Filipinos Teaching English In Thailand

[Renoir]

Hi,

I have read that Thailand wants native speakers of English to teach English. On the other hand, many Filipinos teach English in Thailand. Why is it so? I know that it is their second language but I have known a few Filipinas teaching English and their English was far from perfect.

Renoir

[arthurwait]

Simply because there isn't enough native speakers to fill the jobs especially in towns people don't want to live in or low paid work.

When I first came here I used to get asked all the time by parents saying they didn't want Phillipinos and other nationalities teaching their kids as the kids learnt nothing from them. The money the parents wanted to pay (along with this city being a dump) is the reason they have Phillipino teachers.

[NomadJoe]

I happen to teach at a school along with a Filipino. English is not their second language, it's one of two official languages, which is more than I can say for my home country (USA).

English is widely taught in schools and spoken there. There are over 7000 islands in the Phillipines, and over 150 languages. English often becomes the default language between Filipinos.

[Johnniey]

  On 7/14/2012 at 5:19 PM, arthurwait said:

Simply because there isn't enough native speakers to fill the jobs especially in towns people don't want to live in or low paid work.

When I first came here I used to get asked all the time by parents saying they didn't want Phillipinos and other nationalities teaching their kids as the kids learnt nothing from them. The money the parents wanted to pay (along with this city being a dump) is the reason they have Phillipino teachers.

I've noticed a large increase in African teachers - this was unheard of a few years back. I even knew one black guy from England, who spoke like Trevor McDonald who was hired from a telephone interview. Not one branch of ECC in Bangkok would take him. He ended up doing radio work.

Purely a financial thing with Phillipinos. You can get two for one whitey. I thought that English is pretty much their first language these days.

[JusMe]

"I have known a few Filipinas teaching English and their English was far from perfect. "

Replace that "Filipinas" with Americans or Brits or Canadians, and the statement applies very well - English is far from perfect. Doesn't even approach a basic standard, let alone perfect!

[Trembly]

It's easy for smartarses to say "yeah but there are English / Canadians / Americans etc etc who don't speak English very well either" but the fact is that Filipinos do tend speak to each other in Tagalog and other regional dialects and with some inevitable exceptions the Filipino English speaker speaks with a mangled syntax (such as placing the present continuous in all tenses) and often cannot say soft Ts, Ps, Cs and Ks, turns Vs into Bs and THs into Ds. From what I can see their education system is neck and neck with Thailand's (I've had Filipino friends who have told me that it's better, and some who have told me that it's worse) so it's not surprising.

Same same African / Indian English but different.

I know lots of Filipino English teachers who openly admit to being being scared of the new requirement for English teachers to achieve 650 points (or something like that) in the TOEIC test. The vast majority of people from truly native English speaking countries simply wouldn't have a problem with TOEIC no matter how dire their understanding of grammar.

[Johnniey]

  On 7/14/2012 at 5:53 PM, Trembly said:

It's easy for smartarses to say "yeah but there are English / Canadians / Americans etc etc who don't speak English very well either" but the fact is that Filipinos do tend speak to each other in Tagalog and other regional dialects and with some inevitable exceptions the Filipino English speaker speaks with a mangled syntax (such as placing the present continuous in all tenses) and often cannot say soft Ts, Ps, Cs and Ks, turns Vs into Bs and THs into Ds. From what I can see their education system is neck and neck with Thailand's (I've had Filipino friends who have told me that it's better, and some who have told me that it's worse) so it's not surprising.

Same same African / Indian English but different.

I know lots of Filipino English teachers who openly admit to being being scared of the new requirement for English teachers to achieve 650 points (or something like that) in TOEIC test. The vast majority of people from truly native English speaking countries simply wouldn't have a problem with TOEIC no matter how dire their understanding of grammar.

I disagree - I'd say maybe a slight majority would get that score(unless they were English teachers). Philipinos are much better at teaching English grammar than many farang ones.

[arthurwait]

  On 7/14/2012 at 5:57 PM, Johnniey said:

  On 7/14/2012 at 5:53 PM, Trembly said:

It's easy for smartarses to say "yeah but there are English / Canadians / Americans etc etc who don't speak English very well either" but the fact is that Filipinos do tend speak to each other in Tagalog and other regional dialects and with some inevitable exceptions the Filipino English speaker speaks with a mangled syntax (such as placing the present continuous in all tenses) and often cannot say soft Ts, Ps, Cs and Ks, turns Vs into Bs and THs into Ds. From what I can see their education system is neck and neck with Thailand's (I've had Filipino friends who have told me that it's better, and some who have told me that it's worse) so it's not surprising.

Same same African / Indian English but different.

I know lots of Filipino English teachers who openly admit to being being scared of the new requirement for English teachers to achieve 650 points (or something like that) in TOEIC test. The vast majority of people from truly native English speaking countries simply wouldn't have a problem with TOEIC no matter how dire their understanding of grammar.

I disagree - I'd say maybe a slight majority would get that score(unless they were English teachers). Philipinos are much better at teaching English grammar than many farang ones.

Thai teachers can teach grammar too. What the parents were interested in their kids being taught was conversation. The could read and write English well, but were lacking in conversational skills due to what Trembly has posted.

[thehelmsman]

Where I work Filipinos are the majority of the workforce - all U.S. citizens.I would not want a Filipino teaching my child. Unless they grow up outside of P.I. their English will be poorly spoken. Believe me on this. Filipinos working together will only speak Tagolog with each other.

[GuestHouse]

They are cheaper.

And, as an aside, the UK's courses run by local authorities to teach immigrants english are taught almost entirely by non native english speakers.

The rational is that an native speaker has not been through the same adult learning experience that the class are experiencing.

I can see some merit in this.

By far the best Thai language teacher I had was a not a native Thai speaker, likewise I learned Italian from a French teacher while living in Rome.

[MonkeyMagic3]

I teach with a few Filipinos and their English is quite good but nowhere near the same level as a native English speaker. I've met many more during my time here and, while a few have been on a similar level to a NES, most aren't. The ones I met who were good had a chip on their shoulder because many jobs specified a NES and that Filipinos were paid less but they didn't know how poor their fellow Filipinos were because they only speak in Tagalog when together!

Sure, English is widely used in the Philippines but not to the same extent that English is used in the UK, America, Australia etc and it is unlikely they were brought up and schooled almost exclusively in English like most native speakers are. Maybe some are more competent at grammar than a NES would be but apart from that they lack the skills a NES has. This isn't a dig at Filipinos, just my honest opinion after meeting and working with Filipinos while here in Thailand. Not sure how good the schools and universities are in the Philippines as to whether they get a better education than Thais but worth noting that, until this year, they started University at 16 (unlike 18 in most countries) so a graduate from a Philippine university has 2yrs less education than a graduate from most other countries.

[Scott]

This is an on-going discussion that usually ends up going no where.

Filipinos attend school in English, most are reasonably fluent in English, but they are not native speakers. Neither are the French, Germans or Russians who teach English.

Where I work, we don't use them to teach English. They teach subjects, such as Math, Science and Social Studies in English. Most are certified teachers, which the native teachers are not. They do an excellent job, overall.

[sirchai]

I’m a Nonnative English speaker myself, but grew up in a bilingual environment. In my almost eight years of teaching English in LOS, I’ve experienced that many Filipinos do not understand a conversation between native English speaking people.

Shouldn't English teachers understand English speaking people?

Our Filipinos don’t understand us, when speaking normal. It’s sometimes like talking to M.4 students.

They never speak in English to each other, always using Tagalog.

I know that there’re some excellent Filipino teachers out there, but the majority are questionable poor in English. They do this job to support their families back home, which is quite understandable to me.

What bothers me is that I need to use very easy English when asking them a question. Five of them teach English at our school. It’s not just about their speaking ability, none of them could write a speech for grade three kids.

Therefore we have to do it. I truly believe that any nationalities teaching English all around the world should at least have a very good command in the language they supposed to teach.

I know that most of them have a teachers' license. I'd never say that some of them are on fake degrees.

Manila has something similar to Khao San road; documents can be easily purchased for just a few bucks.

Another proofed fact is that many of them dislike white people, because they think just our skin enables us to make more money than they make. I wouldn’t call them racists though, roughly said........................

[beano2274]

I have found that they are more dedicated to the job, they are also preparing for the lesson well in advance, I know many Native Speakers who don't prepare well enough.

They are not Native speakers and are cheaper, but the majority of them do a good job.

[Scott]

There are two things which need to be reviewed when hiring non-native speakers. First is the English proficiency exam--usually the TOEIC and the score they have received. Secondly, in the case of Filipinos, is whether they are a Licensed Teacher in the Philippines. If they have a License, then this is easy to check out on the internet. There is a site for all the professions taking the licensure examinations.

[sirchai]

  On 7/15/2012 at 7:33 AM, beano2274 said:

I have found that they are more dedicated to the job, they are also preparing for the lesson well in advance, I know many Native Speakers who don't prepare well enough.

They are not Native speakers and are cheaper, but the majority of them do a good job.

That's indeed sad, if many Native speakers do not prepare their lessons as well as they do. Thought guys who settled down here would enjoy teaching, without the pressure to send money to any relatives.

And that was exactly my point, to be honest, my view of teaching and living here.

I'm doing it, because I love it. The kids' feedback's worth more than the salary.

But isn't the whole ball game changing when you're only in for the money? Sorry, I could be wrong........

[BlackArtemis]

Most Filipinos will end up working in government schools along side native speakers with unrelated degrees. Often the Filipino will have a Bachelors or Masters of Education and years of experience teaching in the Phillipines.

I can assure you that before I gained a few years of experience and finally went back for a degree in Education, many of the Filipino teachers I knew were much better educators than I was, but hey I'm white, so in Thailand I'm the better choice...

Many times we tend to connect a thick accent to the idea that someone is not proficient enough in a language, this can be far from the truth.

[sirchai]

  On 7/15/2012 at 10:16 AM, BlackArtemis said:

Most Filipinos will end up working in government schools along side native speakers with unrelated degrees. Often the Filipino will have a Bachelors or Masters of Education and years of experience teaching in the Phillipines.

I can assure you that before I gained a few years of experience and finally went back for a degree in Education, many of the Filipino teachers I knew were much better educators than I was, but hey I'm white, so in Thailand I'm the better choice...

Many times we tend to connect a thick accent to the idea that someone is not proficient enough in a language, this can be far from the truth.

Would you have written the same post, being an colored American? Of course not.But now it's not about being white, it's about the quality of teaching English here in LOS.

The question was obviously about English teachers from the Philippines.

What many people in LOS do not understand is that even garbage collectors in Europe are making MUCH more money than a real teacher in the Philippines.

The average salary for a real teacher in the PI's is around 7,000 baht.

People in my origin country receive more money from the government if they're just too lazy to go and do a job. Plus getting an apartment for free, etc....

I haven't seen the well qualified teachers from the PI in almost eight years, and I don't care where somebody's coming from, when doing a good job.

My uncle was an English teacher and then the principal at a high school in Germany, there was neither a Brit, nor a Filipino. He taught English for 28 years and he's good.

What I'm trying to say is Thais should send their guys to places where they really learn the language, staying a few years in an English speaking country wouldn't just change their command in English, but also their attitude being afraid losing face.

With other words: They don't really know what they do. And I'm not religious.

[challenger99]

  On 7/14/2012 at 5:20 PM, NomadJoe said:

I happen to teach at a school along with a Filipino. English is not their second language, it's one of two official languages, which is more than I can say for my home country (USA).

English is widely taught in schools and spoken there. There are over 7000 islands in the Phillipines, and over 150 languages. English often becomes the default language between Filipinos.

what mean native speaking? If English or German etc. native speking don't mean well speaking!!! Myself I have often pain to understand an american slang (most speak one) or a classig oxford english. For me many Filipinis speak a "natural" English easy to understand. I have seen native speaking NON teacher from USA, UK etc. which never was teacher in home country but bakers, butchers, architect. Teaching need more knowledge then only know +/- the language! For me what I watch 90% of Filipions are minimzm at the leve of the "native" speaking nations.

[chowny77]

If it says "Native english speaker" then it means you must have been born and raised in a native english speaking country. Thats it! If your second language is english, then you are not a native english speaker. I agree that non-native speakers are better at grammer than native speakers because we do not learn that unless we study it at higher levels of education. It is taught to us through our environment and interaction with our family. I have tried to learn Thai. When I ask a Thai person about their gramatical structure they can not answer me.............same same. They learnt their language the same as farang..............time they saw this.

[TongueThaied]

The best, most dedicated and most effective English teachers I have seen here are Filipino.

[TongueThaied]

  On 7/15/2012 at 7:28 AM, sirchai said:

I’m a Nonnative English speaker myself, but grew up in a bilingual environment. In my almost eight years of teaching English in LOS, I’ve experienced that many Filipinos do not understand a conversation between native English speaking people.

Shouldn't English teachers understand English speaking people?

Our Filipinos don’t understand us, when speaking normal. It’s sometimes like talking to M.4 students.

They never speak in English to each other, always using Tagalog.

I know that there’re some excellent Filipino teachers out there, but the majority are questionable poor in English. They do this job to support their families back home, which is quite understandable to me.

What bothers me is that I need to use very easy English when asking them a question. Five of them teach English at our school. It’s not just about their speaking ability, none of them could write a speech for grade three kids.

Therefore we have to do it. I truly believe that any nationalities teaching English all around the world should at least have a very good command in the language they supposed to teach.

I know that most of them have a teachers' license. I'd never say that some of them are on fake degrees.

Manila has something similar to Khao San road; documents can be easily purchased for just a few bucks.

Another proofed fact is that many of them dislike white people, because they think just our skin enables us to make more money than they make. I wouldn’t call them racists though, roughly said........................

I have seen VERY FEW Thai English teachers that could either speak or understand English, and 98% of the English teachers are Thai. Now THAT'S a real winner!

[sirchai]

  On 7/16/2012 at 1:29 AM, TongueThaied said:

The best, most dedicated and most effective English teachers I have seen here are Filipino.

This is an on-going discussion that usually ends up going no where. Should have listened to Scott......

[KhaoNiaw]

I know a Chinese girl working in the English Department of a university here. Master's in English and an excellent teacher. Much better than an unqualified 'native'.

As English has become a truly international language, it doesn't really matter where the teachers come from as long as they have the requisite level of language ability, knowledge, qualifications and teaching ability.

Set the standards you require and take on those who meet them.

[BlackArtemis]

  On 7/15/2012 at 2:21 PM, sirchai said:

  On 7/15/2012 at 10:16 AM, BlackArtemis said:

Most Filipinos will end up working in government schools along side native speakers with unrelated degrees. Often the Filipino will have a Bachelors or Masters of Education and years of experience teaching in the Phillipines.

I can assure you that before I gained a few years of experience and finally went back for a degree in Education, many of the Filipino teachers I knew were much better educators than I was, but hey I'm white, so in Thailand I'm the better choice...

Many times we tend to connect a thick accent to the idea that someone is not proficient enough in a language, this can be far from the truth.

Would you have written the same post, being an colored American? Of course not.But now it's not about being white, it's about the quality of teaching English here in LOS.

The question was obviously about English teachers from the Philippines.

What many people in LOS do not understand is that even garbage collectors in Europe are making MUCH more money than a real teacher in the Philippines.

The average salary for a real teacher in the PI's is around 7,000 baht.

People in my origin country receive more money from the government if they're just too lazy to go and do a job. Plus getting an apartment for free, etc....

I haven't seen the well qualified teachers from the PI in almost eight years, and I don't care where somebody's coming from, when doing a good job.

My uncle was an English teacher and then the principal at a high school in Germany, there was neither a Brit, nor a Filipino. He taught English for 28 years and he's good.

What I'm trying to say is Thais should send their guys to places where they really learn the language, staying a few years in an English speaking country wouldn't just change their command in English, but also their attitude being afraid losing face.

With other words: They don't really know what they do. And I'm not religious.

Are you saying that Thailand cares more about having qualified teachers over whether or not someone is Farang? Because I would like to point out the vast majority of teachers working for 22-30k/month are recent college grads with no experience and often an unrelated degree. I would say the "We have farang native teachers to teach you child English" ranks hirer than "We have teachers who know the ins and outs of grammar and can teach phonetics".

I know that jobs in Thailand is a pay increase for Filipinos, despite enjoying teaching at Universities back home, 2 of my friends came here to teach at a government school and make more money than in Manila.

If "guys" refer to students, then it is quite cost prohibitive for Thai's to send their kids to study over seas, though the ones that can afford to do so do,

If you meant educators, there are small programs to send teachers to Aus and NZ for seminars, but that's about it. Again the government doesn't see it as cost effective. Furthermore, many Thais who are highly educated and fluent in English scoff at the crummy teachers salary and take on a career they can earn better money in.

Also, about your post about it being sad about the example of native teachers not planning their lessons as well as their Filipino counterparts, at that school (and my old one). You already stated that teaching here is a raise in their standard of living. A westerner most likely does not see 25k/month as a serious lifetime commitment and would be more inclined to slack off. Furthermore, with their lack of an education degree, I doubt they have ever made more than 5 lessons plans, let alone a unit plan with Standards and objectives, prior to teaching. Does this justify their actions? No.

I will agree that there needs to be some change in the system and not every case is the same. But really, I doubt anything will change and Thai's will have to keep doing what they have been doing for a proper English based education, Go to a high end private school, international school, go abroad, or tons of private tutoring at a reputable place.

Maybe one day they'll realize that age, sex, and nationality doesn't determine one's ability to teach.

Also, due to the nature of the internet we can not always tell the intention and emotion behind posts. This is not a "wll, you're wrong because..." just more of my own experience teaching in Thailand.

[Rhys]

Ho Hum.. Moderator.. time to close the threat.. same old......

[Scott]

I have to agree. This topic has been discussed numerous times and it leads no where.

//Closed//