Double Pricing!

[Jingthing]

Only got through page 4...

For a tourist town and country, how about the word opportunistic instead of just racism, discrimination, nationalism, etc.

Elements of all involved but not one fits exactly on its own.

Not needed. Treating people differently only because of racial appearance is racist by definition. Racism can be mild or severe. Lynching is severe. 10 baht more at the food stand is mild.

[brit1984]

"Anyway, double pricing in Thailand is not based on race but residence or (in extreme cases) nationality."

Sorry that just simply isnt true. As I mentioned before in the thread I know of many examples where non Thai nationals/non residents pay Thai prices without any stress or checks at all and have done for years. Anything from vegetables at a market stall through to the Grand Palace in BKK. My freind here who is Singaporean has always paid Thai prices because he looks Thai and speaks it. My best freind's girlfreind is from Loas. She lives here as a Thai. Infact when they go somewhere he pays the farang price and she walks in as though she is Thai. My wife's freind is also from Loas, has never paid a farang price in her life and actually refers to herself as Thai and we are the foreigners. The only difference between her and a Thai is she goes for visa runs. I was speaking to another guy here who is a Chinese Malaysian, he looks and speaks Thai. Again same story, lived in Hat Yai for years, even worked....lol. Even worked driving a tuk tuk (illegally of course). Never paid more for anything............why (sorry if it seems im trying to ram this home) BECAUSE HE LOOKS THAI. Not because he flashed a Thai ID card everyday or showed a residency card or form but because he looks the part. If I started driving a tuk tuk around Hat Yai how long would I last before being locked up and paying huge somes of money, i reckon 1 hour. He drove a tuk tuk in Hat Yai for 3 years before he left for Malaysia again. My point is he was regarded as a Thai because he looked like it and thus treated the same.

There is also a really nice food stall that I got my food from for months in Pattaya, second road. One day I sent my wife, i was sick. It was cheaper, only 10 baht....I didnt care about the 10 baht but all that time they had been charging me more for food. Did they check if she was a resident, of course bloody not....lol. Why did I pay more.......(again I am sorry) BECAUSE I AM WHITE. There are other examples and I could go on. If double charging was on residency then these examples would not exist, simple as that for me.

Some tasks I do around Pattaya I generally ask my wife to do it because of this double pricing based on race. For example we have had two punctures on the motorbike recently. The first one I took to repair, 200 baht. 2 weeks later my wife went to do the second one in the same shop 150 baht. Do you think they stood there and asked for my work permit to prove I am not a tourist.....lol.....they dont care. Ofcourse not, it was by instinct that they related my race to wealth and a certain status and thus the increased price. Same when I go to the market, I tell my wife what we need and she buys it. I have tested it, we save over 200 baht on a market run if she shops and not me.

There is also a really nice food stall that I got my food from for months. One day I sent my wife, i was sick. It was cheaper, only 5 baht....I didnt care about the 5 baht but all that time they had been charging me more. Did they check if she was a resident, of course bloody not. Why did she pay less.... I could reel off so many other examples and I am sure others could.

Where I am now is a great example....Singapore. Been here for 2 months now. Havent paid a single cent extra for anything since I have been here. I have done nearly every day to day activity you can think of for someone that lives somewhere and never been charged a single cent extra or even treated differently in any way.

To me the principle, point and question of this whole thread is BY INSTINCT do Thai people want to charge western looking people more for things because there is a status and wealth attached to their race. I think the answer is yes. In any half decent country would this be racism...in my opinion..yes !! Even if not racism then at the very least the practice would be regarded as unethical and not encouraged.

The examples you provide are more of lazy sales assistants not checking the ID / passport of every customer to see if they are Thai (rather than racist price policy per se).

Such checks would be impractical and rather pointless given that nearly all the customers who look Thai are Thai and nearly all the customers who don't look Thai are not Thai.

Even if a Thai (who doesn't look Thai) was initially not offered the discount price, I am sure this would be forthcoming on presentation of Thai ID / passport.

Singapore is not relevant as a comparison because as we have explained the main reason many businesses in Thailand charge lower prices for Thais is that they have lower average income / spending power than tourists, where as in Singapore this is not the case so there is no economic reason to charge the locals lower prices.

Sent from iPhone; please forgive any typos or violations of forum rules

[Kananga]

Where I am now is a great example....Singapore. Been here for 2 months now. Havent paid a single cent extra for anything since I have been here. I have done nearly every day to day activity you can think of for someone that lives somewhere and never been charged a single cent extra or even treated differently in any way.

It still happens in Singapore although not 'officially'. Some taxi drivers will still take you the long way round if they think you are unfamiliar, plumbers, aircon maintenance men etc will often quote a higher price to foreigners as there is still a perception they are wealthier so you will often pay a higher price than the locals. However it is not as systematic as Thailand and you could even debate it isnt racism and just opportunistic entrepreneurialism, but dont kid yourself that it doesnt happen.

When you are settled pick up a few words of Hokkien, you'll be surprised what is said about the unsuspecting foreigner and the underlying resentment towards them.

But singaporeans are as timid as mice so you dont need to worry about them wielding baseball bats or any of the other aggressive behaviour the Thai in this situation is guilty of.

Edited August 16, 2012 by Rimmer

[brit1984]

Only got through page 4...

For a tourist town and country, how about the word opportunistic instead of just racism, discrimination, nationalism, etc.

Elements of all involved but not one fits exactly on its own.

Not needed. Treating people differently only because of racial appearance is racist by definition. Racism can be mild or severe. Lynching is severe. 10 baht more at the food stand is mild.

Definitions of racisms vary but I agree some (such as yours) are so open as to make the concept of racism almost meaningless.

For example, your definition of racism would include saying hello and shaking hands with a white guy you meet in Thailand, rather than giving a wai and saying sawadee krap (just because you assume he is not Thai based on the colour of his skin).

People who have experienced real racism (e.g. physical or verbal abuse, social exclusion, inequality of education or career opportunities, etc) would likely find the way you use the term racism rather ridiculous.

Sent from iPhone; please forgive any typos or violations of forum rules

[Jayman]

Only got through page 4...

For a tourist town and country, how about the word opportunistic instead of just racism, discrimination, nationalism, etc.

Elements of all involved but not one fits exactly on its own.

Not needed. Treating people differently only because of racial appearance is racist by definition. Racism can be mild or severe. Lynching is severe. 10 baht more at the food stand is mild.

Definitions of racisms vary but I agree some (such as yours) are so open as to make the concept of racism almost meaningless.

For example, your definition of racism would include saying hello and shaking hands with a white guy you meet in Thailand, rather than giving a wai and saying sawadee krap (just because you assume he is not Thai based on the colour of his skin).

People who have experienced real racism (e.g. physical or verbal abuse, social exclusion, inequality of education or career opportunities, etc) would likely find the way you use the term racism rather ridiculous.

Sent from iPhone; please forgive any typos or violations of forum rules

What do you consider "real" racism. I'm a jew, do you think I have experienced any "real" racism in my lifetime?

[brit1984]

Only got through page 4...

For a tourist town and country, how about the word opportunistic instead of just racism, discrimination, nationalism, etc.

Elements of all involved but not one fits exactly on its own.

Not needed. Treating people differently only because of racial appearance is racist by definition. Racism can be mild or severe. Lynching is severe. 10 baht more at the food stand is mild.

Definitions of racisms vary but I agree some (such as yours) are so open as to make the concept of racism almost meaningless.

For example, your definition of racism would include saying hello and shaking hands with a white guy you meet in Thailand, rather than giving a wai and saying sawadee krap (just because you assume he is not Thai based on the colour of his skin).

People who have experienced real racism (e.g. physical or verbal abuse, social exclusion, inequality of education or career opportunities, etc) would likely find the way you use the term racism rather ridiculous.

Sent from iPhone; please forgive any typos or violations of forum rules

What do you consider "real" racism. I'm a jew, do you think I have experienced any "real" racism in my lifetime?

I don't know, you tell me, although I don't understand the relevance of your religion.

Sent from iPhone; please forgive any typos or violations of forum rules

[Barack]

Only got through page 4...

For a tourist town and country, how about the word opportunistic instead of just racism, discrimination, nationalism, etc.

Elements of all involved but not one fits exactly on its own.

Not needed. Treating people differently only because of racial appearance is racist by definition. Racism can be mild or severe. Lynching is severe. 10 baht more at the food stand is mild.

....

People who have experienced real racism (e.g. physical or verbal abuse, social exclusion, inequality of education or career opportunities, etc) would likely find the way you use the term racism rather ridiculous.

Sent from iPhone; please forgive any typos or violations of forum rules

Well said.

[Jayman]

Not needed. Treating people differently only because of racial appearance is racist by definition. Racism can be mild or severe. Lynching is severe. 10 baht more at the food stand is mild.

Definitions of racisms vary but I agree some (such as yours) are so open as to make the concept of racism almost meaningless.

For example, your definition of racism would include saying hello and shaking hands with a white guy you meet in Thailand, rather than giving a wai and saying sawadee krap (just because you assume he is not Thai based on the colour of his skin).

People who have experienced real racism (e.g. physical or verbal abuse, social exclusion, inequality of education or career opportunities, etc) would likely find the way you use the term racism rather ridiculous.

Sent from iPhone; please forgive any typos or violations of forum rules

What do you consider "real" racism. I'm a jew, do you think I have experienced any "real" racism in my lifetime?

I don't know, you tell me, although I don't understand the relevance of your religion.

Sent from iPhone; please forgive any typos or violations of forum rules

I have definitely experienced "real" racism and I don't find the term racism used in this thread ridiculous.

And jews are a race of ppl.. not just a religion.

I also think you've made it quite clear by your comment "although I don't understand the relevance of your religion" that you have no clue what racism is.

Edited August 16, 2012 by Jayman

[Jingthing]

OK, we're going off topic, but Jewish is not a race. It is a religion, yes, and also (multiple) ethnic groups comprising the Jewish people. Ethnic groups (and also tribes) are not the same thing as race. However, antisemitism IS classified as racism because people think Jews are a race (which they are not). Compare to homophobia which is similar to antisemitism in many ways. Homophobia can't be racism because people don't think gay is a race.

On a more macro level, modern anthropology totally rejects the idea of race in the first place. But again as science is way ahead of almost all the public's social attitudes, when people hate "black people" they are definitely being racist even though "black" is NOT a race. Even most non-racists still believe black IS a race.

As far as definitions of racism, is it that hard for y'all to deal with a COMPLEX concept? That's why we have ADJECTIVES. For example, again, virulent racism vs. trivial racism. There is also, and it is also REAL, positive racism. For example, people thinking a group is better at something and then meeting an individual from that group and making the idiotic assumption that the individual they are meeting is going to be better at that stereotypical thing.

Edited August 16, 2012 by Jingthing

[Kananga]

OK, we're going off topic, but Jewish is not a race. It is a religion, yes, and also (multiple) ethnic groups comprising the Jewish people. Ethnic groups (and also tribes) are not the same thing as race. However, antisemitism IS classified as racism because people think Jews are a race (which they are not). Compare to homophobia which is similar to antisemitism in many ways. Homophobia can't be racism because people don't think gay is a race.

On a more macro level, modern anthropology totally rejects the idea of race in the first place. But again as science is way ahead of almost all the public's social attitudes, when people hate "black people" they are definitely being racist even though "black" is NOT a race. Even most non-racists still believe black IS a race.

As far as definitions of racism, is it that hard for y'all to deal with a COMPLEX concept? That's why we have ADJECTIVES. For example, again, virulent racism vs. trivial racism. There is also, and it is also REAL, positive racism. For example, people thinking a group is better at something and then meeting an individual from that group and making the idiotic assumption that the individual they are meeting is going to be better at that stereotypical thing.

White Men Can't Jump is a fine example. Imagine if a movie came out called Black Men Can't Swim?

[Rimmer]

As JT says were are getting off topic, lets end that direction now please

[Kalbo]

"Anyway, double pricing in Thailand is not based on race but residence or (in extreme cases) nationality."

Sorry that just simply isnt true. As I mentioned before in the thread I know of many examples where non Thai nationals/non residents pay Thai prices without any stress or checks at all and have done for years. Anything from vegetables at a market stall through to the Grand Palace in BKK. My freind here who is Singaporean has always paid Thai prices because he looks Thai and speaks it. My best freind's girlfreind is from Loas. She lives here as a Thai. Infact when they go somewhere he pays the farang price and she walks in as though she is Thai. My wife's freind is also from Loas, has never paid a farang price in her life and actually refers to herself as Thai and we are the foreigners. The only difference between her and a Thai is she goes for visa runs. I was speaking to another guy here who is a Chinese Malaysian, he looks and speaks Thai. Again same story, lived in Hat Yai for years, even worked....lol. Even worked driving a tuk tuk (illegally of course). Never paid more for anything............why (sorry if it seems im trying to ram this home) BECAUSE HE LOOKS THAI. Not because he flashed a Thai ID card everyday or showed a residency card or form but because he looks the part. If I started driving a tuk tuk around Hat Yai how long would I last before being locked up and paying huge somes of money, i reckon 1 hour. He drove a tuk tuk in Hat Yai for 3 years before he left for Malaysia again. My point is he was regarded as a Thai because he looked like it and thus treated the same.

There is also a really nice food stall that I got my food from for months in Pattaya, second road. One day I sent my wife, i was sick. It was cheaper, only 10 baht....I didnt care about the 10 baht but all that time they had been charging me more for food. Did they check if she was a resident, of course bloody not....lol. Why did I pay more.......(again I am sorry) BECAUSE I AM WHITE. There are other examples and I could go on. If double charging was on residency then these examples would not exist, simple as that for me.

Some tasks I do around Pattaya I generally ask my wife to do it because of this double pricing based on race. For example we have had two punctures on the motorbike recently. The first one I took to repair, 200 baht. 2 weeks later my wife went to do the second one in the same shop 150 baht. Do you think they stood there and asked for my work permit to prove I am not a tourist.....lol.....they dont care. Ofcourse not, it was by instinct that they related my race to wealth and a certain status and thus the increased price. Same when I go to the market, I tell my wife what we need and she buys it. I have tested it, we save over 200 baht on a market run if she shops and not me.

There is also a really nice food stall that I got my food from for months. One day I sent my wife, i was sick. It was cheaper, only 5 baht....I didnt care about the 5 baht but all that time they had been charging me more. Did they check if she was a resident, of course bloody not. Why did she pay less.... I could reel off so many other examples and I am sure others could.

Where I am now is a great example....Singapore. Been here for 2 months now. Havent paid a single cent extra for anything since I have been here. I have done nearly every day to day activity you can think of for someone that lives somewhere and never been charged a single cent extra or even treated differently in any way.

To me the principle, point and question of this whole thread is BY INSTINCT do Thai people want to charge western looking people more for things because there is a status and wealth attached to their race. I think the answer is yes. In any half decent country would this be racism...in my opinion..yes !! Even if not racism then at the very least the practice would be regarded as unethical and not encouraged.

The examples you provide are more of lazy sales assistants not checking the ID / passport of every customer to see if they are Thai (rather than racist price policy per se).

Such checks would be impractical and rather pointless given that nearly all the customers who look Thai are Thai and nearly all the customers who don't look Thai are not Thai.

Even if a Thai (who doesn't look Thai) was initially not offered the discount price, I am sure this would be forthcoming on presentation of Thai ID / passport.

Singapore is not relevant as a comparison because as we have explained the main reason many businesses in Thailand charge lower prices for Thais is that they have lower average income / spending power than tourists, where as in Singapore this is not the case so there is no economic reason to charge the locals lower prices.

Sent from iPhone; please forgive any typos or violations of forum rules

Just to add fuel to the fire... Last year, I went to a National park in a place called Mahabalipuram, just down the coast from Chennai in India.

Written in English, in very large letters was 'Entrance Fees: Indian Nationals 20 rupees, all other nationalities 200 rupees'

[Rimmer]

Someone cant take a hint and a post discussing Jews and race has been removed, next time it will earn a warning

[tropo]

*deleted* (just read Rimmer's directive)

Edited August 16, 2012 by tropo

[brit1984]

"Anyway, double pricing in Thailand is not based on race but residence or (in extreme cases) nationality."

Sorry that just simply isnt true. As I mentioned before in the thread I know of many examples where non Thai nationals/non residents pay Thai prices without any stress or checks at all and have done for years. Anything from vegetables at a market stall through to the Grand Palace in BKK. My freind here who is Singaporean has always paid Thai prices because he looks Thai and speaks it. My best freind's girlfreind is from Loas. She lives here as a Thai. Infact when they go somewhere he pays the farang price and she walks in as though she is Thai. My wife's freind is also from Loas, has never paid a farang price in her life and actually refers to herself as Thai and we are the foreigners. The only difference between her and a Thai is she goes for visa runs. I was speaking to another guy here who is a Chinese Malaysian, he looks and speaks Thai. Again same story, lived in Hat Yai for years, even worked....lol. Even worked driving a tuk tuk (illegally of course). Never paid more for anything............why (sorry if it seems im trying to ram this home) BECAUSE HE LOOKS THAI. Not because he flashed a Thai ID card everyday or showed a residency card or form but because he looks the part. If I started driving a tuk tuk around Hat Yai how long would I last before being locked up and paying huge somes of money, i reckon 1 hour. He drove a tuk tuk in Hat Yai for 3 years before he left for Malaysia again. My point is he was regarded as a Thai because he looked like it and thus treated the same.

There is also a really nice food stall that I got my food from for months in Pattaya, second road. One day I sent my wife, i was sick. It was cheaper, only 10 baht....I didnt care about the 10 baht but all that time they had been charging me more for food. Did they check if she was a resident, of course bloody not....lol. Why did I pay more.......(again I am sorry) BECAUSE I AM WHITE. There are other examples and I could go on. If double charging was on residency then these examples would not exist, simple as that for me.

Some tasks I do around Pattaya I generally ask my wife to do it because of this double pricing based on race. For example we have had two punctures on the motorbike recently. The first one I took to repair, 200 baht. 2 weeks later my wife went to do the second one in the same shop 150 baht. Do you think they stood there and asked for my work permit to prove I am not a tourist.....lol.....they dont care. Ofcourse not, it was by instinct that they related my race to wealth and a certain status and thus the increased price. Same when I go to the market, I tell my wife what we need and she buys it. I have tested it, we save over 200 baht on a market run if she shops and not me.

There is also a really nice food stall that I got my food from for months. One day I sent my wife, i was sick. It was cheaper, only 5 baht....I didnt care about the 5 baht but all that time they had been charging me more. Did they check if she was a resident, of course bloody not. Why did she pay less.... I could reel off so many other examples and I am sure others could.

Where I am now is a great example....Singapore. Been here for 2 months now. Havent paid a single cent extra for anything since I have been here. I have done nearly every day to day activity you can think of for someone that lives somewhere and never been charged a single cent extra or even treated differently in any way.

To me the principle, point and question of this whole thread is BY INSTINCT do Thai people want to charge western looking people more for things because there is a status and wealth attached to their race. I think the answer is yes. In any half decent country would this be racism...in my opinion..yes !! Even if not racism then at the very least the practice would be regarded as unethical and not encouraged.

The examples you provide are more of lazy sales assistants not checking the ID / passport of every customer to see if they are Thai (rather than racist price policy per se).

Such checks would be impractical and rather pointless given that nearly all the customers who look Thai are Thai and nearly all the customers who don't look Thai are not Thai.

Even if a Thai (who doesn't look Thai) was initially not offered the discount price, I am sure this would be forthcoming on presentation of Thai ID / passport.

Singapore is not relevant as a comparison because as we have explained the main reason many businesses in Thailand charge lower prices for Thais is that they have lower average income / spending power than tourists, where as in Singapore this is not the case so there is no economic reason to charge the locals lower prices.

Sent from iPhone; please forgive any typos or violations of forum rules

Just to add fuel to the fire... Last year, I went to a National park in a place called Mahabalipuram, just down the coast from Chennai in India.

Written in English, in very large letters was 'Entrance Fees: Indian Nationals 20 rupees, all other nationalities 200 rupees'

Indeed, and the same is true in every country where the local population is on average much poorer (and has less spending power) than the tourists (or at least every such country where there are enough tourists to make such a policy worth implementing).

As already explained, such price discrimination produces an economically superior efficient outcome, whereby the National Park earns higher revenue (to pay wages and maintain the park) and more people can enjoy the park (with greater access even for the poorer locals).

[rinteln]

"Anyway, double pricing in Thailand is not based on race but residence or (in extreme cases) nationality."

Sorry that just simply isnt true. As I mentioned before in the thread I know of many examples where non Thai nationals/non residents pay Thai prices without any stress or checks at all and have done for years. Anything from vegetables at a market stall through to the Grand Palace in BKK. My freind here who is Singaporean has always paid Thai prices because he looks Thai and speaks it. My best freind's girlfreind is from Loas. She lives here as a Thai. Infact when they go somewhere he pays the farang price and she walks in as though she is Thai. My wife's freind is also from Loas, has never paid a farang price in her life and actually refers to herself as Thai and we are the foreigners. The only difference between her and a Thai is she goes for visa runs. I was speaking to another guy here who is a Chinese Malaysian, he looks and speaks Thai. Again same story, lived in Hat Yai for years, even worked....lol. Even worked driving a tuk tuk (illegally of course). Never paid more for anything............why (sorry if it seems im trying to ram this home) BECAUSE HE LOOKS THAI. Not because he flashed a Thai ID card everyday or showed a residency card or form but because he looks the part. If I started driving a tuk tuk around Hat Yai how long would I last before being locked up and paying huge somes of money, i reckon 1 hour. He drove a tuk tuk in Hat Yai for 3 years before he left for Malaysia again. My point is he was regarded as a Thai because he looked like it and thus treated the same.

There is also a really nice food stall that I got my food from for months in Pattaya, second road. One day I sent my wife, i was sick. It was cheaper, only 10 baht....I didnt care about the 10 baht but all that time they had been charging me more for food. Did they check if she was a resident, of course bloody not....lol. Why did I pay more.......(again I am sorry) BECAUSE I AM WHITE. There are other examples and I could go on. If double charging was on residency then these examples would not exist, simple as that for me.

Some tasks I do around Pattaya I generally ask my wife to do it because of this double pricing based on race. For example we have had two punctures on the motorbike recently. The first one I took to repair, 200 baht. 2 weeks later my wife went to do the second one in the same shop 150 baht. Do you think they stood there and asked for my work permit to prove I am not a tourist.....lol.....they dont care. Ofcourse not, it was by instinct that they related my race to wealth and a certain status and thus the increased price. Same when I go to the market, I tell my wife what we need and she buys it. I have tested it, we save over 200 baht on a market run if she shops and not me.

There is also a really nice food stall that I got my food from for months. One day I sent my wife, i was sick. It was cheaper, only 5 baht....I didnt care about the 5 baht but all that time they had been charging me more. Did they check if she was a resident, of course bloody not. Why did she pay less.... I could reel off so many other examples and I am sure others could.

Where I am now is a great example....Singapore. Been here for 2 months now. Havent paid a single cent extra for anything since I have been here. I have done nearly every day to day activity you can think of for someone that lives somewhere and never been charged a single cent extra or even treated differently in any way.

To me the principle, point and question of this whole thread is BY INSTINCT do Thai people want to charge western looking people more for things because there is a status and wealth attached to their race. I think the answer is yes. In any half decent country would this be racism...in my opinion..yes !! Even if not racism then at the very least the practice would be regarded as unethical and not encouraged.

The examples you provide are more of lazy sales assistants not checking the ID / passport of every customer to see if they are Thai (rather than racist price policy per se).

Such checks would be impractical and rather pointless given that nearly all the customers who look Thai are Thai and nearly all the customers who don't look Thai are not Thai.

Even if a Thai (who doesn't look Thai) was initially not offered the discount price, I am sure this would be forthcoming on presentation of Thai ID / passport.

Singapore is not relevant as a comparison because as we have explained the main reason many businesses in Thailand charge lower prices for Thais is that they have lower average income / spending power than tourists, where as in Singapore this is not the case so there is no economic reason to charge the locals lower prices.

Sent from iPhone; please forgive any typos or violations of forum rules

My general point here is more about the instinct in their mind. Whether they have been occasioanlly regulated is different and a bonus but doesnt represent the norm. It is within the culture to view farangs as more wealthy and hence treat them as such.

Edited August 16, 2012 by rinteln

[rinteln]

Where I am now is a great example....Singapore. Been here for 2 months now. Havent paid a single cent extra for anything since I have been here. I have done nearly every day to day activity you can think of for someone that lives somewhere and never been charged a single cent extra or even treated differently in any way.

It still happens in Singapore although not 'officially'. Some taxi drivers will still take you the long way round if they think you are unfamiliar, plumbers, aircon maintenance men etc will often quote a higher price to foreigners as there is still a perception they are wealthier so you will often pay a higher price than the locals. However it is not as systematic as Thailand and you could even debate it isnt racism and just opportunistic entrepreneurialism, but dont kid yourself that it doesnt happen.

When you are settled pick up a few words of Hokkien, you'll be surprised what is said about the unsuspecting foreigner and the underlying resentment towards them.

But singaporeans are as timid as mice so you dont need to worry about them wielding baseball bats or any of the other aggressive behaviour the Thai in this situation is guilty of.

Spoken to people who have lived here for years. Double pricing is almost unheard of and for them isnt even something they have ever thought about. As I say I have been here for long enough now to encounter many day to day situations and I have never been treated any different, charged any different for anything and treated as you would want to be treated in any equal society.

Im sure some of them dont like us and may even speak about us but there is a big difference between thinking it and then putting it into action. Not liking foreginers is a million years different to double charging groups of people and justifying it because you think they have more money. Every country has citizens that dont like foreigners, thats normal.

[brit1984]

Where I am now is a great example....Singapore. Been here for 2 months now. Havent paid a single cent extra for anything since I have been here. I have done nearly every day to day activity you can think of for someone that lives somewhere and never been charged a single cent extra or even treated differently in any way.

It still happens in Singapore although not 'officially'. Some taxi drivers will still take you the long way round if they think you are unfamiliar, plumbers, aircon maintenance men etc will often quote a higher price to foreigners as there is still a perception they are wealthier so you will often pay a higher price than the locals. However it is not as systematic as Thailand and you could even debate it isnt racism and just opportunistic entrepreneurialism, but dont kid yourself that it doesnt happen.

When you are settled pick up a few words of Hokkien, you'll be surprised what is said about the unsuspecting foreigner and the underlying resentment towards them.

But singaporeans are as timid as mice so you dont need to worry about them wielding baseball bats or any of the other aggressive behaviour the Thai in this situation is guilty of.

Spoken to people who have lived here for years. Double pricing is almost unheard of and for them isnt even something they have ever thought about. As I say I have been here for long enough now to encounter many day to day situations and I have never been treated any different, charged any different for anything and treated as you would want to be treated in any equal society.

Im sure some of them dont like us and may even speak about us but there is a big difference between thinking it and then putting it into action. Not liking foreginers is a million years different to double charging groups of people and justifying it because you think they have more money. Every country has citizens that dont like foreigners, thats normal.

I don't know whether or not double pricing exists in Singapore as I have never lived there (I did mention that it definetely exists in the UK). However, as I explained earlier, the economic rationale is not as clear in developed countries (in contrast to Thailand, India, etc) because the tourists are not generally any wealthier than the locals.

[brit1984]

"Anyway, double pricing in Thailand is not based on race but residence or (in extreme cases) nationality."

Sorry that just simply isnt true. As I mentioned before in the thread I know of many examples where non Thai nationals/non residents pay Thai prices without any stress or checks at all and have done for years. Anything from vegetables at a market stall through to the Grand Palace in BKK. My freind here who is Singaporean has always paid Thai prices because he looks Thai and speaks it. My best freind's girlfreind is from Loas. She lives here as a Thai. Infact when they go somewhere he pays the farang price and she walks in as though she is Thai. My wife's freind is also from Loas, has never paid a farang price in her life and actually refers to herself as Thai and we are the foreigners. The only difference between her and a Thai is she goes for visa runs. I was speaking to another guy here who is a Chinese Malaysian, he looks and speaks Thai. Again same story, lived in Hat Yai for years, even worked....lol. Even worked driving a tuk tuk (illegally of course). Never paid more for anything............why (sorry if it seems im trying to ram this home) BECAUSE HE LOOKS THAI. Not because he flashed a Thai ID card everyday or showed a residency card or form but because he looks the part. If I started driving a tuk tuk around Hat Yai how long would I last before being locked up and paying huge somes of money, i reckon 1 hour. He drove a tuk tuk in Hat Yai for 3 years before he left for Malaysia again. My point is he was regarded as a Thai because he looked like it and thus treated the same.

There is also a really nice food stall that I got my food from for months in Pattaya, second road. One day I sent my wife, i was sick. It was cheaper, only 10 baht....I didnt care about the 10 baht but all that time they had been charging me more for food. Did they check if she was a resident, of course bloody not....lol. Why did I pay more.......(again I am sorry) BECAUSE I AM WHITE. There are other examples and I could go on. If double charging was on residency then these examples would not exist, simple as that for me.

Some tasks I do around Pattaya I generally ask my wife to do it because of this double pricing based on race. For example we have had two punctures on the motorbike recently. The first one I took to repair, 200 baht. 2 weeks later my wife went to do the second one in the same shop 150 baht. Do you think they stood there and asked for my work permit to prove I am not a tourist.....lol.....they dont care. Ofcourse not, it was by instinct that they related my race to wealth and a certain status and thus the increased price. Same when I go to the market, I tell my wife what we need and she buys it. I have tested it, we save over 200 baht on a market run if she shops and not me.

There is also a really nice food stall that I got my food from for months. One day I sent my wife, i was sick. It was cheaper, only 5 baht....I didnt care about the 5 baht but all that time they had been charging me more. Did they check if she was a resident, of course bloody not. Why did she pay less.... I could reel off so many other examples and I am sure others could.

Where I am now is a great example....Singapore. Been here for 2 months now. Havent paid a single cent extra for anything since I have been here. I have done nearly every day to day activity you can think of for someone that lives somewhere and never been charged a single cent extra or even treated differently in any way.

To me the principle, point and question of this whole thread is BY INSTINCT do Thai people want to charge western looking people more for things because there is a status and wealth attached to their race. I think the answer is yes. In any half decent country would this be racism...in my opinion..yes !! Even if not racism then at the very least the practice would be regarded as unethical and not encouraged.

The examples you provide are more of lazy sales assistants not checking the ID / passport of every customer to see if they are Thai (rather than racist price policy per se).

Such checks would be impractical and rather pointless given that nearly all the customers who look Thai are Thai and nearly all the customers who don't look Thai are not Thai.

Even if a Thai (who doesn't look Thai) was initially not offered the discount price, I am sure this would be forthcoming on presentation of Thai ID / passport.

Singapore is not relevant as a comparison because as we have explained the main reason many businesses in Thailand charge lower prices for Thais is that they have lower average income / spending power than tourists, where as in Singapore this is not the case so there is no economic reason to charge the locals lower prices.

Sent from iPhone; please forgive any typos or violations of forum rules

My general point here is more about the instinct in their mind. Whether they have been occasioanlly regulated is different and a bonus but doesnt represent the norm. It is within the culture to view farangs as more wealthy and hence treat them as such.

...and that view is correct and therefore price discrimination is completely rational from an economic perspective.

[rgs2001uk]

My general point here is more about the instinct in their mind. Whether they have been occasioanlly regulated is different and a bonus but doesnt represent the norm. It is within the culture to view farangs as more wealthy and hence treat them as such.

...and that view is correct and therefore price discrimination is completely rational from an economic perspective.

From what I have observed lately, the farang should be given a discount.

Hardly "The Quality Tourists" Miracle Thailand envisaged before opening their borders.

Someone somewhere must be pissing their pants at all the kee nok and cheap charlie farang.

[Kananga]

Where I am now is a great example....Singapore. Been here for 2 months now. Havent paid a single cent extra for anything since I have been here. I have done nearly every day to day activity you can think of for someone that lives somewhere and never been charged a single cent extra or even treated differently in any way.

It still happens in Singapore although not 'officially'. Some taxi drivers will still take you the long way round if they think you are unfamiliar, plumbers, aircon maintenance men etc will often quote a higher price to foreigners as there is still a perception they are wealthier so you will often pay a higher price than the locals. However it is not as systematic as Thailand and you could even debate it isnt racism and just opportunistic entrepreneurialism, but dont kid yourself that it doesnt happen.

When you are settled pick up a few words of Hokkien, you'll be surprised what is said about the unsuspecting foreigner and the underlying resentment towards them.

But singaporeans are as timid as mice so you dont need to worry about them wielding baseball bats or any of the other aggressive behaviour the Thai in this situation is guilty of.

Spoken to people who have lived here for years. Double pricing is almost unheard of and for them isnt even something they have ever thought about. As I say I have been here for long enough now to encounter many day to day situations and I have never been treated any different, charged any different for anything and treated as you would want to be treated in any equal society.

Im sure some of them dont like us and may even speak about us but there is a big difference between thinking it and then putting it into action. Not liking foreginers is a million years different to double charging groups of people and justifying it because you think they have more money. Every country has citizens that dont like foreigners, thats normal.

You do realize that you have just repeated mostly what I was saying, other than the fact it does happen a little more than you are currently aware of. I speak only of personal experience and first hand examples from living there for 8 years. Lets compare notes in another 7 years and 10 months shall we? I'm sure your attitude will have changed a little by then. It always does

If you would like an example go to Newton Circus for some seafood and then ask a local what they paid for the same food. Or buy some electronics from Sim Lim or Lucky Plaza. All are notorious for ripping off foreigners with higher prices. Loads of talk about this on google if you dont want to believe me.

Edited August 16, 2012 by Kananga

[tropo]

If you would like an example go to Newton Circus for some seafood and then ask a local what they paid for the same food. Or buy some electronics from Sim Lim or Lucky Plaza. All are notorious for ripping off foreigners with higher prices. Loads of talk about this on google if you dont want to believe me.

This is the same kind of thing that used to go on in Australia during the Japanese tourist boom in the 80's. People used to rob the Japanese blind. They used to pay a fortune for real estate too (compared to locals).

I suppose the moral of the story is: "people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones".

Edited August 16, 2012 by tropo

[Kananga]

If you would like an example go to Newton Circus for some seafood and then ask a local what they paid for the same food. Or buy some electronics from Sim Lim or Lucky Plaza. All are notorious for ripping off foreigners with higher prices. Loads of talk about this on google if you dont want to believe me.

This is the same kind of thing that used to go on in Australia during the Japanese tourist boom in the 80's. People used to rob the Japanese blind. They used to pay a fortune for real estate too (compared to locals).

I suppose the moral of the story is: "people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones".

Personally I thunk the moral of the story is "living in a country for 2 months isn't long enough to make informed judgements."

[theoldgit]

We went to the Flora Expo up in Chiang Mai earlier in the year with visitors from the UK, and very good it was too. My visitors and I are of a certain age and were given the senior citizen rate, whilst my Thai partner, who isn't, paid the full rate.

[tropo]

If you would like an example go to Newton Circus for some seafood and then ask a local what they paid for the same food. Or buy some electronics from Sim Lim or Lucky Plaza. All are notorious for ripping off foreigners with higher prices. Loads of talk about this on google if you dont want to believe me.

This is the same kind of thing that used to go on in Australia during the Japanese tourist boom in the 80's. People used to rob the Japanese blind. They used to pay a fortune for real estate too (compared to locals).

I suppose the moral of the story is: "people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones".

Personally I thunk the moral of the story is "living in a country for 2 months isn't long enough to make informed judgements."

Sometimes people who live in a country for a long time "can't see the forest for the trees".

[Kananga]

If you would like an example go to Newton Circus for some seafood and then ask a local what they paid for the same food. Or buy some electronics from Sim Lim or Lucky Plaza. All are notorious for ripping off foreigners with higher prices. Loads of talk about this on google if you dont want to believe me.

This is the same kind of thing that used to go on in Australia during the Japanese tourist boom in the 80's. People used to rob the Japanese blind. They used to pay a fortune for real estate too (compared to locals).

I suppose the moral of the story is: "people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones".

Personally I thunk the moral of the story is "living in a country for 2 months isn't long enough to make informed judgements."

Sometimes people who live in a country for a long time "can't see the forest for the trees".

Others would say 'There's no substitute for experience'.

[tropo]

Others would say 'There's no substitute for experience'.

What is your area of expertise? There's 2 places in the world called "Kananga" - one in Africa, the other in the Philippines.

Edited August 17, 2012 by tropo

[Kananga]

Others would say 'There's no substitute for experience'.

What is your area of expertise? There's 2 places in the world called "Kananga" - one in Africa, the other in the Philippines.

James bond film trivia specialising in the early Roger Moore films.

[rinteln]

Where I am now is a great example....Singapore. Been here for 2 months now. Havent paid a single cent extra for anything since I have been here. I have done nearly every day to day activity you can think of for someone that lives somewhere and never been charged a single cent extra or even treated differently in any way.

It still happens in Singapore although not 'officially'. Some taxi drivers will still take you the long way round if they think you are unfamiliar, plumbers, aircon maintenance men etc will often quote a higher price to foreigners as there is still a perception they are wealthier so you will often pay a higher price than the locals. However it is not as systematic as Thailand and you could even debate it isnt racism and just opportunistic entrepreneurialism, but dont kid yourself that it doesnt happen.

When you are settled pick up a few words of Hokkien, you'll be surprised what is said about the unsuspecting foreigner and the underlying resentment towards them.

But singaporeans are as timid as mice so you dont need to worry about them wielding baseball bats or any of the other aggressive behaviour the Thai in this situation is guilty of.

Spoken to people who have lived here for years. Double pricing is almost unheard of and for them isnt even something they have ever thought about. As I say I have been here for long enough now to encounter many day to day situations and I have never been treated any different, charged any different for anything and treated as you would want to be treated in any equal society.

Im sure some of them dont like us and may even speak about us but there is a big difference between thinking it and then putting it into action. Not liking foreginers is a million years different to double charging groups of people and justifying it because you think they have more money. Every country has citizens that dont like foreigners, thats normal.

You do realize that you have just repeated mostly what I was saying, other than the fact it does happen a little more than you are currently aware of. I speak only of personal experience and first hand examples from living there for 8 years. Lets compare notes in another 7 years and 10 months shall we? I'm sure your attitude will have changed a little by then. It always does

If you would like an example go to Newton Circus for some seafood and then ask a local what they paid for the same food. Or buy some electronics from Sim Lim or Lucky Plaza. All are notorious for ripping off foreigners with higher prices. Loads of talk about this on google if you dont want to believe me.

Well I guess for first hand experience I will have to find out. I have spoke to many people here and they have not experienced much double pricing. Im sure there are a few examples but the general feeling

Even if you are correct then there is no way it is any where near the level that it is in Thailand otherwise I would be hearing about it from at least a couple of people as they have been here for quite a few years.

[Kananga]

It still happens in Singapore although not 'officially'. Some taxi drivers will still take you the long way round if they think you are unfamiliar, plumbers, aircon maintenance men etc will often quote a higher price to foreigners as there is still a perception they are wealthier so you will often pay a higher price than the locals. However it is not as systematic as Thailand and you could even debate it isnt racism and just opportunistic entrepreneurialism, but dont kid yourself that it doesnt happen.

When you are settled pick up a few words of Hokkien, you'll be surprised what is said about the unsuspecting foreigner and the underlying resentment towards them.

But singaporeans are as timid as mice so you dont need to worry about them wielding baseball bats or any of the other aggressive behaviour the Thai in this situation is guilty of.

Spoken to people who have lived here for years. Double pricing is almost unheard of and for them isnt even something they have ever thought about. As I say I have been here for long enough now to encounter many day to day situations and I have never been treated any different, charged any different for anything and treated as you would want to be treated in any equal society.

Im sure some of them dont like us and may even speak about us but there is a big difference between thinking it and then putting it into action. Not liking foreginers is a million years different to double charging groups of people and justifying it because you think they have more money. Every country has citizens that dont like foreigners, thats normal.

You do realize that you have just repeated mostly what I was saying, other than the fact it does happen a little more than you are currently aware of. I speak only of personal experience and first hand examples from living there for 8 years. Lets compare notes in another 7 years and 10 months shall we? I'm sure your attitude will have changed a little by then. It always does

If you would like an example go to Newton Circus for some seafood and then ask a local what they paid for the same food. Or buy some electronics from Sim Lim or Lucky Plaza. All are notorious for ripping off foreigners with higher prices. Loads of talk about this on google if you dont want to believe me.

Well I guess for first hand experience I will have to find out. I have spoke to many people here and they have not experienced much double pricing. Im sure there are a few examples but the general feeling

Even if you are correct then there is no way it is any where near the level that it is in Thailand otherwise I would be hearing about it from at least a couple of people as they have been here for quite a few years.

Like I said in my original comment it is not as systematic or pronounced as in Thailand, just that it does happen. Enjoy your time there.