Woman Gunned Down At Phuket Market

[Andelu]

...I have lived in thailand for only two weeks and am shocked at the number and variety of attacks on people, shootings, stabbings, muggings...

u will get used to it, believe me...

Nobody should get used to violence... I have been living in Thailand for over 16 years and never got used to hear about it or see violence.. and I don't think anybody should. You downplay violence as if it was not important.. may be its time to become aware of your thinking?!

[jshorts]

Sorry, but do we know that the lady was killed, I cannot see it in the report.

you are correct it only says she was gunned down not the outcome, I have lived in thailand for only two weeks and am shocked at the number and variety of attacks on people, shootings, stabbings, muggings you name it have read about it.

More to come!

[jshorts]

It's hard to see why the "foreign 'boyfriend'" bit has any business in an article about the vicious murder of a local seamstress.

Background information provided for the speculation of TV members.

[KeyserSoze01]

According to the wisdom of Wikipedia, which has a comprehensive chart of the firearm-related deaths in over 60 countries, you are about 3 times more likely to be killed by a firearm in Thailand compared to the USA, and about 60 times more likely to end that way in Thailand than in the UK. Thailand ranks 8th behind some notoriously dangerous countries >>>

http://en.wikipedia....ated_death_rate

( Per 100,000 of population in one year.)

There are lies, dam_ned lies and then statistics.

Here's a reference showing Thailand as number 3 in the world for death by firearm. Not sure I would trust Wiki.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir-crime-murders-with-firearms

[Sateev]

"There are lies, dam_ned lies and then statistics."

And then there are those who can't interpret statistics.

That list was total firearm murders, NOT per capita, which would be the more meaningful way to measure the risk...

[HaleySabai]

The Thai News is pretty good at printing crimes for all to read unlike the West where many crimes you never hear about...

A friend that worked at a news agency in my hometown, Edmonchuk,Alberta, said if they were to report everything that went on in the city people would be too spooked to even go outside their house!!

The crime rate in Thailand is not so bad as many parts of the "developed" world......but the corruption,unfortunately, is a way of life here.

[impulse]

According to the wisdom of Wikipedia, which has a comprehensive chart of the firearm-related deaths in over 60 countries, you are about 3 times more likely to be killed by a firearm in Thailand compared to the USA, and about 60 times more likely to end that way in Thailand than in the UK. Thailand ranks 8th behind some notoriously dangerous countries >>>

http://en.wikipedia....ated_death_rate

( Per 100,000 of population in one year.)

That truism (2nd most dangerous......) can be filed alongside the myth that the Great Wall of China can be seen from Space (it can't). The numbers are high for the US, because the US justice system is quite effective at catching, convicting and incarcerating criminals. If Thailand had a modicum of such a well oiled system, a significant proportion of its men would be locked up. Plus, in Thailand there are no legal repercussions for being a deadbeat dad - even if a man has abandoned dozens of children (he's sired) and their mothers. Same for date-rape or harboring a criminal - neither of which are considered crimes in Thailand.

These.

Anybody believing different might want to get off the pink tourist cloud.

To those questioning my own posts indicating I believe my chances of being randomly killed in Thailand are higher than in the USA- I thank these folks for corroboration.

For those thinking I live in fear here, I don't. Safety statistics are based on deaths per huge numbers. The firearms statistics referenced above are based on deaths per 100,000 population. Auto fatality statistics are based on deaths per 100 million miles driven. I'm sure there are statistics for people getting electrocuted, and for committing suicide under suspicious circumstances, but I'm not going to spend the time looking them up.

So, though I still believe my chances of getting randomly killed in Thailand are higher than in the USA, they're still pretty low and a reasonable risk to collect the paycheck my company mails to me here where I have, in fact, been living for a little over a year (that's for the guy who wondered whether I was a tourist who hasn't spent any time in Thailand).

And for the guy who offered to help me scrounge up the money to go home: Thanks, but no thanks. I'm doing fine.

Edited June 9, 2012 by impulse

[Geekfreaklover]

The bottom line will be she has not paid the debts she owes.I lived in Phuket from 1988 to 2001,And the number of people that sort of disappeared from owing money(mostly gambling debts) was quite high. Then Phuket was quite to what it is now. Been back twice the last time last year.Not a nice place now even some of the locals i have known for years are fed up with all the problems happening there gambling and drugs.. Hua Hin is a wonderful place to live the local Thai's are some of the nicest people i have met in Thailand. You get problems every where in the world.But let them sort things out their way.

This was my immidiate thought too. Unpaid gambling debts. Money owed to the mob. Quite common occurance.

[Semper]

There is always a motive; always. If there two men went into a home to shoot someone, there is a definetly a motive; it certainly could not

been robbery, after all, how much money could a seamstress make.

It will be interesting to find out what the facts are.

"it certainly could not

been robbery, after all, how much money could a seamstress make."

Did you miss the 'foreign boyfriend' part?

[NamKangMan]

The bottom line will be she has not paid the debts she owes.I lived in Phuket from 1988 to 2001,And the number of people that sort of disappeared from owing money(mostly gambling debts) was quite high. Then Phuket was quite to what it is now. Been back twice the last time last year.Not a nice place now even some of the locals i have known for years are fed up with all the problems happening there gambling and drugs.. Hua Hin is a wonderful place to live the local Thai's are some of the nicest people i have met in Thailand. You get problems every where in the world.But let them sort things out their way.

I had a strong suspicion it was money-related. Another scenario: more than a few farang have had death threats (or been murdered) when money was not paid as expected to a Thai builder. Farang can justify withholding payment for shoddy or incomplete work, but the builder sees it differently - sometimes to a fatal degree. Admittedly, just speculation on my part, but not implausible.

Coming from the second most dangerous country in the world, Thailand is rather safe ranked at number 16.

Which ranking are you referring to, sources please?

That truism (2nd most dangerous......) can be filed alongside the myth that the Great Wall of China can be seen from Space (it can't). The numbers are high for the US, because the US justice system is quite effective at catching, convicting and incarcerating criminals. If Thailand had a modicum of such a well oiled system, a significant proportion of its men would be locked up. Plus, in Thailand there are no legal repercussions for being a deadbeat dad - even if a man has abandoned dozens of children (he's sired) and their mothers. Same for date-rape or harboring a criminal - neither of which are considered crimes in Thailand.

I can see my house in my home country from space - it's called "Google Earth." Try it some time. :)

Certain US Government Intelligence Agencies can read a motor vehicle number plate from space. Fact.

I'm quite sure you can see The Great wall of China from space. :)

Edited June 10, 2012 by NamKangMan

[simple1]

"There are lies, dam_ned lies and then statistics."

And then there are those who can't interpret statistics.

That list was total firearm murders, NOT per capita, which would be the more meaningful way to measure the risk...

Not quite sure what you're trying to say. Stats are from 2002 - Thailand with population of 60 million+ more than 20,000 deaths by gunshot - this seams excessive as equates to 55 deaths by gun shot per day. USA population of approx 320 million with 9,000 plus deaths by gunshot. Are you suggesting a more meaningful comparison in by cross matching by per capita income? However as you know USA population at the poverty level a few years ago was around 40 million

[maidu]

According to the wisdom of Wikipedia, which has a comprehensive chart of the firearm-related deaths in over 60 countries, you are about 3 times more likely to be killed by a firearm in Thailand compared to the USA, and about 60 times more likely to end that way in Thailand than in the UK. Thailand ranks 8th behind some notoriously dangerous countries >>>

http://en.wikipedia....ated_death_rate

( Per 100,000 of population in one year.)

There are lies, dam_ned lies and then statistics.

Here's a reference showing Thailand as number 3 in the world for death by firearm. Not sure I would trust Wiki.

http://www.nationmas...s-with-firearms

Looked at the chart. Wow. Thailand with 20,032 deaths by firearms. Over twice what the US had (9,369) in the same period. ...and Thailand's population is about 1/6th the US's, so Thailand's death rate by firearms is about 12 times greater than the US's.

[stevenl]

Congratulations on one of the most purile pathetic posts ever on this site! Those rose tinted specs must be extremely comfortable.

Rose tinted glasses are really much more comfortable than black tinted.

[avalonmick]

Sorry, but do we know that the lady was killed, I cannot see it in the report.

you are correct it only says she was gunned down not the outcome, I have lived in thailand for only two weeks and am shocked at the number and variety of attacks on people, shootings, stabbings, muggings you name it have read about it.

The Thai News is pretty good at printing crimes for all to read unlike the West where many crimes you never hear about...

Yes, what the thai media doesn't report on is all the corruption and other white collar crimes that are really messing the country up.

[NamKangMan]

According to the wisdom of Wikipedia, which has a comprehensive chart of the firearm-related deaths in over 60 countries, you are about 3 times more likely to be killed by a firearm in Thailand compared to the USA, and about 60 times more likely to end that way in Thailand than in the UK. Thailand ranks 8th behind some notoriously dangerous countries >>>

http://en.wikipedia....ated_death_rate

( Per 100,000 of population in one year.)

That truism (2nd most dangerous......) can be filed alongside the myth that the Great Wall of China can be seen from Space (it can't). The numbers are high for the US, because the US justice system is quite effective at catching, convicting and incarcerating criminals. If Thailand had a modicum of such a well oiled system, a significant proportion of its men would be locked up. Plus, in Thailand there are no legal repercussions for being a deadbeat dad - even if a man has abandoned dozens of children (he's sired) and their mothers. Same for date-rape or harboring a criminal - neither of which are considered crimes in Thailand.

These.

Anybody believing different might want to get off the pink tourist cloud.

To those questioning my own posts indicating I believe my chances of being randomly killed in Thailand are higher than in the USA- I thank these folks for corroboration.

For those thinking I live in fear here, I don't. Safety statistics are based on deaths per huge numbers. The firearms statistics referenced above are based on deaths per 100,000 population. Auto fatality statistics are based on deaths per 100 million miles driven. I'm sure there are statistics for people getting electrocuted, and for committing suicide under suspicious circumstances, but I'm not going to spend the time looking them up.

So, though I still believe my chances of getting randomly killed in Thailand are higher than in the USA, they're still pretty low and a reasonable risk to collect the paycheck my company mails to me here where I have, in fact, been living for a little over a year (that's for the guy who wondered whether I was a tourist who hasn't spent any time in Thailand).

And for the guy who offered to help me scrounge up the money to go home: Thanks, but no thanks. I'm doing fine.

I would suggest the risk of you being "randomly killed" on Phuket by motor vehicle accident is a lot higher than by being killed by being shot - this is the real risk we ALL face here.

Edited June 10, 2012 by NamKangMan

[impulse]

I would suggest the risk of you being "randomly killed" on Phuket by motor vehicle accident is a lot higher than by being killed by being shot - this is the real risk we all face here.

Agreed that driving is hazardous. In fact, Thailand has 118 fatalities per 100,000 vehicles and the USA has 15 fatalities per 100,000 vehicles.

Source: http://en.wikipedia....ated_death_rate

But, statistically, with 20,032 firearms murders, and 12,069 traffic fatalities, it appears firearms kill a lot more people in Thailand than traffic accidents. Still, I suspect you're right that traffic accidents are more random than murder by firearms.

Source from Post #66 above:

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir-crime-murders-with-firearms

Disclaimer: I haven't vetted either source.

Edited June 10, 2012 by impulse

[NamKangMan]

I would suggest the risk of you being "randomly killed" on Phuket by motor vehicle accident is a lot higher than by being killed by being shot - this is the real risk we all face here.

Agreed, In fact, Thailand has 118 fatalities per 100,000 vehicles and the USA has 15 fatalities per 100,000 vehicles.

Source: http://en.wikipedia....ated_death_rate

I think the road death statistics for Phuket would be a lot higher than the Thai national average.

You can be living a quiet life in your retirement here, minding your own business, but, you WILL have to share the roads here with Thai drivers of heavy vehicles who have not had proper driver training and licencing and who are using amphetamine to stay awake, drunk tourists, locals and bar girls and also the poor driving conditions, such as the heavy traffic, corrupt police/law enforcement, poor road surface, and the heavy rain.

Other than your age/health - I would suggest being killed on the road here would be your highest risk of death by misadventure and that risk is very REAL.

Edited June 10, 2012 by NamKangMan

[Unkomoncents]

Sorry, but do we know that the lady was killed, I cannot see it in the report.

you are correct it only says she was gunned down not the outcome, I have lived in thailand for only two weeks and am shocked at the number and variety of attacks on people, shootings, stabbings, muggings you name it have read about it.

Every state in the USA has news like this everyday. Thailand is safer than the USA any day.

Violence is violence in all parts of the world. Maybe Thailand is to scary for you?

Thailand has more per capital gun homicides than the United States.

[brianP]

At least here in Thailand the violence usually has motive , be it jealousy,money,pride etc. In USA we have many acts of random violence just to be a murderer or thug and nothing else, and if you think it's bad here, go to some of the other first world countries that give a slap on the wrist justice and you could become a victim too. I remember the day's when the foreigner(farangs) were the victims and not the perpetrators of crimes. Foreign crooks from everywhere are gathering like cockroaches here now and wonder why crime is rising here?

[Unkomoncents]

Sorry, but do we know that the lady was killed, I cannot see it in the report.

you are correct it only says she was gunned down not the outcome, I have lived in thailand for only two weeks and am shocked at the number and variety of attacks on people, shootings, stabbings, muggings you name it have read about it.

Actually I have lived in Thailand for three years, and have never experienced or seen such, and rarely see anything like his reported outside places such as this. My experience is that Bangkok at least is far safer than the US... I hope the lady will recover.

You're comparing a city to a country. That's like trying to compare Earth to the Milky Way galaxy.

[NamKangMan]

Sorry, but do we know that the lady was killed, I cannot see it in the report.

you are correct it only says she was gunned down not the outcome, I have lived in thailand for only two weeks and am shocked at the number and variety of attacks on people, shootings, stabbings, muggings you name it have read about it.

Every state in the USA has news like this everyday. Thailand is safer than the USA any day.

Violence is violence in all parts of the world. Maybe Thailand is to scary for you?

You feel safe here because you are a foreigner living in Thailand, amongst Thai's, and Thai culture. Statistics prove that if you are a Thai, living in Thailand, there is a higher risk of you being shot and killed than being an American living in America.

[Unkomoncents]

At least here in Thailand the violence usually has motive , be it jealousy,money,pride etc. In USA we have many acts of random violence just to be a murderer or thug and nothing else, and if you think it's bad here, go to some of the other first world countries that give a slap on the wrist justice and you could become a victim too. I remember the day's when the foreigner(farangs) were the victims and not the perpetrators of crimes. Foreign crooks from everywhere are gathering like cockroaches here now and wonder why crime is rising here?

True, but you can't deny that Thailand attracts a certain 'clientele'. The Kingdom is still a favorite for international fugitives and criminals of all stripes. That's in large part because of a complete lack of law enforcement (coupled with a venality that extends from the grassroots level all the way to the very top). I don't know of any industrialized country that is as lawless as Thailand. Please name one for me, if you do, and provide me with an example of a murderer, rapist, whoever getting a "slap on the wrist" in said country. If I remember correctly, the United States imprisons more people per capita than any other country in the world. In fact, many in the US complain that THAT is one of America's many problems: the over-enforcement of laws, particularly when minorities are involved.

If you have any questions regarding these assertions, refer to this article:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/21/world/asia/21iht-thailand21.html

[GeorgeO]

Sorry, but do we know that the lady was killed, I cannot see it in the report.

you are correct it only says she was gunned down not the outcome, I have lived in thailand for only two weeks and am shocked at the number and variety of attacks on people, shootings, stabbings, muggings you name it have read about it.

The Thai News is pretty good at printing crimes for all to read unlike the West where many crimes you never hear about...

Actually I think you are 100% wrong and that the opposite is the case. Extra-judicial killings have run into the thousands in this country in the past decade. And also bear in mind that a significant proportion of organised crime is orchestrated by the BiB - in these instances there is no crime and nothing to report. But that doesn't mean it didn't happen .-..

I'm afraid I have to agree. Thailand is far from the awfully nice place that outsiders seem to believe.

A very simple analogy to my home country is that I wouldn't hesitate to stop someone from jumping a queue, but here, the 'offender' would be waiting outside with five or six of his friends to beat me within an inch of my life. That seems to be the value of life here ... nothing! You certainly wouldn't want to get into debt with a Thai person..!!

I therefore believe that the best way to survive here is by keeping myself to myself.

[GeorgeO]

The Thai News is pretty good at printing crimes for all to read unlike the West where many crimes you never hear about...

A friend that worked at a news agency in my hometown, Edmonchuk,Alberta, said if they were to report everything that went on in the city people would be too spooked to even go outside their house!!

The crime rate in Thailand is not so bad as many parts of the "developed" world......but the corruption,unfortunately, is a way of life here.

A policeman friend of mine here In Bangkok said essentially the same thing about Thailand. We have no real idea how many more crimes of this nature occur in this country and never get reported. The crime rate here is far worse than we know, and, I suspect, much worse than in the "developed" world!

[stevenl]

A very simple analogy to my home country is that I wouldn't hesitate to stop someone from jumping a queue, but here, the 'offender' would be waiting outside with five or six of his friends to beat me within an inch of my life. That seems to be the value of life here ... nothing! You certainly wouldn't want to get into debt with a Thai person..!!

When somebody jumps a queue I tell them off, same as I would do back home. And I have never been surprised by people waiting for me outside. Living a normal life here and not living in fear is easily possible.

[Orac]

I would suggest the risk of you being "randomly killed" on Phuket by motor vehicle accident is a lot higher than by being killed by being shot - this is the real risk we all face here.

Agreed that driving is hazardous. In fact, Thailand has 118 fatalities per 100,000 vehicles and the USA has 15 fatalities per 100,000 vehicles.

Source: http://en.wikipedia....ated_death_rate

But, statistically, with 20,032 firearms murders, and 12,069 traffic fatalities, it appears firearms kill a lot more people in Thailand than traffic accidents. Still, I suspect you're right that traffic accidents are more random than murder by firearms.

Source from Post #66 above:

http://www.nationmas...s-with-firearms

Disclaimer: I haven't vetted either source.

The nationmaster stats have been questioned on here before - the total homicide rate for Thailand is somewhere around 8 to 9 per 100,000 which would give a total murder count of 5000-6000 per year so the murder by firearm would be a smaller subset of this figure. http://www.unodc.org/documents/data-and-analysis/IHS-rates-05012009.pdf

[impulse]

The nationmaster stats have been questioned on here before - the total homicide rate for Thailand is somewhere around 8 to 9 per 100,000 which would give a total murder count of 5000-6000 per year so the murder by firearm would be a smaller subset of this figure.http://www.unodc.org/documents/data-and-analysis/IHS-rates-05012009.pdf

Good info and I thank you for that.

According to the UN report, the data they published was submitted by the countries listed. I'm not so sure I'd trust those numbers any more than I would trust the NationMaster statistics.

Still food for thought. That's why I enjoy threads like this that meander off topic...

[KarenBravo]

Latest news on another news source is that the police are looking for the foreign boyfriend who was caught on CCTV fleeing the scene.

[maipompui]

Latest news on another news source is that the police are looking for the foreign boyfriend who was caught on CCTV fleeing the scene.

Nope....read it again....

[stevenl]

Latest news on another news source is that the police are looking for the foreign boyfriend who was caught on CCTV fleeing the scene.

Yes, they are looking for him, but apparently he was not directly involved in the shooting.

Would this mean one person less for the TV party?