Chavalit: Govt Restraint, Court Prudence Needed

[nurofiend]

So the Pheu Thai Party is sending conflicting messages... as I posted.

.

Wrong again I'm afraid.The PTP position on the matter is perfectly clear.Of course within PTP there are individuals who hold different views just as there are in the Democrat party, but the official line is " no change".

That's one of the longest oxymorons I've ever read!

+1

-2

he's saying ptp's official line on the matter is perfectly clear, and it is, just not to ye guys.

having some people in the party who look at it a different way, doesn't make the official line unclear and it certainly doesn't make what he said an oxymoron...

[Thaddeus]

he's saying ptp's official line on the matter is perfectly clear, and it is, just not to ye guys.

having some people in the party who look at it a different way, doesn't make the official line unclear and it certainly doesn't make what he said an oxymoron...

Yes, of course, that is what we need, rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty.

[nurofiend]

he's saying ptp's official line on the matter is perfectly clear, and it is, just not to ye guys.

having some people in the party who look at it a different way, doesn't make the official line unclear and it certainly doesn't make what he said an oxymoron...

Yes, of course, that is what we need, rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty.

what's the doubt?

doubt that what they say as a party isn't true? it's fine for people to have that doubt, but it just means it doesn't make a difference who says what within the party if you are not going to believe what they say as a party anyway.

people don't believe this because it's ptp, if everyone said the same thing they still wouldn't believe it, so what's the difference...

i think it's a good thing that people within parties have their individual views don't you?

it would be scary if they didn't.

[Thaddeus]

he's saying ptp's official line on the matter is perfectly clear, and it is, just not to ye guys.

having some people in the party who look at it a different way, doesn't make the official line unclear and it certainly doesn't make what he said an oxymoron...

Yes, of course, that is what we need, rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty.

what's the doubt?

The first one that springs to mind is the credibility of any Thai politician.

[Yunla]

You seem to have missed off a bit of information about this "UDD and Thaksin ally"

http://asiancorrespo...rdpoum-chaidee/

The trouble with one-line responses, and even more so with cute one-word responses like Tlansford's, is that they are not saying anything very much.

I wasn't writing Chaidee's full biography. I was addressing the earlier false statement that 'PTP redmob are pro-democracy, pro-monarchy and even pro-LM'. That is clearly a lie and I put forward the fact that current redmob leadership and PTP members, as well as their longtime colleague Chaidee, spent months in Communist intensive brainwashing camps in Vietnam, as well as years in Thai Communist party. The fact that some of them now claim to be reformed actually fits entirely with the covert 'stealth revolution' training they recieved.

The subject of him being arrested at government house, a data-rich location for any budding revolutionary, or associating with other communists (of which PAD has plenty), does not change the fact that he is a revolutionary communist, true communists do not see differences outside of 'the people versus the ruling elites' and will work with any people in order to bring about revolution.

Chaidee served as member of parliament under Thaksin’s Thai Rak Thai, and has written for the UDD magazine and has associated with the UDD leadership long time including their happy-memory holidays together in Vietnamese communist brainwashing camps. How is my statement that Chaidee the revolutionary communist is longterm ally of Thaksin and UDD not infact accurate?

My point is that ; how can UDD/PTP be pro-monarchy and even pro-LM (as was falsely stated earlier in this thread), and pro-democracy, when UDD have had communist Lenin articles in their official magazine, have red demagogic face posters everywhere they go, agrarian populism speeches, 'burn the capital' speeches, Thaksin has several hardcore communists as UDD leadership and PTP members, and they talk about death to the elites, all of which which is pure naked Maoism. You can not be a communist and a monarchist, the two are mutually exclusive.

The issue of PAD communist members is not relevant to the subject of PTP changing the constitution along carte-blanche lines, because DP are not in power today and they are not proposing radical constitution reform bills, and if they were I would say 'they have communist members' as a warning too.

I am a pro-monarchist parliamentary democrat, I have the utmost respect for the ancient Thai higher structure, and would like to see democratic constitutional-monarchy remain permanently, except for the state's political system to be cleaned up for everyones' benefit.

Tlansfords one-word cute reply speaks volumes about the red response to this subject, it is the same sort of reply Yingluck uses for almost everything since she took office. It is so much easier than writing long responses about the facts.

Edited July 9, 2012 by Yunla

[Moruya]

-2

he's saying ptp's official line on the matter is perfectly clear, and it is, just not to ye guys.

having some people in the party who look at it a different way, doesn't make the official line unclear and it certainly doesn't make what he said an oxymoron...

PTP speaks with many tongues.

Noise to signal ratio high.

Message unclear.

Full stop

[Moruya]

he's saying ptp's official line on the matter is perfectly clear, and it is, just not to ye guys.

having some people in the party who look at it a different way, doesn't make the official line unclear and it certainly doesn't make what he said an oxymoron...

Yes, of course, that is what we need, rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty.

what's the doubt?

doubt that what they say as a party isn't true? it's fine for people to have that doubt, but it just means it doesn't make a difference who says what within the party if you are not going to believe what they say as a party anyway.

people don't believe this because it's ptp, if everyone said the same thing they still wouldn't believe it, so what's the difference...

i think it's a good thing that people within parties have their individual views don't you?

it would be scary if they didn't.

Where, in their manifesto, does it say this?

[Orac]

You seem to have missed off a bit of information about this "UDD and Thaksin ally"

http://asiancorrespo...rdpoum-chaidee/

The trouble with one-line responses, and even more so with cute one-word responses like Tlansford's, is that they are not saying anything very much.

I wasn't writing Chaidee's full biography. I was addressing the earlier false statement that 'PTP redmob are pro-democracy, pro-monarchy and even pro-LM'. That is clearly a lie and I put forward the fact that current redmob leadership and PTP members, as well as their longtime colleague Chaidee, spent months in Communist intensive brainwashing camps in Vietnam, as well as years in Thai Communist party. The fact that some of them now claim to be reformed actually fits entirely with the covert 'stealth revolution' training they recieved.

The subject of him being arrested at government house, a data-rich location for any budding revolutionary, or associating with other communists (of which PAD has plenty), does not change the fact that he is a revolutionary communist, true communists do not see differences outside of 'the people versus the ruling elites' and will work with any people in order to bring about revolution.

Chaidee served as member of parliament under Thaksin’s Thai Rak Thai, and has written for the UDD magazine and has associated with the UDD leadership long time including their happy-memory holidays together in Vietnamese communist brainwashing camps. How is my statement that Chaidee the revolutionary communist is longterm ally of Thaksin and UDD not infact accurate?

My point is that ; how can UDD/PTP be pro-monarchy and even pro-LM (as was falsely stated earlier in this thread), and pro-democracy, when UDD have had communist Lenin articles in their official magazine, have red demagogic face posters everywhere they go, agrarian populism speeches, 'burn the capital' speeches, Thaksin has several hardcore communists as UDD leadership and PTP members, and they talk about death to the elites, all of which which is pure naked Maoism. You can not be a communist and a monarchist, the two are mutually exclusive.

The issue of PAD communist members is not relevant to the subject of PTP changing the constitution along carte-blanche lines, because DP are not in power today and they are not proposing radical constitution reform bills, and if they were I would say 'they have communist members' as a warning too.

I am a pro-monarchist parliamentary democrat, I have the utmost respect for the ancient Thai higher structure, and would like to see democratic constitutional-monarchy remain permanently, except for the state's political system to be cleaned up for everyones' benefit.

Tlansfords one-word cute reply speaks volumes about the red response to this subject, it is the same sort of reply Yingluck uses for almost everything since she took office. It is so much easier than writing long responses about the facts.

My apologise if I have not been verbose enough for you in my one line response however the link I provided goes into plenty more detail about the character you have introduced to this thread.

You can waffle on about UDD/Thaksin links to communism as much as you like but it is a bit disingenuous of you to go to great lengths to use Therdpoum Chaidee as your example, stating he is a UDD and Thaksin ally, without mentioning that he is actually a leader of PAD, not just a 'member' as you try to play down above, and also a party executive of the New Politics Party.

[Yunla]

My apologise if I have not been verbose enough for you in my one line response however the link I provided goes into plenty more detail about the character you have introduced to this thread.

You can waffle on about UDD/Thaksin links to communism as much as you like but it is a bit disingenuous of you to go to great lengths to use Therdpoum Chaidee as your example, stating he is a UDD and Thaksin ally, without mentioning that he is actually a leader of PAD, not just a 'member' as you try to play down above, and also a party executive of the New Politics Party.

Its not about being verbose, it is about one line and one word response are so easy to make, as a criticism, without addressing the point of the original poster.

It is not disingenuous at all. I merely state in my first post, as part of a long list of UDD PTP communist tendencies, that Thaksin's former party had at least one serious revolutionary communist in it, who also went to training camps with UDD members. I stated in my last post that for a communist, removal of all state apparatus except for Party executives, is the ONLY game in town. Chaidee does not only work within PAD and UDD, he is willing to work with any communist in Thailand, to bring about revolution. Existing party boundaries are not even recognised in communism, they have only one Chairman and getting him and the Party into power is the only agenda, and working temporarily with other groups especially contra groups, is entirely acceptable to a revolutionary communist.

Once again. You chose to reply to my first post, with a one line reply (and a link I have seen before) pointing out he was in PAD too. But that did not address ANY of the things in my post you responded to. I was talking about PTP UDD being entirely not pro-LM or pro-monarchy, and why that is enough reason to not let them rewrite the constitution.

That is why I raised your one-line response, because it had used my whole post as a block text reference without actually mentioning a single thing in the whole post, except that Chaidee is involved in PAD too. This then led to the truly sad one-word response which is even worse.

I don't care at all if you write long or short posts, so I don't care at all if you "are verbose enough" to use your phrase, but when you choose to open-up a post of mine and address it to me with the whole post quoted in block text and you ignore 99.9% of the post and just criticise one minor point, that the communist in question has involvement in other groups, does not actually change anything at all that I originally said. My post was ontopic, I think PTP constitutional change is extremely bad when the PTP party have communist revolutionary membership and a long history of communist propaganda and revolutionary action.

That was my point, you quote it but did not respond to any of it, except to add a one-line biography and a link I've already read before, which is not relevent to the subject of PTP and their anti-monarchist membership which was my actual point of posting.

Edited July 10, 2012 by Yunla

[Thai at Heart]

My apologise if I have not been verbose enough for you in my one line response however the link I provided goes into plenty more detail about the character you have introduced to this thread.

You can waffle on about UDD/Thaksin links to communism as much as you like but it is a bit disingenuous of you to go to great lengths to use Therdpoum Chaidee as your example, stating he is a UDD and Thaksin ally, without mentioning that he is actually a leader of PAD, not just a 'member' as you try to play down above, and also a party executive of the New Politics Party.

Its not about being verbose, it is about one line and one word response are so easy to make, as a criticism, without addressing the point of the original poster.

It is not disingenious at all. I merely state in my first post, as part of a long list of UDD PTP communist tendencies, that Thaksin's former party had at least one serious revolutionary communist in it, who also went to training camps with UDD members. I stated in my last post that for a communist, removal of all state apparatus except for Party executives, is the ONLY game in town. Chaidee does not only work within PAD and UDD, he is willing to work with any communist in Thailand, to bring about revolution. Existing party boundaries are not even recognised in communism, they have only one Chairman and getting him and the Party into power is the only agenda, and working temporarily with other groups especially contra groups, is entirely acceptable to a revolutionary communist.

Once again. You chose to reply to my first post, with a one line reply (and a link I have seen before) pointing out he was in PAD too. But that did not address ANY of the things in my post you responded to. I was talking about PTP UDD being entirely not pro-LM or pro-monarchy, and why that is enough reason to not let them rewrite the constitution.

That is why I raised your one-line response, because it had used my whole post as a block text reference without actually mentioning a single thing in the whole post, except that Chaidee is involved in PAD too. This then led to the truly sad one-word response which is even worse.

I don't care at all if you write long or short posts, so I don't care at all if you "are verbose enough" to use your words, but if you open up a post of mine and address it to me with the whole post quoted in block text and you ignore 99.9% of the post and just criticise one minor point, that the communist in question has involvement iin other groups, does not actually change annything at all that I originally said. My post was ontopic, I think PTP constitutional change is extremely bad when the PTP party have communist revolutionary membership and a long history of communist propaganda and revolutionary action.

That was my point, you quote it but did not respond to any of it, except to add a one-line biography and a link I've already read before, which is not relevent to the subject of PTP and their anti-monarchist membership which was my actual point of posting.

The problem with all of your statements, is that they apparently have the right to change the constitution irrespective of the political leanings of their affiliated or official members. On the one hand there is a constitution governing the rules and regs by which the country runs, and on the other you say that certain types of political views are to be discounted because some don't like them. This is no more relevant than a left of centre politician saying that the Democrats poltical views are to be absolutely discounted because as the longest created political party they have been blatently pro business to the detriment of the farmer and have contributed massively to a very inequitable society.

If the shoe was on the other foot, and we were in China, many would be bemoaning the lack of democracy in the country, not allowing other views to the table within the political system in China. We would be complaining that the courts in China always support the Communist party over the little guy, human rights, corruption, bla bla bla.

I for one believe the odds that PTP modifying the constitution will lead to some kind of communist overthrow of the system or uprising to be extremely unlikely, in effect zero. Changing the constitution in that manner would be overrun in minutes since the army would without doubt come out and "reset' the system and this time, they would have I believe an overwhelming amount of support in all parts of the country.

In fact, the better way is for it to be dealt with in parliament, in the public domain in a correct and legal manner, than for the courts to intervene prematurely, stoking even more accusations that the elite once more have stomped on democratic change.

It is a complicated problem because of the idea that if you aren't 100% in support of the current system you somehow want to overthrow it. It is possible to be 99.5% in support but wish for a change, for example in the LM laws. It has been brought to a point of absolutes which has happened in politics in other parts of the world over such emotive issues as abortion for example. Looking at things like this as an absolute ends with absurdity as in the situation with uncle SMS, which in the end causes more damage to the institution that benefit.

Creating a Minority Report type of judicial activism creates far more problems in the long run.

Edited July 10, 2012 by Thai at Heart

[Yunla]

The problem with all of your statements, is that they apparently have the right to change the constitution irrespective of the political leanings of their affiliated or official members. On the one hand there is a constitution governing the rules and regs by which the country runs, and on the other you say that certain types of political views are to be discounted because some don't like them. This is no more relevant than a left of centre politician saying that the Democrats poltical views are to be absolutely discounted because as the longest created political party they have been blatently pro business to the detriment of the farmer and have contributed massively to a very inequitable society.

If the shoe was on the other foot, and we were in China, many would be bemoaning the lack of democracy in the country, not allowing other views to the table within the political system in China. We would be complaining that the courts in China always support the Communist party over the little guy, human rights, corruption, bla bla bla.

I for one believe the odds that PTP modifying the constitution will lead to some kind of communist overthrow of the system or uprising to be extremely unlikely, in effect zero. Changing the constitution in that manner would be overrun in minutes since the army would without doubt come out and "reset' the system and this time, they would have I believe an overwhelming amount of support in all parts of the country.

In fact, the better way is for it to be dealt with in parliament, in the public domain in a correct and legal manner, than for the courts to intervene prematurely, stoking even more accusations that the elite once more have stomped on democratic change.

It is a complicated problem because of the idea that if you aren't 100% in support of the current system you somehow want to overthrow it. It is possible to be 99.5% in support but wish for a change, for example in the LM laws. It has been brought to a point of absolutes which has happened in politics in other parts of the world over such emotive issues as abortion for example. Looking at things like this as an absolute ends with absurdity as in the situation with uncle SMS, which in the end causes more damage to the institution that benefit.

Creating a Minority Report type of judicial activism creates far more problems in the long run.

I agree with much of what you say. I also support banning of frivolous LM use. However I believe LM is a good thing when used correctly, and it defends a truly ancient and noble institution.

I agree with you that nothing should be set in stone, but that changing the constitution is not like changing the drapes. It should begin with a slow process of debate in parliament, with the PM Yingluck present in parliament throughout all important debates, the PM having read the bills in question, the PM defending the bills in unscripted Q&A debates, and then seriously long time drawn-out debate with the Opposition. It should not go anywhere beyond parliament until it has been debated to death.

Bills and amendments that are incendiary and have the potential to turn a peaceful nation into a warzone, should be treated as such. PTP have tried to rush these bills through ASAP, they have ignored the Opposition's call for debates and for the PM to start attending parliamentary discussions, PTP admitted not even reading them, and threatening opposing judges in the process.

This is not correct set and setting for a serious discussion on constitution. Debate, for which the PM is present and active, all the contentious points are defended by the proponents who will listen to the criticisms put to them, that is stage one of reform. It should take over a year if the bill and amendment is controversial dynamite. Ultimately, a democratic government's first and main job is to secure the safety of their citizens, to not introduce anything into the system that can lead to bloodshed or anarchy. For that reason, long drawn out debate, referendum, Opposition consensus, are precursors to even beginning any judicial process. This is a political initiative, and yet the PTP are not in parliament to discuss it. That means the whole process stops there. Debate is stage one. We still haven't had that, much less referendum or consensus, which are essential before taking any further steps into the law.

I would point out that the PTP rice-mortgaging scheme is entirely to the "detriment of the farmer" (your phrase) longterm, with only benefit to corrupt middle men no doubt including PTP allies. It is only one example of how PTP have in their first year jammed on the brakes and stalled any serious reforms for the poor, reforms that Abhisit had implemented by investment and by bill.

Re; China and complaining about human rights etc., in Bangkok the ruling Party are recently handing out home-addresses of dissenters to angry mobs, for intimidation and possibly worse. This is not on a par with China of course, but it is serious human-rights violation nonetheless and it is targeting innocent taxpaying citizens just because they disagree with the PTP government, so it is, to my reader's eyes, a deadly serious portent.

I have argued before that PTP are not just being 'slow out of the gate' policy-wise with their one whole year of entirely feeble reform policies and Olympic-grade parliamentary absenteeism, but are actually holding back rural poverty and rural education reform even further, and I have contended this is entirely intentional along Maos "poor and blank followers" theory.

I have also said before that there will not and can not be another overtly Maoist communist revolution anywhere in SEA. However that does not change the facts that PTP exhibit serious maoist beliefs and practices, and that maoism involves an utter destruction of all ruling elites. Obviously this is not a pro-monarchy philosophy by UDD or PTP either. That was my point. A far more likely in my view PTP outcome (if they have their way) is an eventual sham-republic, corporatocratic dictatorship, with elements of maoist agrarian brainwashing oiling the wheels as is currently evident in redmob stage speeches etc. Not this year or next year but ultimately I consider this their goal, and for that reason I totally oppose them being allowed to monkey-around with Thailand's constitution.

Edited July 10, 2012 by Yunla

[tlansford]

You seem to have missed off a bit of information about this "UDD and Thaksin ally"

http://asiancorrespo...rdpoum-chaidee/

The trouble with one-line responses, and even more so with cute one-word responses like Tlansford's, is that they are not saying anything very much.

I wasn't writing Chaidee's full biography. I was addressing the earlier false statement that 'PTP redmob are pro-democracy, pro-monarchy and even pro-LM'. That is clearly a lie and I put forward the fact that current redmob leadership and PTP members, as well as their longtime colleague Chaidee, spent months in Communist intensive brainwashing camps in Vietnam, as well as years in Thai Communist party. The fact that some of them now claim to be reformed actually fits entirely with the covert 'stealth revolution' training they recieved.

The subject of him being arrested at government house, a data-rich location for any budding revolutionary, or associating with other communists (of which PAD has plenty), does not change the fact that he is a revolutionary communist, true communists do not see differences outside of 'the people versus the ruling elites' and will work with any people in order to bring about revolution.

Chaidee served as member of parliament under Thaksin’s Thai Rak Thai, and has written for the UDD magazine and has associated with the UDD leadership long time including their happy-memory holidays together in Vietnamese communist brainwashing camps. How is my statement that Chaidee the revolutionary communist is longterm ally of Thaksin and UDD not infact accurate?

My point is that ; how can UDD/PTP be pro-monarchy and even pro-LM (as was falsely stated earlier in this thread), and pro-democracy, when UDD have had communist Lenin articles in their official magazine, have red demagogic face posters everywhere they go, agrarian populism speeches, 'burn the capital' speeches, Thaksin has several hardcore communists as UDD leadership and PTP members, and they talk about death to the elites, all of which which is pure naked Maoism. You can not be a communist and a monarchist, the two are mutually exclusive.

The issue of PAD communist members is not relevant to the subject of PTP changing the constitution along carte-blanche lines, because DP are not in power today and they are not proposing radical constitution reform bills, and if they were I would say 'they have communist members' as a warning too.

I am a pro-monarchist parliamentary democrat, I have the utmost respect for the ancient Thai higher structure, and would like to see democratic constitutional-monarchy remain permanently, except for the state's political system to be cleaned up for everyones' benefit.

Tlansfords one-word cute reply speaks volumes about the red response to this subject, it is the same sort of reply Yingluck uses for almost everything since she took office. It is so much easier than writing long responses about the facts.

My apologise if I have not been verbose enough for you in my one line response however the link I provided goes into plenty more detail about the character you have introduced to this thread.

You can waffle on about UDD/Thaksin links to communism as much as you like but it is a bit disingenuous of you to go to great lengths to use Therdpoum Chaidee as your example, stating he is a UDD and Thaksin ally, without mentioning that he is actually a leader of PAD, not just a 'member' as you try to play down above, and also a party executive of the New Politics Party.

like I said, "ooops"

[Yunla]

like I said, "ooops"

Are you Yingluck's official speechwriter?

[tlansford]

like I said, "ooops"

Are you Yingluck's official speechwriter?

Sorry, Yunla. You go on about this UDD-Mao link in nearly every(other) post, then quote what a member of the "UDD" said when that person is actually a PAD leader...

If I were you, I'd say "oops, missed that one..."

[smutcakes]

Well, the nub of this issue, is, is any government allowed to modify lese majeste, without it being accused of being a threat to the monarchy?

Of course, rather incongruously, we aren't supposed to even say so, so maybe we can just think about whether it can be reformed..................

My interests as an impartial visitor to Thailand, when regarding the state is my sincere wish to see it remain and progress forwards in a peaceful prosperous manner, as a 'parliamentary democracy constitutional monarchy', to not be upturned or subverted, to be strengthened and improved for the benefit of the entire populace, and most critically of all, to not become a criminal dictatorship as we are now sadly seeing under Shinawatra and their thugs.

Lol dont be ridiculous. It is fairly obvious you have never even been to Thailand and just read and regurgitate what some others say. Either that or you are the most myopic one eyed person ever.

[Yunla]

Sorry, Yunla. You go on about this UDD-Mao link in nearly every(other) post, then quote what a member of the "UDD" said when that person is actually a PAD leader...

If I were you, I'd say "oops, missed that one..."

What you said just now,

"then quote what a member of the "UDD" said"

What I actually said ;

"Therdpoum Chaidee, a former communist and longtime colleague of current UDD protest leaders, as well as a member of parliament under Thaksin’s now defunct Thai Rak Thai party."

So Re; "oops missed that one" indeed applies to you Tlansford, I did not miss anything, but you most certainly did. I never said he was a UDD member. I said he was a long time ally of Thaksin (fact) and of UDD members (fact). He went to communist training camps with members of the current UDD leadership many years ago. He was in parliament under Thaksin's TRT. That is what I said. I never said he was UDD.

Edited July 10, 2012 by Yunla

[Yunla]

Lol dont be ridiculous. It is fairly obvious you have never even been to Thailand and just read and regurgitate what some others say. Either that or you are the most myopic one eyed person ever.

I'm posting from the condo I own in Bangkok citycentre in Thailand right now, and have done since I first visited this forum earlier this year. I bought this condo in the 1980s. have also been visiting Thailand since 1973. Thankyou for your concern and very interesting contribution though. I feel enriched by your wise words.

Edited July 10, 2012 by Yunla

[smutcakes]

Sorry, Yunla. You go on about this UDD-Mao link in nearly every(other) post, then quote what a member of the "UDD" said when that person is actually a PAD leader...

If I were you, I'd say "oops, missed that one..."

What you said just now,

"then quote what a member of the "UDD" said"

What I actually said ;

"Therdpoum Chaidee, a former communist and longtime colleague of current UDD protest leaders, as well as a member of parliament under Thaksin’s now defunct Thai Rak Thai party."

So Re; "oops missed that one" indeed applies to you Tlansford, I did not miss anything, but you most certainly did. I never said he was a UDD member. I said he was a long time ally of Thaksin (fact) and of UDD members (fact). He went to communist training camps with members of the current UDD leadership many years ago. He was in parliament under Thaksin's TRT. That is what I said. I never said he was UDD.

Dont be absurd! Communist training camps, what in the world are you talking about?

[smutcakes]

Lol dont be ridiculous. It is fairly obvious you have never even been to Thailand and just read and regurgitate what some others say. Either that or you are the most myopic one eyed person ever.

I'm posting from the condo I own in Bangkok citycentre in Thailand right now, and have done since I first visited this forum earlier this year. I bought this condo in the 1980s. have also been visiting Thailand since 1973. Thankyou for your concern and very interesting contribution though. I feel enriched by your wise words.

You do know you can search prior posts? I am pretty sure a few weeks ago you wrote that you did not and had not lived here, and you were saving your social security to retire here? apologies if this was not you.

[Yunla]

You do know you can search prior posts? I am pretty sure a few weeks ago you wrote that you did not and had not lived here, and you were saving your social security to retire here? apologies if this was not you.

Yes you can start apologising. I am resident in UK. Own houses in two European countries and own condo here. Am here a lot, on short term visas for sunshine and seeing my Thai friends.

Sunshine for my terminal multiple sclerosis which has in addition to making me lose the use of both my legs, made me 80% blind in both eyes, so nice touch with the myopic comment too.

Edited July 10, 2012 by Yunla

[smutcakes]

Lol dont be ridiculous. It is fairly obvious you have never even been to Thailand and just read and regurgitate what some others say. Either that or you are the most myopic one eyed person ever.

I'm posting from the condo I own in Bangkok citycentre in Thailand right now, and have done since I first visited this forum earlier this year. I bought this condo in the 1980s. have also been visiting Thailand since 1973. Thankyou for your concern and very interesting contribution though. I feel enriched by your wise words.

You do know you can search prior posts? I am pretty sure a few weeks ago you wrote that you did not and had not lived here, and you were saving your social security to retire here? apologies if this was not you.

Yes you can start apologising. I am resident in UK. Own houses in two European countries and own condo here. Am here a lot, on short term visas for sunshine and seeing my friends.

Sunshine for my terminal multiple sclerosis which has in addition to making me lose the use of both my legs, made me 80% blind in both eyes, so nice touch with the myopic comment too.

Seems like i touched a nerve......................

[Yunla]

Dont be absurd! Communist training camps, what in the world are you talking about?

From my earlier original post which I'm sure you read before you then went on to attack all my posts as being myopic etc.;

http://www.atimes.co...a/LE13Ae01.html

"His five-year odyssey with the Communist Party of Thailand (CPT) included a three-month period in Hanoi in the heady period following the unification of Vietnam under communist rule. There, Therdpoum and a handful of hand-picked Thai activists, like prominent student leader Seksan Prasertkun, as well as current UDD leaders Weng Tochirakan and Jaran Dittapichai, were drilled in Maoist revolutionary theory. "

Edited July 10, 2012 by Yunla

[smutcakes]

Dont be absurd! Communist training camps, what in the world are you talking about?

From my earlier original post which I'm sure you read before you then attacked all my posts as being myopic etc.;

http://www.atimes.co...a/LE13Ae01.html

"His five-year odyssey with the Communist Party of Thailand (CPT) included a three-month period in Hanoi in the heady period following the unification of Vietnam under communist rule. There, Therdpoum and a handful of hand-picked Thai activists, like prominent student leader Seksan Prasertkun, as well as current UDD leaders Weng Tochirakan and Jaran Dittapichai, were drilled in Maoist revolutionary theory. "

Is that an article from the Sonthi owned Asia Times?

Regardless, as a fully developed and functioning grown man, (i presume) are you really suggesting a 3 month 'Communist Training Camp' is anything other than complete rubbish?

[Moruya]

Yes you can start apologising. I am resident in UK. Own houses in two European countries and own condo here. Am here a lot, on short term visas for sunshine and seeing my friends.

Sunshine for my terminal multiple sclerosis which has in addition to making me lose the use of both my legs, made me 80% blind in both eyes, so nice touch with the myopic comment too.

Seems like i touched a nerve......................

You're obviously quite a sensitive guy

Well done.

[tlansford]

Sorry, Yunla. You go on about this UDD-Mao link in nearly every(other) post, then quote what a member of the "UDD" said when that person is actually a PAD leader...

If I were you, I'd say "oops, missed that one..."

What you said just now,

"then quote what a member of the "UDD" said"

What I actually said ;

"Therdpoum Chaidee, a former communist and longtime colleague of current UDD protest leaders, as well as a member of parliament under Thaksin’s now defunct Thai Rak Thai party."

So Re; "oops missed that one" indeed applies to you Tlansford, I did not miss anything, but you most certainly did. I never said he was a UDD member. I said he was a long time ally of Thaksin (fact) and of UDD members (fact). He went to communist training camps with members of the current UDD leadership many years ago. He was in parliament under Thaksin's TRT. That is what I said. I never said he was UDD.

Whatever Yunla - I read this :

And my personal favourite from your 'not-communist-at-all' UDD and Thaksin ally; "Old communists know that when it comes to revolution, ignorance is much more powerful than knowledge." http://www.atimes.co...a/LE13Ae01.html

adios

[philw]

Responding to post #81

Careful, there are several exposed.

Thailand as the next communist country in SE Asia and my mother is either the pope or or an imam.....

Thaksin and the other lot are business people and the objective, for all sides, is enrichment, good old fashioned personal gain.

But, for the sake of discussion, would it be so bad for Thailand to become something modeled on the lines of Laos or Vietnam ??

If that is what the people wanted ?

[rubl]

But, for the sake of discussion, would it be so bad for Thailand to become something modeled on the lines of Laos or Vietnam ??

If that is what the people wanted ?

We the (red-shirt) people have conducted a poll on people's preferences and are very happy and even proud to be able to release to you the results. To simplify both procedure and result formulation we did a completely in-house poll to not only ensure a proper result, but also to ensure no significant bother and/or effect on people's normal activities. With confidence we can tell that with a 99.98% confirmation that this is what the people want (if we had put the question to them personally). From this result it is clear why we proposed to change the official country name into "The people's democratic ... ... ...

Furthermore with the overwhelming majority our on-site poll results show we can only conclude that anyone against this must be an enemy of the state who will be dealt with in a manner recommended for the deluded.

Hail Thaksin!

[Yunla]

Whatever Yunla - I read this :

And my personal favourite from your 'not-communist-at-all' UDD and Thaksin ally; "Old communists know that when it comes to revolution, ignorance is much more powerful than knowledge." http://www.atimes.co...a/LE13Ae01.html

adios

Yes, you provide another quote which backs my assertion, another quote that says he was a UDD and Thaksin ally. And not that he was UDD. So once again you prove that you were wrong.

I'm sorry to make you come down to tedious things like"reality" and "facts", but it is my nature. I know you prefer daydreaming and misquoting.

Sawadee.

Edited July 10, 2012 by Yunla

[tlansford]

Whatever Yunla - I read this :

And my personal favourite from your 'not-communist-at-all' UDD and Thaksin ally; "Old communists know that when it comes to revolution, ignorance is much more powerful than knowledge." http://www.atimes.co...a/LE13Ae01.html

adios

Yes, you provide another quote which backs my assertion, another quote that says he was a UDD and Thaksin ally. And not that he was UDD. So once again you prove that you were wrong.

I'm sorry to make you come down to tedious things like"reality" and "facts", but it is my nature. I know you prefer daydreaming and misquoting.

Sawadee.

nice try - there is no past tense in your original statement, nor is it clarified in the link you provided. The clear implication is that an avowed communist ally of thaksin and the udd made that quote when in fact the person is a PAD leader and was a PAD leader at the time that he made that quote.

Squirm all you want. It doesn't matter, anyway.

[Yunla]

Whatever Yunla - I read this :

And my personal favourite from your 'not-communist-at-all' UDD and Thaksin ally; "Old communists know that when it comes to revolution, ignorance is much more powerful than knowledge." http://www.atimes.co...a/LE13Ae01.html

adios

Yes, you provide another quote which backs my assertion, another quote that says he was a UDD and Thaksin ally. And not that he was UDD. So once again you prove that you were wrong.

I'm sorry to make you come down to tedious things like"reality" and "facts", but it is my nature. I know you prefer daydreaming and misquoting.

Sawadee.

nice try - there is no past tense in your original statement, nor is it clarified in the link you provided. The clear implication is that an avowed communist ally of thaksin and the udd made that quote when in fact the person is a PAD leader and was a PAD leader at the time that he made that quote.

Squirm all you want. It doesn't matter, anyway.

Well, you are the one who, three posts ago, rubbished all my writing based on your contention that I had said Chaidee "was UDD".

I had never said that. I said he had long-time UDD allies dating back to their shared experiences in communist brainwashing camps in Hanoi, and I had been told he contributed to early UDD magazine articles too. I never said he was a UDD member. Your claim that I had said he is a UDD member is a falsehood.

I have just proved that your claim is false. I am wondering if, now that your false allegation has been disproved, you would care to comment on the actual subject of my ontopic post that you originally mocked with your false claim. I had been talking about UDD PTP being anti-LM and anti-monarchist, btw.

Or if you want to return to your "oops I did it again" Britney Spears impressions and misquoting me, then go right ahead. I have an old schooldress you can borrow.

Edited July 11, 2012 by Yunla