Why Is Thai So Hard For The English?

[jbowman1993]

Sorry, couldn't resist

[Florin]

Because it's very hard to think of any good reason to learn it?

[Neeranam]

Because it's very hard to think of any good reason to learn it? smile.gif

Are you serious?

I guess you can't read the newspapers or watch tv. Maybe you always have a translator with you.

Learning Thai has many many advantages when living in Thailand - very strange to say there are no reasons.

[Thaipwriter]

It is very hard for the English, paractically impossible for most Americans and better we not speak about the Ozzies

[Ulysses G.]

I can easily talk the babes into doing perverted things that my buddies can only dream of.

How's that for a reason?

[gburns57au]

and better we not speak about the Ozzies

You're learning mate......dont speak about the Aussies unless you are an Aussie....And next time spell it right

[Neeranam]

I doubt it's your linguistic skills, but rather your wallet doing the talking.

[Florin]

Because it's very hard to think of any good reason to learn it? smile.gif

Are you serious?

I guess you can't read the newspapers or watch tv. Maybe you always have a translator with you.

Learning Thai has many many advantages when living in Thailand - very strange to say there are no reasons.

I can't read the Thai newspapers but the BKK Post is fine enough, don't watch TV and live/study/work in a very international environment, so at least in my case there is no need to learn it...I of course know basic Thai expressions which I need to get around, but in several years here I've never had a proper conversation in Thai.

[Jaffy]

I doubt it's your linguistic skills, but rather your wallet doing the talking.

LOL !

[Pudgimelon]

Sorry, couldn't resist

I wouldn't mind speaking in Thai more often if it wasn't so fraught with peril.

For example, "suay" can mean "beautiful" or "bad luck" depending on the tone. Likewise, "maa" can mean "mother" or "dog" or "horse" depending on the tone.

I can understand differentiating words by tone, but what I can't understand is how such dangerous pairing came into existence. Didn't someone realize that putting "mother" and "dog" on the same sound would make it very difficult for foreigners to avoid major verbal faux pas?

For example, you try to politely tell someone their mother is beautiful and you end up saying that they have a "bad luck dog". Ugh!

I'm absolutely terrified of using Thai around people's parents for that reason alone .

[The Dan Sai Kid]

I think it is just laziness when learning Thai. The concept of a tonal language is daunting and I know that when I started I worried too much about the tones.

On thing that doesn't help is that I find that some Thais switch off when they see a farang and even if you say something perfectly they didn't listen so they didn't understand.

[marquess]

One of the biggest problems when it comes to reading, is that all that words are bunched together. Believe me some Thais find Thai hard. It is worth the effort though, as learning it allows you to intergrate a bit more. Though I haven't actually spent any money on learning it, just got hold of a few books@!

[Jersey_UK]

Because it's very hard to think of any good reason to learn it? smile.gif

Are you serious?

I guess you can't read the newspapers or watch tv. Maybe you always have a translator with you.

Learning Thai has many many advantages when living in Thailand - very strange to say there are no reasons.

You mean there IS an alternative to using hand gestures and speaking louder??? Heiniken, Glass, Marlboro Light and ashtray = sorted.

(Actually am on attempt no 3...........but don't hold yer breath )

[Curt]

The tones are a big impediment.

Most "Westerners" aren't exposed to Asian language to any great extent during their youth.

Later on, language becomes more difficult to pick up.

[mraitchison]

I am still positive that I will abosrb Thai by osmosis one of these days or maybe by active transport.

[Jai Dee]

It is very hard for the English, paractically impossible for most Americans and better we not speak about the Ozzies

Oi... wot have you got against us Aussies?

I can sapeak nid-noi Thai... but I can't read a single word of it...

Seriously though... immersion in the culture does help you pick up the tonal nuances... if you're surrounded by Thais every day, you do begin to learn. Watching those (horrible IMO) Thai soap operas on TV also helps.

The best way to learn the language is to go to language lessons... but not many of have the time (or inclination) to do that.

My problem with advancing my own knowledge of the language is the fact that although I work for a Thai company, and surrounded by Thais every day, they only want to speak English, and better their own command of a foreign (to them) language.

What hope have I got?

[JSixpack]

For precisely the same reason that English is so hard for the English.

Those English who are able to learn to speak English mostly remain in England, being so well paid there. Those coming to Thailand, having ever failed to learn Received Pronunciation at home, cannot possibly be expected to master a tonal language like Thai.

[Richard W]

Likewise, "maa" can mean "mother" or "dog" or "horse" depending on the tone.

That's Chinese. In Thai the similar common words are [M]maa 'come', [R]maa 'dog' (but better to use [L]su[H]nak) and [H]maa.

Most "Westerners" aren't exposed to Asian language to any great extent during their youth.

Later on, language becomes more difficult to pick up.

On a technicality, note that many American languages are also tonal.

[Plus]

Thai soap operas is one good reason not to learn the language. There's enough garbage in English to filter.

Reading signs would help, though.

[buadhai]

Thai is hard for native English speakers because Thai must be precisely pronounced while English does not.

For example, if an American hears an Ozzie say something like: "I pahked my kah in the kah pahk", he may cringe, but he will still understand that the Ozzie has parked his car in the parking lot (hard r's please). English speakers are able parse a wide range of pronunciations and have learned to use context and other non-verbal clues to decipher what would otherwise be vague or incomplete utterances.

Thai's seem to rely solely on what they hear and do not, as a general rule, bother to use context or any sort of logical analysis to attempt to understand poorly formed Thai.

Thus, when one of my roommates was getting in his car and about to go somewhere he reacted to my poorly pronounced "bpai nai" as if I were ET asking for the Area Code for Andromeda.

Thus, when Ms. B and I were discussing my quest for a new barber, she reacted to my "dtat pom" (also poorly pronounced) as if I'd slid into Greek or Farsi. Never mind that the topic was haircuts and barber shops; she couldn't use context and logic to get past my poorly formed words.

The result is that I am terrified to use Thai at all because the certainty that I'll not be understood, or, worse, completely misunderstood, is enormously high.

That said, Thai's who spend a lot of time working or dealing with English speakers have often developed the ability to understand poorly formed Thai. Of course, they have an economic incentive to do so.

So, if you walk into a clothing store in Patong and inadvertently ask for a "wooden tiger", chances are good that the proprietor will know that what you really want is a silk shirt.

Good luck.

[Ricardo]

I suspect that it would help, if the script was even vaguely alpha-betical, so I could at least guess at what the word sounded like.

Had the same problem with arabic, but french/german/swedish no-problemo

[Plus]

My previous gf talked too much, I thought it was good I didn't understand 80% of it.

[PeaceBlondie]

Lots of reasons, most of them already stated:

1. Alphabet

2. Tones

3. Grammar

4. Thais think you can't speak it (and they're probably right)

There may be five more valid reasons, but those alone are sufficient to make it just too darn hard. Granted, if you're stuck in Nakhon Ahn Hevns Door for three years with no speakers of English, you'll learn it to survive. But in most of the big cities, you can survive speaking only English.

Same way with Thai food. Better to skip it entirely.

Edited January 12, 2006 by PeaceBlondie

[skylar]

The result is that I am terrified to use Thai at all because the certainty that I'll not be understood, or, worse, completely misunderstood, is enormously high.

Well, if you don't make mistakes, you won't learn anything. I was laughed at for more than a year as I got used to the way things were pronounced. Of course I was offended - who wants to be laughed at? It's not encouraging at all!

I grew up in Surrey speaking a very clear version of English. My dad on the other hand gave up his free company Thai lessons after 6 months because he didn't get the tones. However this is not suprising as his piano teacher gave up on him when he was six, complaining that my father is indeed tone-deaf, a common trait in English people. And it is well known that English people have time and time again demonstrated an inability to master any language, be it French, German, whatever. (Have a look at the GCSE papers - the level of French expected after 4/5 years of learning is pathetic - a German student knows more French in 1 year than even a A-level/IB student)

Personally, I don't know why some people say it's so hard. It takes practice, time and commitment.

[Neeranam]

It takes practice, time and commitment.

It doesn't take that long - how about 30 minutes a day.

I know lots of retired guys who complain about having nothing to do and moaning about not being able to understand the language. They won't learn, not they can't learn - anyone can learn Thai if they have the motivation or neccessity.

You could learn the alphabet in a couple of weeks if you just tried 1/2 an hour a day.

[mittheimp]

I know people who are tone death, speak thai in one tone and are perfectly understood because of the context - but you have to have enough vocab to make the context make sense (i.e the use of classifiers).

I also know people who can speak very good thai but cant read a word. This is just stupid coz it would take maybe 3 months to master the writing system (especially if you already have knowlege of thai).

Myself i can read (all be it slowly) a little, but enough to get on the correct bus and to read menus - which is handy. i'm pretty crap at speaking it though. The people who understand best are generally those that have a very good level of english already and thus there is no real point other than practise.

[Neeranam]

I know people who are tone death, speak thai in one tone and are perfectly understood because of the context - but you have to have enough vocab to make the context make sense (i.e the use of classifiers).

What about Thai people who are tone deaf? This is just an excuse for not learning it for many people.

I also know people who can speak very good thai but cant read a word. This is just stupid coz it would take maybe 3 months to master the writing system (especially if you already have knowlege of thai).

It took me about 3 months to be able to read anything. Writing takes longer.

[KhunPadThai]

In addition to the tonal difficulties there are these obstacles for native English speakers learning Thai:

1. Thai has over one hundred vowel sounds while English has about 35. We can't even hear some of the differences.

2. In English, and other Indo-European languages, the information is in the consonants. Vowels just make the consonants easier to pronounce. (Hence the souce of the word "vowel" in French, "voix elle", or "little voice". It just adds a voice to the consonant.) For this reason, if you were to remove all the vowels from a page of English text, native speakers would have no difficulty reading it anyway. In Sinitic languages such as Thai, the information is mostly in the vowels, not very much in the consonants. That's why Thai and Chinese learners of English tend to drop final consonants which can make their speech incomprehensible. On the other hand, when I deliberately drop final consonants in speaking a little Thai to my wife, she understands with no problem. Therefore we tend to focus on the consonants without paying enough attention to the vowels.

Although I don't know Thai, I expect the grammar is much simpler than English offering one advantage to the English learner of Thai. Thai doesn't seem to have verb tense, verb mood, articles, or the singular/plural distinction.

[buadhai]

Well, if you don't make mistakes, you won't learn anything. I was laughed at for more than a year as I got used to the way things were pronounced. Of course I was offended - who wants to be laughed at? It's not encouraging at all!

I don't mind making mistakes. When I travel in Japan I use my limited Japanese to good effect. I can read a menu, order food, ask directions and even do a bit of small talk. All this achieved with solo home study over the years. I'm not anywhere near fluent, but I do OK. I make lots of mistakes but at least I can make it work.

On the other hand, I've lived in Thailand for nearly a year now and studied Thai on my own (the same way I studied Japanese) for at least a decade before that. And still, no one, including Ms. B, understands anything I say in Thai and I don't understand anything anyone says to me. It would be nice to be able to have some successes as a means of encouragement. But, they never come so instead I'm just incredibly discouraged.

And, I'm sorry, I don't buy the argument that tone deafness is just an excuse. I do agree that tone deaf kids can learn to speak a tonal language, but it's much much harder for tone deaf adults.

I used to play the clarinet. Technically I was quite good and was even first chair in an orchestra. But, I could never even learn to tune my own instrument. I couldn't tell if my instrument was too high, right on, or too low. I had to have a friend tune it for me. I could never learn to play even a simple tune "by ear". My teacher finally gave up and said, "You just don't have what it takes to be a musician."

I simply cannot hear the differences in Thai tones. I have Ms. B repeat things over and over again and I just cannot tell if a tone is rising or falling or high or low or mid or whatever. If I can't hear the difference, how can I ever reproduce it?

After more than a decade of trying to learn Thai (Rosetta Stone, books, CD's, flash cards, etc.) I've concluded that my time is best spent on other pursuits. Let Ms. B handle the communication.

Oddly, even though I don't know the names of but a few Thai characters, I can actually read things like ads and street signs and menus OK. If I know the word I can read it to myself and know what it means. But, if I read it out loud no one knows what I'm trying to say because my pronunciation is so horrible and my tones non-existent.

Go figure....

[Patsycat]

It's a known fact that the best age to learn any language is when you are a kid. It is very difficult for adults to learn a new language. I know families here where the mother is english mother tongue, the father is say Swedish and the children go to a French speaking school - the kids speak all three languages fluently by, say, the age of 4 and then have the choice of learning another language as of the age of 10. So they are basically quadriligual when they are around 15.

Adults, on the other hand, get a blockage in their brain or whatever and even though they want to - cannot learn a foreign language easily. Its all down to the playground, children interact and learn from each other and don't have the hangups that we adults have.