International Atm Processing Charges

[T_Dog]

Made an ATM withdrawal a few days ago out of my US Bank account and see on my online report that I got charge 19 dollars US for an "international processing charge" in addition to the 150 baht. Yaozer! Have the banks figured out yet another way to extract more money out their customers? I sent them an email and expect a reply soon, but am wondering if anyone else is running into this.

[chokdeea]

I've just had a similar experience with Bangkok Bank ATM. But Krung Thai Bank ATM only $5

international charge. However, could not see an English language button at KTB.

See the thread I posted today.

[lopburi3]

There is a normal 150 baht charge at almost all ATM's in Thailand (except Aeon) but the other $19 would be your home bank charge for a foreign currency transaction (they used to hide it but now are supposed to make it an extra charge in billing). Your bank electronic agreement will have this listed - normally in the range of 1 to 3 percent of the total transaction in dollars. Obviously you have a card at the high end of that range.

[chokdeea]

In the last 2 weeks I have withdrawn 10,000 baht from my Australian bank using a Bangkok Bank ATM and a Krung Thai machine.

Using the BB ATM cost me 150 baht+ $A15 charges. With the KT there was the 150 baht but the charge by my Aussie bank was only $A5, a difference of B300. The withdrawal amounts deducted from my Aussie account were different by one dollar $A333 & $A332 (plus the bank charges).

Printed on the KB receipt it said: YOU HAVE CHOSEN NOT TO USE THE MASTERCARD CURRENCY CONVERSION PROCESS AND AGREE THAT I WILL HAVE NO RECOURSE AGAINST MC CONCERNING ANY MATTER RELATED TO THE CURRENCY CONVERSION OR ITS DISCLOSURE. I cannot remember pressing any button to agree to that.

With the Krung Thai ATM, I could not see an English language button, whereas the Bangkok Bank English button was plain to see. I can read some Thai so that did not bother me. Furthermore, the BB machine gave me crisp new notes, but the KT gave me old grubby ones.

If you do not read Thai, the BB is probably preferable. If you read Thai you might save $A10 (baht300).

[Pib]

Sounds like your US bank is charging a nice little foreign transaction fee. First time such a fee has appeared? If yes, then it appears the bank has started charging a foreign transaction fee. I have a couple of US debit cards which do not charge any foreign transaction fee...I use each several times per month...no additional charge of any kind...don't even get the 150 baht Thai bank charge since I always use AEON ATMs.

At least your bank is clearly identifying the separate charge versus lumping it into the main transaction/only showing the total cost of the transaction which can fool a person into thinking they just got a low exchange rate with no fee(s).

Edited June 15, 2012 by Pib

[meand]

http://www.schwab.com/public/schwab/banking_lending/checking_account

[chokdeea]

http://www.schwab.co...hecking_account

A worry I would have with Schwab is that at present there is global financial uncertainty.

If Lehmans went bust in 2008, how is Schwab placed to survive the worst of a global

meltdown? What if Europe implodes next week? I hope it doesn't, but....

[T_Dog]

US Bank was including it all the time and now they are showing it as a separate line item. Never realized it amounted to so much. Here is an excerpt from their response, which was well worded:

"The international processing fee is 2% of the total transaction if processed in American Dollars or 3% if processed in foreign currency.

The fee will show as a separate transaction on your account after the transaction itself. "

The Schwab link looks good, and HSBC has free ATM access system as well. Going to check with another bank to see what options I have, but 3% is too steep of a fee in my book.

[Doc50]

http://www.schwab.co...hecking_account

A worry I would have with Schwab is that at present there is global financial uncertainty.

If Lehmans went bust in 2008, how is Schwab placed to survive the worst of a global

meltdown? What if Europe implodes next week? I hope it doesn't, but....

The Schwab Bank account is FDIC bank account insured to 250K. Lehmans was not a bank was it?

[Pib]

State Farm Bank also provides a no foreign transation fee debit card...both the State Farm and Schwab debit cards do not charge any foreign transaciton fees and they also reimburse foreign ATM fees (i.e., the 150 Thai bank fee) although I avoid using Thai bank ATMs...I just use AEON ATMs to avoid putting a fee on my banks.

[how241]

http://www.schwab.co...hecking_account

A worry I would have with Schwab is that at present there is global financial uncertainty.

If Lehmans went bust in 2008, how is Schwab placed to survive the worst of a global

meltdown? What if Europe implodes next week? I hope it doesn't, but....

Yes, someting to consider.

[el jefe]

http://www.schwab.co...hecking_account

A worry I would have with Schwab is that at present there is global financial uncertainty.

If Lehmans went bust in 2008, how is Schwab placed to survive the worst of a global

meltdown? What if Europe implodes next week? I hope it doesn't, but....

Yes, someting to consider.

Chokdeea and how241 -- Why do you think your current bank is safer than Schwab's bank?

[Naam]

The Schwab Bank account is FDIC bank account insured to 250K. Lehmans was not a bank was it?

i believe Lehman Bros. was a New York dog grooming company, that's why its bankruptcy had global implications.

[Pib]

I expect there is some confusion between Schwab Brokerage and Schwab Bank...completely different business units...Schwab Bank has to follow the same U.S. banking laws/regulations as all other U.S. banks...and of course Schwab Bank is FDIC insured just like other U.S. banks. However, to get a Schwab Bank account(s) you must signup for a Schwab Brokerage account but you do not have to fund the brokerage account nor do you get charged any brokerage fees for maintaining a zero balance brokerage account. Kinda a good deal...if you wake up one morning and decide you want to invest some of your Schwab bank account money into stocks you just transfer some funds over your Schwab Brokerage account and buy all the Facebook or other company shares you want...you'll even be ready for a ThaiVisa IPO. Signing up for a Schwab Brokerage, Checking and/or Savings account is easy and fast....unless something has changed from last year when I signed up, you can do it online for an individual account but for a joint account you mail in the easy & short application(s).

[ripstanley]

In Australia the ANZ charge 3% fee if the trader is an overseas company. I received a refund for my GST from Australian Customs. When it was refunded to my ANZ card there was a charge of 3% for international foreign echange fee. I could not understand how I could be charged this fee from an Australian Government department. The end result is that they have outsourced this to a company that is based overseas. The final result was that ANZ had given me a credit instead of a debit.

[55Jay]

In the last 2 weeks I have withdrawn 10,000 baht from my Australian bank using a Bangkok Bank ATM and a Krung Thai machine.

Using the BB ATM cost me 150 baht+ $A15 charges. With the KT there was the 150 baht but the charge by my Aussie bank was only $A5, a difference of B300. The withdrawal amounts deducted from my Aussie account were different by one dollar $A333 & $A332 (plus the bank charges).

Printed on the KB receipt it said: YOU HAVE CHOSEN NOT TO USE THE MASTERCARD CURRENCY CONVERSION PROCESS AND AGREE THAT I WILL HAVE NO RECOURSE AGAINST MC CONCERNING ANY MATTER RELATED TO THE CURRENCY CONVERSION OR ITS DISCLOSURE. I cannot remember pressing any button to agree to that.

With the Krung Thai ATM, I could not see an English language button, whereas the Bangkok Bank English button was plain to see. I can read some Thai so that did not bother me. Furthermore, the BB machine gave me crisp new notes, but the KT gave me old grubby ones.

If you do not read Thai, the BB is probably preferable. If you read Thai you might save $A10 (baht300).

Yes, I thought KT was muddled on the exhange rate vs. offering to use your card's financial institution (Visa/MC).

BB and SCB were pretty clear cut on the English transaction screen. Once accepting the 150 baht charge, next was the exchange rate screen which states what they are offering - in my cases a few weeks ago varied between 30.1 or 30.2 Baht to USD. No thanks. Select "Continue without conversion" and you'll get the better card rate, not the Thai bank ATM's lower rate. The diffference on a 10KBaht ATM pull, when it finally hits your account back home, can be around $10 in your favor. Really adds up if using ATM 1x/week for a month.

As noted by Pib and others, try to find and use an AEON ATM, at least doesn't stick your home bank with the 150 charge.

This foreign currency conversion "scam" is ever-present if using your credit card to pay for things. Pay attention to what's printed at the bottom of the receipt they give you before you sign. I've taken to telling the clerk/waiter, whatever, to use USD when I give him my MC credit card right up front. Some places can't or don't want to figure it out. Most recently, the Italian restaurant at Silverlake Vinyard couldn't/wouldn't, so I ended up paying cash. While it ends up taking longer, you need to stick to your guns and have them reverse the transaction and make it a Thai Baht transaction; if they can't, pay cash, or accept the stick up the arse. Sizzler in one case took around 20 minutes to figure it out, we stuck to our guns and finally got it reversed and re-done in Baht.

J

[Pib]

Every time some store has tried the Direct Currency Conversion (DCC) thing on me when using my U.S. credit card (a no foriegn transaction fee card) the exchange rate printed at the bottom of the receipt for signature has been approx 3.75% lower than the TT Buying Rate you get in wire transfers...and the TT rate is always very, very close to the Visa/Mastercard 0% foreign transaction fee rate. Would have been the same if I had handed them a U.S. debit card vs credit card. DCC has only been attempted on me approx 5 times over the last few years even when at least 3 of those times I told the checkout clerk to "Charge Thai Baht, Not U.S. Dollars" when handing them my card. But if I hadn't said Charge Thai Baht, Not U.S. Dollars there would have been many more times. I'm sure that sometimes when I told the clerk to charge Thai baht it just didn't register in their brain, they swiped the card, and let the point of sale transaction machine determine whether to use DCC or not...and some stores set their point of sale machines to default to DCC for foriegn cards. Appears some banks set their ATMs up the same way for foreign cards...that is, default to DCC but uses vague words that fool you into processing your withdrawal under a DCC rate.

Four of those 5 times have happened at Sizzler, Pizza Company, and HomePro...but I refuse to sign the receipt for signature, tell them to redo the charge in baht and it usually took them from 30 seconds to a few minutes to cancel the USD charge and redo in Thai baht....time to redo all depended on the checkout clerk...for clerks who know how to cancel & rerun the charge it only takes about 30 seconds total. Fortunately, none of the stores/clerks gave any resistance in canceling and rerunning the charge.

Right now based on my day-to-day buying habits, Sizzler, Pizza Company, and HomePro are the only places I tell them up front when handing them my credit card to Charge Thai Baht, Not U.S. Dollars because these companies will always attempt the DCC since their Point of Sale transaction machines appear to be setup to default to DCC for foreign cards. Now I can't say "every" Sizzler, Pizza Company, and HomePro in Thailand will automatically attempt a DCC transaction (maybe it's decided upon at individual store level); all I can say is all the different ones I have used in western Bangkok have attempted the DCC. I expect in locations like central Bangkok where foreign tourist are a dime a dozen it's successfully attempted by many more stores.

Now the DCC first charge will still show up on my credit card account (although I never signed the receipt & it was canceled out) along with the second/corrected charge, but the canceled DCC charge disappears after a few days and only the corrected charge remains.

DCC bad, very bad whether for purchase or cash withdrawal as you will most like likely get approx a 4% lower exchange rate...and that 4% goes into the merchant/banks' pocket versus staying in your pocket. I have no doubt it may fool some folks into thinking they may have avoided a bank charge when I fact they have just given the bank/merchant an approx 4% DCC fee via lower exchange rate.

DCC bad, very bad for customer; good for bank/store.

[lopburi3]

Now the DCC first charge will still show up on my credit card account (although I never signed the receipt & it was canceled out) along with the second/corrected charge, but the canceled DCC charge disappears after a few days and only the corrected charge remains.

Which could be a serious issue for a debit card or a credit card if a large purchase and the two transactions exceed limit as you now have no way to pay bill.