Thaksin Gets Ready For Two-Week Us Visit

[55Jay]

OK Jim/Ricardo, and thanks also rub'l for refreshing my mem, I think I got hung up the bit before the legal/court part.

Intent was the US should not legitimize the coup, junta, and any action that came from that unstable period, by not giving T a visa.

Anyway, others here said it better and I really don't give two farts about Thai politics, what am I even doing here, back to bbq.

J

PS: Uncle T, have a good visit to Did-knee-lan.

[rijb]

I'm in the US right now. Please post his itinerary. I will take him into custody and deliver him the The world court in The Hague myself for his crimes against humanity.

He's going to Disneyland. Why don't you wait for him in Fantasyland...

[SuneeTH]

It is so obvious that it is a trap.

Once he landed, the USA will arrest the fugitive, and awaiting jet will zoom him back to U-Tapao airport for the Thai Army. Then a coup will remove her sister, and put Mark back in power.

[chiang mai]

I'm thinking of the comparison between Mr T and say Gary Mckinnon's extradition from the UK to the US - Mr T is a convicted criminal who was the subject of an internatonal warrant, now all of a sudden he's a wlecome visitor to the US. The Uk on the otherhand seems willing to deport its citizens to the US on request, simply on the basis of the US asking them to do so, without the benefit of trial beforehand, it all seems FUBAR'd to me.

[Mosha]

I'm thinking of the comparison between Mr T and say Gary Mckinnon's extradition from the UK to the US - Mr T is a convicted criminal who was the subject of an internatonal warrant, now all of a sudden he's a wlecome visitor to the US. The Uk on the otherhand seems willing to deport its citizens to the US on request, simply on the basis of the US asking them to do so, without the benefit of trial beforehand, it all seems FUBAR'd to me.

I may be wrong, but I think the one sided treaty allows US Federal agents to actually turn up and carry out an arrest.

[rixalex]

Letting Thaksin enter is not taking a side provided the laws regarding entry are applied.

Laws regarding entry are very clear on the matter of convicted criminals on the run. In fact you need not be on the run. Just having a conviction for which punishment has been served, is sufficient to make access problematic.

If Thaksin gets access to the US, it will have nothing to do with American Immigration authorities sitting down and examining all the evidence available with regards him and his conviction, and them deciding that they don't agree with the Thai judiciary and therefore welcoming him - if this was the way American Immigration authorities worked, why then did they not sit down after Thaksin was ridiculously absolved from having hidden his assets that were placed in bank accounts of maids, drivers and gardeners, and decide that because they didn't agree with the Thai judiciary, he wasn't welcome? - it will rather have everything to do with the current political clout that Thaksin carries and the US's desire to not ruffle any feathers with those in power in Bangkok. It's called international diplomacy, and it is a very fickle business often without much consideration for rights and wrongs. Just consideration for what might further a respective countries own interests. Sad but true.

[Credo]

Even people who are on a terrorist watch-list can be admitted to the US. It requires a waiver, but members of Hamas, for example, can be admitted. Nelson Mandela also fell into that category.

A former PM of a country would generally be admitted, especially if there is no objection from his home country. In this case, I very much doubt that the present gov't would object.

[ttelise]

Letting Thaksin enter is not taking a side provided the laws regarding entry are applied.

Laws regarding entry are very clear on the matter of convicted criminals on the run. In fact you need not be on the run. Just having a conviction for which punishment has been served, is sufficient to make access problematic.

If Thaksin gets access to the US, it will have nothing to do with American Immigration authorities sitting down and examining all the evidence available with regards him and his conviction, and them deciding that they don't agree with the Thai judiciary and therefore welcoming him - if this was the way American Immigration authorities worked, why then did they not sit down after Thaksin was ridiculously absolved from having hidden his assets that were placed in bank accounts of maids, drivers and gardeners, and decide that because they didn't agree with the Thai judiciary, he wasn't welcome? - it will rather have everything to do with the current political clout that Thaksin carries and the US's desire to not ruffle any feathers with those in power in Bangkok. It's called international diplomacy, and it is a very fickle business often without much consideration for rights and wrongs. Just consideration for what might further a respective countries own interests. Sad but true.

After all that, still not responsive to question or issue. Is there a law prohibiting US from granting a Visa to someone who has an outstanding conviction in another country.

[ttelise]

Even people who are on a terrorist watch-list can be admitted to the US. It requires a waiver, but members of Hamas, for example, can be admitted. Nelson Mandela also fell into that category.

A former PM of a country would generally be admitted, especially if there is no objection from his home country. In this case, I very much doubt that the present gov't would object.

My understanding.

[rixalex]

Letting Thaksin enter is not taking a side provided the laws regarding entry are applied.

Laws regarding entry are very clear on the matter of convicted criminals on the run. In fact you need not be on the run. Just having a conviction for which punishment has been served, is sufficient to make access problematic.

If Thaksin gets access to the US, it will have nothing to do with American Immigration authorities sitting down and examining all the evidence available with regards him and his conviction, and them deciding that they don't agree with the Thai judiciary and therefore welcoming him - if this was the way American Immigration authorities worked, why then did they not sit down after Thaksin was ridiculously absolved from having hidden his assets that were placed in bank accounts of maids, drivers and gardeners, and decide that because they didn't agree with the Thai judiciary, he wasn't welcome? - it will rather have everything to do with the current political clout that Thaksin carries and the US's desire to not ruffle any feathers with those in power in Bangkok. It's called international diplomacy, and it is a very fickle business often without much consideration for rights and wrongs. Just consideration for what might further a respective countries own interests. Sad but true.

After all that, still not responsive to question or issue. Is there a law prohibiting US from granting a Visa to someone who has an outstanding conviction in another country.

I don't believe there is such a law but i do believe that in "normal" circumstances, an applicant with an outstanding conviction would not stand a snowflake in hell's chance of being granted a visa. Exceptions for those with financial / political "muscle" are obviously made - there's a long list of examples as evidence of that. Guess it comes down to whether or not you think that that is the correct way of doing things: one rule for the plebs, another rule for the VIPs. Naive i guess to expect otherwise. Doesn't mean you have to agree with it.

P.S. In my earlier post above, i mis-spoke in saying Laws regarding entry are very clear on the matter of convicted criminals on the run. Should have said, visa guidelines and stated visa requirements are very clear on the matter of convicted criminals on the run. Apologies.

Edited August 4, 2012 by rixalex

[yeeowww]

Another thought is that Thaksin wants to be extradited! Think of it. Thaksin goes to the USA, the Thai Government request his extradition. He is arrested, no contest from his lawyers and so is swiftly extradited back to his homeland. A process the Dems cannot complain about or prevent as it is legal. He arrives in Thailand, lodges an appeal and posts 10 million baht bail. He is then out, in Thailand, free to attend heroic rallies and whip the reds up in to such a frenzy that before you know it, case dropped and he claims his political throne. Sweet really, I bet his villa in Dubai is just full of boxes and packing cases already!

Your "logic" confounds me... Being extradited is but a coward's way of arriving back. He would come off as much more of a confident and stoic individual if he were to just fly back of his own accord to face the music. The Dems wouldn't oppose that either. He would then just as well arrive in Thailand, lodge an appeal, post 10 million baht bail and be free to walk. But then... we all know that Thaksin is but a coward.

[yeeowww]

Mr. T is a corrupt and ruthless politician. But, he is a lot smarter than the corrupt politicians currently in power. He'll be back. And you little girls who still believe in black and white need to go home.

What on earth are you talking about!??? He IS the head of corrupt politicians currently in power! Or haven't you heard? His dim-wit of a "clone" sister is the PM and he himself has hand picked and appointed officers to various seats and capacities throughout. And after more than a year, still nothing is getting done.

Edited August 4, 2012 by yeeowww

[rijb]

Let me dumb it down for you. The context is about Mr. T going to the U.S. You quoted just part of my post.

[GentlemanJim]

Another thought is that Thaksin wants to be extradited! Think of it. Thaksin goes to the USA, the Thai Government request his extradition. He is arrested, no contest from his lawyers and so is swiftly extradited back to his homeland. A process the Dems cannot complain about or prevent as it is legal. He arrives in Thailand, lodges an appeal and posts 10 million baht bail. He is then out, in Thailand, free to attend heroic rallies and whip the reds up in to such a frenzy that before you know it, case dropped and he claims his political throne. Sweet really, I bet his villa in Dubai is just full of boxes and packing cases already!

Your "logic" confounds me... Being extradited is but a coward's way of arriving back. He would come off as much more of a confident and stoic individual if he were to just fly back of his own accord to face the music. The Dems wouldn't oppose that either. He would then just as well arrive in Thailand, lodge an appeal, post 10 million baht bail and be free to walk. But then... we all know that Thaksin is but a coward.

I think it is your logic that is confounding ! Firstly you say "Being extradited is but a coward's way of arriving back." and then give your opinion on what he should do, then you finally say "But then... we all know that Thaksin is but a coward." ????

Flying back of his own accord is 'Giving up' in the eyes of the reds. Being extradited gives his folklore status even greater kudos. Think about it.

[Baerboxer]

I thought the US ha tightened its already quite tough visa/ entry system....unless of course you're a convicted fugitive. What a damned hypocritical disgrace....and that goes for the UK too, if the big T really did get in as alleged. Corrupt bar stewards, the lot of them.

Couldn't agree more. The current US and UK governments are quick to condem any country's leader(s) who don't suit them. But, a fugitive on the run, who happens to be mega rich, and still calling the shots in his own country, well it's the welcome mat. Maybe Obama and Cameron will both "come out" and recognise him as the Thai government in exile. Really disappointing to see such high hypocracy from two formerly great countries - just shows the depths they're sinking to.

Edited August 4, 2012 by Baerboxer

[rixalex]

I thought the US ha tightened its already quite tough visa/ entry system....unless of course you're a convicted fugitive. What a damned hypocritical disgrace....and that goes for the UK too, if the big T really did get in as alleged. Corrupt bar stewards, the lot of them.

Couldn't agree more. The current US and UK governments are quick to condem any country's leader(s) who don't suit them. But, a fugitive on the run, who happens to be mega rich, and still calling the shots in his own country, well it's the welcome mat. Maybe Obama and Cameron will both "come out" and recognise him as the Thai government in exile. Really disappointing to see such high hypocracy from two formerly great countries - just shows the depths they're sinking to.

Completely agree, but whether they have recently sunk, or whether they have always been that way, is i would suggest, a matter of debate.

[siampolee]

The New Colossus

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,

With conquering limbs astride from land to land;

Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand

A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame

Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name

Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand

Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command

The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.

"Keep ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she

With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,

Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,

The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.

Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,

I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

I do think that those people who it is claimed have granted an entry visa to Thaksin have gone over the top a bit in doing so.

Their interpretation of the above passage is to my mind somewhat more liberal than it should be in more ways than one .

There is of course that fact that we must wait and see if Thaksin does actually enter America as a free man and then subsequently exits America as a free man too !!

Edited August 4, 2012 by siampolee

[Credo]

I don't think he is immigrating to the U.S.

[cdnski12]

Thaksin will definitely meet up with the wacky Morman Romney. "Birds of a feather flock together"!

[Jingthing]

Thaksin will definitely meet up with the wacky Morman Romney. "Birds of a feather flock together"!

I think not.

[Keesters]

Thailand, specifically Pattaya & Phuket, has so often been said to be a haven for international criminals. It could be said that this is perhaps the only successful HUB that Thailand has ever been able to create. Is the United States trying to topple Thailand from that position? Allowing the leader of one of Thailand's most corrupt families onto its shores maybe they are. The U.S. cannot ignore and pretend they don't know that Thaksin is a wanted criminal on the run and that he has a 2 year jail sentance waiting to be served. Should the U.S. allow free passage for Thaksin to and from their land then that is pretty much the same as the U.S. raising the middle finger to Thailand's justice system.

[Moruya]

What is interesting is the case just filed with the ICC for Thaksin's "war on drugs" and the thousands of deaths.

Given that he is in exile and a fugitive from justice in his own country, this could well be a case that is taken up by them.

[ttelise]

Thailand, specifically Pattaya & Phuket, has so often been said to be a haven for international criminals. It could be said that this is perhaps the only successful HUB that Thailand has ever been able to create. Is the United States trying to topple Thailand from that position? Allowing the leader of one of Thailand's most corrupt families onto its shores maybe they are. The U.S. cannot ignore and pretend they don't know that Thaksin is a wanted criminal on the run and that he has a 2 year jail sentance waiting to be served. Should the U.S. allow free passage for Thaksin to and from their land then that is pretty much the same as the U.S. raising the middle finger to Thailand's justice system.

A 2 year sentence is hardly war crime status and perhaps the US views the conviction a politically motivated injustice that is inconsistent with the want of the majority of Thais. Perhaps US thinks the Yhai court system is a disgrace and lacks due process. Perhaps the US feels that corrupt and hypocritical Thai politicians use the Court system to manipulate the political landscape and Thaksin was simply caught up in this political machinery. Russian, Chinese and Middle Eastern have ordered atrocities yet I bet Rhailand would welcome visits from those leaders with open arms. Thaksin really is not that bad when comparared to leaders from many countries you guys seem to hold in such high regard.

[Moruya]

Thailand, specifically Pattaya & Phuket, has so often been said to be a haven for international criminals. It could be said that this is perhaps the only successful HUB that Thailand has ever been able to create. Is the United States trying to topple Thailand from that position? Allowing the leader of one of Thailand's most corrupt families onto its shores maybe they are. The U.S. cannot ignore and pretend they don't know that Thaksin is a wanted criminal on the run and that he has a 2 year jail sentance waiting to be served. Should the U.S. allow free passage for Thaksin to and from their land then that is pretty much the same as the U.S. raising the middle finger to Thailand's justice system.

A 2 year sentence is hardly war crime status and perhaps the US views the conviction a politically motivated injustice that is inconsistent with the want of the majority of Thais. Perhaps US thinks the Yhai court system is a disgrace and lacks due process. Perhaps the US feels that corrupt and hypocritical Thai politicians use the Court system to manipulate the political landscape and Thaksin was simply caught up in this political machinery. Russian, Chinese and Middle Eastern have ordered atrocities yet I bet Rhailand would welcome visits from those leaders with open arms. Thaksin really is not that bad when comparared to leaders from many countries you guys seem to hold in such high regard.

I'm not familiar with either Rhailand or the Yhai court but the 2,500 plus dead in Thaksin's war on drugs as well as his atrocities in the south may well have earned him some attention not to mention certain contracts that were broken at great expense to US business interests.

[OriginalPoster]

Thailand, specifically Pattaya & Phuket, has so often been said to be a haven for international criminals. It could be said that this is perhaps the only successful HUB that Thailand has ever been able to create. Is the United States trying to topple Thailand from that position? Allowing the leader of one of Thailand's most corrupt families onto its shores maybe they are. The U.S. cannot ignore and pretend they don't know that Thaksin is a wanted criminal on the run and that he has a 2 year jail sentance waiting to be served. Should the U.S. allow free passage for Thaksin to and from their land then that is pretty much the same as the U.S. raising the middle finger to Thailand's justice system.

A 2 year sentence is hardly war crime status and perhaps the US views the conviction a politically motivated injustice that is inconsistent with the want of the majority of Thais. Perhaps US thinks the Yhai court system is a disgrace and lacks due process. Perhaps the US feels that corrupt and hypocritical Thai politicians use the Court system to manipulate the political landscape and Thaksin was simply caught up in this political machinery. Russian, Chinese and Middle Eastern have ordered atrocities yet I bet Rhailand would welcome visits from those leaders with open arms. Thaksin really is not that bad when comparared to leaders from many countries you guys seem to hold in such high regard.

I'm not familiar with either Rhailand or the Yhai court but the 2,500 plus dead in Thaksin's war on drugs as well as his atrocities in the south may well have earned him some attention not to mention certain contracts that were broken at great expense to US business interests.

Taksin's convictions were not related to deaths in the war on drugs and atrocities in the south.

[rixalex]

Thailand, specifically Pattaya & Phuket, has so often been said to be a haven for international criminals. It could be said that this is perhaps the only successful HUB that Thailand has ever been able to create. Is the United States trying to topple Thailand from that position? Allowing the leader of one of Thailand's most corrupt families onto its shores maybe they are. The U.S. cannot ignore and pretend they don't know that Thaksin is a wanted criminal on the run and that he has a 2 year jail sentance waiting to be served. Should the U.S. allow free passage for Thaksin to and from their land then that is pretty much the same as the U.S. raising the middle finger to Thailand's justice system.

A 2 year sentence is hardly war crime status and perhaps the US views the conviction a politically motivated injustice that is inconsistent with the want of the majority of Thais. Perhaps US thinks the Yhai court system is a disgrace and lacks due process. Perhaps the US feels that corrupt and hypocritical Thai politicians use the Court system to manipulate the political landscape and Thaksin was simply caught up in this political machinery. Russian, Chinese and Middle Eastern have ordered atrocities yet I bet Rhailand would welcome visits from those leaders with open arms. Thaksin really is not that bad when comparared to leaders from many countries you guys seem to hold in such high regard.

This has nothing to do with how the US feels about Thaksin's conviction, much as red sympathisers are desperate to suggest it does. If the US were in the habit of examining court cases and coming to their own conclusions, it's hard to imagine they would have come to any other conclusion than guilty as sin with regards Thaksin's previous court case involving hidden assets, placed in bank accounts of various menial staff under his employment, that he was ridiculously deemed innocent of.

US is simply employing tactics of international diplomacy. It's a fickle beast. Right now Thaksin has political as well of course as financial clout. This is what is opening doors for him. The moment Thaksin's party gets voted out, should that day come, i guarantee you doors will slowly start shutting, just as they did when his party was not in power.

Bottom line is, don't look to what countries give visas as evidence of guilt or innocence. Look rather at evidence widely and publicly available from the court case. Thaksin broke the law, and he doesn't even deny it. Thaksin's lawyers attempted to bribe the judges, he doesn't deny that either. But as with most important people around these parts, they live in world where they think law should not apply to them.

Edited August 5, 2012 by rixalex

[slapout]

The flavor or the month seems to be the travel plans of Thaksin and little sister, thow in assignments for The deputy prime minister/family, a few threats toward the legal system, and charges of corruption within every populist vote buying idea concieved, proposed and thought of welcome to the land of make believe.

[phetaroi]

Thaksin visiting the US may be big news in Thailand, but it's no news here in the States. It's a rare American who even knows who he is. Or cares.

[bendejo]

The US does not shy away from supporting/installing despicable tyrants when it suits their needs.

A long history of this since the end of WWII.

I think there will be a major military conflict in this part of the world soon, probably by the end of the decade. T is just the type of guy they usually support.

[Moruya]

Thailand, specifically Pattaya & Phuket, has so often been said to be a haven for international criminals. It could be said that this is perhaps the only successful HUB that Thailand has ever been able to create. Is the United States trying to topple Thailand from that position? Allowing the leader of one of Thailand's most corrupt families onto its shores maybe they are. The U.S. cannot ignore and pretend they don't know that Thaksin is a wanted criminal on the run and that he has a 2 year jail sentance waiting to be served. Should the U.S. allow free passage for Thaksin to and from their land then that is pretty much the same as the U.S. raising the middle finger to Thailand's justice system.

A 2 year sentence is hardly war crime status and perhaps the US views the conviction a politically motivated injustice that is inconsistent with the want of the majority of Thais. Perhaps US thinks the Yhai court system is a disgrace and lacks due process. Perhaps the US feels that corrupt and hypocritical Thai politicians use the Court system to manipulate the political landscape and Thaksin was simply caught up in this political machinery. Russian, Chinese and Middle Eastern have ordered atrocities yet I bet Rhailand would welcome visits from those leaders with open arms. Thaksin really is not that bad when comparared to leaders from many countries you guys seem to hold in such high regard.

I'm not familiar with either Rhailand or the Yhai court but the 2,500 plus dead in Thaksin's war on drugs as well as his atrocities in the south may well have earned him some attention not to mention certain contracts that were broken at great expense to US business interests.

Taksin's convictions were not related to deaths in the war on drugs and atrocities in the south.

Its not just convictions - he also has several charges against him including terrorism and possibly now crimes against humanity.