BigJohnnyBKK Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 seen plenty of our colonial cousins put french fries in their burger's in the US.....same idea....i guess you come from a really isolated part of the US Upper east side of Manhattan, so I guess yes that's pretty isolated from mainstream America, praise the lord. Worked eight years total in restaurants there too, mostly high-end hamburger joints ($10+ forty years ago) and never saw this once. why not tip zero ? and dont go back if the service is crappy or staff is rude ? In the US the customers pay the service staff in these industries not the establishment. Just because they don't do "very well" in your judgement doesn't mean they should starve. You're not going to change the system by "protesting" in that way any more than posting here will change Thailand's customs. Bottom line - for the same reason you're advised to pay your taxi fare when you get out of a cab even if you're abandoning his services and looking for another cab because he didn't know how to get where you're going. I've seen people trying to stiff cabbies and wait staff get beaten in the states, not just in Thailand. But yes it's usually just verbal abuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckamuck Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 (edited) Really we should start another tip thread, but I guess it is related to service. My view on tipping: A customer should not have any obligation to pay the wages of any business he frequents. That being said the customer should have the honor of rewarding a server or any other person for a good experience. In the case of a well prepared meal the cook should get a tip (but that almost never happens does it). Somewhere along the line the greedy restaurant owners realized their staff was making good money on the tips so they cut back wages to a point where the wait staff became dependent upon tips. from this point on the customer not only pays for the product he pays salary too. And the honor of tipping for good service has transformed into a type of tax, and we all love to pay taxes don't we. 10% was a number we could all live with, 20% is a buzz kill. Edited June 27, 2012 by canuckamuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meand Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 The tip system in the US is out of control, there are looking for 15 to 20% even if you hated the meal and they are hostile if they don't get it. You want to bring that here? I have to agree with that view, I have been in restaurants in the US many times where not only has the food been awful the service has been abysmal and they still expect a tip. My daughter lives in the US and it amazes me that she still gives a 20% tip even when she is served by sloppy and rude staff. The amazing thing is that she doesn't see anything wrong in it. If you want to express dissatisfaction, it is perfectly appropriate to tip 15% or even less, maybe down to 10%. 20% should only be for good service. In a very expensive place, lower's OK, a cheap diner less so. That's the way it is, if you don't like it don't go there. I take the opposite view, and I really think it is more logical. If you don't like not being tipped (a charge that is not obligatory), then don't work there. You can't have it both ways: tipping is not obligatory, yet don't go out if you don't want to do it. That is not a reasonable combination of statements. Tipping is not obligatory, so don't expect them from every customer. That combination makes perfect sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerryk Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 People that nation bash are very shallow in my opinion Kerry! We can all take the michael out of each other and nicely so, but in this case no it is not rude. Now get off my case and concentrate on your own agenda! Ed I agree with you. (Except for Canadians of course) My point was if you are going to whine about others being rude you should not be rude and call people ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerryk Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 Really we should start another tip thread, but I guess it is related to service. My view on tipping: A customer should not have any obligation to pay the wages of any business he frequents. That being said the customer should have the honor of rewarding a server or any other person for a good experience. In the case of a well prepared meal the cook should get a tip (but that almost never happens does it). Somewhere along the line the greedy restaurant owners realized their staff was making good money on the tips so they cut back wages to a point where the wait staff became dependent upon tips. from this point on the customer not only pays for the product he pays salary too. And the honor of tipping for good service has transformed into a type of tax, and we all love to pay taxes don't we. 10% was a number we could all live with, 20% is a buzz kill. OK I'll give you the quick course in North American restaurant history. Wait staff used to buy their stations from the previous waiter. Some were quite expensive. When the waiter retired the money from the sale of his station was his pension. He operated like an independent contractor working in the restaurant. There was a cashier at the exit from the kitchen/entrance to the dining room that collected cash from the waiter for the food on his tray. The waiter also hired the bus staff to re set and clear his tables. The waiter also tipped the cook. If he didn't the cook messed up his food. Sometimes the cooks insisted in other favors from the wait staff. The waiter then was responsible for collecting from the customer the money he had already paid the kitchen/owner. The owner did not pay the waiter a wage. The waiter's only income was from the tip left by the customer for his service. From this system developed the modern restaurant which I believe some Canadians are familiar with. The tax man in the US changed things a while back and now the wait staff pay tax on wages and on a tip estimation amount. But this happened after my time in that part of the US restaurant business. It always did strike me as rather odd to pay minimum wage to a cocktail waitress who was making $50.00 per hour in tips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayayay Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 It's because alot of these tourists nowadays are rude in the first place especially the Russians and the Thais have had enough of their rudeness. and they they don't get paid enough for the amount of hours that they do. Dont just single out the Russian, Indians, arabs's etc.....some of the most rude people I have observed were westerners Brits, Yanks, German, Scandanvians..etc... I would say the russians and the brits, are the rudest I think every nation is quite capable of producing arrogant rude people, but to actually point a finger at any one nation is ridiculous. Yes, capable, but some nations are more capable than others. During my years here, I have seen some extremely rude behavior, and it has always been a Brit, except for one or two times, when it was a russian. Germans, Americans, Scandinavians, nope, sorry... It might be a coincidence, but I don´t think so. Does it mean all Brits and Russians are rude? No, did not say that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayayay Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 French fries in a sandwich, OK Lots of stuff works as a sandwich but bread and potatoes seems a bit redundant. French fries in a sandwich? Never heard of, yes, it seems very redundant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soutpeel Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 French fries in a sandwich, OK Lots of stuff works as a sandwich but bread and potatoes seems a bit redundant. French fries in a sandwich? Never heard of, yes, it seems very redundant. French fries are long stringy pieces of sh*t.....what we are talkng about are called chip butties, constructed from proper chip's preferably cooked in dripping, real butter, proper malt vinegar and HP sauce....this is not a hard concept to understand "French fries in sandwich"........how about "freedom fries in a bagette" for our colonial cousins.....bloody new word heathens...no class at all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StreetCowboy Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 French fries in a sandwich, OK Lots of stuff works as a sandwich but bread and potatoes seems a bit redundant. French fries in a sandwich? Never heard of, yes, it seems very redundant. Personally, as a student, I used to really enjoy my potato curry sandwiches. I never felt that there was any redundancy there. I suppose next you'll be saying you only need one french fry. I find that the trouble with lots of stuff in a sandwich is that it all falls out, and one of the objectives of a sandwich is to make a meal that is relatively easy and clean to eat while away from the dining table (oh, if only I had such a thing, my life would be complete) - I suppose a bit like a cornish pastie or a samosa for those of us that don't have ovens The thing I find most frustrating, in service generally, is delay. I order a drink when I want it - the first one, anyway, and I don't want to hang around waiting for it. Germany was undoubtedly the worst place I have ever been for pouring drinks slowly, and I was often tempted to ask for a can of beer while I waited... but that's just thew way that they pour their beer, and there seemed little point in tying to change it SC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckamuck Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 Never heard that bit of waiter history Kerry, you might of just pulled it out of your butt. It doesn't seem likely that waiters were hiring busboys either, did the other waiters have their own bus boys too. But just in case there is some truth to it I'll leave it be. My main point is you shouldn't have to pay for a product and then 20% more to have it delivered 20 feet. You can if you want to, but you shouldn't have to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StreetCowboy Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 French fries in a sandwich, OK Lots of stuff works as a sandwich but bread and potatoes seems a bit redundant. French fries in a sandwich? Never heard of, yes, it seems very redundant. French fries are long stringy pieces of sh*t.....what we are talkng about are called chip butties, constructed from proper chip's preferably cooked in dripping, real butter, proper malt vinegar and HP sauce....this is not a hard concept to understand "French fries in sandwich"........how about "freedom fries in a bagette" for our colonial cousins.....bloody new word heathens...no class at all... "New word heathens" - that's a bit lexiconovative isn't it? SC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soutpeel Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 Yes, capable, but some nations are more capable than others. During my years here, I have seen some extremely rude behavior, and it has always been a Brit, except for one or two times, when it was a russian. Germans, Americans, Scandinavians, nope, sorry... It might be a coincidence, but I don´t think so. Does it mean all Brits and Russians are rude? No, did not say that. Does it mean all German's,Yanks and Scadie's are polite...? the most obnoxious/rude gentleman I ever met in Thailand was a Norweigan and have seen some temper tantrums thrown by one of our colonial cousins because he couldnt get his own way as it was not the same as the "Land "O" Free" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckamuck Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 And what exactly is a proper chip? you Brits keep saying proper chip, like we all should know, but I haven't got a clue. We have all shapes and sized of fried potato pieces here. Which one is proper? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soutpeel Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 "New word heathens" - that's a bit lexiconovative isn't it? SC Say what... ...are you going to make me get the Oxford English off the shelf ?...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soutpeel Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 (edited) And what exactly is a proper chip? you Brits keep saying proper chip, like we all should know, but I haven't got a clue. We have all shapes and sized of fried potato pieces here. Which one is proper? Well put it this way...they aint the stringy bloody things you call French fries or Freedom fries... http://mark-knowles.hubpages.com/hub/Perfect-English-Chips The only thing I disagree with is cooking them in peanut oil.....only dripping will do... Edited June 27, 2012 by Soutpeel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StreetCowboy Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 And what exactly is a proper chip? you Brits keep saying proper chip, like we all should know, but I haven't got a clue. We have all shapes and sized of fried potato pieces here. Which one is proper? Square or rectangular in cross-section, about half an inch on a side, and the length of the potato, parallel to its longest dimension. If its a big wet baking spud with a very high water content, I prefer to cut them flatter, maybe half inch by a quarter, again, length of the potato. Fried in oil that is as hot as it gets by the time you've peeled and sliced the potatoes, which can get a bit scarey for the second batch. If you can smell smoke, its probably too hot, and you're not peeling fast enough. SC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdnvic Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 This might best be discussed in the food section (it's interesting enough for sure) but it's hardly Thai related anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckamuck Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 (edited) Now I know. thank you We have those In the west, they are quite nice. But it's not the size that counts eh? edited to apologize for the hijacking Edited June 27, 2012 by canuckamuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerryk Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 (edited) Never heard that bit of waiter history Kerry, you might of just pulled it out of your butt. It doesn't seem likely that waiters were hiring busboys either, did the other waiters have their own bus boys too. But just in case there is some truth to it I'll leave it be. My main point is you shouldn't have to pay for a product and then 20% more to have it delivered 20 feet. You can if you want to, but you shouldn't have to. I am so ancient I actually worked in a couple of restaurants that were still using this system as a young man. Yes all the waiters had their own staff; some would share a busboy if they weren't too busy. The better waiters always had a waiting list for tables. Everyone was tipped. You started by tipping the guy who parked your car/horses, and then the matre de who got you a better table and then head waiter who got you a good table waiter who tipped the bus boy and bartender and sommelier. Some restaurants had a flamer (table side cooking) that also had to be tipped. In old restaurants the dining room manager was not allowed into the kitchen except by invitation of the chef. The only restaurant that ever did this in Thailand to my knowledge was in the Oriental in Bangkok. Edited June 27, 2012 by kerryk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beechboy Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 Quite correct SC, except for the fried in oil bit. The traditional Brit. Chip is fried in beef dripping surely? On a health note, the thicker the chip is cut the less the fat that is absorbed. F.Fries are the worst culprits for calorific saturation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soutpeel Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 (edited) This might best be discussed in the food section (it's interesting enough for sure) but it's hardly Thai related anymore. Ok lets get back to Thai related....where do you buy dripping in Thailand ? Edited June 27, 2012 by Soutpeel 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StreetCowboy Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 This might best be discussed in the food section (it's interesting enough for sure) but it's hardly Thai related anymore. I was getting round to asking if someone could translate that into Thai, for next time I was in a restaurant that didn't have chip butties on the menu. To be honest, you're lucky if you can tell what's on the menu, some of the places I go. Could be gravy, or maybe blood... SC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beechboy Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 (edited) This might best be discussed in the food section (it's interesting enough for sure) but it's hardly Thai related anymore. Ok lets get back to Thai related....where do you buy dripping in Thailand ? Get you! As you quite correctly pointed out, not Thai related. Edited June 27, 2012 by Beechboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soutpeel Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 This might best be discussed in the food section (it's interesting enough for sure) but it's hardly Thai related anymore. I was getting round to asking if someone could translate that into Thai, for next time I was in a restaurant that didn't have chip butties on the menu. To be honest, you're lucky if you can tell what's on the menu, some of the places I go. Could be gravy, or maybe blood... SC Maybe even be coconut ice cream between two slices of bread...whats the deal with that one in Thailand ?......chip butties, sausage sandwiches etc I can understand...but coconut ice cream.... and our colonial cousins think we are strange... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StreetCowboy Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 This might best be discussed in the food section (it's interesting enough for sure) but it's hardly Thai related anymore. Ok lets get back to Thai related....where do you buy dripping in Thailand ? To be honest, I'm just glad to get away from all the peole whinging about service. Does anyone else find that they get fed up with people whinging and moaning instead of voting with their feet? If they were to offer anything constructive - for eample, a food way to excite and motivate staff into bringing your drink before they had finished cleaning all the glasses, it might be more helpful for the rest of us. And while we're having a good old whinge, does anyone else find dancing on the bar irritating? What are the staff to shovel beer across, if the bar is full of people dancing on it? SC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StreetCowboy Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 This might best be discussed in the food section (it's interesting enough for sure) but it's hardly Thai related anymore. I was getting round to asking if someone could translate that into Thai, for next time I was in a restaurant that didn't have chip butties on the menu. To be honest, you're lucky if you can tell what's on the menu, some of the places I go. Could be gravy, or maybe blood... SC Maybe even be coconut ice cream between two slices of bread...whats the deal with that one in Thailand ?......chip butties, sausage sandwiches etc I can understand...but coconut ice cream.... and our colonial cousins think we are strange... that sounds nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdnvic Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 Ok, it's clearly beyond redemption, but I hope the food discussion get's restarted in the appropriate forum. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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