Fake Document Got Abhisit His Military Job, Defence Ministry Says

[chotthee]

..snip..

IMHO should Abhisit once more become PM, the morally malleable moron heading the DSI would be out of work in short order, and the definition of perjury (in Thailand) would revert to that used in the rest of the world.

I think the moron heading the DSI will change side immediately and will be for Mark disposal at all times.

Charges on Mark will immediately be drop, and dropped charges on Thaksin will re-surface.

[OzMick]

..snip..

IMHO should Abhisit once more become PM, the morally malleable moron heading the DSI would be out of work in short order, and the definition of perjury (in Thailand) would revert to that used in the rest of the world.

I think the moron heading the DSI will change side immediately and will be for Mark disposal at all times.

Charges on Mark will immediately be drop, and dropped charges on Thaksin will re-surface.

"......dropped charges on Thaksin......" ?????

AFAIK all charges are still current and waiting for the fugitive to return.

[Robby nz]

I wonder how much energy and money they have spent to try to get something on him.

So if its true then finally they have.

But so what if he told a lie back in 1986 or 88 they have had to go a long way back to find anything.

Wasnt it the bible that said something about looking at yourself before looking at others?

A thought, does that mean he is qualified to join PT?

[Rhys]

Way to go.. more important matters to attend to than this.. way to go team.

[Scott]

A number of off-topic posts have been deleted and I note that this thread is continuing to go off-topic.

Please stick to the topic.

[geriatrickid]

No not a red shirt. Just have rose tinted glasses

If these lot had ANYTHING of substance on Abhisit they would have their red mouthpieces shouting from the roof tops. The fact they are regurgitating old news shows they have nothing.

I ask again are there ANY serving politicians that have ever served in the army due to conscription?

I believe not. If not how did they manage it.

Many MPs from all political parties including cabinet ministers, volunteered or were in other branches of service that satisfied national service requirements. It is the tie that binds so many of them with class friendships and loyalties. Current examples are Pracha Promnok, Minister of Justice, Defence Minister Suwannathat, Technology Minister Nakornthap, Deputy PM Sasiprapha etc.

[Noistar]

I wonder how many falsified documents Taksin and his cronies have passed as real in thair time, because lying, cheating and steeling to them is natural. Abisit was obviously only doing what all Thais do,being cleaver and using his influential pears.

I wonder how many falsified documents Taksin and his cronies have passed as real in thair time, because lying, cheating and steeling to them is natural. Abisit was obviously only doing what all Thais do,being cleaver and using his influential pears.

Assuming he did of course

[geriatrickid]

I wonder how much energy and money they have spent to try to get something on him.

So if its true then finally they have.

But so what if he told a lie back in 1986 or 88 they have had to go a long way back to find anything.

Wasnt it the bible that said something about looking at yourself before looking at others?

A thought, does that mean he is qualified to join PT?

Again I ask, why are you so certain that it is the PTP that "got him"?

Leaks of confidential information typically come from inside sources. Is it not conceivable, this might be a political settling of accounts from some in the military or part of an attempt to replace Abhisit? Politics in Thailand is cut throat and there is no loyalty. One need only look how some abandoned Thaksin for the Democrats, but in the past year have came back with their tails between their legs.

[Noistar]

I wonder how much energy and money they have spent to try to get something on him.

So if its true then finally they have.

But so what if he told a lie back in 1986 or 88 they have had to go a long way back to find anything.

Wasnt it the bible that said something about looking at yourself before looking at others?

A thought, does that mean he is qualified to join PT?

Again I ask, why are you so certain that it is the PTP that "got him"?

Leaks of confidential information typically come from inside sources. Is it not conceivable, this might be a political settling of accounts from some in the military or part of an attempt to replace Abhisit? Politics in Thailand is cut throat and there is no loyalty. One need only look how some abandoned Thaksin for the Democrats, but in the past year have came back with their tails between their legs.

IMHO

PTP haven't shown themselves to be trustworthy regarding control of everything which is needed to ensure their unrestricted 'Democracy' isn't interrupted.

I wouldn't be surprised if the discovery was initiated by them, but that is only my opinion.

Current Thai Democracy is as transparent as tar. Perhaps all we can do is offer opinions,as the facts are unlikely to surface

[rubl]

No not a red shirt. Just have rose tinted glasses

If these lot had ANYTHING of substance on Abhisit they would have their red mouthpieces shouting from the roof tops. The fact they are regurgitating old news shows they have nothing.

I ask again are there ANY serving politicians that have ever served in the army due to conscription?

I believe not. If not how did they manage it.

Many MPs from all political parties including cabinet ministers, volunteered or were in other branches of service that satisfied national service requirements. It is the tie that binds so many of them with class friendships and loyalties. Current examples are Pracha Promnok, Minister of Justice, Defence Minister Suwannathat, Technology Minister Nakornthap, Deputy PM Sasiprapha etc.

Thaicbr asked "ever served in the army due to conscription" with gKid answering "volunteered or were in other branches of service that satisfied national service requirements". Now for us poor viewers to start wondering if Q & A are really related

[thaicbr]

No not a red shirt. Just have rose tinted glasses

If these lot had ANYTHING of substance on Abhisit they would have their red mouthpieces shouting from the roof tops. The fact they are regurgitating old news shows they have nothing.

I ask again are there ANY serving politicians that have ever served in the army due to conscription?

I believe not. If not how did they manage it.

Many MPs from all political parties including cabinet ministers, volunteered or were in other branches of service that satisfied national service requirements. It is the tie that binds so many of them with class friendships and loyalties. Current examples are Pracha Promnok, Minister of Justice, Defence Minister Suwannathat, Technology Minister Nakornthap, Deputy PM Sasiprapha etc.

They didnt volunteer. They got a job in the armed forces. Very. Very different.

Now back to the original.

Have ANY current politicians been drafted in to the army via the conscript method?

sent from my Wellcom A90+

[OzMick]

Now, did Abhisit knowingly use a fake document.........?

I believe so, if not, he would have posted the document on his Facebook, instead of conveniently say "Oooops....., I lost it for a second time".

Right - Facebook is the ultimate proof. If it's not on Facebook it didn't happen - unless there is a video on Youtube.

[chotthee]

Now, did Abhisit knowingly use a fake document.........?

I believe so, if not, he would have posted the document on his Facebook, instead of conveniently say "Oooops....., I lost it for a second time".

Right - Facebook is the ultimate proof. If it's not on Facebook it didn't happen - unless there is a video on Youtube.

Mark could have shown in the proof if not in his Facebook, better still on TV, or a press conference.

I believe he has already burn the fake copy. In short, destroy the evident, and hope no body have a photocopy.

Mark was wrong. A copy of the fake was display by that fat toad look-a-like ex PT MP, on TV.

[Reasonableman]

Now, did Abhisit knowingly use a fake document.........?

I believe so, if not, he would have posted the document on his Facebook, instead of conveniently say "Oooops....., I lost it for a second time".

Right - Facebook is the ultimate proof. If it's not on Facebook it didn't happen - unless there is a video on Youtube.

Mark could have shown in the proof if not in his Facebook, better still on TV, or a press conference.

I believe he has already burn the fake copy. In short, destroy the evident, and hope no body have a photocopy.

Mark was wrong. A copy of the fake was display by that fat toad look-a-like ex PT MP, on TV.

Yes, you suggest and believe a lot of things for which there is no evidence. So what? This matter is not concluded, and your Inspector Clouseau remarks are not shedding any further light on it.

[geriatrickid]

No not a red shirt. Just have rose tinted glasses

If these lot had ANYTHING of substance on Abhisit they would have their red mouthpieces shouting from the roof tops. The fact they are regurgitating old news shows they have nothing.

I ask again are there ANY serving politicians that have ever served in the army due to conscription?

I believe not. If not how did they manage it.

Many MPs from all political parties including cabinet ministers, volunteered or were in other branches of service that satisfied national service requirements. It is the tie that binds so many of them with class friendships and loyalties. Current examples are Pracha Promnok, Minister of Justice, Defence Minister Suwannathat, Technology Minister Nakornthap, Deputy PM Sasiprapha etc.

They didnt volunteer. They got a job in the armed forces. Very. Very different.

Now back to the original.

Have ANY current politicians been drafted in to the army via the conscript method?

sent from my Wellcom A90+

And again I reply, that typically, serving cabinet ministers with national service records volunteered. Cabinet ministers have for the most part come from the upper middle and upper classes of Thai society. It was customary for the children of these social demographic groups to have volunteered at some point or to have joined a branch of the defence forces including the police as part of their career decisions. Are you aware that If you volunteer, depending upon one's educational status, the term of service can be reduced to 6 months? Also, if one is in what is ostensibly the cadet corps for 3 years while in high school, one is not conscripted since the national service requirement will have been met. If MPs and cabinet ministers already met their national service requirements, they would not be conscripted. Therefore your question is redundant.

Edited July 24, 2012 by geriatrickid

[chotthee]

Now, did Abhisit knowingly use a fake document.........?

I believe so, if not, he would have posted the document on his Facebook, instead of conveniently say "Oooops....., I lost it for a second time".

Right - Facebook is the ultimate proof. If it's not on Facebook it didn't happen - unless there is a video on Youtube.

Mark could have shown in the proof if not in his Facebook, better still on TV, or a press conference.

I believe he has already burn the fake copy. In short, destroy the evident, and hope no body have a photocopy.

Mark was wrong. A copy of the fake was display by that fat toad look-a-like ex PT MP, on TV.

Yes, you suggest and believe a lot of things for which there is no evidence. So what? This matter is not concluded, and your Inspector Clouseau remarks are not shedding any further light on it.

The point is, mark seems to have lost all the evident that is against him.

And that toad seems to have all the evident that Mark claims to have lost.

There must be a robbery at Mark house then?

[binjalin]

so we wait and see? he'll find a way out anyway as he's a part of the 'amart' and will be protected 'unless' there really was a 'slip-up' and it can't be brushed aside. One thing for sure they are working very, very hard to find a way out - and they probably will - if they don't maybe Thailand really IS changing, now wouldn't that be something??? (the majority of old, traditionalist, deferential voter type TVF posters won't like it of course)

[Buchholz]

No not a red shirt. Just have rose tinted glasses

If these lot had ANYTHING of substance on Abhisit they would have their red mouthpieces shouting from the roof tops. The fact they are regurgitating old news shows they have nothing.

I ask again are there ANY serving politicians that have ever served in the army due to conscription?

I believe not. If not how did they manage it.

Many MPs from all political parties including cabinet ministers, volunteered or were in other branches of service that satisfied national service requirements. It is the tie that binds so many of them with class friendships and loyalties. Current examples are Pracha Promnok, Minister of Justice, Defence Minister Suwannathat, Technology Minister Nakornthap, Deputy PM Sasiprapha etc.

They didnt volunteer. They got a job in the armed forces. Very. Very different.

Now back to the original.

Have ANY current politicians been drafted in to the army via the conscript method?

And again I reply, that typically, serving cabinet ministers with national service records volunteered. Cabinet ministers have for the most part come from the upper middle and upper classes of Thai society. It was customary for the children of these social demographic groups to have volunteered at some point or to have joined a branch of the defence forces including the police as part of their career decisions. Are you aware that If you volunteer, depending upon one's educational status, the term of service can be reduced to 6 months? Also, if one is in what is ostensibly the cadet corps for 3 years while in high school, one is not conscripted since the national service requirement will have been met. If MPs and cabinet ministers already met their national service requirements, they would not be conscripted. Therefore your question is redundant.

The short answer to the question being no; no current politician has been drafted in to the army via the conscript method.

.

[Reasonableman]

Re #305

As Leonard McCoy was wont to say in Star Trek... "He's dead, Jim"

[rubl]

so we wait and see? he'll find a way out anyway as he's a part of the 'amart' and will be protected 'unless' there really was a 'slip-up' and it can't be brushed aside. One thing for sure they are working very, very hard to find a way out - and they probably will - if they don't maybe Thailand really IS changing, now wouldn't that be something??? (the majority of old, traditionalist, deferential voter type TVF posters won't like it of course)

BS, utter BS. There seems a discrepancy between two documents (from 1986/1984), the MoD has cancelled a newsconference abruptly. So obviously and clear for all to see, k. Abhisit finds a way out? He must be guilty for sure, binjalin thinks so

[Moruya]

Now, did Abhisit knowingly use a fake document.........?

I believe so, if not, he would have posted the document on his Facebook, instead of conveniently say "Oooops....., I lost it for a second time".

Right - Facebook is the ultimate proof. If it's not on Facebook it didn't happen - unless there is a video on Youtube.

Mark could have shown in the proof if not in his Facebook, better still on TV, or a press conference.

I believe he has already burn the fake copy. In short, destroy the evident, and hope no body have a photocopy.

Mark was wrong. A copy of the fake was display by that fat toad look-a-like ex PT MP, on TV.

Which one?

[rubl]

No not a red shirt. Just have rose tinted glasses

If these lot had ANYTHING of substance on Abhisit they would have their red mouthpieces shouting from the roof tops. The fact they are regurgitating old news shows they have nothing.

I ask again are there ANY serving politicians that have ever served in the army due to conscription?

I believe not. If not how did they manage it.

Many MPs from all political parties including cabinet ministers, volunteered or were in other branches of service that satisfied national service requirements. It is the tie that binds so many of them with class friendships and loyalties. Current examples are Pracha Promnok, Minister of Justice, Defence Minister Suwannathat, Technology Minister Nakornthap, Deputy PM Sasiprapha etc.

They didnt volunteer. They got a job in the armed forces. Very. Very different.

Now back to the original.

Have ANY current politicians been drafted in to the army via the conscript method?

sent from my Wellcom A90+

And again I reply, that typically, serving cabinet ministers with national service records volunteered. Cabinet ministers have for the most part come from the upper middle and upper classes of Thai society. It was customary for the children of these social demographic groups to have volunteered at some point or to have joined a branch of the defence forces including the police as part of their career decisions. Are you aware that If you volunteer, depending upon one's educational status, the term of service can be reduced to 6 months? Also, if one is in what is ostensibly the cadet corps for 3 years while in high school, one is not conscripted since the national service requirement will have been met. If MPs and cabinet ministers already met their national service requirements, they would not be conscripted. Therefore your question is redundant.

"It was customary for the children of these social demographic groups to have volunteered at some point or to have joined a branch of the defence forces including the police as part of their career decisions."

Two sons of Dept. PM Pol. Captain Chalerm are a perfect example of this 'custom' as far as I remember

[thaicbr]

No not a red shirt. Just have rose tinted glasses

If these lot had ANYTHING of substance on Abhisit they would have their red mouthpieces shouting from the roof tops. The fact they are regurgitating old news shows they have nothing.

I ask again are there ANY serving politicians that have ever served in the army due to conscription?

I believe not. If not how did they manage it.

Many MPs from all political parties including cabinet ministers, volunteered or were in other branches of service that satisfied national service requirements. It is the tie that binds so many of them with class friendships and loyalties. Current examples are Pracha Promnok, Minister of Justice, Defence Minister Suwannathat, Technology Minister Nakornthap, Deputy PM Sasiprapha etc.

They didnt volunteer. They got a job in the armed forces. Very. Very different.

Now back to the original.

Have ANY current politicians been drafted in to the army via the conscript method?

sent from my Wellcom A90+

And again I reply, that typically, serving cabinet ministers with national service records volunteered. Cabinet ministers have for the most part come from the upper middle and upper classes of Thai society. It was customary for the children of these social demographic groups to have volunteered at some point or to have joined a branch of the defence forces including the police as part of their career decisions. Are you aware that If you volunteer, depending upon one's educational status, the term of service can be reduced to 6 months? Also, if one is in what is ostensibly the cadet corps for 3 years while in high school, one is not conscripted since the national service requirement will have been met. If MPs and cabinet ministers already met their national service requirements, they would not be conscripted. Therefore your question is redundant.

My question is NOT redundant as it was specific to conscription not career choice. Also I was the one that had already explained the cadet part many posts ago.

Volunteering would imply no money being sought were in fact they are paid. So a career decision.

Their career decisions are based on the buddy network.

Most if not all well to do families have a police man in the family it helps smooth things over if necessary.

Also with all of your comments in mind then Abhisit teaching at the Royal Military Academy also complies he did his service .

Sent from my GT-P1010 using Thaivisa Connect App

Edited July 24, 2012 by thaicbr

[geriatrickid]

My question is NOT redundant as it was specific to conscription not career choice. Also I was the one that had already explained the cadet part many posts ago.

Volunteering would imply no money being sought were in fact they are paid. So a career decision.

Their career decisions are based on the buddy network.

Most if not all well to do families have a police man in the family it helps smooth things over if necessary.

Also with all of your comments in mind then Abhisit teaching at the Royal Military Academy also complies he did his service .

How can someone be conscripted if they have already done their service?

In respect to the heroic Mr. Abhisit having "taught" at Royal Chulachomklao Military Academy in 1987, the court will decide if such a position excuses Mr. Abhisit's alleged failure to report for conscription when he reached the age of 21 in 1985. And therein lies the legal issue. If one is required to report for conspriction and does not, does a cushy job 2 years later excuse the non-reporting? Do you think it does?

[Reasonableman]

"conspriction" OUCH!!

GH, your admirable high-mindedness and lack of bias and vindictiveness on this issue are atypically refreshing. I think we should all try to avoid "conspriction", especially if we wish to start a family some time in the future.

Edited July 24, 2012 by Reasonableman

[thaicbr]

My question is NOT redundant as it was specific to conscription not career choice. Also I was the one that had already explained the cadet part many posts ago.

Volunteering would imply no money being sought were in fact they are paid. So a career decision.

Their career decisions are based on the buddy network.

Most if not all well to do families have a police man in the family it helps smooth things over if necessary.

Also with all of your comments in mind then Abhisit teaching at the Royal Military Academy also complies he did his service .

How can someone be conscripted if they have already done their service?

In respect to the heroic Mr. Abhisit having "taught" at Royal Chulachomklao Military Academy in 1987, the court will decide if such a position excuses Mr. Abhisit's alleged failure to report for conscription when he reached the age of 21 in 1985. And therein lies the legal issue. If one is required to report for conspriction and does not, does a cushy job 2 years later excuse the non-reporting? Do you think it does?

Again that's not what was asked and you know it. You are very good at muddying things.

as for his cushy service what would you consider the others do in their 6 months. The facts may be that service has been done and the correct paperwork was given to the correct department at the Thai embassy in the Uk as stated. End of the matter.

sent from my Wellcom A90+

Edited July 24, 2012 by thaicbr

[Puccini]

How can someone be conscripted if they have already done their service?

In respect to the heroic Mr. Abhisit having "taught" at Royal Chulachomklao Military Academy in 1987, the court will decide if such a position excuses Mr. Abhisit's alleged failure to report for conscription when he reached the age of 21 in 1985. And therein lies the legal issue. If one is required to report for conspriction and does not, does a cushy job 2 years later excuse the non-reporting? Do you think it does?

Now, this is interesting. I was wondering when Abhisit applied for the job of a lecturer at the Chulachomklao Royal Military Academy, as the date is not shown in his biography, and I thank you for the answer. He was working in that job in 1987, which means that he applied for it in 1987 or earlier.

According to the news article in the OP, the Defense Ministry said that with the application for that job Abhisit submitted a duplicate conscription certificate stating that "he was exempted from military service and was enlisted as a reserve officer on April 8, 1988"

Look at the time line. In 1987, or earlier, Abhisit submitted a document certifying an event that happened in 1988. Interesting, isn't it?

[Puccini]

Now, did Abhisit knowingly use a fake document.........?

I believe so, if not, he would have posted the document on his Facebook, instead of conveniently say "Oooops....., I lost it for a second time".

Was it reported somewhere in the press that Abhisit said he also lost the duplicate conscription certificate? The news article in the OP says this:

Defence Minister ACM Sukampol Suwannathat has set up a fact-finding team on the matter. The Chulachomklao Royal Military Academy later sent documents relating to Abhisit's application for the job to the probe team but that no original Sor Dor 9 document was found.

What is it with this conscription certificate? Is it an original document that a man is given on the day of his conscription, and is it an important document, like for example the original birth certificate, that he should make sure to keep for the rest of his life? But if this were so, why would the Academy have looked for the original, respectively the original of the duplicate certificate, in the documents Abhisit submitted with his job application?

[Maestro]

I have deleted an off-topic post about something that allegedly happened in 2010 and the replies to it.

[chotthee]

Now, did Abhisit knowingly use a fake document.........?

I believe so, if not, he would have posted the document on his Facebook, instead of conveniently say "Oooops....., I lost it for a second time".

Was it reported somewhere in the press that Abhisit said he also lost the duplicate conscription certificate? The news article in the OP says this:

Defence Minister ACM Sukampol Suwannathat has set up a fact-finding team on the matter. The Chulachomklao Royal Military Academy later sent documents relating to Abhisit's application for the job to the probe team but that no original Sor Dor 9 document was found.

What is it with this conscription certificate? Is it an original document that a man is given on the day of his conscription, and is it an important document, like for example the original birth certificate, that he should make sure to keep for the rest of his life? But if this were so, why would the Academy have looked for the original, respectively the original of the duplicate certificate, in the documents Abhisit submitted with his job application?

The fake docs would have been ashes by now.

You know burn by who.