Is $Us2 Million Enough To Retire In Thailand, At Age 40?

[samsiam]

For normal people, yes, as long as you don't do anything too stupid. Not enough for the 1 percenters who I'm sure will be showing up shortly to explain how how it's not enough to cover even the basic necessities.

I think if you had that kind of money you would be smart enough to answer that question for yourself!

That said, I'll entertain you!

Buy a small apartment building in a major city in your home country (I'm talking 4 or so apartments). The rent roll on a $2 million building will give you around $8,000/month. Hire a building management company to run things for you (they generally take 15% of the rent roll and handle everything related to payment collection, finding tenants, etc.). That should give you steady net income of around $5,000/month ($60,000/year).

Property in a major city generally appreciates at around 6%/year. You can sell anytime and recover your initial principle + any compounded return on the asset.

However, this is clearly a fantasy on your part. I say this because no serious individual with assets in the 7 figures would be soliciting financial advice from a forum. They would be consulting with their accountant or financial advisor.

You sir are a charlatan!

Bullcrap.

It could well be for real.

The guy is 40yo and in the age bracket that he could have lost parents or any such thing....and an inheritance or business sale, or property sale etc.

You do not have to be an Einstein to fall by such funds.

I never go to these expert financial advisers....they are working 9 to 5 right ??...ask how much they are worth and to prove it and how they got it, then listen to them if they are wealthy.....accountant....just for tax issues and setup advice of holding facilities etc......many are not wealthy to warrant advice from.

But certainly invest it for some growth to keep up with inflation at least one way or another.....otherwise it will be worth 4/5th's of <deleted> all in 20 years let alone 40.....don't forget to factor in that you just might live till 99....

Again, I'm calling B.S!

Regardless of whether it is true or false; If he has ever been to Thailand, then he knows exactly how much things cost....

If he hasn't already been to Thailand, why the hell is he talking about moving to a place he has never visited????

Where's your common sense?!

Hogwash....visitors rarely know how much things cost.

He does not say he has never been here.

Don't be jealous...you might win lottery soon.

[ableguy]

If it became general knowledge that you had this kind of cash you wouldnt last two minutes here, find a safer country.

[Jingthing]

If it became general knowledge that you had this kind of cash you wouldnt last two minutes here, find a safer country.

So don't tell ...

[Naam]

Definitely enough, depending on your spending habits.

2,000,000 = 60,000,000 THB

5% interest per year = 3,000,000 THB a year (Is that your return after tax? remember you do need to pay tax to someone still).

3,000,000 THB a year = 250,000 THB a month

If you put at least 150,000 THB back into your investment to assist with countering inflation & slowly growing your investments etc, then you'll be fine. Which would leave you with 100,000 THB a month.

100,000 THB a month is a huge amount here. Depending on what you want to do of course.

If you want to be a tourist for the next 40 years, you might find it difficult. However if you're going to settle down, you'd do it easy.

If you settle down, have a wife and kids etc, then you might find it more challenging in a tourist area (Although 100,000 THB a month would be very comfortable there still I'm sure, even with a couple of kids). If you wanted to move to a non tourist area, you'd be living comfortably, even with half a dozen kids and a mia noi or two lol.

But as a couple of others have posted, I smell a troll when I see only 2 posts lol

" remember you do need to pay tax to someone still"

says WHO?

[Darrel]

Buy a small apartment building in a major city in your home country (I'm talking 4 or so apartments). The rent roll on a $2 million building will give you around $8,000/month. Hire a building management company to run things for you (they generally take 15% of the rent roll and handle everything related to payment collection, finding tenants, etc.). That should give you steady net income of around $5,000/month ($60,000/year).

But in most countries the local government would want to tax that sum, which might leave quite a lot less.

Sometimes there are better things to invest in than property in the country where you live or in the country from which you are from (unless you happen to be from the US, in which case the IRS will probably get you anyway regardless of where you are and what you invest in).

[hotandhumid]

Definitely enough, depending on your spending habits.

2,000,000 = 60,000,000 THB

5% interest per year = 3,000,000 THB a year (Is that your return after tax? remember you do need to pay tax to someone still).

3,000,000 THB a year = 250,000 THB a month

If you put at least 150,000 THB back into your investment to assist with countering inflation & slowly growing your investments etc, then you'll be fine. Which would leave you with 100,000 THB a month.

100,000 THB a month is a huge amount here. Depending on what you want to do of course.

If you want to be a tourist for the next 40 years, you might find it difficult. However if you're going to settle down, you'd do it easy.

If you settle down, have a wife and kids etc, then you might find it more challenging in a tourist area (Although 100,000 THB a month would be very comfortable there still I'm sure, even with a couple of kids). If you wanted to move to a non tourist area, you'd be living comfortably, even with half a dozen kids and a mia noi or two lol.

But as a couple of others have posted, I smell a troll when I see only 2 posts lol

Here we go again. 100k per month with a family in a decent area IS NOT I repeat is NOT enough money!

To the OP, if you are genuine you have come to the wrong place for this type of 'advice' most here live on 30k a month.

[hotandhumid]

If it became general knowledge that you had this kind of cash you wouldnt last two minutes here, find a safer country.

Would he be kidnapped then??

Edited July 10, 2012 by hotandhumid

[expatdreamer]

Not sure if this is of any help, but for what its worth, a similar question was asked on this forum a few years ago as to how much someone would need to retire, but at 50 not 40

35% of respondents thought you would need more than 40 million baht at age 50

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/66197-how-much-dosh-needed-to-retire-at-age-50/

You may wish to have a read - its a bit dated, but may be of general interest

Also there is another good early retirement forum which may also be of interest http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/

IMHO, its enough. I know you talk about $US2M, but an Oz resident could get 5% bank interest right now at zero risk on $2M (ie $100k per annum) and only have to pay 10% tax as a non resident for tax purposes if living in Thailand (ie end up with $90k per annum after tax). That's less tax than you would pay if you lived in Australia, and you could still live comfortably on that in Oz (let alone Thailand) even with the higher tax rate (most people in fact do, as the average wage is less than this).

[transam]

Send the 2 mil to me and l will test it out for you free of charge.

[IsaanUSA]

USD 2 milliom earning a guaranteed 5% (OP said 5%), you would have enough money to live in about 90% of the world. That's 100k USD a year. That is 3 times the median income for my city in the US. You could afford to have a small place in Manhattan even.

Anyways, I agree, the visa situation is an issue.

Where can I obtain a guaranteed 5% ROI? My investments are generating around 1% now.

OP said 5%, ask him

[GreenSnapper]

USD 2 milliom earning a guaranteed 5% (OP said 5%), you would have enough money to live in about 90% of the world. That's 100k USD a year. That is 3 times the median income for my city in the US. You could afford to have a small place in Manhattan even.

Anyways, I agree, the visa situation is an issue.

Where can I obtain a guaranteed 5% ROI? My investments are generating around 1% now.

OP said 5%, ask him

Since when is a savings account called "investments" ?

[givenall]

All bets are off if you have medical problem

It could cost you a bundle even in Thailand

Sent from my ST18a using Thaivisa Connect App

[samsiam]

All bets are off if you have medical problem

It could cost you a bundle even in Thailand

Sent from my ST18a using Thaivisa Connect App

Yes...if you have no insurance.....most people would not be that silly to skint on that, especially with that kind of income.

[scorecard]

For normal people, yes, as long as you don't do anything too stupid. Not enough for the 1 percenters who I'm sure will be showing up shortly to explain how how it's not enough to cover even the basic necessities.

Best wishes for a happy and pleasant retirement.

I recall a real story from about 15 years back - An acquaintenace from the west who had visited Thailand many times and the 'feature' of every trip was buying young ladies (sure you know what I mean).

He moved here to live when he retired at 50 with substantial savings and lump sum payout from his employer. He had lots of detailed budget plans and lots of plans to explore every corner of Thailand, explore the culture and to contribute to various charity activities, etc.

In his first year alone he spent over US$500,000-, splurging big money on meals and drinks and on buying young ladies almost every night of the week. He also quickly established a reputation for buying rounds of drinks for everybody in the bar at several venues in Bkk and in Pattaya, etc.

His friends tried numerous times to convince him to slow down, making the case that he needed to preserve his funds for the long-term. He didn't listen and in fact after a few years he started to approach friends for loans which he couldn't pay back and quickly his friends all avoided him.

He's been back in the US now for a number of years living off welfare and friends.

Edited July 11, 2012 by scorecard

[GreenSnapper]

In his first year alone he spent over US$500,000-, buying young ladies almost every night of the week.

So in one year, he shagged 365 hookers and payed 500K USD?

1369 USD per day? Or 41000 Baht?

Do I smell big BS here?

[jayjayjayjay]

Troll..... anyone so willing to flaunt there assets on such a stupid question will loose it to the first Thai hooker who gets here teeth into him...RIP troll

[MB1]

Two million ain't what it used to be. The OP is talking about living in Thailand, at least for awhile. It would be very intelligent to seek a range of advice before making your own decisions. Anyone, any time can pose as something they're not on the internet. So what? There was nothing really trollish about the PM's posts on this topic, and I find the accusations distasteful.

And I do agree with you Thread Master, $2 mill Us ain't what it used to be and neither by British standards, at todays rate of exchange around £1.3ish million UK pounds which if retiring at 40 and living for 30 years in Thailand or elsewhere would only give you around £840 per week but that £840 per week could turn into £500 per week, who knows what's going to happen with the exchange rates in the future, I remember getting 78/79 maybe even 80 baht to the pound a few years ago, now I get around the 48/49 mark.

I'd keep working for another ten years OP if earning good money to get your funds even higher, investments are an option, but then again who knows what's going to happen in the future.

As for the troll hunters comments on the thread, you may well be a troll OP, who knows as it's an internet forum, but some of us on the forum believe that not all people asking for advice are trolls.

Just as a note for UK expats and regular visitors/tourists, you could if able to buy a lottery ticket or get someone to buy it for you become a UK Euro lottery millionaire in the biggest Euro Millionaire raffle draw that takes place on the 27th July which is the opening ceromony of the London Olympics.

100 UK millionaires will be created, breaking the world record for creating the most millionaires in a single lottery draw.

100 newly created millionaire Brits lets loose in Thailand spending their winnings, now that should cheer a few Brit bashing TV posters up..Cheer a few bar girls up as well. .

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2149430/World-record-100-millionaires-created-EuroMillions-raffle-mark-Olympic-Games-opening-ceremony.html#ixzz20IRKk7cJ

[canuckoverseas]

The fact that a guy with $2M in the bank would come on here to ask advice if it is enough to live on in thailand demonstrates that he hasn't a clue, and should, for the sake of his own well-being and continued good fortune, stay in his current safe haven, wherever that may be.

FYI, look at what happened to the billionaire wife of tetra-pak empire in London, dead from overdose at age of 49. Lesson, money doesn't mean anything without a plan and a level head.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

Edited July 11, 2012 by canuckoverseas

[canuckoverseas]

In his first year alone he spent over US$500,000-, buying young ladies almost every night of the week.

So in one year, he shagged 365 hookers and payed 500K USD?

1369 USD per day? Or 41000 Baht?

Do I smell big BS here?

Who is to say he did only one at a time?

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

[transam]

In his first year alone he spent over US$500,000-, buying young ladies almost every night of the week.

So in one year, he shagged 365 hookers and payed 500K USD?

1369 USD per day? Or 41000 Baht?

Do I smell big BS here?

Who is to say he did only one at a time?

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

Indeed. At a hotel in CM, l noticed 3 beauties entering a room , sadly not mine.

[skippybangkok]

Troll..... anyone so willing to flaunt there assets on such a stupid question will loose it to the first Thai hooker who gets here teeth into him...RIP troll

Agreed....... a bit of a dick.

[fletchsmile]

There are loads of thread on this type of topic. A large factor among many is how much you expect your outgoings to be. My view has consistently been on USD2mio, answer = probably. But it's not as easy as you think. Simplifying previous posts:

THB 10mio on capital expenditure- condo/house/place to live + car

THB 45mio in investments, which earn 7%, 4% spent and 3% kept by for inflation

THB 5mio in cash

Total THB 60mio

Notes:

- Nice to have your own home and roof over your head, and fix your costs in THB to hedge currency risks

- THB 45mio @ 4% = THB 1.8mio = THB 150k a month

- THB 5mio in cash. This is just under 3 years outgoings, for emergencies + also as to generate a 7% return, you will likely have to take some investment risk. You therefore need money to cover you in bad years where you have negative returns. 7% is an average. You don't want to be taking from your investments in bad years where you will even possibly be negative, and is one reason investment portfolios fail long term. The THb 5mio reserve helps address "portfolio survival rate" risks and volatility in returns

- Also you don't touch your capital on the THB 45mio which gives some protection against living longer than expected. You may also have life changing events where you want to leave it to someone, eg kids

- Ball park, these are my views on numbers for wife + 2 kids. Kids schooling at an international school is expensive, so 150k month is by no means excessive. When I first arrived, working, nice expat package, I also used to go thru about THB 150k a month as a single guy excluding rent, but again it's a lifestyle choice. While taking time out and not working/ studying I could easily cut back on that to THB 40k - 50k including rent.

- These are after tax numbers. As say an American taxed on worldwide income, that is less easy to generate than say a Brit.

- These are all THB numbers. You're living in Thailand 40+ years so need to manage the FX risk

The above is way oversimplified and just the numbers.

Lastly: be extremely wary of people saying you can earn 5%, 6%, 7% long term without any risk or in a bank account. For some years this works. What happens is the exchange will go up and down as will interest rates. THB cash rates are around 3%. Anything else you have currency risk in addition to interest rate risk.

I recall people on TV saying you could live off GBP 150k @ 6%. GBP went from 75 to 50 and rates from 6% to say 2%. Result you can't live off it. You will frequently see people saying AUD cash rates are good and you can earn 6% and the currency is good. They will in likelihood follow the Brits, Europeans, etc at some time in the next 40 years. These things go in cycles. Within the next 40 years you need to budget for the possibility of AUD/USD falling to say 0.75 and rates falling to say 2-3%. Sure it will have ups as well, but it's the bad times that get you. It's a massive mistake to assume FX and interest rates will remain constant - averages possibly, actual no!

Edit: PS Best return on equity value is a vasectomy. Cost 15k. Pays for itself many times over

Edited July 11, 2012 by fletchsmile

[samsiam]

If I was 40 and single.....I would initially buy a small home or condo wherever I felt I would be comfortable spending the last few years if it got to that level, but rent it out, gets you a return plus capital gain....but gives some reassurance just in case.....invest the balance...then, I would just travel and spend months here and there.....would be a hoot with no ties and unecessary complicated rubbish to cart around forever.....I feel a mid life crisis coming on

[fletchsmile]

If I was 40 and single.....I would initially buy a small home or condo wherever I felt I would be comfortable spending the last few years if it got to that level, but rent it out, gets you a return plus capital gain....but gives some reassurance just in case.....invest the balance...then, I would just travel and spend months here and there.....would be a hoot with no ties and unecessary complicated rubbish to cart around forever.....I feel a mid life crisis coming on

By all accounts you could well have ended single the other day samsiam

Seriously though, one of the things about Thailand is that you can have a mid-life style crisis any time you want

[samsiam]

If I was 40 and single.....I would initially buy a small home or condo wherever I felt I would be comfortable spending the last few years if it got to that level, but rent it out, gets you a return plus capital gain....but gives some reassurance just in case.....invest the balance...then, I would just travel and spend months here and there.....would be a hoot with no ties and unecessary complicated rubbish to cart around forever.....I feel a mid life crisis coming on

By all accounts you could well have ended single the other day samsiam

Seriously though, one of the things about Thailand is that you can have a mid-life style crisis any time you want

No chance as the massage is due next week.

As for mid life crisis....had one at 35..... might have another one this year or next......already cruising boat sites.

[smacko]

IMHO, its enough. I know you talk about $US2M, but an Oz resident could get 5% bank interest right now at zero risk on $2M (ie $100k per annum) and only have to pay 10% tax as a non resident for tax purposes if living in Thailand (ie end up with $90k per annum after tax). That's less tax than you would pay if you lived in Australia, and you could still live comfortably on that in Oz (let alone Thailand) even with the higher tax rate (most people in fact do, as the average wage is less than this).

where are you getting this 10% tax rate for non resident? the 100k interest would only end up being $66600 after paying tax as a non resident in Australia, see ATO Website

[Naam]

IMHO, its enough. I know you talk about $US2M, but an Oz resident could get 5% bank interest right now at zero risk on $2M (ie $100k per annum) and only have to pay 10% tax as a non resident for tax purposes if living in Thailand (ie end up with $90k per annum after tax). That's less tax than you would pay if you lived in Australia, and you could still live comfortably on that in Oz (let alone Thailand) even with the higher tax rate (most people in fact do, as the average wage is less than this).

where are you getting this 10% tax rate for non resident? the 100k interest would only end up being $66600 after paying tax as a non resident in Australia, see ATO Website

you don't have to be an OZ resident to get 5% on AUD deposits. every bloody bank in Singapore or Hong Kong will give you that percentage (and more depending on the length of the fixed deposit) without deducting any taxes.

[expatdreamer]

IMHO, its enough. I know you talk about $US2M, but an Oz resident could get 5% bank interest right now at zero risk on $2M (ie $100k per annum) and only have to pay 10% tax as a non resident for tax purposes if living in Thailand (ie end up with $90k per annum after tax). That's less tax than you would pay if you lived in Australia, and you could still live comfortably on that in Oz (let alone Thailand) even with the higher tax rate (most people in fact do, as the average wage is less than this).

where are you getting this 10% tax rate for non resident? the 100k interest would only end up being $66600 after paying tax as a non resident in Australia, see ATO Website

No, not correct. If your only income is the 100k AUSD interest, you simply tell your bank that you are a non resident for tax purposes and that they are to withhold the 10% tax. You get the remaining 90% or 90k AUSD, and you dont have to even fill in a tax return after you have declared yourself as a non resident to the ATO. Again, this is only if your income is from bank interest alone and you live overseas and declare yourself a non resident for tax purposes. If you have rent in Aus or more complicated investments, different story, and you will have to pay a higher tax rate on the rent as a non resident (because you dont have access to the tax free threshold)

This is all fairly striaght forward and any accountant in Australia worth his/her salt will be able to confirm - please do this as I am not an accountant. If you still dont believe me, the same thing is discussed here http://gomatildaforums.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5726004143/m/8251019542 - google is your friend

[expatdreamer]

IMHO, its enough. I know you talk about $US2M, but an Oz resident could get 5% bank interest right now at zero risk on $2M (ie $100k per annum) and only have to pay 10% tax as a non resident for tax purposes if living in Thailand (ie end up with $90k per annum after tax). That's less tax than you would pay if you lived in Australia, and you could still live comfortably on that in Oz (let alone Thailand) even with the higher tax rate (most people in fact do, as the average wage is less than this).

where are you getting this 10% tax rate for non resident? the 100k interest would only end up being $66600 after paying tax as a non resident in Australia, see ATO Website

you don't have to be an OZ resident to get 5% on AUD deposits. every bloody bank in Singapore or Hong Kong will give you that percentage (and more depending on the length of the fixed deposit) without deducting any taxes.

yes, but would you not have to declare this overseas income in your tax return of your home country ? Would your home country then try and take a slice?

[rgs2001uk]

IMHO, its enough. I know you talk about $US2M, but an Oz resident could get 5% bank interest right now at zero risk on $2M (ie $100k per annum) and only have to pay 10% tax as a non resident for tax purposes if living in Thailand (ie end up with $90k per annum after tax). That's less tax than you would pay if you lived in Australia, and you could still live comfortably on that in Oz (let alone Thailand) even with the higher tax rate (most people in fact do, as the average wage is less than this).

where are you getting this 10% tax rate for non resident? the 100k interest would only end up being $66600 after paying tax as a non resident in Australia, see ATO Website

you don't have to be an OZ resident to get 5% on AUD deposits. every bloody bank in Singapore or Hong Kong will give you that percentage (and more depending on the length of the fixed deposit) without deducting any taxes.

yes, but would you not have to declare this overseas income in your tax return of your home country ? Would your home country then try and take a slice?

"your tax return of your home country"

What tax return?