12 Month Student Visa No Longer Available (New Immigration Department Policy)

[jrtmedic]

My next door neighbour, an Immigration Policeman, tells me that he always speaks Thai to those who claim to be studying the language. Nothing to difficult he assures me (with a laugh) but he does admit to asking Ed.extension applicants if "Big fish eat Smaller fish"!

Apparently a number of people are refused an extension of stay!

[solentstu]

I have an education visa and study every week. we have a great school and I have made good friends in the classes. I was really concerned to hear about changes to the 1 year ed visa. Does anyone have an update from this meeting that was taking place on friday?

[jrtmedic]

Daveb1

Interesting that you believe Thailand has "silly rules" should be "fair". From my point of view Thailand has a very liberal policy in relation to foreigners who wish to stay here.

Tell me Dave of ONE JUST ONE Western country which has a "fair" immigration policy and no "silly rules"

[pacovl46]

For language and other studies at private schools, immigration offices generally grant extensions of stay for only 90 days at a time, unless it is a degree-earning course, usually at a government university. The Phuket immigration office appears to have made exceptions and it may have been instructed to follow the general immigration guidelines now.

I have an ED visa, too, and I get only 3-month extensions at a time. I'm surprised to hear that he got 1 year. I hope you are right about this.

[cowslip]

so because of a loophole they stop the whole damned thing?

Can't the OP get a Non Im "O" anymore????

[jrtmedic]

Cowslip

Of course, anyone can obtain an "O" visa IF they meet the requirements.

[pacovl46]

Because of the mass abuse of this visa, they really should stop it altogether. Given up counting the amount of people that talk about having an ED Visa and never attending a college. Its a money spinner for the schools and its unfair to those of us that have gone through he correct channels to process our appropriate visas. Get rid of it!

What's your problem? Not all the people that are on an ED visa are abusing it. There's lots of people who go to class regularly and really want to learn the language. Do they have to lose that option, too because others abuse it??? There was an article on Thai Visa a while ago saying that the immigration department will crack down on schools that allow their students to abuse it and close them down. That's a much better way to address the problem than doing away with it for good. Additionally there's regularly tests to be taken and without them an extension will not be granted. That already ensures that people have to attend classes. Your opinion is ridiculous in my opinion!!!

[jrtmedic]

Pavcov146

I agree it would be sad if the Ed Visa was withdrawn. It has, however, been the subject of widespread abuse and there is little point in denying that.

[Phronesis]

As I have stated in my earlier posts, I am new to Thai Visa and started this topic to share (and hopefully shed some additional light upon) an salient issue arising from the 12 month ED visa. I am frankly amazed at the number of members that sought to drag the discussion off topic by commenting upon girlie bars.

My understanding is that the Thai government has bifurcated the administration of Labor and Immigration. Thus, there exists a Labor department and an Immigration department.

This topic is about a policy change mooted by the new staff at Phuket Immigration department.

It is NOT ABOUT eastern Europeans, or others, using ED visa to work illegally. If you want to discuss that issue please START YOUR OWN TOPIC on the efficacy of policing and enforcement by the Labor department.

I have just spoken to the owner of my language school and was advised as follows:

1. The meeting scheduled for last Friday was held

2. The staff from Phuket Immigration used the meeting to gather information, ideas and opinions from school owners and managers

3. Immigration staff will have a further meeting (between themselves) early this comming week and have undertaking to report back on the outcomes later this week.

[Gary A]

What do girly bars have to do with learning Thai? Those guys have a very good reason to learn to speak Thai. I see absolutely no problem with that. If I remember correctly, sometime back there was a post saying that a guy on an Ed extension was quizzed on his ability to understand and speak Thai by the immigration officer. After a full year of "study", he could not understand even the very most basic Thai. He was turned down. If a person is actually learning the language he is entitled to extensions. If the school is just a scam like many of them are, they should be shut down and they should no longer be able to authorize a visa or extensions.

[jrtmedic]

Phronesis

Phuket was ( I believe) unique in granting 12 month extensions on an Ed. visa. If anything happens it will probably just mean that the Phuket Immigration office will adopt the practise of only offering 90 day extensions backed by appropriate paperwork

[solentstu]

surely the best and easiest way to sort this out would be to give some form of very brief test to verify that the ed visa applicants such as myself were actually learning thai. I am sure that all of us using the visa legitimately would have no problem with that. Or just get the immigration officials to converse in basic thai with the applicants and grant or deny visa based on what they find.

[robertson468]

Oh dear...my very first post on TV, and it has been met with a barrage of poisonous replies that add nothing to clarify the issue raised.

Good Lord, some people have dreadful little lives. If you have nothing more to contribute than hateful piffle, turn off your computer and go for a walk in the night air.

For the handful of members that sought add something positive to the discussion, here is my update as promised:

At present the ED visa is good for 3 years. The current curriculum approved by the MOE is comprised of a beginner, intermediate and advanced level. One year is permitted to complete each level.

New staff at Phuket immigration, have suggested to owners and managers of the island's language schools, that the curriculum should be condensed to six months for each level, with a maximum time on a student visa of eighteen months.

The schools have expressed their collective concerns to the new immigration staff and, as a result, a brainstorming meeting has been scheduled for this coming Friday.

It would seem that the mooted policy change has originated specifically from Phuket.

When I spoke with the owner of my language school today I was told that the following points will no doubt be raised during the discussions on Friday:

• The significant contribution to the economy made by long stay students
  
• The significant impact the mooted policy change would have on the commercial viability of most schools
  
• The difficulty in trying to squeeze 3 years worth of curriculum into 18 months.
  
• The fact that other provinces have not expressed any concern with the current ED visa regime
  

I will endeavor to provide a further update in the wake of the impending meeting.

Who are your ''poisonous replies'' aimed at ? Me ? Immigration is weeding out the scammers, Yes/No. Your school WANTS the cash, they don't care the students reason for being there, the CASH flow counts. And thats cool, a business, BUT, if lowlifes are using it to set up dodgy girlie businesses then why shouldn't the authorities do their stuff. ?

I agree on both accounts that yes there are some unnecessary vitriolic replies to the original post, but I would suggest you read more carefully the post that you are complaining about. Phronesis has not advocated at any time that he agrees with a corrupt language system. On the contrary, I understand him to say that the Ed Visa should be retained, but better checks and balances need to be brought in to the system to make sure there is less likely hood of abuse. It sounds to me that a sledge hammer is being used to solve a relatively simple problem - some form of progressive language test perhaps, or as previously suggested, an attendance card needs to be submitted with each Visa renewal? Incidentally, I understand from the Language School on Koh Samui that one can study for up to seven years. The bottom line is, if the schools can be better regulated, it can be but a good thing that Foreigners are learning Thai, which will improve their quality of life here and it offers employment and income to the schools.

[Phronesis]

Phronesis

Phuket was ( I believe) unique in granting 12 month extensions on an Ed. visa. If anything happens it will probably just mean that the Phuket Immigration office will adopt the practise of only offering 90 day extensions backed by appropriate paperwork

Thanks for your input. However, my understanding is that all schools can, presently, draft the requisite paperwork for a student to receive: the initial 90 visa, then a 9 month extension, and then two 12 month extensions thereafter. Total permitted time on the ED is 3 years. Of course the school must have a curriculum that supports a three year study program. Mine has: Beginners year one, Intermediates year two, Advanced year three. Phuket is also not the only place that offers extensions greater than 90 days. We recently had two students depart our school to study in provinces other than Phuket. Both of them had no problems receiving the requested 12 month extensions.

As I outlined in my first post, there two facets to the mooted policy change:

The first is to limit extensions to a maximum of 6 months.

The second is to limit the maximum amount of extensions to 3. This change, if adopted would reduce the total time one could spend on an ED visa from 3 years down to 18 months

Edited July 22, 2012 by Phronesis

[NancyL]

Saying the ED visa should be eliminated because so many people abuse it is like saying the retirement visa should be eliminated because so many people abuse it, i.e. people swearing false oaths at the their embassy, three people sharing 800,000 baht, transferring it from one person's account to another the monent they get their annual extension, people borrowing funds for one day if they can use the combo method to show financial worth, etc.

It's really up to the Thai authorities to enforce the rules they already have in place, rather than eliminate a certain type of visa because it's widely abused.

I just joined an on-going Thai class at a well-respected institution. Several members of the class have ED visas. The teacher marks attendance in a book every session and I believe they enforce a certain minimum attendance requirement (I think it's 70%). We use a workbook in the class and she makes the people who don't do their homework sit and do it in the corner during class, just so something is written in their book. Frankly, it's a little frustrating for those of us who just want to learn Thai, because (guess what!), the only students who never do their homework, come late and carry on side conversations are those on ED visas.

But, at least those guys would be able to pass a simple verbal test at Immigration, plus the school has legitimate attendance records and student workbooks that show some attempt at doing homework.

I haven't asked how long their visa is valid, however. I'll be nosy and ask soon since they seem to be getting new extensions for the end of July.

Edited July 22, 2012 by NancyL

[silent]

Because of the mass abuse of this visa, they really should stop it altogether. Given up counting the amount of people that talk about having an ED Visa and never attending a college. Its a money spinner for the schools and its unfair to those of us that have gone through he correct channels to process our appropriate visas. Get rid of it!

And how do we spell sanctimonious? (bet is some really could use the EDucation)

[crille30]

surely the best and easiest way to sort this out would be to give some form of very brief test to verify that the ed visa applicants such as myself were actually learning thai. I am sure that all of us using the visa legitimately would have no problem with that. Or just get the immigration officials to converse in basic thai with the applicants and grant or deny visa based on what they find.

It have to be same test for all,cant have verbal because of then its up the officer and if he have a bad day you will have big problem,500 baht under the tabel and my Thai is perfect? wont work,Written test? well same agin,give me 1000baht and you wil pass.And we also learn in different speed,Im old and slow,some guys in my school are in there 20 s learn much quicker.Best way is put the school to report with every extension/report to immigration a paper of your presence at school.If you dont do you hour there will be no more ed visa for you.If the school want to cheat and help you and add hour , then they will lose there licens and will be out of business.If all the hotels and guesthouse can report every guest that lives there to immigration,then the school can do this simpel report.

[Mario2008]

This thread seems to be a lot of rumors and scare mongering.

Normal policy of immirgation has always been to give 90 day extensions for people studying elsewhere then at a regular school or university. Some immigration offices gave a longer extension then 90 day, but it seems those days are over. At least in Phuket, or limited to 6 months now.

Nothing suggest that what is stated by the OP is now national policy.

[Udox]

I have an ED visa. I get 90 days each time and have to renew it every 3 months. On each renewal I have to submit paperwork from my school including an attendance sheet. At the end of the first year - if I wish to continue to study, as well as paying for a further years school fees, there is a Ministry of Education test to pass, which although basic is to ensure you have learned at least something. If you never attended classes, chances are you would not pass (unless somebody was helping you on the side). I attend my classes every week and have learned to read, write and converse in Thai.

Yes I took this route because I am not 50, married or working but am fully entitled to have this visa and fulfill the requirements as much as anyone else who has, say - a marriage visa or retirement visa.

Every category of visa holder will have its bad eggs who abuse it - but should they do away with marriage visas for everyone because 2 dozen people in Thailand were found to have 'fake' wives?

I am enjoying my time here, enjoying my studies and doing something useful to help me in my adopted country. I am fully legal and play by the rules - If other people don't like that, for whatever reason. Mind your own goddam business!

[Dolgure]

How one can recognize a "regular school" from "irregular" one pls?

[Udox]

How one can recognize a "regular school" from "irregular" one pls?

Depends what you mean by 'regular' or 'irregular'

It is common knowledge in the Thai language schools circle - which schools are used if you are not that interested in learning Thai and those who are serious about giving you a good educational return for your 25,000 baht.

A trawl through the Thai language forum will make it clear - for sure !

[phuketrichard]

i would like to put in my $.05 worth.

I see nothing wrong with the ed visa and it is a great thing for those that want to remain in Thailand and want to learn thai.

BUT as stated it is abused and in phuket a lot.

My ex neighbor had a 1 year extension and she attended class 3 hours/week where the teacher did not even bother to teach anything

To fix it all they need do is make the student take a test every 3 months an verify they have learned/studied thai.

IF not they lose the visa and the teacher loses her/his job and if it goes on ,t eh school is closed. SO in the end the school will enforce it to make sure they remain open.

[thaikahuna]

Does not surprise me. People on here and other forums openly talk about how they use this type of visa in Thailand to either study legitimately or to just have an extended stay in Thailand.

Immigration have long used websites and forums as research to close perceived “loop holes”

When people openly flaunt their circumventing of the law do not be upset when that avenue of opportunity is suddenlt blocked. It is not just the foreigners making use of these "loopholes" either. There was an incident reported several months ago in Pattaya where a school was responsible for ED visas for more students than it could possibly train even if they were open 24/7.

[belg]

if it can get rid of the farang scammers of all countries that abuse the ED visa for doing their illegal activities, I would call that a welcome

who would not who is here on the WP, marriage or pension visa's with money in the bank and to the thai economy

[Dolgure]

I was referring to:

Normal policy of immirgation has always been to give 90 day extensions for people studying elsewhere then at a regular school or university.

My school advertises it can do up to FIVE yearly extensions, so I wonder is it "regular"

[Parvis]

Because of the mass abuse of this visa, they really should stop it altogether. Given up counting the amount of people that talk about having an ED Visa and never attending a college. Its a money spinner for the schools and its unfair to those of us that have gone through he correct channels to process our appropriate visas. Get rid of it!

It's amazing the degree of mean-spiritedness coming mostly by foreigners against other foreigners on this forum. Happily, the wonderful Thai immigration authorities are in practice MUCH more reasonable. The ED visa used according the rules IS a totally proper, totally legitimate visa. It's very offensive to suggest otherwise.

It is rather "mean-spirited" of certain Thailanguage Schools to function primarily as ED Visa Mills and for the Education Department to allow them to function as such. The function of teaching Thai is often not even a serious consideration - with teachers unqualified - poorly developed textbooks AND when one complains as I did - one gets told by the School owner (among other things) - you are too old (my 22500 baht for 30 hours of one on one - were not too old - ofcourse).

The real looser - with these Thai Visa Mills - is the serious student whose interest is ONLY to become proficient in the Thai Language - but does not get the professional program he/she paid for.

Edited July 22, 2012 by Parvis

[McMagus]

Although I have worked here on and off for nearly 7 years..with a legit work permit and paying taxes etc. etc. I decided that because my Thai is <deleted>, I would enrol in a language school, get an Ed visa and hopefully slow down the oldtimers disease:-) To those who think the whole Ed visa thing should be abolished ... shame on you... my life will be richer for studying Thai and so will Thailand for having me in their country in many different ways. To those brainless farangs who have been abusing the system for years .. I hope you get your what you deserve. At my school we must register our attendance every day. It would be a shame for the actions of a stupid few to wreck it for those who legitimately want to study.

[Udox]

Although I have worked here on and off for nearly 7 years..with a legit work permit and paying taxes etc. etc. I decided that because my Thai is <deleted>, I would enrol in a language school, get an Ed visa and hopefully slow down the oldtimers disease:-) To those who think the whole Ed visa thing should be abolished ... shame on you... my life will be richer for studying Thai and so will Thailand for having me in their country in many different ways. To those brainless farangs who have been abusing the system for years .. I hope you get your what you deserve. At my school we must register our attendance every day. It would be a shame for the actions of a stupid few to wreck it for those who legitimately want to study.

Agree +1

Same situation as me.

I am fully legal, I study here (bloody hard sometimes) and have the correct visa.

If there were a (viable) alternative way of staying here - I would willingly do it, but there isn't so I must study - which isn't such a bad thing.

There are ways to get round anything (or any visa) if you try hard enough - but I'm not interested in what other people do, or want to do.

I am sure someone will tell me to get a job, get a wife or to 'grow up'. (Had one, Had one, happy to be under 50

Edited July 22, 2012 by Maestro
Deleted off-topic comment and wrong information.

[richard10365]

I'm not sure what is happening with the language schools but at the university level everything is business as usual.

The following is the visa process for students studying at Payap University in Chiang Mai.

• 3 month visa upon arrival
  
• 9 month extension
  
• 12 month extension every year until you graduate (Max 8 years)
  
• Every 90 days report to immigration and report
  

If this changes I will let you know.

[Mario2008]

How one can recognize a "regular school" from "irregular" one pls?

With a regular school I mean normal education, like elementary- and secondary schools, college and university.