Phi Phi Poisonings: Autopsy Results On Canadian Sisters ‘Inconclusive’

[a99az]

All we can do is wait for the results of the Canadian autopsy to hear the truth.

thank god that's happening.

results which no doubt will be dismissed.

You might want to dismiss the fact that the sun came up this morning, but it does not mean it happened.

[cowslip]

All this "other" stuff is now probably too late. I've seen how police treat an investigation scene - about 50 people just trap all over it.....including TV crew and members of the public.

[crazykopite]

Thai police bunch of jokers they woulkd not know the difference between natural causes and someone who had been murdered they are clueless I am not surprised that they came to this conclusion indeed I am very surprised they did not blame the ibuprofen as the cause of death on these poor girls.

[mowgus]

Post a 50,000 baht reward for the police to reveal the truth and suddenly two Thai guys will be sitting behind a desk surrounded by smiling police will be found guilty of something.

[Docno]

Why would the family would alow them to touch the body. They should know nothing ever go wrong here

Sent from my ST18a using Thaivisa Connect App

Why would you think they had a choice?? The 'crime' (if that's what it is) took place in Thailand, so Thai authorities of course will do the investigation (regardless of your personal views regarding their competence to do so).

[yummypizza]

This is very sad news all round,we've put men on the moon for Christs sake, we have two dead girls,not fair at all, i feel for the family....what happened???? oh dear emotions running high on this sorry...

[Misterwhisper]

“No [illicit] drugs were found in their systems and there were no signs of what may have caused their deaths. Now police have to wait for the results from investigations by other related organizations,” Maj Gen Boontawee said.

Who ever said they might have died from [illicit] drugs??? If testing only was conducted for traces of [illicit] drugs, I am not surprised at all that the test results were "inconclusive".

The fact that those so-called test results were released so quickly arouses suspicion that indeed tests were only conducted for a very narrow, predetermined number of illegal substances, and that no full-blown toxicology testing was carried out, which would have taken months to complete.

Has there been testing for rat poison (which commonly contains substances like 'warfarin' and 'strychnine') or cyanide compounds? Both can cause bleeding from the gums and under finger and toenails as found in the two sisters.

We'll never know and just can hope that the Canadian tests have been a little bit more comprehensive, although indeed the bodies may already have been compromised through embalming.

[ttelise]

One word:

ARSENIC

End of story. Everything else would pop easily. Arsenic easy to not find, especially if you do not want to find.

[hansgruber]

One word:

ARSENIC

End of story. Everything else would pop easily. Arsenic easy to not find, especially if you do not want to find.

Thank god you arrived.

Case closed.

[georgey]

All we can do is wait for the results of the Canadian autopsy to hear the truth.

thank god that's happening.

results which no doubt will be dismissed.

You might want to dismiss the fact that the sun came up this morning, but it does not mean it happened.

???

[dude007]

Predictable, Not one top person in charge ???, sending samples to a host of departments and await results. Were they initially just wanting to know if it was drugs ?? now they said inconclusive. Looking elswhere ?? Just doesn't sound thorough enough, time wasted again maybe this is natural to find out if anyone is treading on someones toes ?? sorry but this is not the first time it's happened.

The would have been happy to announce that it were "illicit" drugs... the the case was "closed".

What a big load of bullshit!

[ttelise]

“No [illicit] drugs were found in their systems and there were no signs of what may have caused their deaths. Now police have to wait for the results from investigations by other related organizations,” Maj Gen Boontawee said.

Who ever said they might have died from [illicit] drugs??? If testing only was conducted for traces of [illicit] drugs, I am not surprised at all that the test results were "inconclusive".

The fact that those so-called test results were released so quickly arouses suspicion that indeed tests were only conducted for a very narrow, predetermined number of illegal substances, and that no full-blown toxicology testing was carried out, which would have taken months to complete.

Has there been testing for rat poison (which commonly contains substances like 'warfarin' and 'strychnine') or cyanide compounds? Both can cause bleeding from the gums and under finger and toenails as found in the two sisters.

We'll never know and just can hope that the Canadian tests have been a little bit more comprehensive, although indeed the bodies may already have been compromised through embalming.

Sorry, that's just plain dumb. Do you know anything about testing for illicit drugs or their metaboites??? Also, these test are quick.

The tougher test are toxins that may reside only in trace amounts in certain tissues, such as Aresenic. Also, bacteria cultures for perhaps food toxins can be easy to impair integrity of and cultures may take 48 hours to perhaps 5 days to grow if no contamination and performed correctly.

[dude007]

One word:

ARSENIC

End of story. Everything else would pop easily. Arsenic easy to not find, especially if you do not want to find.

Thank god you arrived.

Case closed.

arsenic is one of the most easy poisons to detect... It's not so simple!

[HUAHIN62]

As I thought the report gave wrong information regarding where the autopsies were done. Here is the correct info: "According to MCOT.net, the examination of the bodies of Audrey and Noemi Belanger took place at the Forensics Department of Bangkok's Ramathibodi Hospital yesterday" This was reported in the Phuket Wan on the 20th. Shameless reporting, I don't trust this site anymore if you can't screen reports for accuracy before putting it out as the truth. I will dig deeper regarding what was tested for as I think that this was also reported incorrectly.

[ttelise]

One word:

ARSENIC

End of story. Everything else would pop easily. Arsenic easy to not find, especially if you do not want to find.

Thank god you arrived.

Case closed.

arsenic is one of the most easy poisons to detect... It's not so simple!

Not as easy as one may think. This is why it was used for so many years as a murder weapon. Mimics other siease processes and hard to find. Aresinic may be found in trace amounts in the GI tract in accute poisoinings. May not have had time to collect in hair follecule or nails if accute.

Can use Marsh test and I think its called Riensch test??? I seriously doubt Thai authoties used either, so I stand by my it is very difficult to detect if not want to find it statement.

Aresnic is easy to detect in drinking water and environment. Just not se easy in body. May be getting things mixed up here . . .

Edited June 28, 2012 by ttelise

[dude007]

Only one word: DESPICABLE...

[ThailandGuy]

I can imagine that if one person dies under misterious circumstances they cannot find anything or have such a conclusion. But two related persons? I that is completely unbelievable and or acceptable. If i was the father i would go insane of grieve not knowing who did this and or why this happened.

So sad that such happens in Thailand to such young people.

[khaowong1]

Ahhh my dear Watson, the game is afoot...

[12DrinkMore]

What a surprise. BIB couldn't organize a piss up in brewery, unless they had a profit share.

Totally incorrect.

Really, you should give these credit for what they certainly can do, maybe not in a brewery, that would be a bit boring, but anywhere with girls, music and booze.

Edited June 28, 2012 by 12DrinkMore

[Nisa]

Sad for the family that the cause of death couldn't be wrapped up quickly but unless the cause was an obvious toxin, infection..., I am not sure what other conclusion people would expect at 2 weeks from only a preliminary autopsy in what is likely going to be some kind of deadly toxin case.

2 weeks isn't even enough time to get a full toxicology report back and based on this report, it would appear they "might" not even have them cut them open as there is no mention of what organs failed or stomach content. Typically there would be some announcement of cause of death such as dehydration or a particular organ failure with unknown reasons for the failure. Hopefully in about a month the Canadian team who has performed a full autopsy will have determined the initial cause of death and they might even announce the resulting reason (dehydration, heart failure...) for death before then.

Again, just sad the family has to wait but am sure the coroner's office in Canada had prepared them that this will likely take some time to get any definitive answers.

[abq2020]

Not surprised. Always wanting get things like this 'done', but seldom making the effort or having the talent to have it done correctly. And the sad/bad truth about this is even if the Canadian examination is able to determine cause of death...what makes anyone believe that it will change what is being done here in Thailand. Hope I am wrong...

[jerrysteve]

Is it my understanding that the hotel has given the Police a copy of this person who's visa expired and who left the country because of his visa expired?

It is obvious these 2 sisters died of something they ingested. It will be interesting to see what the Canadians discover.

[Beetlejuice]

Yes, I agree, this whole thing is a sham, now that the Thai investigation has proved negative.

I believe the strategy here is to pussy foot around as long as possible in the hope that the matter will go away and be forgotten, similar to the Down town Inn farce in Chiang Mai, considering that the public have short memories once a major event is out of the limelight.

I watched an interview on Utube between an Australian journalist and the Chiang Mai Governor regarding the Downtown Inn deaths. If was as if he was ordered to deny everything and admit to nothing.

My knowledge of forensics is zero. zero percent and I wonder that when the Thai authorities had charge of the bodies, would it have been possible to had destroyed all the evidence? As somehow I’m not expecting any positive results from the Canadian investigation.

I am normally a staunch defender of Thailand when it comes under criticism, but this affair has certainly taunted my fond feelings towards this country.

Imagine how the parents must feel, losing two daughters without knowing, where, how or why?

Tragic and this whole state of affairs is sickening beyond belief.

Take a look at this video. Sound familiar?

Edited June 28, 2012 by Beetlejuice

[clinique]

Sorry I am confused. The Poruguese guy left on 17th after police reviewed CCTV on 16th. His Visa had expired.

So that means they knew who he was and had his passport and Visa details.

So why they didnt stop him leaving the country??? Takes one phone call to Immigration or the police black list his passport on computer, which is linked to immigratio and he would be stopped at airport..

Sounds very fishy to me.. Something of value changed hands ???

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I'm sure the local BIB are crestfallen that they're not able to conveniently blame illegal drugs as the cause of death for the two young women. That, of course, would take the blame off local causes and place it more on the women themselves.

Now, the Canadian authorities presumably will have to look for all the kinds of things presumably the Thais either don't want to find or chose to ignore, including tourism unfriendly potential causes like poisoning by food, drink, inhalation or other means.

As others noted above, no mention in the crummy local media report of whether the Thai medical examiners even tested for anything else other than illegal drugs. You'd certainly think they would have. But then again, this being Thailand, who knows.

[Nisa]

One word:

ARSENIC

End of story. Everything else would pop easily. Arsenic easy to not find, especially if you do not want to find.

Certainly no expert on the subject but wouldn't it take a considerable amount to have these kinds of fast results and isn't Arsenic something fairly easy to detect in blood, especially in high amounts? Again, no expert but have just read or seen things on TV about prolonged exposure and believe the symptoms are very similar except for how quickly these symptoms came on and killed.

The one thing that "might" be of note though is their was a picture of a zip log bag of some of their items from the hotel and it showed numerous medicines in packs you typically get at a Thai pharmacy and it showed a number of the pills had been taken. So, it is possible they were feeling ill before they they got back to the hotel and possibly before they arrived in Phuket ... but still strange that it seems they went from walking and partying to being dead in what seems to be around 12 hours of getting back to the room.

[jerrysteve]

If the canadian autorities find something that the forensic people did not find, then it will be another black mark against Thailand and some possible cover ups, or i just plain neptitude.

It is good that Thaivisa is keeping on top of this.

So many of these cases seem to fade into oblivion.

[SGD]

Obviously suicide then.

That seems to be the favoured cause explanation of random death syndrome in Thailand. Or perhaps they are waiting for a large brown envelope before concocting / miraculously finding some evidence ?

[jerrysteve]

One thing is for sure, these 2 sisters did not commit suicide

[ttelise]

Sad for the family that the cause of death couldn't be wrapped up quickly but unless the cause was an obvious toxin, infection..., I am not sure what other conclusion people would expect at 2 weeks from only a preliminary autopsy in what is likely going to be some kind of deadly toxin case.

2 weeks isn't even enough time to get a full toxicology report back and based on this report, it would appear they "might" not even have them cut them open as there is no mention of what organs failed or stomach content. Typically there would be some announcement of cause of death such as dehydration or a particular organ failure with unknown reasons for the failure. Hopefully in about a month the Canadian team who has performed a full autopsy will have determined the initial cause of death and they might even announce the resulting reason (dehydration, heart failure...) for death before then.

Again, just sad the family has to wait but am sure the coroner's office in Canada had prepared them that this will likely take some time to get any definitive answers.

Alright, gotta ask.

What test in particular take so long.

The actual test do ot take that long. Usually, it is a backlog in the labs. So, if they went straight to testing, they could easily be done now.

The chemicals/metabolites will pop on mass spec quickly and easily if illicit drugs or most toxins. The more length process is detemining concetrations or potential synergestic effects. This does not take that long either.

So again, which test did the Thai authorities not have to coduct?