Do You Leave Your Passport With The Motorbike People?

[BigC]

You can offer to leave a photocopy of your passport, or in my case - I leave my Thai driving licence. Any driving licence with a photo on it should also do the trick.

I do sometimes have to 'walk the street', but someone usually gives in and and rents a bike to me.

I have never had an issue with someone trying to pull the old "you have scratched it" scam.

well du to inssurence and theft issues the only other wy is to leave a deposit of 50 k which u r morelikely to be scammed on as cash seems more inviting

the other option is to rent from your hotel. even if it is more exeensive as they already have your details pasport copy and room deposit so they should not need a passport unless they call an outside agency.

[ydraw]

the other option is to rent from your hotel. even if it is more exeensive as they already have your details pasport copy and room deposit so they should not need a passport

If hotels only need your details and a deposit, why do non-hotels need your passport?

[BigC]

For the people saying 'don't ever leave your passport' I think we all get that you shouldn't and it's not advised, etc but when you rent a bike what do you do? Leave money? Convince them to take a photocopy? (cant imagine that one being popular)

Up to you, but your passport does not belong to you and is NOT a bargaining chip.

well if my passport belongs to the english government then i do not give a toss what they do with it. in effect i makes the passport worthless as a deposit as all u hve to do it report it lost and apply for another 1.

as for it not belinging to me. It has my name on it so i think it does

Edited June 17, 2012 by BigC

[ydraw]

Your name is on my laptop screen right now, but that doesn't belong to you either.

[transam]

For the people saying 'don't ever leave your passport' I think we all get that you shouldn't and it's not advised, etc but when you rent a bike what do you do? Leave money? Convince them to take a photocopy? (cant imagine that one being popular)

Up to you, but your passport does not belong to you and is NOT a bargaining chip.

well if my passport belongs to the english government then i do not give a toss what they do with it. in effect i makes the passport worthless as a deposit as all u hve to do it report it lost and apply for another 1.

as for it not belinging to me. It has my name on it so i think it does

Have read inside your passport. It doesn't belong to you.

[evadgib]

For the people saying 'don't ever leave your passport' I think we all get that you shouldn't and it's not advised, etc but when you rent a bike what do you do? Leave money? Convince them to take a photocopy? (cant imagine that one being popular)

Up to you, but your passport does not belong to you and is NOT a bargaining chip.

well if my passport belongs to the english government then i do not give a toss what they do with it. in effect i makes the passport worthless as a deposit as all u hve to do it report it lost and apply for another 1.

as for it not belinging to me. It has my name on it so i think it does

Anyone claiming to have lost a passport in these circumstances may have some explaining to do if it surfaces elsewhere...

[Rooo]

well if my passport belongs to the english government then i do not give a toss what they do with it. in effect i makes the passport worthless as a deposit as all u hve to do it report it lost and apply for another 1.

as for it not belinging to me. It has my name on it so i think it does

Why then do major rental companies do not ask to hold your passport? They have an imprint of your credit card.

Holding onto someone's passport is illegal.

We have gone through all this on another thread. The passport is NOT your property, it belongs to the issuing government.

Try & tell your embassy / consulate that you need a new passport because the bike rental firm won't release it.

To get a new one you have to report yours as lost & if you do under these circumstances, you are committing fraud.

Big C , that was my previous post, perhaps you missed reading it before you made yours.

[Razzler1973]

The semantics of who actually your passport belongs to isn't much of anything

If they're open to accepting money as a deposit then that's cool. Of course, it doesn't solve the actual issue with being skanked, they just give half your money back instead of withholding your passport. Ok, I have my passport but lost my cash now

Basically, don't scratch, if you do repair it yourself (anywhere on Koh Pha-Ngan?) and hopefully things will be cool

I got a bike from that Oms Place (?) on Haad Rin before and they seemed decent, I can't recall any out and out scammers with the repairs in my time

[samuijimmy]

Part of the solution is to take pictures when you rent the bike, especially if there are any marks.... most places will mark "wounds" on the rental sheet.

Rooo mentioned using credit card, but I think very few bike rental places take credit cards.... (Large international Car hire companies, yes) ...... Perhaps only the high end Hotels, but then I suspect they would want to rent you a limo service ?

[sikishrory]

on my passport it says "keep this passport safe at all times". so why would you give it to a stranger who you don't know.

never give your passport.

offer a copy of it and if you have no other rental options then offer a deposit of 5000 baht.

[edwinclapham]

The Op asked

Do You Leave Your Passport With The Motorbike People

38 posts later we should have established that either you should or you shouldnt

[transam]

Really the OP's question was daft, WHO would leave an important piece of kit with someone they don't know. What if the renter said, sorry had a break in and your PP is gone, What happens next ?

[ydraw]

38 posts later we should have established that either you should or you shouldnt

It's pretty obvious that you shouldn't, isn't it? Especially since the majority of places don't ask you to do it now anyway.

What if the renter said, sorry had a break in and your PP is gone, What happens next ?

You would have to get an emergency replacement, and may or may not end up missing your flight home as result.

[transam]

Oh, so, hmmmmm, reason for PP loss, ''Well l gave it to some bloke so l could ride his bike'', Oh you did eh.

[insertmembernamehere]

Especially since the majority of places don't ask you to do it now anyway.

I believe that most places do insist on depositing a passport. It's the one piece of collateral that renters MUST get back, unlike international driver's licences, Thai licenses, photocopies or cash.

You own your passport as a custodian since it is the property of your country.

[TomTao]

Last time I was in Pattaya I stayed at LK Appartments, there was a motorbike rental shop next to the hotel, the rental shop took a photocopy of my passport and did not ask to keep it, you should not give up your passport to anyone aside from the police if requested as part of an investigation or to Immigration, but then only for as long as needed on the day, I also understand the labor department requests your passport as part of work permit processing.

Sent from my GT-I9003 using Thaivisa Connect App

[transam]

Last time I was in Pattaya I stayed at LK Appartments, there was a motorbike rental shop next to the hotel, the rental shop took a photocopy of my passport and did not ask to keep it, you should not give up your passport to anyone aside from the police if requested as part of an investigation or to Immigration, but then only for as long as needed on the day, I also understand the labor department requests your passport as part of work permit processing.

Sent from my GT-I9003 using Thaivisa Connect App

Bet some of the posters here still rent Jet Skis too.

[insertmembernamehere]

Yeah, but let's be real for a minute. You have to have a bike for transportation and leaving your passport is what the shops want. You don't want to leave your passport? So you start walking....looking for a different place. Oh, same deal...walking again. Pretty soon you just think, "Sod it!" and leave your passport.

Has anyone actually any verified incidents where a Thai stole a person's identity from a deposited passport for the rental of a vehicle? Or any other fraud? I never have.

Edit: I have never been on a jet-ski in my life. If they made Chaweng Lake into a jet-ski racing course (which it is perfect for), then I will start.

Edited June 19, 2012 by insertmembernamehere

[transam]

Yeah, but let's be real for a minute. You have to have a bike for transportation and leaving your passport is what the shops want. You don't want to leave your passport? So you start walking....looking for a different place. Oh, same deal...walking again. Pretty soon you just think, "Sod it!" and leave your passport.

Has anyone actually any verified incidents where a Thai stole a person's identity from a deposited passport for the rental of a vehicle? Or any other fraud? I never have.

Edit: I have never been on a jet-ski in my life. If they made Chaweng Lake into a jet-ski racing course (which it is perfect for), then I will start.

You still don't get it. Your passport is NOT your property to give anyone except a countries immigration. It holds you permission to stay visa or stamps, yes/no. If THEY lose it your stuffed.

If you want to rent ANYTHING, a cash deposit or other is the way any legit business works. But daft folk will still do it and moan here if a problem.

[insertmembernamehere]

Someone is doing illegitimate business in Thailand? And getting away with it? I am SHOCKED!

Of course I "get it."

If you want to rent ANYTHING, a cash deposit or other is the way any legit business works.

Yes, but as I posted before, we are in Thailand. If you need a bike and the only places where you are require a passport, what do you do? Just forget it?

Do I assume correctly that you consider every shop that requires a passport as collateral as an illegitimate business? You are certainly entitled to that belief, but we might want to focus on the reality of the situation, not the idealized version.

A US passport is the property of the US government (Title 22, Code of Federal Regulations, Section 51.9). However, the passport only states that, "It should be carefully safeguarded." There are are no provisos regarding the handling of the passport or who if anyone can temporarily possess it. The idea that you can't "give" your passport to anyone -- rental, hotel, travel agent -- because it is "illegal" to do so is pure urban myth.

[samuijimmy]

Someone is doing illegitimate business in Thailand? And getting away with it? I am SHOCKED!

Of course I "get it."

If you want to rent ANYTHING, a cash deposit or other is the way any legit business works.

Yes, but as I posted before, we are in Thailand. If you need a bike and the only places where you are require a passport, what do you do? Just forget it?

Do I assume correctly that you consider every shop that requires a passport as collateral as an illegitimate business? You are certainly entitled to that belief, but we might want to focus on the reality of the situation, not the idealized version.

A US passport is the property of the US government (Title 22, Code of Federal Regulations, Section 51.9). However, the passport only states that, "It should be carefully safeguarded." There are are no provisos regarding the handling of the passport or who if anyone can temporarily possess it. The idea that you can't "give" your passport to anyone -- rental, hotel, travel agent -- because it is "illegal" to do so is pure urban myth.

+1.....

Off course no one gives a darn about the rental shops who get ripped off .... when bikes not returned or stolen.... All farangs are good people.... yeah right!

[Tropicalevo]

Off course no one gives a darn about the rental shops who get ripped off .... when bikes not returned or stolen.... All farangs are good people.... yeah right!

To put this point another way - I have used the same two rental companies for the last 12 years (for customers). Both rental companies are run by really nice local people. The ONLY time bikes/cars have been stolen has been by Thais. They did not leave their passports!

[samuijimmy]

Off course no one gives a darn about the rental shops who get ripped off .... when bikes not returned or stolen.... All farangs are good people.... yeah right!

To put this point another way - I have used the same two rental companies for the last 12 years (for customers). Both rental companies are run by really nice local people. The ONLY time bikes/cars have been stolen has been by Thais. They did not leave their passports!

Really!!!!! ..... that's hard to believe!!!!!

[Rooo]

" There are are no provisos regarding the handling of the passport or who if anyone can temporarily possess it. The idea that you can't "give" your passport to anyone -- rental, hotel, travel agent -- because it is "illegal" to do so is pure urban myth.

Right, I will hire a bike from you, then leave it as collateral with someone. Now I am a custodian of that bike since I hired it from you. Does that ring right to you?

My passport clearly states it remains the property of my country, so how can you justify mortgaging / pawning / leaving as security something that is not my property.

It is a very lame attempt by the providers. If the embassy / consulate get involved they will get it back,

Urban myth? Perhaps in some people's view, check with your embassy / consulate & tell me what they tell you.

[BigC]

Off course no one gives a darn about the rental shops who get ripped off .... when bikes not returned or stolen.... All farangs are good people.... yeah right!

To put this point another way - I have used the same two rental companies for the last 12 years (for customers). Both rental companies are run by really nice local people. The ONLY time bikes/cars have been stolen has been by Thais. They did not leave their passports!

even if a thai did leavea passport he or shedoes not care as they do not have to lav their countryplus no offence but thai people look simiar so easy for them to use a fake passport or id card. more like a stolen one.

howmany times to thai lose their id cards every week? someonefinds them

i agree in all fairness people have to consider things fom the leasers point of view. I cannot could howmany time forang rent bike smash them up and in some cases try to run away.

[insertmembernamehere]

You are still living in an idealized, stylized version of the way things ought to be.

If people ask and accept passports as collateral, it is what it is.

If you rent a bike with your passport as collateral, then really wipe out the bike and refuse to pay what the rental place is asking for damages, and the shop will not give you your passport back until you do, what next? Call your embassy so they can send the passport repo men out? You'll get your passport back after dealing with the police and their finding some way to compel you to pay (detain you, perhaps?). But this isn't the point. Your example of the hired bike used again sounds something like my renting this house and then, when I am on holiday, subletting it to someone else. I am still custodian of the house even though I don't own it or even live in it. No one has an issue with being a second landlord.

I have a Harley in the US and it is mine. It is in the possession of my nephew. I own it but he uses it in anyway he sees fit. If he breaks it, he has to fix it; if he wants to use it as collateral, he can. The only thing is that I want if for it to be in proper condition when I visit. He must "safeguard" the bike while it is in his possession, but it is up to him to assess any risks involved with how to use the bike.

People are confused about ownership and possession. Just because you don't own something outright doesn't mean you can't control its use. Usufruct "control" springs to mind, as one Thai example. It's my passport, has my photo in it and can only be used as an ID device by me. However, there are no restrictions on what else I can do with this document issued to me (but owned by my government). If using a passport as collateral was as heinous a crime as some make it out, don't you think there would be mention of not using it for this in the booklet itself?

I am sure my embassy would advise me not to let the passport out of my possession, but that there is nothing illegal about my using it to rent a bike. They only want to encourage me as to the best way to safeguard it. It's their job. It isn't illegal to "pawn" your passport; but it does involve a risk that each person has to evaluate themself. The shop could lose it, but so could you. You decide if the risk is too great or acceptable.

[ydraw]

If you rent a bike with your passport as collateral, then really wipe out the bike and refuse to pay what the rental place is asking for damages, and the shop will not give you your passport back until you do, what next?

You call your consulate and get a new one. A passport is not irreplaceable. Most consulates can get you a 1 year validity passport within 48 hours. The only issue is if you need to catch an international flight before that time.

Holding a passport provides less security to the business than a cash deposit. It is also illegal. Any business that takes a passport as guarantee is badly run.

[tinfoilhat]

I never experienced Thais being ok with it on places like Koh Pha-Ngan or even Koh Chang and they just seem confident that no one will rent to you so can afford to shrug and let you leave and I have gone around everyone and had no luck and ended up handing my passport over.

I mean, I am aware of the 'dangers' and I do wonder if a lot of places just ask for it as it's the thing everyone does, they don't even think about whether they need it or they should have it or anything

If you cant find someone of reputable character to hire you a bike without passport, perhaps consider not hiring after all.

My take on it is that they are holding which is something valuable to you hence a good bartering/blackmail tool however you like to look at it, and why put yourself in that situation.

I like having a bike though and you'd think if no one is handing over their passport then no one is renting which means they'd soon change their ways but they're clearly not :/

or a truck, especially on koh phangan.

nobody is afraid you will abscond with their property, but they require a passport for their vehicles. And they have wised up, cancelled passports wont cut it.

I have a relationship, so no deposit on passports or jeeps is required for myself, but i have had calls from my tenants who dont want to do it. Because i always point them to the same woman who has always proved herself honest, i tell them i trust her, and if they object to the passport thing, they are welcome to rent from someone else.

for my properties i require a cash deposit of 20k on arrival on top of the rental which has already been paid before they arrive.

it works out quite well, because in the event there is an issue (1 Russian in 6 years -- booked for a month, but wanted to leave immediately after 3 days of rain) i effectively have their deposit, full rent and passport.

it was a significant issue because i had a repeat customer who requested 6 weeks in the house 2 days after the russian had paid in full.

in the end, the russian received half his rent back(50k) , forfeit the deposit - 5k went to jeep lady for similar lost revenue and her support -- and shuffled off to Samui where his girlfriend could wear her outfits and shop.

he received a significant discount the next year when he came back with a more down to earth woman and stayed for 2 months.

that is the only problem we have had in 6 years.

[samuijimmy]

If you rent a bike with your passport as collateral, then really wipe out the bike and refuse to pay what the rental place is asking for damages, and the shop will not give you your passport back until you do, what next?

You call your consulate and get a new one. A passport is not irreplaceable. Most consulates can get you a 1 year validity passport within 48 hours. The only issue is if you need to catch an international flight before that time.

Holding a passport provides less security to the business than a cash deposit. It is also illegal. Any business that takes a passport as guarantee is badly run.

Holding a passport provides less security to the business than a cash deposit. It is also illegal. Any business that takes a passport as guarantee is badly run.

Utter rubbish!

Many of these bike places are small "Mum and Pop" operators trying to get ahead.... losing a a bike by theft or not returned leaves them with a big cash loss to them ....

I too have never heard of a place that does not give security back when bike is returned in same shape it was taken.....

although I will agree that a few operators take advantage of the situation in cost of repairs, but it's not all of them....

Also, I would very much doubt if you could get a passport back within two days from any Consulate....

[insertmembernamehere]

.

Holding a passport provides less security to the business than a cash deposit.

People have been posting about cash deposits of 5,000 baht or less. If you were to total the bike (and not yourself) and was asked to replace the bike, I think as a rental owner, I'd feel better about having a passport instead of 1/6th of the cost of the replacement bike. The reason passports are good collateral, as I said before, is that the owner MUST have it back to catch their flight out of Dodge. It's a lot more tempting to pull a runner and leave 5K on the table if you really crunched the bike.

It is also illegal.

You may be correct, but I'd like to see some evidence of this. My sense is that it is in the public consciousness that this practice is illegal, but legally and in fact, it is not.

Any business that takes a passport as guarantee is badly run.

That's quite a generalization. The shop down the way from me, for example, takes passports and is well run, the people couldn't be friendlier and their business has been growing to the point that they must be thinking of becoming something akin to Avis in Samui.