Best Way To Invest Money In Thailand.

[elektrified]

today dear Newbies we learn the lesson "How to Invest in the Thai Stock Market".

there... there... don't be afraid. it's not rocket science. you buy stocks, wait till they go up and sell before they go down. and then you get ready to play the recovery. as simple as that!

but Master... what if they go down before they go up?

stocks always go up... in the long run!

ermm... Master...

yes Somchai?

Master, my Daddy bought stocks 18 years agoi in 1994 when the SET was 1,750. today we are slightly above 1,100. is that up or down?

sit down Somchai. your Daddy is a dummy. instead of playing the market he invested. serves him right!

That's ridiculous. I bought my shares in Europe 20 years ago and most of them are up 250-400% with very nice dividends having been paid to me each year, all those years.

[elektrified]

By the way if someone knows where there is a rock steady currency (vs THB), that also has investment potential for expats I will be all ears.

Cheers

Switzerland

[meand]

today dear Newbies we learn the lesson "How to Invest in the Thai Stock Market".

there... there... don't be afraid. it's not rocket science. you buy stocks, wait till they go up and sell before they go down. and then you get ready to play the recovery. as simple as that!

but Master... what if they go down before they go up?

stocks always go up... in the long run!

ermm... Master...

yes Somchai?

Master, my Daddy bought stocks 18 years agoi in 1994 when the SET was 1,750. today we are slightly above 1,100. is that up or down?

sit down Somchai. your Daddy is a dummy. instead of playing the market he invested. serves him right!

That's ridiculous. I bought my shares in Europe 20 years ago and most of them are up 250-400% with very nice dividends having been paid to me each year, all those years.

This reminds me of vegas. You are always hearing about these big scores everyone makes. Its a wonder the town doesn't go broke, as you never seem to hear stories about people losing for some reason. In any case, I am glad you have had some luck.

Edited June 26, 2012 by meand

[elektrified]

today dear Newbies we learn the lesson "How to Invest in the Thai Stock Market".

there... there... don't be afraid. it's not rocket science. you buy stocks, wait till they go up and sell before they go down. and then you get ready to play the recovery. as simple as that!

but Master... what if they go down before they go up?

stocks always go up... in the long run!

ermm... Master...

yes Somchai?

Master, my Daddy bought stocks 18 years agoi in 1994 when the SET was 1,750. today we are slightly above 1,100. is that up or down?

sit down Somchai. your Daddy is a dummy. instead of playing the market he invested. serves him right!

That's ridiculous. I bought my shares in Europe 20 years ago and most of them are up 250-400% with very nice dividends having been paid to me each year, all those years.

This reminds me of vegas. You are always hearing about these big scores everyone makes. Its a wonder the town doesn't go broke, as you never seem to hear stories about people losing for some reason. In any case, I am glad you have had some luck.

Sorry but after re-reading the post by member "Naam" I see he was specifically referring to the Thai stock market. My comment regarding blue chips in some European countries still stands.

[fletchsmile]

today dear Newbies we learn the lesson "How to Invest in the Thai Stock Market".

there... there... don't be afraid. it's not rocket science. you buy stocks, wait till they go up and sell before they go down. and then you get ready to play the recovery. as simple as that!

but Master... what if they go down before they go up?

stocks always go up... in the long run!

ermm... Master...

yes Somchai?

Master, my Daddy bought stocks 18 years agoi in 1994 when the SET was 1,750. today we are slightly above 1,100. is that up or down?

sit down Somchai. your Daddy is a dummy. instead of playing the market he invested. serves him right!

I have to say Dr.Naam that whenever you look at returns on equities and the SET in particular, there are two essential parts you always leave out . Much as I respect your fixed income knowledge, I'm starting to wonder if this applies to your general investing as well, given you omit the parallels. I'm curious, perhaps in investing 102 you could clarify:

1) Do you try and pick bonds/debt securities just before they are likely to take a haircut on repayment of principal, or in the case of corporate bonds choose companies where the free cashflow and profits are on too high multiplies to realistically meet the debt servicing ratios and interest payments? In short do you also seek out the worst possible time to buy?

2) When calculating your returns on fixed income/debt securities, do you completely omit the interest payments/coupons in the same way you always omit the dividends from equities in your calculations

Just curious

Edited June 26, 2012 by fletchsmile

[RAZZELL]

There are a lot of Thais driving around in their 10 Million Baht Mercs...when in Rome......where do they invest?

Probably in some "product" that comes over the border from Myanmar

RAZZ

Edited June 26, 2012 by RAZZELL

[JSixpack]

today dear Newbies we learn the lesson "How to Invest in the Thai Stock Market".

there... there... don't be afraid. it's not rocket science. you buy stocks, wait till they go up and sell before they go down. and then you get ready to play the recovery. as simple as that!

but Master... what if they go down before they go up?

stocks always go up... in the long run!

ermm... Master...

yes Somchai?

Master, my Daddy bought stocks 18 years agoi in 1994 when the SET was 1,750. today we are slightly above 1,100. is that up or down?

sit down Somchai. your Daddy is a dummy. instead of playing the market he invested. serves him right!

Just because YOU don't know how to make money in the Thai shares market, are paralyzed by fear of a market downturn, and only understand buy-and-hold the index, doesn't mean that others can't and are as simple as yourself.

But my advice to the OP, newbie at investing, was to use mutual funds such as those run by Aberdeen and Ing, whose professional managers have done pretty well playing the Thai market. ("Playing"--ooooh! deal with it.) If YOU want to consider those managers "little boys," then so be it. I suggest you address your sneers and fears to them: their sites have contact info for you. In fact, you might go ahead and accuse them of falsifying information regarding their funds' performance. (Do that right here in the forum, please!)

Take Aberdeen Growth, for example,

Personally, I'd be happy to have a return of 700% since 1997 (through that year 2000 downturn that scared you so much and from which it was IMPOSSIBLE to recover!) and I suspect the OP would too. But that's merely from a "little boy" managing 4 billion baht. Let's hear your big bad "grown up" return on your comparatively miniscule nut and compare it. Be very careful not to give any advice to the OP about how she might invest in Thailand. (Her question wasn't "should I invest?")

And you're still just trolling and wasting our time and yours. Nobody's intimidated by that childish sneering and posturing most uncharacteristic of the "grown up" to which you aspire. You got nothing more, why not buzz off?

[fletchsmile]

Something to think about before investing in things like Australian dollar bank interest at 5% is that at some point in the very near future the Australian dollar is probably going to depreciate. Whether this is due to government incompetence or the fact the Chinese stop buying the raw materials remains to be seen. It was reported reasonably reliably a while ago that the Aust government was aiming to get the currency worth about 1AUD= 75 cents US compared to parity today, based on previous Aust government performance it will do a reasonable overshoot and my theory is hit about 1AUD= 65 cents against the US dollar.

So you need to be careful that the 5% by the banks is not devalued by about 25% on the capital compared to say the Thai Baht due to currency movements. You need to work out where you wish to be ultimately spending the money, and ensure that relativity is maintained with that currency, plus gains if possible.

By the way if someone knows where there is a rock steady currency (vs THB), that also has investment potential for expats I will be all ears.

Cheers

Yes the people quoting interests rates on AUD remind me a fair number of people, who a few years back on here were touting how someone could live in Thailand on GBP 150k at 6%/7% when the exchange rate was 75 to the baht. Since then savings rates have dropped to much lower numbers, and GBP/THB lost 1/3 of it's value to around 50 if you're lucky. Result, income is around a quarter of what it was, and you can't really live on it now without touching your capital. AUD will likely go thru similar cycles and ups and downs, even if not as severe. The only question is when. I wouldn't like to be planning long term based on 5,6,or 7% AUD interest rates, with a strong FX rate too. As you say definitely not risk free or easy money for someone in Thailand.

I hold some AUD cash, but it's by no means a panacea for all investments.

For currencies, SGD can be a useful alternative to THB. It's one of the basket of currencies BoT link to when monitoring THB strength. As an Asian currency it's a reasonable store of value. What you gain on the relative steadiness of the FX rate though, is offset by very low interest rates - lower even than THB. But for someone nervous about keeping money in THB, because of capital depreciation, it is worth considering.

Edited June 27, 2012 by fletchsmile

[fletchsmile]

I would say the Thai stock market. It is both easy and cheap to get started here, much more so than in the west. Of course you shouldn't just jump into the deep water, but either paper trade for a year or so to get an understanding of how it works, what news to believe (and more importantly, what not to believe).

Stock Market is a gamble and should only be done if you can afford to lose money.

The counter argument to that though is that with the returns on the major currencies cash rates, you're actually losing money in real terms after inflation. Holding cash risks your money not keeping up with inflation and when combined with exchange rate risks for Thailand, you could really be up against it.

Hence can you afford not to play, and "take the gamble" if you want to keep pace with inflation? Many cash rates are poor, as are many quality currency sovereign bond rates.

How are you going to handle the THB FX risk.

In my view some money in THB equities makes sense for 1) returns 2) currency. As you say not without risk, but can you afford not to take some risk looking long term.

[Genericnic]

Buy as reliable an internet service as possible, then monitor and invest or trade with your funds overseas in your home country. If you must invest in Thailand, then I defer to the more knowledgable folks in that are on this board.

I agree with gk10002000.

I am an active day trader in the US market. In addition to the most reliable internet service available, a backup is essential.

The only downside I have found to trading on the US exchanges is that the market opens at 2030 and closes at 0300 Thailand time. Good thing I am a night person.

David

[mikekim1219]

I am in the same boat as the OP. Still too young to collect SS and IRA (without penalty). I was looking through Bangkok Bank (my bank) mutual fund performances. They looked very impressive. Anybody have experience with them? I have modest fund (250k usd) that I want to stretch till my IRA and , later, SS kicks in.

Would appreciate constructive advice

[onthemoon]

I am in the same boat as the OP. Still too young to collect SS and IRA (without penalty). I was looking through Bangkok Bank (my bank) mutual fund performances. They looked very impressive. Anybody have experience with them? I have modest fund (250k usd) that I want to stretch till my IRA and , later, SS kicks in.

Would appreciate constructive advice

I won't get any Social Security from the IRA either (scnr). And I am certainly no financial adviser.

What I do is I send certain amounts of money to different mutual funds per month, one of them being BBL's LTF. Others are in the UK and in Germany, spreading the currency risk. I would not invest a lumpsum anywhere, but that's just me. My (probably unprofessional) philosophy is that mutual funds go up and down, and by sending fixed monthly contributions, I'll even that out.

I plan to retire in 10 years, and I am not a member of any pension fund, and I don't have children who will send me money when I get old. As an investor, I am therefore very cautious.

[JSixpack]

I am in the same boat as the OP. Still too young to collect SS and IRA (without penalty). I was looking through Bangkok Bank (my bank) mutual fund performances. They looked very impressive. Anybody have experience with them? I have modest fund (250k usd) that I want to stretch till my IRA and , later, SS kicks in.

Would appreciate constructive advice

Does BB allow easy, cheap, and fast switching? Also, is the fee structure transparent?

A number of funds have done quite well, but the Thai market is relatively volatile. Switching out to a MM fund when a serious downturn seems likely (according to the indicators) may or may not reduce returns but let you sleep better at night.

Some of the Aberdeen funds let you invest more broadly than just Thailand. Switching isn't free (as last I remember) but the fees are quite bearable.

[mikekim1219]

I am in the same boat as the OP. Still too young to collect SS and IRA (without penalty). I was looking through Bangkok Bank (my bank) mutual fund performances. They looked very impressive. Anybody have experience with them? I have modest fund (250k usd) that I want to stretch till my IRA and , later, SS kicks in.

Would appreciate constructive advice

I won't get any Social Security from the IRA either (scnr). And I am certainly no financial adviser.

What I do is I send certain amounts of money to different mutual funds per month, one of them being BBL's LTF. Others are in the UK and in Germany, spreading the currency risk. I would not invest a lumpsum anywhere, but that's just me. My (probably unprofessional) philosophy is that mutual funds go up and down, and by sending fixed monthly contributions, I'll even that out.

I plan to retire in 10 years, and I am not a member of any pension fund, and I don't have children who will send me money when I get old. As an investor, I am therefore very cautious.

I thought about monthly contribution. But I think this is for younger man with a job. Since I am not young and I don't have steady income, my thought was generating some steady, relatively safe, return on my modest savings. I don't have rich children who will send me monthly check either. And short of finding a rich widow, I also need to be very cautious.

[mikekim1219]

I am in the same boat as the OP. Still too young to collect SS and IRA (without penalty). I was looking through Bangkok Bank (my bank) mutual fund performances. They looked very impressive. Anybody have experience with them? I have modest fund (250k usd) that I want to stretch till my IRA and , later, SS kicks in.

Would appreciate constructive advice

Does BB allow easy, cheap, and fast switching? Also, is the fee structure transparent?

A number of funds have done quite well, but the Thai market is relatively volatile. Switching out to a MM fund when a serious downturn seems likely (according to the indicators) may or may not reduce returns but let you sleep better at night.

Some of the Aberdeen funds let you invest more broadly than just Thailand. Switching isn't free (as last I remember) but the fees are quite bearable.

I am not sure if BB allows fast switching or transparent. I suppose those are the questions I need to ask when I visit their branch.

After reading your post on this forum, I am leaning towards Aberdeen. I have sent them an email inquiring about available branch office in Chiang Rai. I haven't heard anything from them yet. I may have to take a visit to BKK for sit down interview.

[Pinot]

I am in the same boat as the OP. Still too young to collect SS and IRA (without penalty). I was looking through Bangkok Bank (my bank) mutual fund performances. They looked very impressive. Anybody have experience with them? I have modest fund (250k usd) that I want to stretch till my IRA and , later, SS kicks in.

Would appreciate constructive advice

I will explain what I do, BUT (and I always say this to anyone I give advice to) don't take my advice I'm alway wrong.

I'm now about to receive my second SS check, just turned 62. I need dividend income. You want to try and not draw down principal. There is risk involved in what I'm going to tell you do but it's the best trade off of income to risk I've found.

I use Charles Schwab. Get an American address for your account. You can use a family member's address. Indicate you only want electronic communication. Whenever I need to talk to Schwab I use Skype. The reason to do this is you need to reside in the US to trade mutual funds (at least with them). The ability to use their bank to pull money from your account with no ATM fees is a key feature. If you have your IRA someplace else, transfer it to them. I would try not to pull income from the IRA because it's taxed. You may not have a choice but I leave my IRA money alone as much as possible.

What I suggest is high yield equities. These are ETFs and Mutual funds that produce dividends monthly or quarterly. I have about 15 different ones. They generate about 8% a year of dividends. Hopefully they also increase in value. 250k X .08 is 20k a year or 1600 a month. That's fully invested which would make me nervous.

I invest in 4 types of equities.

Junk bonds: JAHYX, TIYRX, STHTX, JNK, HYG, LQD

REITS: AGNC, HTS, NLY, MTGE, ARR, ANH

Senior Loans: EFT, TLI, VTR, VVR

Business Development Companies (BDCs): MMT get recommendations

REITs are particularly attractive now and some of them pay 15% and up. Remember the higher the dividend the more the risk. You can also buy Verizon and AT&T paying 5%+ or Exxon and Chevron paying under 4% but with a good growth potential. There is also high yield muni bond funds that kick out tax free income around 4% see SNTIX.

Every trade of ETFs cost $10 at Schwab. All the mutual funds mentioned are no load no fee funds. Mutual fund high yield tend to be more stable than the HY ETFs. Mutual funds are the way to go for amateurs. Easier to grasp. Schwab has recommendations in all these catagories.

Spread out your investments. Don't do anything until you know all you can about these kinds of investments. If you don't know about any of this stuff, get to work. You've got a lot of studing to do. Don't do anything till you're knowledgeable. It takes time to manage a portfolio. If you're just drawing down your IRA you're bleeding to death. Have a plan. Stick to it. Put stops in place.

Buy low sell high is the idea but dollar cost averaging buying a little at a time or monthly, slowly adding to your position may help. I would buy these equities in $10,000 lots (The market is high at the moment but these tend to be not as volitile as other investments. Put stops in place. These are orders to sell if the stock should suddenly drop, I would recommend somewhere around 7%.

2010 about 14%

2011 10%

2012 about even so far

I have slightly more money now than when I came to Thailand and I spend about 65K baht a month. Now I have SS so I expect to start to grow the nest egg.

Got that? What have I left out? Oh yea, don't take my advice.

[JSixpack]

Certainly viable. I might only point that Thailand levies no capital gains tax and a 15% dividend tax for foreigners that is recoverable. High reliable yields are available here as well. If you plan to stay in Thailand then holding only shares in a foreign currency does represent a currency risk--or opportunity.

[Pinot]

Certainly viable. I might only point that Thailand levies no capital gains tax and a 15% dividend tax for foreigners that is recoverable. High reliable yields are available here as well. If you plan to stay in Thailand then holding only shares in a foreign currency does represent a currency risk--or opportunity.

I think you still pay capitol gains in the US...no? I'm not sure how that works. I don't know how they would know, but any income is taxable. Does Thailand report income to the US?

Just now exploring doing investing here. Can you recommend a Thai online broker? My GF (wife) has caught the investing bug. Has the investment ticker channel running all day with her 100k baht worth of Bangkok Bank mutual funds. She'll come in so proud in the morning, "I make 200 baht!"

The American $ hit 32 this week. That represented a nice bump in income. Waddled down to the ATM and pulled 20k at 31.76.

When you say recoverable...?

Edited June 30, 2012 by Pinot

[Phil Conners]

Just now exploring doing investing here. Can you recommend a Thai online broker? My GF (wife) has caught the investing bug. Has the investment ticker channel running all day with her 100k baht worth of Bangkok Bank mutual funds. She'll come in so proud in the morning, "I make 200 baht!"

See my post #7 back on page one of this topic.

[onthemoon]

I am in the same boat as the OP. Still too young to collect SS and IRA (without penalty). I was looking through Bangkok Bank (my bank) mutual fund performances. They looked very impressive. Anybody have experience with them? I have modest fund (250k usd) that I want to stretch till my IRA and , later, SS kicks in.

Would appreciate constructive advice

I won't get any Social Security from the IRA either (scnr). And I am certainly no financial adviser.

What I do is I send certain amounts of money to different mutual funds per month, one of them being BBL's LTF. Others are in the UK and in Germany, spreading the currency risk. I would not invest a lumpsum anywhere, but that's just me. My (probably unprofessional) philosophy is that mutual funds go up and down, and by sending fixed monthly contributions, I'll even that out.

I plan to retire in 10 years, and I am not a member of any pension fund, and I don't have children who will send me money when I get old. As an investor, I am therefore very cautious.

I thought about monthly contribution. But I think this is for younger man with a job. Since I am not young and I don't have steady income, my thought was generating some steady, relatively safe, return on my modest savings. I don't have rich children who will send me monthly check either. And short of finding a rich widow, I also need to be very cautious.

True, monthly contributions make more sense when you are younger.

But you know what they say about investments: High risk = high return. This also means safe = low return.

Sorry, this is probably not very helpful.

[onthemoon]

Certainly viable. I might only point that Thailand levies no capital gains tax and a 15% dividend tax for foreigners that is recoverable. High reliable yields are available here as well. If you plan to stay in Thailand then holding only shares in a foreign currency does represent a currency risk--or opportunity.

Aren't risk and opportunity the same thing?

[mikekim1219]

I am in the same boat as the OP. Still too young to collect SS and IRA (without penalty). I was looking through Bangkok Bank (my bank) mutual fund performances. They looked very impressive. Anybody have experience with them? I have modest fund (250k usd) that I want to stretch till my IRA and , later, SS kicks in.

Would appreciate constructive advice

I will explain what I do, BUT (and I always say this to anyone I give advice to) don't take my advice I'm alway wrong.

I'm now about to receive my second SS check, just turned 62. I need dividend income. You want to try and not draw down principal. There is risk involved in what I'm going to tell you do but it's the best trade off of income to risk I've found.

I use Charles Schwab. Get an American address for your account. You can use a family member's address. Indicate you only want electronic communication. Whenever I need to talk to Schwab I use Skype. The reason to do this is you need to reside in the US to trade mutual funds (at least with them). The ability to use their bank to pull money from your account with no ATM fees is a key feature. If you have your IRA someplace else, transfer it to them. I would try not to pull income from the IRA because it's taxed. You may not have a choice but I leave my IRA money alone as much as possible.

What I suggest is high yield equities. These are ETFs and Mutual funds that produce dividends monthly or quarterly. I have about 15 different ones. They generate about 8% a year of dividends. Hopefully they also increase in value. 250k X .08 is 20k a year or 1600 a month. That's fully invested which would make me nervous.

I invest in 4 types of equities.

Junk bonds: JAHYX, TIYRX, STHTX, JNK, HYG, LQD

REITS: AGNC, HTS, NLY, MTGE, ARR, ANH

Senior Loans: EFT, TLI, VTR, VVR

Business Development Companies (BDCs): MMT get recommendations

REITs are particularly attractive now and some of them pay 15% and up. Remember the higher the dividend the more the risk. You can also buy Verizon and AT&T paying 5%+ or Exxon and Chevron paying under 4% but with a good growth potential. There is also high yield muni bond funds that kick out tax free income around 4% see SNTIX.

Every trade of ETFs cost $10 at Schwab. All the mutual funds mentioned are no load no fee funds. Mutual fund high yield tend to be more stable than the HY ETFs. Mutual funds are the way to go for amateurs. Easier to grasp. Schwab has recommendations in all these catagories.

Spread out your investments. Don't do anything until you know all you can about these kinds of investments. If you don't know about any of this stuff, get to work. You've got a lot of studing to do. Don't do anything till you're knowledgeable. It takes time to manage a portfolio. If you're just drawing down your IRA you're bleeding to death. Have a plan. Stick to it. Put stops in place.

Buy low sell high is the idea but dollar cost averaging buying a little at a time or monthly, slowly adding to your position may help. I would buy these equities in $10,000 lots (The market is high at the moment but these tend to be not as volitile as other investments. Put stops in place. These are orders to sell if the stock should suddenly drop, I would recommend somewhere around 7%.

2010 about 14%

2011 10%

2012 about even so far

I have slightly more money now than when I came to Thailand and I spend about 65K baht a month. Now I have SS so I expect to start to grow the nest egg.

Got that? What have I left out? Oh yea, don't take my advice.

Since I have all my asset in China and will be moving it to Thailand, this plan is not feasible to me. Also it's little too risky for my taste. Putting all my eggs in mutual fund seemed insane for my situation.

Since I am planning a cost of living budget of 40k baht per month, I suppose I can have them all in fix deposit at 3% and stay safe. With 5% inflation adjustment, I should be okay until SS kicks in.

I might dabble with Thai mutual with small fund and get feel of how it turns out. Thanks for your (non) advice anyhow..

[oops]

Buy a new condo not a 10 million baht unit but something for 1-2 million baht which many foreigners and middle class Thais can afford (bigger market for re-sale or rentals also). Buy off plan so it appreciates in value during the construction phase, and buy from reputable developers such as Q House or LPN.

You're right, buying off plan in Pattaya is the best investment you can make.

I heard Suan Sawarn,The Park and Heights Holdings among several others offer some great opportunities at the moment.

Sorry if you don't mind..... Buying off plan Who's plan are you buying? The one that says hey; buy this in a" company name" that ends up costing you more money than the Thai that buys his for less.

[oops]

I am in the same boat as the OP. Still too young to collect SS and IRA (without penalty). I was looking through Bangkok Bank (my bank) mutual fund performances. They looked very impressive. Anybody have experience with them? I have modest fund (250k usd) that I want to stretch till my IRA and , later, SS kicks in.

Would appreciate constructive advice

I will explain what I do, BUT (and I always say this to anyone I give advice to) don't take my advice I'm alway wrong.

I'm now about to receive my second SS check, just turned 62. I need dividend income. You want to try and not draw down principal. There is risk involved in what I'm going to tell you do but it's the best trade off of income to risk I've found.

I use Charles Schwab. Get an American address for your account. You can use a family member's address. Indicate you only want electronic communication. Whenever I need to talk to Schwab I use Skype. The reason to do this is you need to reside in the US to trade mutual funds (at least with them). The ability to use their bank to pull money from your account with no ATM fees is a key feature. If you have your IRA someplace else, transfer it to them. I would try not to pull income from the IRA because it's taxed. You may not have a choice but I leave my IRA money alone as much as possible.

What I suggest is high yield equities. These are ETFs and Mutual funds that produce dividends monthly or quarterly. I have about 15 different ones. They generate about 8% a year of dividends. Hopefully they also increase in value. 250k X .08 is 20k a year or 1600 a month. That's fully invested which would make me nervous.

I invest in 4 types of equities.

Junk bonds: JAHYX, TIYRX, STHTX, JNK, HYG, LQD

REITS: AGNC, HTS, NLY, MTGE, ARR, ANH

Senior Loans: EFT, TLI, VTR, VVR

Business Development Companies (BDCs): MMT get recommendations

REITs are particularly attractive now and some of them pay 15% and up. Remember the higher the dividend the more the risk. You can also buy Verizon and AT&T paying 5%+ or Exxon and Chevron paying under 4% but with a good growth potential. There is also high yield muni bond funds that kick out tax free income around 4% see SNTIX.

Every trade of ETFs cost $10 at Schwab. All the mutual funds mentioned are no load no fee funds. Mutual fund high yield tend to be more stable than the HY ETFs. Mutual funds are the way to go for amateurs. Easier to grasp. Schwab has recommendations in all these catagories.

Spread out your investments. Don't do anything until you know all you can about these kinds of investments. If you don't know about any of this stuff, get to work. You've got a lot of studing to do. Don't do anything till you're knowledgeable. It takes time to manage a portfolio. If you're just drawing down your IRA you're bleeding to death. Have a plan. Stick to it. Put stops in place.

Buy low sell high is the idea but dollar cost averaging buying a little at a time or monthly, slowly adding to your position may help. I would buy these equities in $10,000 lots (The market is high at the moment but these tend to be not as volitile as other investments. Put stops in place. These are orders to sell if the stock should suddenly drop, I would recommend somewhere around 7%.

2010 about 14%

2011 10%

2012 about even so far

I have slightly more money now than when I came to Thailand and I spend about 65K baht a month. Now I have SS so I expect to start to grow the nest egg.

Got that? What have I left out? Oh yea, don't take my advice.

Since I have all my asset in China and will be moving it to Thailand, this plan is not feasible to me. Also it's little too risky for my taste. Putting all my eggs in mutual fund seemed insane for my situation.

Since I am planning a cost of living budget of 40k baht per month, I suppose I can have them all in fix deposit at 3% and stay safe. With 5% inflation adjustment, I should be okay until SS kicks in.

I might dabble with Thai mutual with small fund and get feel of how it turns out. Thanks for your (non) advice anyhow..

Investning in Thailand is a gamble, and the only way to make a little money here is to bring a lot of money. They satong and baht you to death. I am at present moving my money out of Thailand and then myself. I have had it with the tax that comes in moderation with prejudice. You live here for awhile, you start buying and once your settled in....that's when you start seeing money leaving your hands without interest. I am not talking about women as you get what you pay for there.

[fletchsmile]

Certainly viable. I might only point that Thailand levies no capital gains tax and a 15% dividend tax for foreigners that is recoverable. High reliable yields are available here as well. If you plan to stay in Thailand then holding only shares in a foreign currency does represent a currency risk--or opportunity.

I think you still pay capitol gains in the US...no? I'm not sure how that works. I don't know how they would know, but any income is taxable. Does Thailand report income to the US?

Just now exploring doing investing here. Can you recommend a Thai online broker? My GF (wife) has caught the investing bug. Has the investment ticker channel running all day with her 100k baht worth of Bangkok Bank mutual funds. She'll come in so proud in the morning, "I make 200 baht!"

The American $ hit 32 this week. That represented a nice bump in income. Waddled down to the ATM and pulled 20k at 31.76.

When you say recoverable...?

As a general for US citizens, worldwide income is taxable. If I were a US citizen I would make the assumption that all my transactions are reported to the US. While that may not be the case, it is the safest option. There is an increasing trend for financial companies to report more and more to US so even if not reported now it may in future. Plus why skirt with law and look over your shoulder, wasting time worrying and taking actions to cover your tracks.

As an online broker, I'm very happy with KGI securities. Service is good, online platform good, regular emails and research. The only thing I wasn't keen on was all the admin and paperwork for setting up, but this is Thailand and you learn to live with it - besides was a one-off set up.

Careful though, as you wife needs to learn the difference between investing and trading, as they are two different animals. Mutual funds were a good sensible start to build on. I'd suggest limiting her online trading/investing in individual stocks to about 10% of her 100k. She can have just as much fun and learning with small amounts as large amounts, as many of the brokers charge commissions around 0.2% of the trade rather than flat fees/ minimum amounts. For online trading: just a couple of tips for her as a newcomer: don't be too eager to invest her money all in one go, and spread it over say 5 investments. The temptation for a newbie to invest it all at the start or over trade is high in all the new found excitement, so keep some powder dry. It's like having a new toy, and she'll want to play with as much as possible

Would also help if she did some reading first, and asked the broker for any investment info/ tools/ knowledge publications they have in Thai.

Edited July 1, 2012 by fletchsmile

[fletchsmile]

Investning in Thailand is a gamble, and the only way to make a little money here is to bring a lot of money. They satong and baht you to death. I am at present moving my money out of Thailand and then myself. I have had it with the tax that comes in moderation with prejudice. You live here for awhile, you start buying and once your settled in....that's when you start seeing money leaving your hands without interest. I am not talking about women as you get what you pay for there.

You may well be combining your thoughts on Thailand generally with investing. Sounds like you're going thru a phase after loving life in Thailand, you've had a reality check that it's not what you thought it was. Many people (myself included) love Thailand when they first arrive, then hate it, then (if they stay around) realise it isn't as great as they first thought it was, and nor is it as bad as they thought it was after that. For Thailand in particular, it's important to try and take emotions out of any investment decision.

While life-wise I can relate to some of your frustrations with life in Thailand, I've personally found investing in Thailand to be very worthwhile. I'm not sure what you're investing in, but I pay virtually no tax on my investments here. Indeed on some of them, such as LTFs the tax man gave me rebates of up to 37% of my tax to invest, where say a 500k gets me 185k back in tax, so a net cost of only 315k.

[HardenedSoul]

I've taken issue with the "I'm alright, Jack; pull up the ladder" attitude from Naam before. He's just one of those people who are programmed to be obstinate, unhelpful and downright acerbic.

Trust me, the best way to get rid of Naam on a thread is to directly ask him for his advice.

For example, "Naam, what would you suggest I do?"

You won't hear from him again.

[pkspeaker]

surprised you say that because i am from the us, and i find the construction here much better.. in the us all houses are constructed from a concrete base, then with cheap wooden 2x4s to make the frame of the house, covered with stucko and the walls are made of that cardboard type stuff (forget what they call it) i grew up in houses like that, the walls are so soft that when you want to put up a rock or girly picture you just press taks into the wall since it's so soft.. when you have a hurricane or tornado the house blows away, if there is a flood- it is destroyed, and it's prone to fire because it's wooded/cardboardish and very flammable, will be completely turned to ashes within an hour in case of major fire.. and be on the watch for termites and corrosion-will destroy your house.

here the houses are all made of steel reinforced concrete, the walls are hard, no taks or nails, if you want to put something on the wall you gotta drill holes, if it floods-can be cleaned up, chances are you won't have a major fire because it's not flammable, worst case it gets gutted, sorry termites, no softwood for you guys to gnaw at..

and the highrise condo's I see everywhere in pattaya and bangkok are gorgeous-they are not cheaply constructed (otherwise i wouldn't be sitting in a high floor right now

the only thing I would be wary of is some of the small lowrise projects but most of those seem to be fine as well and you can get more sq footage.. so really not understanding what you talking about when you speak of this poor construction epidemic plaguing Thailand!?

Buy a new condo not a 10 million baht unit but something for 1-2 million baht which many foreigners and middle class Thais can afford (bigger market for re-sale or rentals also). Buy off plan so it appreciates in value during the construction phase, and buy from reputable developers such as Q House or LPN.

You're right, buying off plan in Pattaya is the best investment you can make.

I heard Suan Sawarn,The Park and Heights Holdings among several others offer some great opportunities at the moment.

Every traveller getting off the plane thinks to themselves 'Ooh! I can afford an apartment at 1-2 million!, I get a guaranteed good return on my investment and I am now a player, an investor, someone who has a stake in Thailand and most of all status at the bar! I have arrived! I have somewhere now cheap to live OR invest. This is a one-way bet! A no-risk future'

Please someone give me a job working for one of the developer companies.

And now for the Achilles Heel. The strong point of the sale (price) will be transferred to the weakness in the resale price. The quality of build will be poor. Not so poor that the place will not look wonderful for 12-18 months while the place is being sold off, but after that that the bits will begin to fall off. If you are here for 3 weeks you don't see so much but watching a place go up over 3 months makes one marvel at how shoddy construction can be masked by a covering of plaster and concrete and paint. Not to worry some will say, I am here for good. And what will be easier than selling my place in 5 years time with inflation and getting my money back? You think so? The worm in the bud is that after you have distressed sold your shoddy apartment for a significant amount less than you paid for it, your capital loss will more than wipe out any gains so you think you will have made. A good investment. No way.

[elektrified]

surprised you say that because i am from the us, and i find the construction here much better.. in the us all houses are constructed from a concrete base, then with cheap wooden 2x4s to make the frame of the house, covered with stucko and the walls are made of that cardboard type stuff (forget what they call it) i grew up in houses like that, the walls are so soft that when you want to put up a rock or girly picture you just press taks into the wall since it's so soft.. when you have a hurricane or tornado the house blows away, if there is a flood- it is destroyed, and it's prone to fire because it's wooded/cardboardish and very flammable, will be completely turned to ashes within an hour in case of major fire.. and be on the watch for termites and corrosion-will destroy your house.

here the houses are all made of steel reinforced concrete, the walls are hard, no taks or nails, if you want to put something on the wall you gotta drill holes, if it floods-can be cleaned up, chances are you won't have a major fire because it's not flammable, worst case it gets gutted, sorry termites, no softwood for you guys to gnaw at..

and the highrise condo's I see everywhere in pattaya and bangkok are gorgeous-they are not cheaply constructed (otherwise i wouldn't be sitting in a high floor right now

the only thing I would be wary of is some of the small lowrise projects but most of those seem to be fine as well and you can get more sq footage.. so really not understanding what you talking about when you speak of this poor construction epidemic plaguing Thailand!?

What utter rubbish! Obviously you have never lived in California where houses are constructed properly. And electrical...plumbing...HVAC...etc., etc... all done properly. My home I owned in California was built in the 1940's and survived a couple of major earthquakes.

[pkspeaker]

I lived in texas and ca, the houses are overwhelming made of wood and 'drywall' (sic) cardboard, stukko, you didnt say that wasn't true? They might be constructed well but you cant deny the materials they are made of.

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