A Friend Of Mine Has Not Bothered To Register His Son As Dual Citizen

[hotandhumid]

Long story short...guy I know has a 4 year old son with a Thai woman, they are still together but the relationship isn't a good one, to say the least.

Anyway, I found out just recently that he hasn't bothered to register his son at the British embassy as a British citizen, the only reason is that he doesn't want to spend the Bt10,000.00 that is cost, but is quite happy to piss that up the wall in the bar. Plus he is probably too lazy to do the paperwork etc...

I am pretty stunned by this, as I have a son myself and getting him British citizenship was one of the first things I did, for obvious reasons.

For me this is pretty close to neglect, or am I over reacting? Surely he will be limiting his sons opportunitys when he grows up.

What do the wise old folk of tv think of this? I will expect the usual it isn't any of my biz, live and live live responses etc...but this doesn't sit well with me and I don't think of him in the same light as I once did...

H&H

[GentlemanJim]

well even if he had put away 200 baht a month he would be able to get the passport/paperwork now. It is quite sad, but I guess sometimes it just slips peoples minds, OR it does cost much more, having to travel to BKK etc. Ultimately, you have done the right thing and your friends actions will have long term consequences if the situation is not resolved. All you can do is talk it through with him over a pint, and if it is not the money, offer to do the paperwork for him, saying you have done it before and you know the ropes. The paperwork issue can be a real killer for some people!! He may be unable to do this bit!!

Good luck, and nice you are thinking of some other folks child who is not getting the attention that maybe they should.

[NanLaew]

If the father is indeed an citizen of the UK by descent, then his son is already a UK national and there's no need to fork out the extra dosh just to have a piece of paper as well as the birth registered in the UK. He should however, be encouraged to get his son a UK passport while he still has a working marriage only in as much as any Thai paperwork pertaining to the birth should be readily accessible. If he splits and the wife keeps the paperwork or it gets 'lost', then it becomes more difficult.

[edit for piss poor spelling!]

Edited June 26, 2012 by NanLaew

[cooked]

Same thing here, only I registered my two sons with the UK embassy in Switzerland. At the time this had to happen within 6 months of the birth, I imagine it is the same in Thailand nowadays. They were then able to study and work all over the world, with great financial benefit (the lucky sods). A friend in a more or less parallel situation, didn't bother to register his son, and then got very angry years later as his son had difficulties getting a work permit in the UK. As for the above post (GentlemanJim) I agree, you don't have kids every day and should seriously be looking out for them from the first day....

[Jayman]

I have 2 sons. The first I registered right away as he needed a passport to travel. My 2nd son is only 6 months old and I have yet to register him. I took him and the wife with me to the Embassy when I need to get some paperwork and they wouldn't register him without a special appointment which just wasn't available within the time frame I needed the paperwork. As a US citizen, my son is afforded US citizenship. How long we wait to register with the embassy doesn't affect that. Unless we decide to travel outside the country and he needs a passport then I will register his birth when it's convenient to get the family up to the embassy.

To be quite honest, I don't really see what the rush is anyways. He's a dual citizen regardless since his mother is Thai and his father is US born. He acquired his US citizenship at birth.

Just as a note.. for US consular report of birth abroad there is no time limit on when you have to file.

http://www.travel.st...nship_5199.html

http://bangkok.usemb...n-thailand.html

Birth Abroad to One Citizen and One Alien Parent in Wedlock

A child born abroad to one U.S. citizen parent and one alien parent acquires U.S. citizenship at birth under Section 301(g) of the INA provided the U.S. citizen parent was physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for the time period required by the law applicable at the time of the child's birth. (For birth on or after November 14, 1986, a period of five years physical presence, two after the age of fourteen, is required. For birth between December 24, 1952 and November 13, 1986, a period of ten years, five after the age of fourteen, is required for physical presence in the United States or one of its outlying possessions to transmit U.S. citizenship to the child.) The U.S. citizen parent must be genetically related to the child to transmit U.S. citizenship.

Edited June 26, 2012 by Jayman

[GentlemanJim]

I have 2 sons. The first I registered right away as he needed a passport to travel. My 2nd son is only 6 months old and I have yet to register him. I took him and the wife with me to the Embassy when I need to get some paperwork and they wouldn't register him without a special appointment which just wasn't available within the time frame I needed the paperwork. As a US citizen, my son is afforded US citizenship. How long we wait to register with the embassy doesn't affect that. Unless we decide to travel outside the country and he needs a passport then I will register his birth when it's convenient to get the family up to the embassy.

To be quite honest, I don't really see what the rush is anyways. He's a dual citizen regardless since his mother is Thai and his father is US born.

Just as a note.. for US consular report of birth abroad there is no time limit on when you have to file.

http://www.travel.st...nship_5199.html

http://bangkok.usemb...n-thailand.html

This is correct for British citizens also. It does not matter when you do it, but you really should get the passport as soon as you practically can. In the worst case, it means that you can travel with your children anywhere in the world more or less, and certainly back to the UK. It also affords your children a certain amount of security should you be hit by a underage girl in a fast car while you are traveling in a mini-bus and get killed. Remember, never regret the things you have done, just regret the things you didn't do! Those little short, eating, pooing, noise machines are relying on you!

[Jayman]

I have 2 sons. The first I registered right away as he needed a passport to travel. My 2nd son is only 6 months old and I have yet to register him. I took him and the wife with me to the Embassy when I need to get some paperwork and they wouldn't register him without a special appointment which just wasn't available within the time frame I needed the paperwork. As a US citizen, my son is afforded US citizenship. How long we wait to register with the embassy doesn't affect that. Unless we decide to travel outside the country and he needs a passport then I will register his birth when it's convenient to get the family up to the embassy.

To be quite honest, I don't really see what the rush is anyways. He's a dual citizen regardless since his mother is Thai and his father is US born.

Just as a note.. for US consular report of birth abroad there is no time limit on when you have to file.

http://www.travel.st...nship_5199.html

http://bangkok.usemb...n-thailand.html

This is correct for British citizens also. It does not matter when you do it, but you really should get the passport as soon as you practically can. In the worst case, it means that you can travel with your children anywhere in the world more or less, and certainly back to the UK. It also affords your children a certain amount of security should you be hit by a underage girl in a fast car while you are traveling in a mini-bus and get killed. Remember, never regret the things you have done, just regret the things you didn't do! Those little short, eating, pooing, noise machines are relying on you!

I do understand what you are saying but unless we plan to travel it's silly for me to get him a US passport. For babies they are only good 5 years anyways. My 1st born's is about to expire and I won't be rushing to renew that either unless we plan to travel on it. My wife has a US green card so even if I was killed tomorrow I'm sure that between her and my US based family there would be no issues getting him the needed documents "if" they needed to go back to the US. He's a dual Thai/US citizen regardless of his having a US or even Thai passport.

[hotandhumid]

Good replies so far...I was expecting the usual 'mind your own business' 'live and let live' type of replies..

I believe there is no time frame now to do this, so my chum still can do it, but if he hasn't done it already I can't see it happening now....disgraceful IMO.

[Jayman]

Good replies so far...I was expecting the usual 'mind your own business' 'live and let live' type of replies..

I believe there is no time frame now to do this, so my chum still can do it, but if he hasn't done it already I can't see it happening now....disgraceful IMO.

I can't speak for your friends situation but in the US things are handled differently if the parents are married at the time of birth or not. It's the same here in Thailand. If you are not married to the mother when your child is born here in Thailand you are NOT automatically recognized as the legal father regardless of your name being on the birth certificate.

I don't see it being irresponsible that I am not in a hurry to get my child a passport if we have no intention of travel. Most US born kids don't get a passport until they need one.

Whether I am dead or alive, my son is a US citizen from birth and proving it would not be that much harder if I was no longer here.

I have every intention to register his birth at the Embassy and even took him and my wife there to do it. I have all the paperwork filled out and the money is certainly not the issue. Traveling to Bangkok with a baby and my wife during the week when we have another son that is young and in school is not a simple thing. It needs to be coordinated and when the time is right it will get done.

If the mother and I were NOT married when the child was born then getting his birth reported and a US passport issued would be a MUCH higher priority indeed.

Edited June 26, 2012 by Jayman

[tinfoilhat]

If the father is indeed an citizen of the UK by descent, then his son is already a UK national and there's no need to fork out the extra dosh just to have a piece of paper as well as the birth registered in the UK. He should however, be encouraged to get his son a UK passport while he still has a working marriage only in as much as any Thai paperwork pertaining to the birth should be readily accessible. If he splits and the wife keeps the paperwork or it gets 'lost', then it becomes more difficult.

[edit for piss poor spelling!]

not sure about UK, but with the Canadian govt, after the age of 3, citizenship docs must precede passport.

While the child may have the right to citzenship from birth, that right becomes more difficult to assert after a certain period has passed with no documentation.

Also, the mothers signature is required for all docs, as i believe the fathers would be be before a Thai passport is issued.

Not sure if the fathers signature requirement is cast in stone for the Thai pp, but i never married the mother and they told her they would need my signature on the form as i was on the birth certificate

Edited June 26, 2012 by tinfoilhat

[glassdude007]

Good replies so far...I was expecting the usual 'mind your own business' 'live and let live' type of replies..

I believe there is no time frame now to do this, so my chum still can do it, but if he hasn't done it already I can't see it happening now....disgraceful IMO.

I can't speak for your friends situation but in the US things are handled differently if the parents are married at the time of birth or not. It's the same here in Thailand. If you are not married to the mother when your child is born here in Thailand you are NOT automatically recognized as the legal father regardless of your name being on the birth certificate.

I don't see it being irresponsible that I am not in a hurry to get my child a passport if we have no intention of travel. Most US born kids don't get a passport until they need one.

Whether I am dead or alive, my son is a US citizen from birth and proving it would not be that much harder if I was no longer here.

I have every intention to register his birth at the Embassy and even took him and my wife there to do it. I have all the paperwork filled out and the money is certainly not the issue. Traveling to Bangkok with a baby and my wife during the week when we have another son that is young and in school is not a simple thing. It needs to be coordinated and when the time is right it will get done.

If the mother and I were NOT married when the child was born then getting his birth reported and a US passport issued would be a MUCH higher priority indeed.

I am in this same situation, USA difficult to get paperwork started and apointments made travel from phuket get flights hotels booked while traveling with an infant as well only got 30 days off from work to get it sorted...

both parents need to apear at embasy to complete it..

but something i need to do ASAP

[JohnC]

Maybe your friend considers his son Thai and has no interest in registering him with the embassy and sees no need, not everyone sees their home country as an attractive proposition.

[Monkeypants]

My son is 2 years old, you do not have to register the birth at the British embassy as already said he is British by descent,

He doe's however have a British passport.

There is no plausible reason to register the birth at the british embassy, other than gaining a UK style Birth Certificate.

[simon43]

AFAIK, if the child was born whilst the couple were legally married, then there is no urgency to get a UK passport, since the child has automatic right to one. But if the child was born out of wedlock, then that automatic right no longer applies, and the father has to argue his case at the embassy.

Simon

[theblether]

Op.....a bit of lateral thinking here. May it be the case that your friend is deliberately avoiding registering his son for some nefarious reason?. You have already stated the relationship isn't good. Maybe your friend thinks that by not registering the child he is gaining some advantage?

You don't know what goes people's minds sometimes.......when things look as unreasonable as they do to you, look for the unexpected motivation.

Edited June 26, 2012 by theblether

[mike123ca]

I haven't gotten to registering my two children as Canadians. Most of their traveling has been to Laos anyway much cheaper for them

if they use their Thai passports. They can apply for it later on.

The one thing that does bother me is that if they do get Cdn citizenship, they must go and get residency in Canada or they will not be able to

pass on their Cdn citizenship to their children.

[johna]

Urge the farther to register the child now, before he prematurely steps of this mortal coil or the UK government changes the law, something they are very likely to do.

[tuky]

A Friend Of Mine Has Not Bothered To Register His Son As Dual Citizen

So what?

My kids are 10 and 8 and they don't have any Aussie citizenship papers or an Aussie passport.

Am I guilty of neglect? NOPE!!!

They can get it easily anytime no problem. Just haven't needed it yet.

So I say butt out of his business and stop making judgements.

[tinfoilhat]

A Friend Of Mine Has Not Bothered To Register His Son As Dual Citizen

So what?

My kids are 10 and 8 and they don't have any Aussie citizenship papers or an Aussie passport.

Am I guilty of neglect? NOPE!!!

They can get it easily anytime no problem. Just haven't needed it yet.

So I say butt out of his business and stop making judgements.

i think you may not find it a quick and easy as you might hope

[simon43]

Here's the link to the UK rules:

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/documents/britishcitizenship/informationleaflets/bnchapters/bn4.pdf?view=Binary

and indeed, it states that the British father must be married to his foreign wife at time of the child's birth in order for that child to be automatically entitled to a British passport/British citizenship.

If not married, then the father has to prove that he is the real father, and that can take time and money, and probably requires assistance from the mother re documents.

Simon

[tuky]

A Friend Of Mine Has Not Bothered To Register His Son As Dual Citizen

So what?

My kids are 10 and 8 and they don't have any Aussie citizenship papers or an Aussie passport.

Am I guilty of neglect? NOPE!!!

They can get it easily anytime no problem. Just haven't needed it yet.

So I say butt out of his business and stop making judgements.

i think you may not find it a quick and easy as you might hope

If you have T's crossed and I's dotted then I assure you it is as easy as I know. Sure it is not as easy as withdrawing money from an ATM and if you are a lazy type then it may be daunting but as long as you or your kids (at any age) are willing to do what is required then where is the problem?

A bus might hit me tomorrow but that won't stop my kids getting an Aussie passort in the next 50 years.

The same can be said for the OPs friend (Glad I dont have friends like the OP) depending on his nationality ofcourse.

So I resent the implication from the OP that I may be neglecting my kids because I didn't run straight to the embassy to get them citizenship papers and a passport, infact I see it as giving them a choice, what if they dont want to be aussies?

Their Mum has to apply for a visa anywhere she wants to go, the kids do too, it is not like they are going to be going anywhere without her.

http://www.citizenship.gov.au/learn/law-and-policy/legis_changes/descent.htm/

Descent

Main content

The Australian Citizenship Act 2007 contains no age and time limitations for registration of citizenship by descent. The only requirements for people applying to become an Australian citizen by descent are that:

• at least one (1) of their responsible parents was an Australian citizen at the time of the person's birth
  
• the person is of good character, if 18 years or over.
  

It is also a requirement that if a responsible parent of the person acquired Australian citizenship by descent, that parent must have spent a total of two (2) years in Australia as a lawful resident at any time before the person makes the application.

People born overseas before 26 January 1949 to a person who became an Australian citizen on 26 January 1949 are also eligible. The only requirement is that they are of good character.

I am 30 years of age. My parents were Australian citizens when I was born. I was born overseas. Will I be able to apply for Australian citizenship by descent?

Yes. The only requirement is that you are of good character.

Do I need to be in Australia to apply for citizenship by descent?

No. You can contact your closest Australian Embassy.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

Depends on the laws of the relevant country(ies) involved.

In the case of the children of a US citizen, completely irrelevant how long you wait, except the process may take a little longer to satisfy the embassy staff.

If a country requires a certain time window, well that's just bizarre to me, but par for the course some countries do love using bureaucracy to frustrate their citizens.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

both parents need to apear at embasy to complete it..

Only true if the parents are together or have joint custody.

I sure hope I won't need the mother of my children to cooperate, I can't afford her rates 8-)

[hotandhumid]

AFAIK, if the child was born whilst the couple were legally married, then there is no urgency to get a UK passport, since the child has automatic right to one. But if the child was born out of wedlock, then that automatic right no longer applies, and the father has to argue his case at the embassy.

Simon

I was not married when we had our daughter and didn't have any problems at the embassy.

[hotandhumid]

A Friend Of Mine Has Not Bothered To Register His Son As Dual Citizen

So what?

My kids are 10 and 8 and they don't have any Aussie citizenship papers or an Aussie passport.

Am I guilty of neglect? NOPE!!!

They can get it easily anytime no problem. Just haven't needed it yet.

So I say butt out of his business and stop making judgements.

There you go, someone had to say it. I'm jsut suprised that it took so long.

[hotandhumid]

Op.....a bit of lateral thinking here. May it be the case that your friend is deliberately avoiding registering his son for some nefarious reason?. You have already stated the relationship isn't good. Maybe your friend thinks that by not registering the child he is gaining some advantage?

You don't know what goes people's minds sometimes.......when things look as unreasonable as they do to you, look for the unexpected motivation.

Bleth - Appreciate what you are saying , but trust me with this guy it really is just a case of being too lazy and not wanting to spend the money.

[tuky]

A Friend Of Mine Has Not Bothered To Register His Son As Dual Citizen

So what?

My kids are 10 and 8 and they don't have any Aussie citizenship papers or an Aussie passport.

Am I guilty of neglect? NOPE!!!

They can get it easily anytime no problem. Just haven't needed it yet.

So I say butt out of his business and stop making judgements.

There you go, someone had to say it. I'm jsut suprised that it took so long.

I saw your post earlier so I didn't want you to feel left out. Did you notice I even got a few digs in?

[hotandhumid]

A Friend Of Mine Has Not Bothered To Register His Son As Dual Citizen

So what?

My kids are 10 and 8 and they don't have any Aussie citizenship papers or an Aussie passport.

Am I guilty of neglect? NOPE!!!

They can get it easily anytime no problem. Just haven't needed it yet.

So I say butt out of his business and stop making judgements.

There you go, someone had to say it. I'm jsut suprised that it took so long.

I saw your post earlier so I didn't want you to feel left out. Did you notice I even got a few digs in?

Yea, I'm back on the ropes for sure.

[billd766]

My son will be 8 in August.

He has dual nationality and I DID spend the time and money to get an official translation of his Thai birth certificate and registered his birth at the UK Embassy.

His first passport has expired and I will get him another one soon.

We were married at the time and my wife asked me to get him the English nationality, birth certificate and passport though I did tell her at the time I was doing it anyway.

[bermondburi]

My kids are nearly five and six and I haven't done it yet . I'm not going to bother either . People seem to be confusing registering the birth and obtaining a passport . i can only speak for UK nationals but if you don't register the birth it doesn't mean you can't get a passport . All it means is that the child will not have an issued in the UK birth certificate . I don't really see the issue here .

As for the passports . Any child born after June 2006 has an automatic claim to citizenship if their father was born in the UK whether the child was born in or our of wedlock . I asked about this at the embassy myself when my children were born . Even for children born before June 2006 if the parents later married then that would legitamize the birth and citizenship would be granted .

I haven't done my kids' passports yet because I know that they can be done any time and we haven't needed to as we've only gone to neighbouring countries where the THai passport was easier . However , we're moving to the Middle East this year so I will be doing it soon . I don't anticipate any problems .