Rent At Night Bazaar

[Utt]

Hi everyone, I'm a newbie in this forum, but no stranger to Thailand. More familiar with Bangkok, I spent my Christmas and New Year in Chiang Mai (my second time in CM) last December. Would like to ask whether anyone knows how much is the rent of a medium shop space at the Night Bazaar? Been thinking about the idea of doing a business in CM, and perhaps even residing in CM in the near future if its possible.

I love the city.

Would appreciate sincere advices from the experts. Thanks.

Utt

[SBACM]

Depending on Location,

But if your talking a street stall it is 10% of your Sales. plus tea money upfront

Good luck

[Ulysses G.]

Depending on Location,

But if your talking a street stall it is 10% of your Sales.

What red-blooded Thai would tell the truth about that?

[Utt]

Depending on Location,

But if your talking a street stall it is 10% of your Sales. plus tea money upfront

Good luck

Thanks SBACM. Probably bigger than a street stall. How about a setting up a cosy massage place? The rent per month for the traditional thai massages. Tea money...that means paying some $$$ to the locals? Can you elaborate?

This is a good site where you can know everything about Thailand. There are so many forums to read and time is against me to read all.

[highonthai]

"cosy massage place?"

Seems to me to been done to death, there everywhere! way to much competition. When was the last time you where at the NB?

[rishi]

"cosy massage place?"

Seems to me to been done to death, there everywhere! way to much competition. When was the last time you where at the NB?

... agreed... There are several existing massage parleurs in the NB area for sale for a few hundred bath... Unless you happen to have a bright idea on what other kind of business to set up on that place... well, think again.

edit/ I meant (of course) - a few hundred thousand baht

[Utt]

I was there last December only. But the massage shops are quite 'bare' and I think I can conceptualize a cosier ambience for customers. Of course I won't spend too much $$$ on the interior, but I believe I can have, maybe a 'niche' for customers who go for ambience....What do you think?

[rishi]

... I won't spend too much $$$ on the interior, but I believe I can have, maybe a 'niche' for customers who go for ambience....What do you think?

You're on the right track, thinking in terms of better quality than the competition. Since you're talking about renting - rather than buying. Since you're talking about not spending too much money up front... Well, unless you're on a really tight budget, why not give it a try? --- It all might end op prospereus and in worst case you'd have wasted just a few bucks on an adventure, that wouldn't be more than just that - an adventure. And that's not too bad IMHO - you can waste much more on socalled "fun" (giving you much less real fun).

A few things to concider with respect to estimating the prospected accounting buttomline:

1) Unless you're buying a franchise of a well-known brand - In a tourist oriented business, you can't charge more than the surrounding competition. Your eventual better quality won't get more passers by into your shop. Your better quality mainly works towards getting firsttimers coming again and again.

2) Talking massage parleurs, you - as a foreigner - will probably have an extra expense that your competition won't have. The majority of your competition will have the owner work as a fulltime massage-giving person. Unless you can convince the labour department, that you can improve the massaging skills of the Thais, you don't have a chance to be (legally) able to work fulltime as a massager.

[ThaiPauly]

The above is true, and even if you DID get a WP you will have to pay yourself a whopping great salary so that you will have to pay tax.

The people that own these places don't make much money as it is as far as I can see, My Wife has spoken to the owners of these types of places on several occassions when we were considering what type of business to start.

Don't want to dampen your ardour, if you think its worth a shot, go for it, just dont invest what you can't afford to loose

[Utt]

Hey Rishi and ThaiPauly!

Thank you for your great advices really. Well, I suppose some people might have already thought of what I'm thinking about and through - the many kind of businesses to set up etc. But I have not seen a shop that resembles something that I would want it to be (the idea and concept of my shop).

I'm Singaporean and would like to work full-time in my country, but manage the shop in CM with the trust and help of the locals (like a part-time business?). You guys were mentioning about tax and such. Could you guys enlighten me on the tax or financial rules/implications? I'm sure you guys are experienced in these...

By the way, are you both farangs in CM? Thanks for your help again.

[Johpa]

A few things to concider with respect to estimating the prospected accounting buttomline:

1) Unless you're buying a franchise of a well-known brand - In a tourist oriented business, you can't charge more than the surrounding competition. Your eventual better quality won't get more passers by into your shop. Your better quality mainly works towards getting firsttimers coming again and again.

Alas, in many places Thailand, especialy tourist areas, you won't be allowed to charge less than the surrounding competition without additional risk taking.

[ThaiPauly]

Hi Utt,

yes I am a farang in Chaingmai.

I really think that if you are NOT going to be "hands on" then whatever you do here just will not make you money.

I know for a fact that Thais or any nationals for that matter are very lazy when the boss is not there. I experieced it myself when I left my business to start coming to Thailand regularly.Profits nosedived and in the end I had to sell up as I could not effectively manage the business from abroad.Getting someone to have the same level of commitment as you would have (because its YOUR business) is virtually impossible.

My Wife runs a small restaurant and whenever she is not there the service to customers and the urgency to get the food out quickly is just not forthcoming, we have had feedback from regulars regarding this.

As for the tax implications, you would have to start a registered Thai Company (not that cheap) employ at least 4 staff who were Thai, have a registered capital of 2m Baht and pay yourself a whopping salary of at least 50,000 baht a month... and thats just for starters. You would also have to charge (and pay ) VAT, which would put a big hole in your profit as your competitors will probably not be registered companies and wont have to charge it, so you have to find an extra 7% from somewhere. You would more than likely have to put your staff on welfare as well along with only working a set number of hours a week.

I would dearly love to help out at my Wife's restaurant but I can't because to obtain a Work Permit I would have to be the registred owner pay VAT, tax, and all of the above I mentioned. It just is NOT worth it.

Anyway I hope the above is useful.

By the way, is it still raining in Singapore? I was there from last Friday till Tuesday and I think it did not rain while I was asleep. Otherwise it rained for nearly every minute!!!

Good Luck and thanks for the message

TP

[Utt]

Hi TP

Really appreciate your speedy response! And you were in Singapore just a couple of days ago!

Yes, its still raining here but signs of sunny weather are approaching as I breathe sunshine this morning for the first time this week.

Thanks for your honest and detailed opinion and advice. I think it will be difficult for me if I'm not, as you mentioned, going to be "hands on". You are right, the workers will get lazy as there won't be any "control" and monitoring on them. Think that's a crucial advice given. The bottomline is....Its MY Business! (And I would love to make it grOW)

I'm sorry to hear about your closing down of your business, but I'm sure you have learnt a good lesson and through that, I believe your business is doing fine and well now. My gf is Thai and I was just thinking about the plans to start something in CM. (Sorry man, perhaps I should have mentioned this earlier...)

For the tax implications, would it be 'easier' if my Thai gf starts the business? It seems like a huge amount of $$$ involved but I hope with the status of my Thai gf, things will get done much easier and quicker (eg. registration process, charges, VAT etc). The whopping salary of at least 50,000 for myself sounds 'weird' but I think that's how things are done in the Thai way. Can you explain to me what's a registered capital (of 2m Baht)?

I see your reason why you cannot obtain a Work Permit, provided you are willing to part with the financial sacrifices (I agree with you - not worth it). But you can help out in the restaurant whenever you are in CM right? Similiar to your situation, I think I will be 'exempted' if the shop is under the care of my Thai gf? So I believe you are staying in CM permanently?

I would have meet you if I knew you were coming to Singapore. But I'm sure we will have the opportunities again. Once again, thanks for the useful info.

Have a good weekend!

Utt

[ThaiPauly]

response PM'd

[Ajarn]

Seriously, don't spend anymore here than you can easily walk away from. Losing money here is far more popular than making it.

[ThaiPauly]

Seriously, don't spend anymore here than you can easily walk away from. Losing money here is far more popular than making it.

Amen to that Ajarn

[p1p]

Seriously, don't spend anymore here than you can easily walk away from. Losing money here is far more popular than making it.

Amen to that Ajarn

Hmmmmm. Saaatoo.