm sure it will sooner or later. My bank interest and dividends pay for champagne also, and it is largely risk-free (until the entire global economy crashes and burns, in which case we can wave goodbye to just about all assets that don't involve farming land, and barbed-wire and guns to protect it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vtjforyou Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 (edited) Houses are not good investment. Only condo prices get higher, especially cheasp ones (1 or 2 millions). But do not expect you 5 millions condo to sell at higher prie before 10 years at least ! Edited June 8, 2012 by vtjforyou Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris2004 Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 I bought my 100 sq m condo at 3.4 million in 2006 (luckily when the Pound was still at 71). That equated to under 50,000 GBP which, at the time, i thought was cheap compared to what you could buy in the UK or Europe. Even if i sold now at 2.5 million with the current exchange rate i would break even. My purchase however was not an investment but just somewhere to live. I am not expecting it to rise in price. It saves me 25,000 a month on rent (with the Pound now at 48). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PattayaParent Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 I bought my 100 sq m condo at 3.4 million in 2006 (luckily when the Pound was still at 71). That equated to under 50,000 GBP which, at the time, i thought was cheap compared to what you could buy in the UK or Europe. Even if i sold now at 2.5 million with the current exchange rate i would break even. My purchase however was not an investment but just somewhere to live. I am not expecting it to rise in price. It saves me 25,000 a month on rent (with the Pound now at 48). Ditto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrel Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 It saves me 25,000 a month on rent (with the Pound now at 48). But does it? All the asking prices in Pattaya seem to be complete fantasy to me, both for sale and rent. The 65sqm sea-view unit I live in costs me 10,000B/month from which the owner pays agent's fee, cable TV and building fees. Yet he is asking 3.2MB for it for sale Agents ask 20K/month for the unit I'm in but prior to me moving in it was rarely occupied, and that's nowhere near what I'm paying, and I wouldnt pay 20K here even for a unit twice as nice as mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PattayaPhom Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Quality condos in a good location will keep their value....its the 28sqm rubbish that is being built by 2 or 3 developers where the problms will arise.....I have had my name on a waiting list for over 18 months for a unit that is in a soley Thai owned condo...they are expensive but never come on the market...lets not forget, its not Johnny foreigner that keeps the property market stable, its the domestic market....take a look at Sattahip and surrounds, many many developments sold out to Thais from the Navy bases.....and as for comparing to buying in Spain..yeah right, 25% unemployment, banking disaster that will not get their bailout and a currency that is on the brink of collapse....I know where I would sooner have my money! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrel Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 ....and as for comparing to buying in Spain..yeah right, 25% unemployment, banking disaster that will not get their bailout and a currency that is on the brink of collapse....I know where I would sooner have my money! Dont forget the upsides; you can actually own all property in your own name there, if you have an EU passport you have right of abode and the right to work there, your EU pension will be index-linked there and you qualify for social security benefits like healthcare there. None of that applies to Thailand. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morphic Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 ....and as for comparing to buying in Spain..yeah right, 25% unemployment, banking disaster that will not get their bailout and a currency that is on the brink of collapse....I know where I would sooner have my money! Dont forget the upsides; you can actually own all property in your own name there, if you have an EU passport you have right of abode and the right to work there, your EU pension will be index-linked there and you qualify for social security benefits like healthcare there. None of that applies to Thailand. The EUR is dropping fast and property in Spain and other Eurozone countries is now collapsing. In a fairly short time there will be some good opportunities to buy over there. In terms of quality and price, property there is already far better than the overpriced crap in Thailand and in addition, as you say, there will be no ownership problems in Europe as well as a far lower chance of falling victim to corrupt and incompetent property management that seem the norm here. I have the money buy in Thailand, but I think it would be a stupid mistake to do so. Much better as a foreigner to rent in Thailand and buy where the system isn't set up to fleece you, which is the case in Thailand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
somtampet Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 My experience for houses in Pattaya is the land increases in value not the bricks and mortor.Visit the land house for proof. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrel Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 ... property there is already far better than the overpriced crap in Thailand and in addition, as you say, there will be no ownership problems in Europe as well as a far lower chance of falling victim to corrupt and incompetent property management that seem the norm here. No doubt at all about the constructions being of better quality in most places in Europe, but watch out for the property scammers in Spain. They have pulled off some pretty staggering frauds, the likes of which could probably not happen here due to the Land Office being pretty competent. For example, the thousands of properties built and sold in complete illegality in Spain on non-constructible land and that has been/will soon be bulldozed by the local authority with no recompense for the foreign pigeons who bought it. It seems that Spain has finally got it's act together and this can't happen any more, but it was only a couple of years ago that it was still happening and a hell of a lot of idiots have lost a hell of a lot of money. What's the betting that many of the agents involved have moved here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pipo1000 Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 They have pulled off some pretty staggering frauds, the likes of which could probably not happen here due to the Land Office being pretty competent. Darrel please,stop drinking when you post.The only thing the land office here is competent in is getting involved in the frauds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pipo1000 Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 My experience for houses in Pattaya is the land increases in value not the bricks and mortor.Visit the land house for proof. That is how it is in every part of the world.Used bricks and mortar never rise in price,it is always only the value of the land where the building stands on that increases Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phl Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 ....and as for comparing to buying in Spain..yeah right, 25% unemployment, banking disaster that will not get their bailout and a currency that is on the brink of collapse....I know where I would sooner have my money! Dont forget the upsides; you can actually own all property in your own name there, if you have an EU passport you have right of abode and the right to work there, your EU pension will be index-linked there and you qualify for social security benefits like healthcare there. None of that applies to Thailand. The EUR is dropping fast and property in Spain and other Eurozone countries is now collapsing. In a fairly short time there will be some good opportunities to buy over there. In terms of quality and price, property there is already far better than the overpriced crap in Thailand and in addition, as you say, there will be no ownership problems in Europe as well as a far lower chance of falling victim to corrupt and incompetent property management that seem the norm here. I have the money buy in Thailand, but I think it would be a stupid mistake to do so. Much better as a foreigner to rent in Thailand and buy where the system isn't set up to fleece you, which is the case in Thailand. what ownership problems are you referring to? There are no problems to own a condo What system of fleecing? Who and how? 2 bedroom in sydney will set you back $800K+ for a condo 2 bedroom house $1 million + Same goes for most European, American countries, in Thailand you can still get a 2 bedroom in the city for $200K and under The quality of building?!!!! heard many stories of condo's collapsing or breaking into half in Thailand??? have plenty stories from Oz, i am sure from countries as well Property's are worth what people are willing to pay for it, for as long as there is a demand the prices will keep climbing. Pattaya is still under developed with acres of land available. Bangkokians are now starting to buy up in Pattaya and surrounding areas, because of the floods in BKK and being more affordable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrel Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Darrel please,stop drinking when you post.The only thing the land office here is competent in is getting involved in the frauds. Perhaps I was unduly generous. Even so I don't see illegal construction scams on that scale happening here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrel Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 what ownership problems are you referring to? There are no problems to own a condo How about the 51% Thai quota that is often sold to foreigners in company name, without them being made aware of what they might be getting themselves into? Idem for houses, with the added spice of the house possibly ending up in some girlfriend's name anyway. The quality of building?!!!! Whilst the basic structure of Thai condos is probably fairly sound the same cannot be said for the structure of many houses or the interiors of condos and houses. Many new buildings here would be illegal in Europe on several counts and would never pass a building inspection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pipo1000 Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 (edited) Darrel please,stop drinking when you post.The only thing the land office here is competent in is getting involved in the frauds. Perhaps I was unduly generous. Even so I don't see illegal construction scams on that scale happening here. And why don't you see them happening on that scale?Answer : Because they are kept quiet because the government is involved. How about that scam about the public land encroaching in Pakchong which hit the headlines lately,or the VT7 to come closer to home. Because nobody knows about them YET,doesn't mean they aren't happening on a huge scale. Edit for speeling corections and some more Edited June 9, 2012 by pipo1000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baloo22 Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Darrel please,stop drinking when you post.The only thing the land office here is competent in is getting involved in the frauds. Perhaps I was unduly generous. Even so I don't see illegal construction scams on that scale happening here. I don't know if you have seen this before. Anyway, the more info on these scams that can be put out, perhaps the more people can be warned. [media=] [/media] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PattayaParent Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 Darrel please,stop drinking when you post.The only thing the land office here is competent in is getting involved in the frauds. Perhaps I was unduly generous. Even so I don't see illegal construction scams on that scale happening here. VT7? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LennyW Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 Darrel please,stop drinking when you post.The only thing the land office here is competent in is getting involved in the frauds. Perhaps I was unduly generous. Even so I don't see illegal construction scams on that scale happening here. VT7? VT7 was not a scam persay, people got what they paid for, the legality of the construction is another matter though!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phl Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 what ownership problems are you referring to? There are no problems to own a condo How about the 51% Thai quota that is often sold to foreigners in company name, without them being made aware of what they might be getting themselves into? Idem for houses, with the added spice of the house possibly ending up in some girlfriend's name anyway. The quality of building?!!!! Whilst the basic structure of Thai condos is probably fairly sound the same cannot be said for the structure of many houses or the interiors of condos and houses. Many new buildings here would be illegal in Europe on several counts and would never pass a building inspection. sorry but how does 51% thai ownership quota affects you? There are hundreds if not thousands clause in every contract in every country. Again take Oz as an example, contract is something like 300 pages and it is buyers responsibility to check everything, this is why lawyers are always involved. If foreigner is stupid enough just to go ahead without checks, there is no one to blame but himself. Putting it into gf name or whatever else is a very poor excuse for failing to perform the checks yourself There is also no point comparing what is legal or illegal in terms of construction in comparison to Europe, because if you happy to buy in Europe you buy there, but if you want to invest in Thailand, you buy in Thailand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrel Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 Those who mentioned VT7 have a good point, but they haven't bulldozed it down yet. The illegal construction scams were on a much larger scale in Spain as they involved thousands if not tens of thousands of individual houses which were built illegally and by all accounts will end up by being razed. The more run of the mill cons that happen in Thailand are not really in the same league, and tend to involve people paying for something that they never get rather than paying for something, getting it and then having it taken away because it should never have been built in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pipo1000 Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 Those who mentioned VT7 have a good point, but they haven't bulldozed it down yet. The illegal construction scams were on a much larger scale in Spain as they involved thousands if not tens of thousands of individual houses which were built illegally and by all accounts will end up by being razed. The more run of the mill cons that happen in Thailand are not really in the same league, and tend to involve people paying for something that they never get rather than paying for something, getting it and then having it taken away because it should never have been built in the first place. So in fact Thailand is favorable in that concern that the buyers are saved all the hassle of losing their property after they received it,they just don't build it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rimmer Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 Please stay on topic. The topic is not about illegal construction and scams it is asking if the price of condos and houses will drop or rise even more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
23962323 Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 There will always be a demand ,as far as Thais go for property, they can ditch them at a moments notice too,no problems,...cheaper than cheap mortgages,as long as they have a job,thought of 300 baht a day increase for most workers in Thailand has gone up in smoke though The whole Thai ,Indian , Chinese economy is being held up on fresh air,no buyers in US or EU spells big trouble for Asian exporting countries,just takes time to trickle back to home base. The thought of things getting better in economies in Europe is a pipe dream,it will take decades to get their act together,the money supply just ain't there , never will be,and more importantly If thoughts of buying any property in Thailand is a good investment I'd think Id be booking a one way ticket to the nearest nut house It is the Russians in the Pattaya region keeping the real estate going here,in time that will implode,anyway who in their right minds want to share a condo block with them,drink with them ,eat with them,no thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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