Canadian Sisters Found Dead In Thai Resort

[NomadJoe]

please grow up,how many people die there in your country,...

Er...all of them eventually.

[FlyByNights]

Did they stay at Laleena Guesthouse ? A Norwegian and an American lady died there mysteriously two years ago within hours of each other after they became sick. They exact cause never came to light, some alleged poisoning. The autopsies did not produce any results, except that food poisoning was exempted.

Thx for posting this, just want do the same. As far as I remember the reason of the death never was mentioned... Hope it will examinated a little bit better this time. A second case near similar like the one two years ago is a little bit more then suspicious

May they rest in peace, my condolences to familys and friends of the girls and a prayer for a explanation of the Thai authorities asap

This is really awful... These girls stayed at the Phi Phi Palms Residence - anyone knows if it's close to Laleena Guesthouse ?

It's actually eerily similar to the case at Laleena 3 years ago.

In 2009, a few days after that incident, the fiancee of the American girl who died posted the following:

My name is Ryan, I was Jill's fiancee. We were staying at a guesthouse called laleena. I have to think that Jill died of a poison substance. We got our room about 11 in the morning. It was our first room with A/C in about a month of traveling through Asia. So we decided to just hang out in the room all day and catch up on some needed sleep. I am not a great sleeper, Jill on the other hand was awesome she could sleep anytime, anywhere. Aroun 1 o clock I was antsy so I went to go use the internet. I was gone about an hour. I went back to the room hung out with Jill for about an hour. We were both hungry so I decided I would go get us some food, so we could enjoy the A/C. I was gone about 45 minutes. I came beack we ate our food and hung out for another hour or 2. We then decided to go out walking around. Jill started saying she wasnt feeling that well (probably the burger) but being the trooper she was, we stayed out for a few hours. Ate some dinner , watched the sunset. Around midnight Jill said she was still feeling ill. She wanted to go lie down, but told me to stay out for a bit, cause we were hanging out with some new friends. I went back to the room at about 2 am, to find jill in some real pain. She started vomiting not too long after. I layed down in bed with her to try to comfort her. Probably 2 hours later, I started feelin very ill. I started vomiting. feeling dizzy. This is when I realized Jill was not doing well at all. She started turning blue. I ran outside grabbed a utility cart, briught it back, picked Jill up and put her in it. I ran all the way to the hospital. They started doing CPR to no avail.

I found out later that there is a water treatment plant right behind the guesthouse. I feel that jill was poisoned by a chemical from that plant. She spent about 5 more hours in the room than I did. She was just breathing in the fumes for so long. The only reason I did not get deathly ill, is that I kept getting these short breaks from the air in the room.

The next day, a woman from Norway died right in the room next door, her traveling companion was admitted to the ICU. All thrree of them had the exact same symptoms. That seems like a hell of a coincidence. I just want people to know to be careful of the Laleena guesthouse. Whatever is there it killed 2 people and put one in intensive care, in 2 days. That doesnt sound like food poisoning, and I doubt two A/C units started pumping in gas on the same day. There has to be something in the air from that water treatment plant..

From what source did you get Ryan's quote from?

[ttelise]

"Impossible even for someone with an advanced medical degree to diagnose a cause of death from a few comments in an article. Futile to do so."

But far from impossible to render a differential diagnosis especially given the old adage "90% of diagnosis comes from the history"

.

Well I would say I am closer than Thai experts or at least making a better effort than the Thai experts investigating the 2009 deaths of individuals presenting the same symptoms.

More from presentation depending on issue patient presents. Apparently normal healthy young females (based on everything read which is more than you usually get in ER setting) vomits sustains lesions and apparent hypoxia, cyanosis and bleeding gums. Differential diagnosis could be food poisoning (botulism, camplobactor and etc.), acute renal failure from toxic substance or I guess a systemic allergic reaction, maybe septic shock. The last two perhaps ruled out by history of two girls instead of one. Two young healthy girls just don't puke and die together in same room without one seeking help if they did nit get taken down by something quickly that initially presented as something common like food poisoning.

We might as well use our brains, logic and deduction as Thai officials have great difficulty in finding something as basic as cause of death of two bodies neither if which should be horribly decomposed.

[Bender]

The deaths of these two women follow an American and two Norwegian tourists dying of suspected poisoning after staying at 'The Laleena guesthouse’ on Phi Phi Island in 2009.

Extensive tests failed to provide any conclusive evidence as to what those three tourists died of.

Early last year, four guests; three foreign and one Thai died after staying at the Downtown Inn in Chiang Mai.

Source: http://www.phuketgaz...ticle16196.html

-- Phuket Gazette 2012-06-16

Only 4 in chiang mai ! What happened to the other death people, they ressurected?

Actually it was not 4 but 7 people... Honestly you can just ask yourself how many other got covered.

Worth a read: http://travelinasia.hubpages.com/hub/downtown-inn

[ttelise]

The water plant is just bunk. Be widespread. What about serial killer? Could easily work there, slip toxins and maybe even swipe stuff. Could be thrill kills. Same MO, same locations, probably more if a pattern than realize and perhaps similar Thai deaths nit get media coverage.

Like Thais would admit to serial killer targeting tourist or foreigners . . .

[james255]

Im not a doctor

But

Arsenic poisoning

Could show these syptoms and is very common in Thailand

read about it

[joefromdc]

Good say, you right i live 4 year here never had problems, i am from Belgium i think it is more safe here

Sadly, your perception is incorrect. A person is 4x as likely to be murdered in Thailand (per 100,000 populations) as in Belgium:

Source, the UN. http://www.unodc.org...es-05012009.pdf

Belgium: 1.6- 2.1 intentional homicides per 100,000. Thailand: 8.2- 9.0.

A person in Thailand is also probably several times more likely to be killed in traffic (per 100 million vehicle miles driven) than in Europe. I haven't looked that one up for Europe, but my recollection is that the factor for the USA is 12x more likely to be killed in traffic in Thailand.

This might be the best reply I have ever seen on ThaiVisa.Com.

[crusader79]

Good say, you right i live 4 year here never had problems, i am from Belgium i think it is more safe here

Sadly, your perception is incorrect. A person is 4x as likely to be murdered in Thailand (per 100,000 populations) as in Belgium:

Source, the UN. http://www.unodc.org...es-05012009.pdf

Belgium: 1.6- 2.1 intentional homicides per 100,000. Thailand: 8.2- 9.0.

A person in Thailand is also probably several times more likely to be killed in traffic (per 100 million vehicle miles driven) than in Europe. I haven't looked that one up for Europe, but my recollection is that the factor for the USA is 12x more likely to be killed in traffic in Thailand.

This might be the best reply I have ever seen on ThaiVisa.Com.

But those stats are for Thais, the sub-stats for farang will be very different (and much lower).

[Yunla]

RIP.

Drinking pesticide is supposedly the most common suicide in poor rural areas of China and possibly Thailand. There was an article a few years ago in Thailand about increasing numbers of young poor people drinking Polydol here to commit suicide.

Thailand has an extremely casual disregard for neurotoxic pesticide chemicals, they are cheap to buy, easy to obtain, and the regulations are never enforced. Many pesticides available in Thailand and handled by teenagers here, are banned in the west. Symptoms of these legal farming and home-control toxins do fit the girls' death symptoms, if they were poisoned by administering of neat pesticide.

Even walking through a cloud of powerful neurotoxic spray by accident will give you many symptoms including nausea, skin lesions including gums, breathing difficulties etc.etc. and of course lung cancer eventually. Drinking it will be far stronger effect and instant. Obviously murder by poisoning happens in every country on Earth, is used by aristocrats and royalty worldwide through the ages, and so is not a Thai problem. I think the availability and use of pesticides in Thailand needed regulation and enforcement several decades ago and more so now.

Logically if teenagers here commit suicide by drinking pesticide, then theres no reason for killers to not use it in their crimes too. Addressing the root problems of poverty in society and regulating the availability of these poisons will certainly improve the situation in my view.

Edited June 17, 2012 by Yunla

[james255]

Im not sherlock Holme's

But 90 % of the deaths have been women ?

Its dont matter how old or young if you was with your partner one of you would go for help

ONLY A VERY POWERFUL drug of poison would stop both of you .

As i said im not sherlock but its very obvoius

There has been so many and so many already have forget about krabi 3 years ago WHAT WAS IT 8 DEATHS >> ??

[dingdang]

Can it have been methanol added in some drink? (Mixed illegally in some home-made alcohol?)

Methanol is also used in wastewater plants.

It would show the same symptoms, wouldn't it?

It leads to vomitting, respiratory paralysis.

Methanol would be easy to determine in an autopsy/hospital (urine), and there are antidotes as well.

It's deadly in doses of 5 to 200ml.

Edited June 17, 2012 by dingdang

[DowntownAl]

Come on folks - a little perspective. It's a big world with lots of nasty people and tragic events. Google "tourists die" and you'll come up with 29million hits. People die under tragic circumstances all over the world. For those of you who want to blame Thailand, as one paranoid poster put it "a hub of death" go home and hide under you bed, you'll be safer there.

My condolences to the family during this tragic time and to the sisters - RIP.

[joecos]

What do young women find attractive about Thailand, its either stinking hot or teeming down rain.

Young & older men the attractions are obvious.

Still a terrible tragedy, their families must be devastated.

RIP.

Seriously?! Get out to some of the islands which still have areas that feel like paradise on Earth.

You are probably right. I have lived in Chiang Saen for the past 10 yrs. It could be a million miles from Phi Phi etc.

Tho. i did pay my annual visit to `the islands` a couple of weeks ago,but with the tremors,cost of living,& too many fallang

it was a relief to get back up north.My post was about the young ladies i see backpacking up north, but i suppose i have

forgotten what its like to be young.

Once again may the two young ladies rest in peace.

[dingdang]

Could it be enough (to die) when brushing teeth with tap water where methanol was added?

lesions/rashes are also a symptom.

Edited June 17, 2012 by dingdang

[RickBradford]

RIP - tragic.

The Thai press reports that the two women spent a fair amount of time at a 'night-time entertainment area', though what that means in relation to Phi Phi island, I have no idea.

[dingdang]

An autopsy in the home country, I believe, the relatives have to pay out of their own pocket.

[GentlemanJim]

Interesting, looking at the hotel on Agoda, the first customer review on the first page is

Everything is good except for bedbugs, hence the bites and lack of sleep. Disappointing that a mid range hotel have bed bugs like that..

Now wasn't the issue with the deaths at the Downtown inn, Chang Mai something to do (potentially) with the fact that the mattresses had been treated for bedbug infestation, by using some extremely toxic chemical.

The link for the Phi phi palms residence is here

http://www.agoda.com/asia/thailand/koh_phi_phi_krabi/phi_phi_palms_residence.html

It would be interesting to know if the lady who did the review on Agoda complained to the hotel Her review was dated 6 june. Maybe the beds had been treated and some people are still using very toxic pesticides to get rid of bedbug infestations.

[FlyByNights]

What are the chances of two girls dying together, in the hotel room at same time?

It's almost impossible to imagine. Apparently neither one of them had a chance to get help. Doesn’t this seem a little strange?

IMO if they were sleeping it must have been a quick deadly toxic release of some kind, so strong that they lost oxygen while they were sleeping and stopped breathing.

I think a full toxicology; along with a police report would reveal some of these unanswered questions.

[playon]

How terrible, my thoughts are with the parents. I was at a funeral only 2 days ago of the eldest son of a long standing friend. He was 37.

I kept a log for a while earlier this year of attacks or and/or deaths of foreigners in Thailand up to May 11 when I stopped recording. (see below). There may well have been others of which I was not aware during that time.

What a horrible way to die, the girls would know they were very sick. You know you are very ill when you vomit and are incapable of doing anything to clean up the mess.

Why didn't they call reception and ask for a doctor before they got too bad?

If its from something they've eaten, surely other people will have eaten the same stuff from the same place?

It does sound a very nasty poisin, maybe was targeted only to them intentionally?

1 Feb.Phuket. 4 young Swedes + Thai driver killed. Fish truck hit Honda car head on.

6 Feb. Pattaya Suicide? fall from Condo . Naked wealthy Austrian Red Bull boss.

12 Feb. Bangkok. Wendy Albano American designer stabbed & choked to death in hotel room.

22 Feb.Phuket Pregnant teenage Australian female beaten up and items stolen by 4 Ladyboys.

28 Feb Phuket Lara O'Connell Oz model killed. drove m/cycle into food stall 3.30am no helmet

4 March Phuket Mini bus/fish pick up truck crash. 4 tourists dead, 5 injured.

7 March Phuket Russian man electrocuted at Dewa Karon Beach Resortswimming pool. (bridge railing live)

7 March Phuket Finnish man killed in m/bike accident

8 March Kantharalak 60 yr old Sewdish male hit from behind by pickup whilst on m/bike. fatal

13 March Prachuap Khiri Khan Brit guy & Thai wife Michael Raymond, 68 and Suchada Baokhamdee, 52 found murdered

28 March Krabi town. 2 young German girls attacked. phones etc stolen. Trying to resist, 1 has thumb cut off.

01 April Bangkok. 30 yr old farang found hanged on roof of abondoned 32 storey building on Bang Na - Trat Rd.

02 April Phuket 66 yr old Ruissian male tourist found hanged from a tree

09 April Bangkok Khao San Rd. French tourist Charlie 26 dies in fire.

10 April Chonburi Rin Island in Sattahip district 41 yrs Russian male drowns diving. suspectected drunk alcohol

19 April Pattaya Soi 8 Mr. Michael Golop, 66 years of age shot & injured at random along with 2 young Thais.

11 May North of Phuket. National Park. Taiwanese airline pilot killed in longtail boat accident

OK so what do we have here, like 24 deaths in 5 months? Let's be generous and say 120 tourists die by accidents and crime in one year. Then let's say the 16,000,000 tourists in 2011 is exaggerated, we can shave off 4 million and call it 12,000,000 per year. 120 out of 12,000,000, is around 1/100th of a percent. Seems pretty safe to me... get a life, folks.

[elektrified]

I am going to go out on a limb here, and state that whatever happened to these girls, you will NOT EVER see a screaming headline next month that says they were farang tourists poisoned in the land of smiles. This will go the way of every other mysterious death like this, never really solved and then swept away under the rug Thai style. In the real world a toxicological examination of the body would solve this case instantly. This will never happen here, and toxins will only be alluded to. What incredible pain for the families.......

Experts from all around the world participated in the Chiang Mai Downtown Inn investigation and they were not able to reach a conclusive decision.

[metisdead]

Posts regarding others spelling and grammar not only hijacks the topic but is poor netiquette, one post and a reply have been removed.

[playon]

In spite of floods and political unrest, there were 19,098,323 foreign visitors to Thailand in 2011. Given the enourmous numbers of visitors, I'm sure that percentage-wise, the number of farang deaths is a tiny amount, probably much lower than that many other countries. The sensationalist headlines that this website constantly reports make it seem like a dangerous place. It's not.

You must be a Thai, with this being only your 2nd post, it seams you are trying to protect your national Image. To make a statement that "The sensationalist headlines that this website constantly reports make it seem like a dangerous place. It's not." You fail to list all the countries that comprise that 19 million people. Are you aware, that of the top 20 countries in that 19 million, Canada is not even listed. Not to mention that the largest number of FOREIGN visitors are from places Asean, Japan, Korea, Hong Kong (all Asian countries), and not Farang as you decided to label them.

I assure you, I am not Thai, I'm an American visiting Thailand. Farang = only Caucasian visitors? Then I meant to say foreign.

[Soupdragon]

Interesting, looking at the hotel on Agoda, the first customer review on the first page is

Everything is good except for bedbugs, hence the bites and lack of sleep. Disappointing that a mid range hotel have bed bugs like that..

Now wasn't the issue with the deaths at the Downtown inn, Chang Mai something to do (potentially) with the fact that the mattresses had been treated for bedbug infestation, by using some extremely toxic chemical.

The link for the Phi phi palms residence is here

http://www.agoda.com..._residence.html

It would be interesting to know if the lady who did the review on Agoda complained to the hotel Her review was dated 6 june. Maybe the beds had been treated and some people are still using very toxic pesticides to get rid of bedbug infestations.

To my mind this has to be environmental and this information could well be a good clue to those investigating.

Of course the room was sealed and a team of forensic experts are already on scene collecting evidence. What do you mean they are not there yet and their ETA is two weeks.

Edited June 17, 2012 by Soupdragon

[saroq]

My condolences to their parents, the thought of losing both my children at one time is too much to bear.

Indeed. These parents have lost two children at the same time and in terrible circumstances, what they must be going through is something I cannot comprehend and hope I never have to experience.

I do hope that a proper investigation follows.

[normac44]

My condolences to the family also.Begs the question though, why do we and other people from all around the world love this place so much and keep coming back?

[RickBradford]

I am going to go out on a limb here, and state that whatever happened to these girls, you will NOT EVER see a screaming headline next month that says they were farang tourists poisoned in the land of smiles. This will go the way of every other mysterious death like this, never really solved and then swept away under the rug Thai style. In the real world a toxicological examination of the body would solve this case instantly. This will never happen here, and toxins will only be alluded to. What incredible pain for the families.......

Experts from all around the world participated in the Chiang Mai Downtown Inn investigation and they were not able to reach a conclusive decision.

The symptoms in this case are so clear, and have appeared simultaneously in 2 people, that I'm sure a competent expert would know very rapidly what had happened to these 2 unfortunate people. The only question is whether a competent expert will be on hand to view the evidence.

[impulse]

Source, the UN. http://www.unodc.org...es-05012009.pdf

Belgium: 1.6- 2.1 intentional homicides per 100,000. Thailand: 8.2- 9.0.

But those stats are for Thais, the sub-stats for farang will be very different (and much lower).

Possily true, and a good theory.

But let’s go to another source: (Thanks Pompey50, Post #129) http://www.traveldai...port-240809.pdf

In that year, there were 7.2 million Brits living in and visiting the USA. 152 of them died. That’s one death per 47,200 Brits traveling to (and living in) that alleged den of gun violence- the USA.

In the same year, there were 853,000 Brits living in and visiting Thailand. 288 of them died. That’s one death per 3,000 Brits traveling to (and living in) Thailand.

One death per 47,000 in the USA and one death per 3,000 in Thailand. Now, perhaps that’s because Thailand is where old Brits go to retire and die. I'll be trying to get more info breaking down the causes of those deaths, but they're hard to find.

I’m not saying stay away from Thailand. I live here by choice. I’m saying know where the dangers are and adjust your behavior and actions accordingly. I don’t rent jet skis, I rarely travel far by private car, I don’t pick fights with taxi drivers over $3, and you won’t find me passed out on the beach after a full moon- no matter how much fun it could have been.

I enjoy Thailand- but I do it with some knowledge of the dangers- and choose my activities and behave accordingly.

My heart goes out to the family and friends of these two girls...

Edited June 17, 2012 by impulse

[saroq]

Source, the UN. http://www.unodc.org...es-05012009.pdf

Belgium: 1.6- 2.1 intentional homicides per 100,000. Thailand: 8.2- 9.0.

But those stats are for Thais, the sub-stats for farang will be very different (and much lower).

Possily true, and a good theory.

But let’s go to another source: (Thanks Pompey50, Post #129) http://www.traveldai...port-240809.pdf

In that year, there were 7.2 million Brits living in and visiting the USA. 152 of them died. That’s one death per 47,200 Brits traveling to (and living in) that alleged den of gun violence- the USA.

In the same year, there were 853,000 Brits living in and visiting Thailand. 288 of them died. That’s one death per 3,000 Brits traveling to (and living in) Thailand.

One death per 47,000 in the USA and one death per 3,000 in Thailand. Now, perhaps that’s because Thailand is where old Brits go to retire and die. I'll be trying to get more info breaking down the causes of those deaths, but they're hard to find.

I’m not saying stay away from Thailand. I live here by choice. I’m saying know where the dangers are and adjust your behavior and actions accordingly. I don’t rent jet skis, I rarely travel far by private car, I don’t pick fights with taxi drivers over $3, and you won’t find me passed out on the beach after a full moon- no matter how much fun it could have been.

I enjoy Thailand- but I do it with some knowledge of the dangers- and choose my activities and behave accordingly.

My heart goes out to the family and friends of these two girls...

Well stated and excellent advice which every visitor should heed.

However, I'd be interested in the figures for these types of mysterious deaths in hotels or the deaths caused by faulty electrical work etc. Like many others I recall the multiple deaths in Downtown Inn, Chiang Mai and the refusal of the authorities to investigate properly and the blatant cover ups by them. I hope we don't see a repeat of this but if the past is any indication then that will be the authorities MO.

[ginjag]

Many different types of deaths REPORTED (unreported ????) so we have the usual road carnage, accidental deaths during tours/adventure, most of these apart from who was at fault are normal holiday deaths (as in other places abroad) some others related to domestic incidents are not so normal, as money seems to be the reason for most of these, and near all nothing is being done to bring the true killers to justice.

For some reason the HOTEL incidents are shrugged off and never ever seem to have a true clear ending, same as an open ended air ticket. Cover ups must be the intention because of business interests, again money related, and no one takes responsibility. It's strikes me the initial report to the police, and the acting out of proper proceedures fails miserably, and no back up from any authority. ALL bodies protecting each other. SICK, and long term again a disaster for Thailand but Thailand does not care about long term, only NOW, money and saving face.

[geriatrickid]

I waited before posting as a number of "facts" being presented just did not sound right. The rule of thumb with events like this is that initial "facts" are unreliable and will change with time. Sure enough, more reliable information has been released. The skin condition referred to as "lesions" is apparently the result of natural decomposition on a rash. A rash occurs when the skin comes in contact with an irritant and it requires time to develop. The rule of thumb is 24-48 hours for a rash to have full onset. A rash and lesions are very different.

I suggest that people do not speculate lest they be embarrassed.

As for the people claiming conspiracies and danger, I direct their attention to the alleged rape that was exposed this week on Phuket. The Australian woman has confesed to a hoax. Always wait for the facts to be established before passing judgement. In Thailand, initial news crime or castrophe event reports are rarely reliable.

Edited June 17, 2012 by geriatrickid