Staying Alive At Any Price?

[impulse]

I can't speak for the citizens of more advanced countries with universal health care...

You mean the countries that are on the verge of bankruptcy because of entitlements?

As opposed to the USA which is on the verge without the entitlement to health care?

I'm not down on the USA as a whole. I just believe that a country as wealthy as ours shouldn't see people dying and put out on the street broke because they couldn't afford healthcare and their rent payment. Perhaps if we quit spending it all on wars?

[Ulysses G.]

I agree about the healthcare, but being able to afford it has to be taken into consideration and judging by what is happening in Europe right now, it may not be affordable.

[soi41]

I can't speak for the citizens of more advanced countries with universal health care...

You mean the countries that are on the verge of bankruptcy because of entitlements?

I am sure that the poster above means the Scandinavian countries, who despite their "socialistic" universial healthcare are doing very well. And unlike some masters of the universe countries, we don't print money!

[Ulysses G.]

They are also tiny. The US is huge in comparison and universal health care for so many people is a lot more problematic.

Edited July 7, 2012 by Ulysses G.

[giddyup]

I do not want to die. As stressful as my life can be, I have worked too hard to just say, mmkay, I'm crippled or incapacitated and I'm just going to toss the towel in and float away.......

I have obligations to some furry critters and I know that as long as I am breathing that I am doing some good for others.Perhaps some people are not in that position, or would be unwilling to fight for life. That's their personal choice, not mine. On the other hand, if I was a vegetable, I have no problem with the plug being pulled as I wouldn't want to spend my remaining days with tubes stuck in me, on life support, incapacitated. However, Mr. Death is going to have to fight it out with me in oher situations.I know that even with terminal cancer, there are painful actions I can take to prolong my life a few months or years. I will do it. I worked hard to put money aside for such a situation. That extra time will allow me to close things off and put my affairs in order. Besides, I want to keep living just to piss off those who want my money. Better yet, when I die and the critters get my money, I'll have the last laugh. On the other hand, if I am run down by an idiot driver, I'll never know, so who cares......

What you are descriping here was somehow, what I had in mind when I started this thread. If diagnosed with terminal cancer, I would try keep my self painfree for as long as possible and when that is not doable anymore, I'll drink my "Mexican medicine" and hopefully while waiting for it to work, think about all the good times I have had. I know it is very easy to say while still healthy, but that is my plan.

I mentioned the content of this thread to my wife, and she knows my position on this. After thinking about it for about 10 secs it came: "but who is going to feed the dogs?" Talking about having a pragmatic attitude towards death.

"Mexican medicine"? Please elaborate.

[CrazyKid]

I can't speak for the citizens of more advanced countries with universal health care...

You mean the countries that are on the verge of bankruptcy because of entitlements?

As opposed to the USA which is on the verge without the entitlement to health care?

I'm not down on the USA as a whole. I just believe that a country as wealthy as ours shouldn't see people dying and put out on the street broke because they couldn't afford healthcare and their rent payment. Perhaps if we quit spending it all on wars?

Maybe I am old SOB but I don't supporting people that made poor decisions and then want me to save them from themselves.

This about what we each want AND what we do to make our wishes possible. I joined the Military (USAF 1970-1974) and as a result have full medical coverage for life. I can take money out of my decision. In my case I am certain I want no extraodinary measures taken. I work in a Veterans hospital (6 more months) and about half the guys see it as I do. The other half say they want to stay around as long as possible. To each his or her own.

[meatboy]

every night i go to bed i dream of dying in the arms of a 17year old go-go dancer or god i am coming hey you wake up the dog wants to go out yes darling.what are dreams made of

[giddyup]

I can't speak for the citizens of more advanced countries with universal health care...

You mean the countries that are on the verge of bankruptcy because of entitlements?

As opposed to the USA which is on the verge without the entitlement to health care?

I'm not down on the USA as a whole. I just believe that a country as wealthy as ours shouldn't see people dying and put out on the street broke because they couldn't afford healthcare and their rent payment. Perhaps if we quit spending it all on wars?

Maybe I am old SOB but I don't supporting people that made poor decisions and then want me to save them from themselves.

This about what we each want AND what we do to make our wishes possible. I joined the Military (USAF 1970-1974) and as a result have full medical coverage for life. I can take money out of my decision. In my case I am certain I want no extraodinary measures taken. I work in a Veterans hospital (6 more months) and about half the guys see it as I do. The other half say they want to stay around as long as possible. To each his or her own.

What's a "poor decision" Getting sick? We have free medical care in Australia that's paid for through our taxes, but would I begrudge someone the right to access that care if they were unemployed? No. All the people who have lost their jobs in the US through no fault of their own, and who now have no means of paying for health insurance, have they made "poor decisions"?

[simple1]

I do not want to die. As stressful as my life can be, I have worked too hard to just say, mmkay, I'm crippled or incapacitated and I'm just going to toss the towel in and float away.......

I have obligations to some furry critters and I know that as long as I am breathing that I am doing some good for others.Perhaps some people are not in that position, or would be unwilling to fight for life. That's their personal choice, not mine. On the other hand, if I was a vegetable, I have no problem with the plug being pulled as I wouldn't want to spend my remaining days with tubes stuck in me, on life support, incapacitated. However, Mr. Death is going to have to fight it out with me in oher situations.I know that even with terminal cancer, there are painful actions I can take to prolong my life a few months or years. I will do it. I worked hard to put money aside for such a situation. That extra time will allow me to close things off and put my affairs in order. Besides, I want to keep living just to piss off those who want my money. Better yet, when I die and the critters get my money, I'll have the last laugh. On the other hand, if I am run down by an idiot driver, I'll never know, so who cares......

What you are descriping here was somehow, what I had in mind when I started this thread. If diagnosed with terminal cancer, I would try keep my self painfree for as long as possible and when that is not doable anymore, I'll drink my "Mexican medicine" and hopefully while waiting for it to work, think about all the good times I have had. I know it is very easy to say while still healthy, but that is my plan.

I mentioned the content of this thread to my wife, and she knows my position on this. After thinking about it for about 10 secs it came: "but who is going to feed the dogs?" Talking about having a pragmatic attitude towards death.

"Mexican medicine"? Please elaborate.

Nembutal (Pentobarbital) - go to following URL for an example:

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/MindMoodNews/story?id=5481482&page=1#.T_eogJExDcw

[geriatrickid]

I can't speak for the citizens of more advanced countries with universal health care...

You mean the countries that are on the verge of bankruptcy because of entitlements?

Canada has one of the more robust economies in the G8. Australia is in decent shape and so are Sweden and Denmark.

Edited July 7, 2012 by geriatrickid

[giddyup]

I do not want to die. As stressful as my life can be, I have worked too hard to just say, mmkay, I'm crippled or incapacitated and I'm just going to toss the towel in and float away.......

I have obligations to some furry critters and I know that as long as I am breathing that I am doing some good for others.Perhaps some people are not in that position, or would be unwilling to fight for life. That's their personal choice, not mine. On the other hand, if I was a vegetable, I have no problem with the plug being pulled as I wouldn't want to spend my remaining days with tubes stuck in me, on life support, incapacitated. However, Mr. Death is going to have to fight it out with me in oher situations.I know that even with terminal cancer, there are painful actions I can take to prolong my life a few months or years. I will do it. I worked hard to put money aside for such a situation. That extra time will allow me to close things off and put my affairs in order. Besides, I want to keep living just to piss off those who want my money. Better yet, when I die and the critters get my money, I'll have the last laugh. On the other hand, if I am run down by an idiot driver, I'll never know, so who cares......

What you are descriping here was somehow, what I had in mind when I started this thread. If diagnosed with terminal cancer, I would try keep my self painfree for as long as possible and when that is not doable anymore, I'll drink my "Mexican medicine" and hopefully while waiting for it to work, think about all the good times I have had. I know it is very easy to say while still healthy, but that is my plan.

I mentioned the content of this thread to my wife, and she knows my position on this. After thinking about it for about 10 secs it came: "but who is going to feed the dogs?" Talking about having a pragmatic attitude towards death.

"Mexican medicine"? Please elaborate.

Nembutal (Pentobarbital) - go to following URL for an example:

http://abcnews.go.co...=1#.T_eogJExDcw

Good to know if the worst came to the worst. I wonder if it's available in Vet clinics in Thailand? I don't know how many "good times" you'll get to think about, from what I just read it acts almost instantaneously.

Edited July 7, 2012 by giddyup

[geriatrickid]

.... Mr. Death is going to have to fight it out with me in oher situations.I know that even with terminal cancer, there are painful actions I can take to prolong my life a few months or years. I will do it.

Have you ever seen someone die slowly, knowing that nothing can be done?

I have, twice.

When my time comes (and please God/Buddha/whatever let me be run down by a bus rather than contract some awful wasting disease) I will not hang on for one minute more than necessary.

Yes I have. Family members. We are not holy rollers, and we believe in pulling the plug if need be. However, the desire of the patients was to fight until the end. It's why they were successful in life.The mental toughness and unwillingness to give up. It was a decision made with the support of the respective family members, not that their views really mattered since it wasn't their call. These people died after a few months, but they went out on their terms and in control.

I am a cold hearted person, but I also know that sometimes family members are a bit too quick to pull the plug because they, the family members, do not want to have to deal with the situation.

I respect those that want to go fast, but I caution that most of us will have long slow marches to the the river Styx. We fall apart as we age. However, miracles do happen. Not religious miracles, but sometimes people do awake from comas and sometimes conditions are treatable. A case that comes to mind is a family member that was 80 years old; He needed bypass surgery. He was told the chances were 50/50 of dying on the table or dropping dead within 2 years if he didn't have the bypass surgery.

He was in bad shape for the year prior to the surgery. He chose the bypass and 8 years later, he's still walking around, paying taxes, and all there in the head. Many elderly people would have just given up. He didn't and has had a lot of fun in those years. I think he's got a few more years left in him.

[bendejo]

that if you had a good and hopefully exciting life for 75 years, why is it so important to prolong it for another 5-10 years at big costs both economically and quality of life wise?

Right. No point spending your money to prolong your life, better to die with the cash in your possession.

[harryfrompattaya]

This is an amazing world and I want to stay here for as long as possible.

I don't mind (and would probably prefer) if someone else wipes my bum.

I agree as a old fool I say better to alive than dead. These young BS will be afraid if they found out they have HIV or Cancer they are all Bluff.

If they are so brave let them meet me in the Ring and will can bet on a fight I am ready to take home their money as well as their GF

[giddyup]

This is an amazing world and I want to stay here for as long as possible.

I don't mind (and would probably prefer) if someone else wipes my bum.

I agree as a old fool I say better to alive than dead. These young BS will be afraid if they found out they have HIV or Cancer they are all Bluff.

If they are so brave let them meet me in the Ring and will can bet on a fight I am ready to take home their money as well as their GF

Sounds like more BS to me.

[Ron19]

http://youtu.be/A3b9gOtQoq4

[impulse]

Maybe I am old SOB but I don't supporting people that made poor decisions and then want me to save them from themselves.

This about what we each want AND what we do to make our wishes possible. I joined the Military (USAF 1970-1974) and as a result have full medical coverage for life. I can take money out of my decision. In my case I am certain I want no extraodinary measures taken. I work in a Veterans hospital (6 more months) and about half the guys see it as I do. The other half say they want to stay around as long as possible. To each his or her own.

I appreciate that you served in the military. Good on you, and I am sincere in saying that.

But if everyone were to choose a public sector job with benefits like the military offers, who would be left to make the cars, build the homes, flip the burgers, and do all the other things that PAY FOR your benefits?

[giddyup]

Maybe I am old SOB but I don't supporting people that made poor decisions and then want me to save them from themselves.

This about what we each want AND what we do to make our wishes possible. I joined the Military (USAF 1970-1974) and as a result have full medical coverage for life. I can take money out of my decision. In my case I am certain I want no extraodinary measures taken. I work in a Veterans hospital (6 more months) and about half the guys see it as I do. The other half say they want to stay around as long as possible. To each his or her own.

I appreciate that you served in the military. Good on you, and I am sincere in saying that.

But if everyone were to choose a public sector job with benefits like the military offers, who would be left to make the cars, build the homes, flip the burgers, and do all the other things that PAY FOR your benefits?

Very good point.

[GuestHouse]

I can't speak for the citizens of more advanced countries with universal health care...

You mean the countries that are on the verge of bankruptcy because of entitlements?

No he's probably referring to countries bankrupted by neoliberal capitalism - tou might have missed the headlines.

[GuestHouse]

I appreciate that you served in the military. Good on you, and I am sincere in saying that.

But if everyone were to choose a public sector job with benefits like the military offers, who would be left to make the cars, build the homes, flip the burgers, and do all the other things that PAY FOR your benefits?

.

The reverse is a more intersting question. If we all opt for self serving money grubbing and nobody chooses to serve their country.

[soi41]

@giddyup. Yes Nembutal is available at Thai vet clinics.

[giddyup]

I appreciate that you served in the military. Good on you, and I am sincere in saying that.

But if everyone were to choose a public sector job with benefits like the military offers, who would be left to make the cars, build the homes, flip the burgers, and do all the other things that PAY FOR your benefits?

.

The reverse is a more intersting question. If we all opt for self serving money grubbing and nobody chooses to serve their country.

Why don't we all have government jobs like in the former USSR? We all know how well that worked. BTW, I don't consider working for a wage in the private sector "money grubbing", but just trying to make a living like everyone else.

[giddyup]

@giddyup. Yes Nembutal is available at Thai vet clinics.

Thanks for that. Not quite ready for the great beyond just yet, but it's good to know.

[CrazyKid]

_{Staying alive at any cost...Yes to a point I would.}

_{As far as me paying for your health insurance, no thank you. I have paid taxes for 40 plus years so I can have benefits. I like the new healthcare law in US. Pay for your own health insurance is the idea. It will tough for many people here and i think all that want health care will be able to get it. The problem is many say "I don't need health insurance" then they get hurt and ask the rest of us to pay our own health care cost and theirs. I know people here that said "I need a new car, I want to get married and have a kid and i can't do all that and pay for insurance". Most states here require car insurance to licence a car for the road and the new law requires health insurance or pay a fine. Till the new law gets working I support helping those that need it. Someone that decides to use there money for a new car or wants to start a family they can't support, I say you pay your own way. I have have gone off topic, sorry}

[giddyup]

_{Staying alive at any cost...Yes to a point I would.}

_{As far as me paying for your health insurance, no thank you. I have paid taxes for 40 plus years so I can have benefits. I like the new healthcare law in US. Pay for your own health insurance is the idea. It will tough for many people here and i think all that want health care will be able to get it. The problem is many say "I don't need health insurance" then they get hurt and ask the rest of us to pay our own health care cost and theirs. I know people here that said "I need a new car, I want to get married and have a kid and i can't do all that and pay for insurance". Most states here require car insurance to licence a car for the road and the new law requires health insurance or pay a fine. Till the new law gets working I support helping those that need it. Someone that decides to use there money for a new car or wants to start a family they can't support, I say you pay your own way. I have have gone off topic, sorry}

How do you pay for health insurance in the USA if you are one of the unemployed millions? Sounds like a case of "I'm alright Jack".

[impulse]

_{Staying alive at any cost...Yes to a point I would.}

_{As far as me paying for your health insurance, no thank you. I have paid taxes for 40 plus years so I can have benefits. I like the new healthcare law in US. Pay for your own health insurance is the idea. It will tough for many people here and i think all that want health care will be able to get it. The problem is many say "I don't need health insurance" then they get hurt and ask the rest of us to pay our own health care cost and theirs. I know people here that said "I need a new car, I want to get married and have a kid and i can't do all that and pay for insurance". Most states here require car insurance to licence a car for the road and the new law requires health insurance or pay a fine. Till the new law gets working I support helping those that need it. Someone that decides to use there money for a new car or wants to start a family they can't support, I say you pay your own way. I have have gone off topic, sorry}

I don't disagree with you there. But when you're talking about end of life care, a lot of folks that lived responsible lives and made all the "right decisions" are seeing their pensions and insurance benefits disappearing as companies loot their retirement accounts, or get bought by venture (vulture) capitalists that saddle the companies with so much debt they declare bankruptcy.

Or good folks that worked for towns like Stockton California that will probably lose out on a lot of what they were promised.

Or good folks that worked for Enron or Worldcom who saw their financial lives in tatters through no fault of their own, or folks that bought homes that are worth half of what they paid for them, or....

You made a decision to go into the military. What if Congress, in their infinite wisdom, decided that the USA can no longer afford to fund the promises that were made to you? God forbid it should happen, but you'd suddenly realize what millions of good, hard working people have felt as their financial lives got ripped out from underneath them because they made perfectly good decisions that were undermined by the behavior and actions of others they had never met.

Edited July 7, 2012 by impulse

[phuturatica]

In comparison to majority of the people on this forum... I'm relatively young being 24 an' all... However I am not afraid to die.

I think having a lifetime illness has contributed to this and I have learnt to accept that some people live long lives and some people live short lives. However whether they're short or not, its up to you to make the best of what you got!

Obviously with my chronic kidney disease, there will inevitably one day when I have to go on dialysis and my life span has been predicted to be considerably shorter than the average. However this is all a prediction from the doctors. The doctors told my parents I would be dead before the age of 11 and here I am 13 years later still going strong and doing what I want to do so I don't necessarily take what they say to heart all the time.

James Dean once said: "Dream as if you'll live forever... Live as if you'll die today..." - I have taken this as one of my mottos and I am very thankful for the life I have had so far, even if my childhood has been in and out of hospital and I have an illness.

I'm here for a good time, not a long time and that's all that counts.

[GuestHouse]

How do you pay for health insurance in the USA if you are one of the unemployed millions? Sounds like a case of "I'm alright Jack".

.

One minute you're b1tching about the USSR, the next about US liberal capitalism. Have you considered that is everything in your view is wrong you might look for the common denominator.

The truth is, the best soltion for economic planning is a mixed economy ( shock horror - the middle way).

Meanwhile have a go at rhinking where your views on piblic sector workers and their benefits came from ( Heavy hint - who gave them to you? )

[CrazyKid]

In comparison to majority of the people on this forum... I'm relatively young being 24 an' all... However I am not afraid to die.

I think having a lifetime illness has contributed to this and I have learnt to accept that some people live long lives and some people live short lives. However whether they're short or not, its up to you to make the best of what you got!

Obviously with my chronic kidney disease, there will inevitably one day when I have to go on dialysis and my life span has been predicted to be considerably shorter than the average. However this is all a prediction from the doctors. The doctors told my parents I would be dead before the age of 11 and here I am 13 years later still going strong and doing what I want to do so I don't necessarily take what they say to heart all the time.

James Dean once said: "Dream as if you'll live forever... Live as if you'll die today..." - I have taken this as one of my mottos and I am very thankful for the life I have had so far, even if my childhood has been in and out of hospital and I have an illness.

I'm here for a good time, not a long time and that's all that counts.

You get one atta girl. (Thats a gold star) Great thinking

[giddyup]

How do you pay for health insurance in the USA if you are one of the unemployed millions? Sounds like a case of "I'm alright Jack".

.

One minute you're b1tching about the USSR, the next about US liberal capitalism. Have you considered that is everything in your view is wrong you might look for the common denominator.

The truth is, the best soltion for economic planning is a mixed economy ( shock horror - the middle way).

Meanwhile have a go at rhinking where your views on piblic sector workers and their benefits came from ( Heavy hint - who gave them to you? )

Are you actually responding to my post? Nowhere was I "bitching" about anything. I commented in response to a previous post who suggested that the private sector were "money grubbing" and the poster who said that all those who don't have private health insurance deserve what they get. Maybe read what I was responding to instead of going off half-cocked. You also might have a go at reading your own posts and editing out all the bad spelling.

Edited July 7, 2012 by giddyup