Expats In Thailand: Is Your Goal Here To "Integrate" Into Thai Society?

[tinfoilhat]

We both work thank you! .. and we dont live in a little community either. I do however wonder how you manage to survive Thailand with so much inbuilt negativity.

Most nations have inbuilt prejudices which includes France as well may I add. The best way of coping with it is to laugh, otherwise the bitterness eats away at you!

Oh I am negative because people point my 40 size feet and call me farang ?

I see

And when they piss on my doorstep i should thank them ?

The Japanese call us "gaijin ".

I get called a Pom in Australia . The French get called frogs.. The Italians get called wops.. the list is endless. I couldnt give a dam_n whether I am called a farang or not.

Our features are different, our noses can be the source of amusement but I seriously wouldnt take offence!

As far as urinating on your doorstep. place some Bourganvillia in prominent places where their appendages would be given a nasty prick!

Read before answering

it's not about being called farang

it's about being pointed out, mocked, ostracized and humiliated by people about what makes us different from them.

I lived in the UK for 7 years (quite a time in Clapham actually), in Japan, in India I never had any problem I never minded being called a frog I think that's cute, what I am talking about is a total different ball game

personally, i have heard "frog" used with far more venom than farang. "frog" when it occurs is usually prefaced by another f-word.

more to the point, i often find you interesting and amusing, but you are tilting at those windmills much harder today.

[samsiam]

Nice manners too.

[kerryk]

End of discussion.

When you are aggressive to people don't pretend they don't have a right to answer and you to have the last word

On a bright note at least he didn't say. "Next."

[aneliane]

, but you are tilting at those windmills much harder today.

Tilting at windmills is an English idiom which means attacking imaginary enemies. The word “tilt”, in this context, comes from jousting.

The phrase is sometimes used to describe confrontations where adversaries are incorrectly perceived, or to courses of action that are based on misinterpreted or misapplied heroic, romantic, or idealistic justifications.

Thank you for your comments and I like your cat in a tinfoil hat BTW

I wish some people comments were imaginary here, unfortunately I have learned though the hard way here that if you ignore insults here (bigot/not a woman/racist/crazy/insane /etc) they just stay there.

And not only do they stay there but the ones who proffered them tend to think they can get away with it, so they come back again and again.

It is always the same 4 or 5 people and it's been 3 months now and yes I am starting to get fed up with it.

[canuckamuck]

Progress

[kerryk]

, but you are tilting at those windmills much harder today.

Tilting at windmills is an English idiom which means attacking imaginary enemies. The word “tilt”, in this context, comes from jousting.

The phrase is sometimes used to describe confrontations where adversaries are incorrectly perceived, or to courses of action that are based on misinterpreted or misapplied heroic, romantic, or idealistic justifications.

Thank you for your comments and I like your cat in a tinfoil hat BTW

I wish some people comments were imaginary here, unfortunately I have learned though the hard way here that if you ignore insults here (bigot/not a woman/racist/crazy/insane /etc) they just stay there.

And not only do they stay there but the ones who proffered them tend to think they can get away with it, so they come back again and again.

It is always the same 4 or 5 people and it's been 3 months now and yes I am starting to get fed up with it.

Anytime you want to say anything negative about Thailand; simply go to the news forum and blame it on the current government. You will have 20 new friends in a matter of minutes. Anything goes. Try it!

[StreetCowboy]

The point about tilting at windmills is not that the enemy is imaginary - fancy if we had to stick to battling only our real foes, and not also those that existed solely in our heads. The point about tilting at windmills is that they will always win, because they are the epitome of rural industry, immune to the point of a lance, and they have no sense of honur or justice.

SC

EDIT: But at least they can spell. "Honur" - I mean really, what kind of half-wits do I take my audience for, eh?

Of course, "honur" is a type for 'sense of chivalry'

[inthepink]

Did you even read my post before replying? I didn't mention bars at all so I am not sure what you mean by saying you don't hang out in bars and certainly not the type I was referring to....as I didn't refer to bars at all. The fact that you think all working class Thais are involved in the pay-4-play industry underlines how ridiculous your views really areYou can babble on about how successful you are and how many Thai people you socialise with as much as you like but if you truly believe that all Thai people have no ability to reason (you don't have to say "reason logically" that's tautological, which you would know if your education was as superior as you seem to think it is) and that they have no knowledge of anything at all, then you must employ, and socialise with, some prize idiots. Furthermore, corruption is not the only path to success in this country. It might be how you conduct your business and it might even be common but it is by no means the only way to succeed in Thailand.I have no interest in being more Thai than the Thais or chasing whores (which is why I didn't touch on those subjects in my post). The people I truly detest are those who make ridiculous generalisations about entire nations.By the way, I'd be really interested to know what value you think you are adding to Thailand - a pompous claim if ever I heard one?

1) Yes I did read your post. You insinuated bars unless you are presuming I stand on the corner of a street and chat with the motorbike boys or hang out with house builders. You personally can never fully integrate into the middle class / Hiso elements no matter what you think because you are the farang, nothing more, nothing less. Don't kid yourself

2) I never said I was successful; you read this into my statements. Maybe you should replace your glasses with ones made outside of Thailand, or remove the hemp dust that is gathering on them from your robes

3) I guess you have first hand knowledge of the Thai education system them; please enlighten us about their seminars and classes where they are encouraged to reason logically, challenge and question what they are taught as opposed to writing it down, memorising it prior to regurgitating it in an exam. You might struggle here though...

4) As for your corruption claims (as a Brit, If I get caught involved in anything like that I will face charges in the UK, so no mr Obnoxious spurious accusation thrower, I do not get involved with that) 80% of Thailand agrees with it and thinks it is great in a poll of Thai nationals, not the "I will wear thai clothes to look like a Thai because I am so insecure about myself"...oh sorry, that's Jurgen. Have you ever tried competing fairly in a country where your ersatz competitors throw bribes about and it's a line you will not cross? I doubt it. I would be more successful if I did but it's not someone where I will go. The only Farangs who have tried to extor money from me are those that are trying to be fully integrated into Thai society. So is this you as well then?

5) If pompous includes paying my full taxes, generating revenue overseas that get's brought into Thailand and not funnelled overseas, paying social security and being a good employer, then I will accept that.

So do you not add value to Thailand? All this from a guy who has been floating around Thailand for 9 years on various tourist Visa's (according to your other thread). How exactly do you add value to the country you now call home when you are not even living here legitimately but actually on one long holiday OR working somewhere and not paying your taxes but enjoying the tax paid facilities here in Thailand. Clown.

I have been here on various visas, not only tourist visas. Yet again, in your haste to prove a point you demonstrate your inability to comprehend simple English. As far as the Thai authorities are concerned I am here legitimately, so there's no need for you to get your panties in a twist about my visas.

As an investor whose income is derived entirely from overseas, I'd guess I add more value than you, but I'm not such a pompous <deleted> as to make such ridiculous claims. I live here for my own benefit not for that of the Thai people. I didn't insinuate bars in any way whatsoever in my original post. That came straight from your one-dimensional mind.

I have no need to try to extort money from you or anybody else. As a self-professed unsuccessful businessman, what would you have that I could possibly desire?

I do not have first hand knowledge of the Thai education system but I do have first hand knowledge of the British education system and the fact that it produces ignorant people such as you is reason enough for me to query the value of an education in the United Kingdom.

Perhaps you have been away too long because the last time I visited the UK it was not full to the brim with people discussing world politics and history in a meaningful way.

I'm not quite sure why you keep referring to people wearing Thai clothes - seems to be a bee you have in your bonnet.

Regarding the facilities that are paid for by taxes that I am supposed to be taking advantage of without having contributed, perhaps you could enlighten me as to exactly what you are referring?

I'd rather be a clown than a bitter old fool by the way. At least clowns are entertaining, you are most certainly not.

Last but not least, I never said I was trying to integrate, I merely questioned the opinions of somebody who claims that no Thai people have any learning or the ability to reason.

[inthepink]

Ouch.

I think someone struck a nerve, and for once it wasn't me.

Still, it didnt take long for this interesting thread to degenerate into the usual Thai-bashing bonanza, did it?

Not really. I don't hate Thai's or Thailand or why else would I live here. The topic asked for (incited) if and why you would integrate or not. I put my points out there only to be accused of being a whorehound and a racist of which I am neither. Strikes me that a lot of the BS farangs go through to live and work here are brought about by the country to stop those who just loiter here on tourist visas and believe that their frugal spending of their savings is actually contributing to the country. I do not agree with them, and their presence here makes life harder for those of us doing things the proper way. Inthepink is a self proclaimed one of these types (on his other thread charting his woes about getting his next visa to loiter here) and yet has the temerity to look down on and insult someone who is trying to make things work whilst applying the ethics and morals he was brought up with.

Thai-bashing Bonanza? Was that the sequel to the hit TV show? We all have a voice, yet in Thailand we can not be heard. So that is why people come to TV I think.

I am getting bored of your personal attacks, especially as they are entirely without merit. I generate money I don't live on savings (and I don't live particularly frugally) and I have no woes as far as obtaining visas goes. I posted a trip report to aid anybody else planning to visit Vientiane, not to chart my woes. My presence in this country does not make your life harder in any way whatsoever. You seem to be one of these sanctimonious fools who tries to blame everybody else for his relative lack of success.

Once again, nobody called you a "whorehound" (what a revolting turn of phrase). You dreamed that up so you could get on your soapbox.

As to your question of why you live here, it's probably because you believe yourself to be superior to the locals and enjoy looking down on them. Delusional is the word I am looking for I think.

[Ron19]

I still can't help but chuckle a bit at the concept of someone being offended because an innocent child saw someone's big feet and called them a farang.

It's a rather surreal incident.

Yeah i would too, because this is not what happened

This is born from your twisted and perverted imagination

Sorry you can't change things around and criticize me, I am not as stupid as you might think

You may not be,but you are certainly not showing that here.

how so?

It tells people something when you are the only one who is right and everyone else is wrong.Take a leaf out of your own book and practice what you preaching.

[Bagwan]

I think you needed to add one more option:

* Will do the best I can.

No, that's covered. If your GOAL is integration and your feeling is I'll do the best I can to reach that (impossible) goal, then your answer should OBVIOUSLY be YES. Just as I suspected the comments are more about the structure of the poll question than the actual topic. How drearily predictable.

If in your wisdom you predicted that the responses would be dreary, why set up the poll in the first place? You haven't been associating with Government Ministers and Civil Servants and become afflicted with the malady that they all display symptoms of, have you?

[aneliane]

It tells people something when you are the only one who is right and everyone else is wrong.Take a leaf out of your own book and practice what you preaching.

This is preposterous.

How can I be wrong when telling a story that happened to me?

The cretin that changed the story around was not there was he?

[BeerMoney]

I don't consider attempting to avoid problems is the same as the goal to integrate. To me, it's more like do I want to become as similar as a Thai person as humanly possible. Because obviously becoming fully Thai isn't possible for a foreigner, even with Thai citizenship.

I realize many people are going to feel not absolutely yes, not absolutely no, more like somewhere in between. But like any poll question, the idea is to vote the answer CLOSEST to your feeling, not necessarily exactly.

Based on your second sentence, nope, not at all (unless it's that square-headed guy, cause he's got big bucks)

[Ron19]

It tells people something when you are the only one who is right and everyone else is wrong.Take a leaf out of your own book and practice what you preaching.

This is preposterous.

How can I be wrong when telling a story that happened to me?

The cretin that changed the story around was not there was he?

You need help.

[bendix]

Nonsense Ron.

I'm starting to really warm to aneliane. She has singled handedly kept the forum alive for the last 2-3 days.

She reminds me of one of those delicious rashes you sometimes get which you know you shouldn't scratch, because it will get worse, but you just can't stop yourself from doing because it feels so good.

[thaibeachlovers]

I have many Thai friends (not many Farangs ones to be fair) and they are not grubs of life. However, they are different to westerners in ways that frankly offends me.

Can you explain me how you can say you have Thai friends and at the same time say their difference offend you ? Do you have any friends at all ? Or are you just a very hypocritical person ?

I find your posts, through their excessive generalization, utterly racists and against rule #8 "In using Thai Visa I agree: Not to post extremely negative views of Thailand or derogatory comments directed towards all Thais."

As a consequence you're now on my ignore list, so no point to reply to me.

C'mon, we all have "friends" that offend us, or many of us would have no one to talk to.

I think in this case, English is sadly lacking, as most people's "friends" are merely aquaintences. In my experience, most people have lots of aquaintances and a few, at most, friends.

[Jingthing]

I think you needed to add one more option:

* Will do the best I can.

No, that's covered. If your GOAL is integration and your feeling is I'll do the best I can to reach that (impossible) goal, then your answer should OBVIOUSLY be YES. Just as I suspected the comments are more about the structure of the poll question than the actual topic. How drearily predictable.

If in your wisdom you predicted that the responses would be dreary, why set up the poll in the first place? You haven't been associating with Government Ministers and Civil Servants and become afflicted with the malady that they all display symptoms of, have you?

Not sure. Hope springs eternal?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyAJWhgxhWY&feature=related

[aneliane]

Nonsense Ron.

I'm starting to really warm to aneliane. She has singled handedly kept the forum alive for the last 2-3 days.

She reminds me of one of those delicious rashes you sometimes get which you know you shouldn't scratch, because it will get worse, but you just can't stop yourself from doing because it feels so good.

Thaivisa rashes are very easy to get rid of : IGNORE BUTTON

[bendix]

But i like the rash, madame. It feels good.

Why would I ignore it?

Or do you mean you will ignore those who annoy you? If so, your Thaivisa would seem to be a very small one. It's hard to think of someone you haven't been grumpy with since you joined.

You remind me of a younger, more gallic bendix.

[Ron19]

Nonsense Ron.

I'm starting to really warm to aneliane. She has singled handedly kept the forum alive for the last 2-3 days.

She reminds me of one of those delicious rashes you sometimes get which you know you shouldn't scratch, because it will get worse, but you just can't stop yourself from doing because it feels so good.

Thaivisa rashes are very easy to get rid of : IGNORE BUTTON

[thaibeachlovers]

Stop with the "don't like it here/just go"...

Open you eyeball instead criticizing

My eyes are wide open, are yours ?

You obviously have problems with your life in Thailand, you don't like it, you are negative, you are miserable, yet .....you stay, or do you ?

Are you one of the many posters that don't actually live in Thailand but are Thailand experts ?

You are 43 and moaning like a man of 73, for fawks sake man, get a grip on your life, if you're unhappy, move on, why so much drama ?

Or are you 43 and skint and can't move on ?

If you're not skint then you must be totally crazy to stay, I know I wouldn't.

OK, take this scenario, I'm your best friend, I tell you I live in ********* and I really don't like it, I don't like the people , the culture, and I think that I am victimized because of my color, I'm so unhappy I spend all my time on internet forums complaining.

What would your advice be to me, to get the heck outta dodge, if I don't like it why stay, go somewhere you like , why did you ever leave your home country ?

Just cannot understand the whiners, you don't like it , move, it's that simple unless you can't afford to move on, it's not rocket science.

You do not seem to understand that some of us have a compulsion to moan about everything, and that applies wherever we are, because the world is full of bad people/ things etc etc etc. However, you are under no compulsion to actually read more than what is enough to understand that it is a moan, before moving on to another post that is full of light and sparkly things. You are also under no compulsion to reply and moan about moaners.

Furthermore, even those of us that moan about everything can find more to like about Thailand than the place we originated from, so why would we "go home"?

[happysoul]

This topic is amazing. Wonder what are some of the guys that voted no doing here.

But it made me understand why 95% of the problems i've experienced here were with foreigners... and English natives foreigners for the most.

People will treat you as you treat them (with their culture as reference).

PS : voted yes

[cardholder]

But i like the rash, madame. It feels good.

Why would I ignore it?

Or do you mean you will ignore those who annoy you? If so, your Thaivisa would seem to be a very small one. It's hard to think of someone you haven't been grumpy with since you joined.

You remind me of a younger, more gallic bendix.

.... but without a feminine side !!!

[maxme]

Nonsense Ron.

I'm starting to really warm to aneliane. She has singled handedly kept the forum alive for the last 2-3 days.

She reminds me of one of those delicious rashes you sometimes get which you know you shouldn't scratch, because it will get worse, but you just can't stop yourself from doing because it feels so good.

Thaivisa rashes are very easy to get rid of : IGNORE BUTTON

Believe me, I've tried but like the back door trojan, you just keep on popping up...

[maxme]

Yes.... waiting for the punch line...

[StreetCowboy]

Top derailment, by the way boys.

I can see wreckage scattered everywhere. I imagine they're just going to have to get the cutters in and clear the whole place, probably take up miles of track. They might even do a bit of beautification so that you might never know it happened; or maybe it'll be like my local station, and tehy'll just close the line altogether.

SC

[AnandaSatvha]

This topic is amazing. Wonder what are some of the guys that voted no doing here.

But it made me understand why 95% of the problems i've experienced here were with foreigners... and English natives foreigners for the most.

People will treat you as you treat them (with their culture as reference).

PS : voted yes

I made a gentle brit today who didnt hate me for my accent!

[samsiam]

This topic is amazing. Wonder what are some of the guys that voted no doing here.

But it made me understand why 95% of the problems i've experienced here were with foreigners... and English natives foreigners for the most.

People will treat you as you treat them (with their culture as reference).

PS : voted yes

I made a gentle brit today who didnt hate me for my accent!

Was that number 2's ??

[AnandaSatvha]

We all share the same space in the atmosphere, we should find some common ground, who really cares where we come from. Much love to everyone out there somewhere overthrow the rainbow..

[travelmann]

No I dont want to "integrate" into any society