Still Puzzled About Exporting Teak Furniture. Can Anybody Help?

[bombis]

I am still puzzled about the exact laws concerning export of teak wood furniture (or teak wood that is). I know you cant export the logs in any way. But what about furniture for example.

I know many companies here that sell loads of teak timber but I have yet to find one that does NOT sell teak from Burma. It all seems to come from there for price easons of course but also the good quality but normally it is not allowed to be exported to Europe for example.

Some seem to find a way around it by shipping it to Thailand, then to Europe. I have met companies before that openly stated they use Burmese teak wood in their furniture but that it is no prolem to export to Europe (deesawat.com for example is a big company that exports loads of teak furniture). How is that possible. Anybody knows?

Does anybody know teak wood traders that provide teak wood with proper licenses so that it can be exported? Or made into furniture first and then exported?

Or can anybody explain how large companies like Deesawat can export teak furniture to Europe wihout any problems?

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Edited June 27, 2012 by lopburi3
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[apetley]

You get a document saying the teak comes from a sustainable source or some such thing so it can be imported to Europe.

Someone I know imported alot of furniture to the UK using one such document.

It was a fake of course.

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[sandgroper2]

You need to know the moisture content of the wood the furniture is made out of. What is suitable for Ozz climates is not not suitable for european climates. Having said that, you cannot trust what the manufacturer tells you anyway. Ive seen them set their moisture meter to mahogany to test teak, gives alower reading than if the meter was set for teak.Etc etc. Ive done a bit of exporting , so i know.

[bombis]

@apetley: Kind of what I thought.... Still amazing how easy it would be to circumvent the laws on such an isse....Also, the other question is that after you were able to export it, then what happens at the UK (or other countries) customs. Don;t they check again? Well, I guess they caouldnt see if the paper is fake or not.

@sandgroper2: Actually I was only asking about exporting documents for teak.... not the quality level or suitability for climates...thats for another thread.

[jamescollister]

The reason it's mostly from Burma is under British rule massive teak plantations were put in. At the end of British rule there were more teak trees than when they arrived. Thailand does not have much in the way of teak plantations in comparison.

If you are found around here with undocumented teak logs you go to jail. Have loads of old teak furniture in the house, can't move it even to the nearest city without a permit. Jim

[BigJohnnyBKK]

The reason it's mostly from Burma is under British rule massive teak plantations were put in. At the end of British rule there were more teak trees than when they arrived. Thailand does not have much in the way of teak plantations in comparison.

If you are found around here with undocumented teak logs you go to jail. Have loads of old teak furniture in the house, can't move it even to the nearest city without a permit. Jim

"Here" meaning where? If in Thailand "you" must mean "those who don't know who/how much to bribe".

How do the authorities even know what you've got in your house?

[bombis]

I also think that it is not that strict within Thailand. Actually as far as I know as long the teak is not exported it is totally acceptable to by and sell it here. I have been to saw mills in Bangok the size of a shopping mall that had tons and tons of Burmese teak in them, nothing else.

Same goes for the wood markets in Bangkok. Burmese teak is openly sold without permits and it is OK. BUT if you ask them for export papers they will not provide it. One time I had somebody who said he has teak from Thailand and can provide papers but it was very expensive, multiple times of the Burmese variety.

[jamescollister]

The reason it's mostly from Burma is under British rule massive teak plantations were put in. At the end of British rule there were more teak trees than when they arrived. Thailand does not have much in the way of teak plantations in comparison.

If you are found around here with undocumented teak logs you go to jail. Have loads of old teak furniture in the house, can't move it even to the nearest city without a permit. Jim

"Here" meaning where? If in Thailand "you" must mean "those who don't know who/how much to bribe".

How do the authorities even know what you've got in your house?

It;s not what's in the house that matters it's what you put in a truck to move. Border soldiers, forestry and police have road blocks all around the border. Maybe grease a local cop to look the other way, but can't grease everyone. Jim

[jamescollister]

I also think that it is not that strict within Thailand. Actually as far as I know as long the teak is not exported it is totally acceptable to by and sell it here. I have been to saw mills in Bangok the size of a shopping mall that had tons and tons of Burmese teak in them, nothing else.

Same goes for the wood markets in Bangkok. Burmese teak is openly sold without permits and it is OK. BUT if you ask them for export papers they will not provide it. One time I had somebody who said he has teak from Thailand and can provide papers but it was very expensive, multiple times of the Burmese variety.

Willing to bet the wood has import paper work from Burma, except able in Thailand, but not except-able in the west. Illegal logging is big business in these parts. get caught and you will go to prison. Jim

[BigJohnnyBKK]

It;s not what's in the house that matters it's what you put in a truck to move. Border soldiers, forestry and police have road blocks all around the border. Maybe grease a local cop to look the other way, but can't grease everyone. Jim

I didn't realize you live that near a border. I'm assuming moving from say Chonburi to Saraburi wouldn't be a problem. And if the teak furniture were less than say 20% of the total, rest normal appliances boxed books and clothes etc I imagine even from Kanchanaburi to Ubon would be OK right?

[jamescollister]

It;s not what's in the house that matters it's what you put in a truck to move. Border soldiers, forestry and police have road blocks all around the border. Maybe grease a local cop to look the other way, but can't grease everyone. Jim

I didn't realize you live that near a border. I'm assuming moving from say Chonburi to Saraburi wouldn't be a problem. And if the teak furniture were less than say 20% of the total, rest normal appliances boxed books and clothes etc I imagine even from Kanchanaburi to Ubon would be OK right?

Yes should be no problem, not likely to run into a forestry or border soldier road block in the middle of a main road, or a traffic cop who's aware the lumber laws. Would have thought if you are coming from a city the furniture was bought from a shop, again no problem.

Here we have wood workers that make furniture for the locals and that can not be moved or you take the chance of being arrested. I have to get a permit to move crap wood from someones land to our rubber smoker.

Lot's of money to be made if the guys can get the wood or furniture out. Even being caught with a real chainsaw will see you go to prison, you need a license and have to pay a monthly fee to use it. Jim

[ripstanley]

The UN has lifted many trade restictions that it had imposed on Myanmar. It may pay to check if you can now export teak to Europe

[BigJohnnyBKK]

The issue is not so much Burmese sanctions, more the fact that these now-very-rare forests are protected by international treaties, which Thailand is violating by failing to help stop their decimation by plundering profiteers.

Wood farmed from legal sustainable plantations is of course more expensive than that stolen from protected wilderness reserves.

Supporting this trade in any way is IMO just as immoral as paying for sex with trafficked underage girls.

[bombis]

I agree....thats why I asked for any info on traders that trade with teak that is controlled, no matter if it is more expensive. Just to clarify: Im not looking for the light colored young teak that is easy to find. This is from plantations. I bought this before many times.

But I heard there is also the dark colored (older) teak but also coming form plantations. It is mor expensive but legal papers could be provided for it. Is this a myth or really existing. Anybody has info on that?

[ExpatJ]

Basically you cannot export teak products to EU or US or Canada- its a bureaucratic nightmare and your buyers will become frustrated as your shipments are held up for months.

[bombis]

Alright. Thats of course a possibility.

So how does it look like for all other wood types? Can they just be exported or is there also paperwork needed to export these to Europe? To proof that it is a sustainable wood and allowed to ship internationally? Do you still require paperwork just because its wood? I mean, I cannot imagine the customs know all the different wood types there are.

[apetley]

Hi. From the process my friend went through he had some sort of papers for all the different types of wood furniture he imported.

Sorry I do not know the exact answer and am loathe to ask him further as he's a <deleted>:-)

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[sandgroper2]

I agree....thats why I asked for any info on traders that trade with teak that is controlled, no matter if it is more expensive. Just to clarify: Im not looking for the light colored young teak that is easy to find. This is from plantations. I bought this before many times.

But I heard there is also the dark colored (older) teak but also coming form plantations. It is mor expensive but legal papers could be provided for it. Is this a myth or really existing. Anybody has info on that?

I did some exporting of what was called golden teak in Indonesia. Beautiful stuff, if you can get it.