Myanmar 'No Threat To Thai Tourism'

[hellodolly]

Exploiting children for labour and women for the sex trade will not be allowed.

Thailand read and learn.............

Yeah, the ugly sex trade is still up and running in Thailand, with full support from the government.. But child labour has been pretty much eradicated, hasn't it? (Apart from the occasional car window washers, flower sellers e.t.c)

The ugly sex trade will definitely lose workers as Burma progresses in attracting visitors. The workers will start to return home.

[luckyman]

Controversially!!!!!..............I agree for now.................however!!!!.................complacency will undo Thailand.

In the medium to long term Burma will build the infrastructure required to damage Thai tourism, that will take time though. Thailand should be using that time to ensure that they are giving better customer service and a better product to tourists, in preparation for certain competition.

We know that's what they should be doing, we also know there is no chance of Thailand doing that. There will be trouble ahead.

I totally agree.

There is more than twenty little Kho Phi Pi's over there, the country side as well as the beaches are absolutely stunning and if Burma focusses on 'green' tourism, they will win the war with Thailand for the most Western tourist $$ in the end for shure.

Go check it out, go and see the country, if you liked Ankor Wat for example, go see Bagan, you will forget all about Angkor Wat in one day...

(if you can't wait, google 'Bagan Birma' for a sneak peak!!)

[phl]

The reality up till now is that Thailand has been the leader in this part of the world.

Thailand did develop an infrastructure and systems, HOWEVER Thailand stopped at that.

Typical Thai thinking is why change what works well.

The problem is, they stopped to care and look for ways to better it, while in the mean time Cambodia and Burma have been looking and learning what works and what does not.

GIve it a few more years , more like 5-10 years and those 2 will take a huge chunk out of Thai tourism trade.

Both countries have hard working people, hungry people and people with different attitudes.

I believe not only tourism will follow, but also manufacturing and investments.

NO problems with visa for foreign employees, no silly regulations for WP, can fully own the business and the list of benefits goes on.

Again, though it will take many many more years before everything happens

[Docno]

Why do people here keep saying prostitution will exist in Burma?? It already does, and quite openly from what I've seen in Yangon bars that cater to foreign tourists. And I suspect that's the tip of the 'sex work' iceberg, if Thailand and Cambodia are anything to go by (i.e., the sex trade catering to locals being far larger). In fact, I've read that there is a large collection of brothels in and around the national capital (Naypidaw - sp?). Poverty, imminent influx of a lot of money, ruthless businessmen, opportunities to make a lot of money quickly, a culture of corruption ... the recipe for a mess. And don't forget that the Lady does not have full power, so even if she wants to work against some of these things, she may be constrained by the very people who stand to profit (i.e., the people in the military who also run a lot of businesses and take care of each other).

[IsaanUSA]

Personally, if I was younger and unmarried, I would be beating a path over there as I think that the sleeping tiger is just awakening and will, in a few years, give Thailand a real shock. They may even make their visas more attractive to retirees and others?

What does this mean? What benefit does a younger and unmarried person (like myself) gain over an older or a married person?

If you can't work that out for yourself, maybe you shouldn't go

Or you could help out a forum-mate with his question.

[hellodolly]

All I see here is a lot of naivete combined with the typical Thailand bashing. I think it will be a miracle if Myanmar turns out the way some people seem to be envisioning it, best of intentions there may be. It's an incredibly poor country that's been largely cut off from outside exposure. The Cambodians suffered this (in more of an extreme) for 5-15 years, depending on your evaluation of the Vietnamese occupation, so maybe it's the better comparison that no-one seems to be making.

We see, over and over again, that when a country emerges from iron-fist military rule it is often like taking the lid off an over-heated pot of water ... things boil over, and we see dynamics and nastiness we were previous blind too (ethnic conflict etc). When this is combined with the introduction of free-market reforms, and when the country is very poor, we often see a spike in crime and corruption. Some people--and there exist these people in all nations--see the opportunities to make a quick buck, and they'll do anything and everything to make it rich while the 'going is good'. Again, think of Cambodia... and think of what a horrible mess Siem Reap has become in the past 10 years.

Oh, and like many of you, I've done some travelling in Myanmar previously. Yes, the average person was very nice, and the level of English surpasses that of the Thais, but there is also corruption and crime and a thriving black-market (who hasn't done a money exchange in a side aisle of Bogyoke Market. In fact, a good friend was scammed out of some money shortly after arriving there, which didn't leave a good taste in the mouth.

Also, there has always been a flourishing sex industry there (or in Yangon at least). Bars full of working girls can be found, though fortunately no Patpongs, and when you have "rich" foreigners going into a country mired in poverty, there's a good chance that the sex industry will explode (as it did in Cambodia). This is especially likely when you combine the tolerance of Theravadan Buddhism with the introduction of Western capitalism and the simple temptation of the money that can be earned (by both the girls and the people who sometimes exploit them).

I really hope I'm overly cynical and the people here (and there) are not being naive. But I'm not going to place any money with the 'rosey future' contingent....

I believe that Burma will turn out fine and prosperous but not in a short period of time. It will take many years but it will come. Sadly not in my life time. I have done a little traveling in the country and it is a beautiful Country. The people I met were nice but they seemed to have a hopeless attitude. This was before the elections.

[Phatcharanan]

Professionalism? Do me a favour.

Murders, hotel fires, scams, ruined beaches, polution, rubbish, riots, floods, lawlessness etc. Will also play their part.

Sounds a bit like Manchester really............minus the beaches.

Edited June 25, 2012 by Phatcharanan

[cdnski12]

Most people don't realise that Myanmar has a population of 50 Million, has huge amounts of Oil & Natural Gas and massive mineral deposits. Once the useless Military Govt is pensioned off, the Burmese can get on with making a decent economy. needless to say, the Chinese Mainlanders are frantically clawing out as much as they can, while the current Myanmar Military maintain power.

[RichardL]

I does seem like people living in Thailand have a much more negative view of the place than people outside the country.

Thailand is a pretty easy country to be a tourist in, and that counts for a lot. While there might be corruption etc, I don't think it's generally viewed as something that will impact toursits at all.

Myanmar, on the other hand, is known for its oppressive regime, and doesn't have the same tourist-friendly image.

The "authentic" angle is perhaps overplayed. The only people who enjoy roughing it a backpackers, as they also like to spend as little money as possible. More affluent tourists, on the whole, aren't going to find that appealing. They might like the genuine grit on their day trips out, but will want to be able to come back to rooms with en suite, a/c, maybe a pool etc in the evenings.

The sex tourism angle must put some off Thailand - but I don't think it's that many. As long as you don't go to Pattaya, it's pretty easy to avoid. It's not as if anyone is going to stumble into a Patpong bar by mistake.

Certainly another country opening up will be a threat to Thailand, but I'd still wonder how many first time visitors to the region don't go to Thailand. I'd wager even those who go to Vietnam or Cambodia either have been to Thailand before, or combine their trip with a visit to Thailand.

[redroo]

1 burma is for the conservative type tourist

2 thailand is for the unrestrained type tourist

glad to see the first lot leave

[theblether]

@docno so your point is that your agreeing with all the rest of us that say prostitution will be an issue in Burma? No one is denying that, it would be stupid to deny, the issue is that Burma will not allow a new Pattaya to be built on the Andaman.

@isaanUSA ok then, young free and single guys are far more able and adventurous than older men, and married men. It's a statement of the obvious, so as the old cliche goes, Go West young man, go into pastures new, be there at the start of the next big thing. You have chance to build a life in fresh territory, go take your chance, cos there are a lot of older men that wish they have the energy and vitality to take the chance. A lot of married men are trapped by responsibilies.

Don't you dare ask me to explain that even further lol. Just get your ass over to Burma as soon as you get a chance and see if you can get a foothold in the beginning.

Strewth, young folks nowadays......

[Reasonableman]

1 burma is for the conservative type tourist

2 thailand is for the unrestrained type tourist

glad to see the first lot leave

Glad for Myanmar if the second lot don't join them

[simon43]

They might like the genuine grit on their day trips out, but will want to be able to come back to rooms with en suite, a/c, maybe a pool etc in the evenings.

As I previously mentioned, it is very easy to build hotels with first-rate facilities in locations which lack decent infrastructure. Myanmar is an ideal location to use solar-assisted water heating, solar PV garden and street lighting etc etc. I'd be building over there right now if I had the funds

Simon

[chooka]

No country can realistically hope to surpass Thailand in sex trade expertise. As Myanmar grows its legitimate tourist economy, Thailand will continue to invest and proliferate its sex trade. They are the masters. Thais know how to do this, they are the world's experts in selling sex. So if Schipani can decode the Thai black economy and figure out how much money the Thai sex trade really represents, he can then make projections that really count. It would be very interesting to see the "behind close doors" breakdown of the ADB "internal" discussions to see what they really think.

Isn't prostitution ilegal in Thailand and the sex industry a Myth?

[chooka]

I would like to dedicate this little number to all those blind people at T.A.T.

Edited June 26, 2012 by chooka

[OzMick]

Every time I have used Kaw Thaung (aka Victoria Point) for a visa run, at least one of the spotty faced touts that surround you has offered me the use of his girlfriend, as well as a selection performance enhancing drugs.

Offers like "Very sexy, very cheap, only 13!" don't bode well for a prostitution free tourism industry.

NOTE - offers rejected, no further involvement or information available.

[brianP]

Most people don't realise that Myanmar has a population of 50 Million, has huge amounts of Oil & Natural Gas and massive mineral deposits. Once the useless Military Govt is pensioned off, the Burmese can get on with making a decent economy. needless to say, the Chinese Mainlanders are frantically clawing out as much as they can, while the current Myanmar Military maintain power.

So true, I believe Thailand's escalating pollution of tourist beaches is threat #1 and now with competition from Burma and it's vast untapped raw natural pristine coast and islands, it is going to be a tourism powerhouse. The fact that Burma has the population and vast natural resources means it potentially will be a major Asian entity. Only it's oppressive government has kept it so poor and dangerous.

Communist China is buying up every nations resources (USA included) it can and is expanding it's might. Thailand is smart not to allow foreign ownership of land. Thailand needs to re-invent itself and clean up all the trash and keep an eco-tourism agenda!

[kerryk]

Most people don't realise that Myanmar has a population of 50 Million, has huge amounts of Oil & Natural Gas and massive mineral deposits. Once the useless Military Govt is pensioned off, the Burmese can get on with making a decent economy. needless to say, the Chinese Mainlanders are frantically clawing out as much as they can, while the current Myanmar Military maintain power.

So true, I believe Thailand's escalating pollution of tourist beaches is threat #1 and now with competition from Burma and it's vast untapped raw natural pristine coast and islands, it is going to be a tourism powerhouse. The fact that Burma has the population and vast natural resources means it potentially will be a major Asian entity. Only it's oppressive government has kept it so poor and dangerous.

Communist China is buying up every nations resources (USA included) it can and is expanding it's might. Thailand is smart not to allow foreign ownership of land. Thailand needs to re-invent itself and clean up all the trash and keep an eco-tourism agenda!

Ya them foreigners might pack up the land and take it home! Gotta watch out for that. Heck the USA used to be a lot bigger till all those people started buying the land and taking it away. Of course we are all waiting for those eco-tourists from China and Russia to come flooding in.

[kerryk]

Most people don't realise that Myanmar has a population of 50 Million, has huge amounts of Oil & Natural Gas and massive mineral deposits. Once the useless Military Govt is pensioned off, the Burmese can get on with making a decent economy. needless to say, the Chinese Mainlanders are frantically clawing out as much as they can, while the current Myanmar Military maintain power.

Gee I wonder who does not realize Burma has mineral resources? Everyone I know does. The Chinese do. The Brits realized it 100's of years ago when they took over Burma for the first time.

[samsiam]

Most people don't realise that Myanmar has a population of 50 Million, has huge amounts of Oil & Natural Gas and massive mineral deposits. Once the useless Military Govt is pensioned off, the Burmese can get on with making a decent economy. needless to say, the Chinese Mainlanders are frantically clawing out as much as they can, while the current Myanmar Military maintain power.

So true, I believe Thailand's escalating pollution of tourist beaches is threat #1 and now with competition from Burma and it's vast untapped raw natural pristine coast and islands, it is going to be a tourism powerhouse. The fact that Burma has the population and vast natural resources means it potentially will be a major Asian entity. Only it's oppressive government has kept it so poor and dangerous.

Communist China is buying up every nations resources (USA included) it can and is expanding it's might. Thailand is smart not to allow foreign ownership of land. Thailand needs to re-invent itself and clean up all the trash and keep an eco-tourism agenda!

What do you mean by 'Keep'...to keep something, you have to have had it prior.

[chotthee]

Kao San Road will soon be empty, as Farang Kee Nok are moving to Rangoon's Strand.

[simon43]

Every time I have used Kaw Thaung (aka Victoria Point) for a visa run, at least one of the spotty faced touts that surround you has offered me the use of his girlfriend, as well as a selection performance enhancing drugs.

Don't take it personally, but perhaps you look the type

I travel every week to Kawthaung and have never had these offers from the touts...

I know that drugs and underage prostitution are available, as they also are in many other neighbouring countries. But like Lao PDR, I cannot imagine that Myanmar will come anywhere near the sleaziness of Pattaya.

Simon

[OzMick]

Every time I have used Kaw Thaung (aka Victoria Point) for a visa run, at least one of the spotty faced touts that surround you has offered me the use of his girlfriend, as well as a selection performance enhancing drugs.

Don't take it personally, but perhaps you look the type

I travel every week to Kawthaung and have never had these offers from the touts...

I know that drugs and underage prostitution are available, as they also are in many other neighbouring countries. But like Lao PDR, I cannot imagine that Myanmar will come anywhere near the sleaziness of Pattaya.

Simon

No offense taken or meant, but perhaps you look like the "other" type

[samsiam]

Every time I have used Kaw Thaung (aka Victoria Point) for a visa run, at least one of the spotty faced touts that surround you has offered me the use of his girlfriend, as well as a selection performance enhancing drugs.

Don't take it personally, but perhaps you look the type

I travel every week to Kawthaung and have never had these offers from the touts...

I know that drugs and underage prostitution are available, as they also are in many other neighbouring countries. But like Lao PDR, I cannot imagine that Myanmar will come anywhere near the sleaziness of Pattaya.

Simon

No offense taken or meant, but perhaps you look like the "other" type

No offence meant or taken...but that was funny.

[BarryM]

My experience of Burmese workers is of a work ethic that is wholly elusive to the Thai.

If Thai government officials learned how to read maps they might also notice it's western coastline has the development potential of a thousand Phikets. Without, I hope, it's endemic scams, lawlessness, murders, mysterious deaths etc

[simon43]

No offense taken or meant, but perhaps you look like the "other" type

No offence taken - I wasn't offered that either

[BarryM]

Twenty five years ago I visited Thailand as a backpacker. Ten years ago I was visiting 3-4 times a year as a "proper" tourist paying 40k baht a night for beach villas.

The best thing Burma can do is to encourage young adventure seeking tourists who are priced out of Thailand, because in ten years when they have their feet under trading desks at Goldman Sachsen et al they will be back with serious tourist dollars.

It's a lesson that Thailand has failed to heed in the last few years and I suspect the traditional thaiophile tourists who visit will simply age and die off.

[IsaanUSA]

@isaanUSA ok then, young free and single guys are far more able and adventurous than older men, and married men. It's a statement of the obvious, so as the old cliche goes, Go West young man, go into pastures new, be there at the start of the next big thing. You have chance to build a life in fresh territory, go take your chance, cos there are a lot of older men that wish they have the energy and vitality to take the chance. A lot of married men are trapped by responsibilies.

Don't you dare ask me to explain that even further lol. Just get your ass over to Burma as soon as you get a chance and see if you can get a foothold in the beginning.

Strewth, young folks nowadays......

Thanks buddy! Now I understand. I'm planning to go to Bagan at the end of the year. But I'm just going for vacation to have a look. I'm thinking more and more of Cambodia for the foothold though.

[lungmi]

I stay at the Burmese border. Small personal experience, but many "insider" informations (Burmese refugees, Karen friends).

The infrastructure, the hidden conflicts between the ethnic groups etc. will not allow a quick development to Burma.

Tourism will not be a big problem for Thailand, but the English language. In Burma a high percentage of older people have

a good English standard, better than most Thai English teachers and many "native" Expats.

I had a guide to visit some wats in Burma who surprised me with his BBC English.

Wait the opening of the Asean free trade zone and you will see where investors go.

[ginjag]

I have been in Burma and did find the people refresing, I am afraid I will not see the future Burma, as time is not on my side, but I will remember my visits with relish.

There are 1000 Phukets waiting, so beutiful, I do wish them well.

The reverse looks like happening there regime to change to democracy--and here I fear supposed democracy-change to dictatorial one state style power-unhealthy for the 80%.