The Thai Shopping Basket......Cost Of Living ( And No Not That Again ).

[theblether]

Okay, let's make a move into property comparison.....two columns, one for rental, one for purchase. I suggest we base it on properties less than 5 years old, though that is only a suggestion and is flexible. I'm led to believe that condos in particular which are over 15 years old are difficult to re-sell. No doubt some Thai residents will have a view on that.

I suggest the categories should be.....

Studio flat

One bed condo

Two bed condo

Three bed condo

One bed house

Two bed house

Three bed house

Four bed house

How about some of our Thai property experts tweaking that a little bit and allocating a realistic square metreage and rai ( garden ) allocation to each property.

It's rudimentary, but it's a start, so for example, how much would you expect to pay for a modern studio rental in Pattaya? Chiang Mai? Cha-am? BKK? Phuket?

On that subject, I've seen decent modern studio apartments in Chiang Mai with wi-fi and flat screen TV for 3500-4500 per month.

[theblether]

@harrry, I agree it's going to be an inexact science, however it's one of the most oft asked questions by people looking to move to Thailand. If anyone can put together even a rudimentary guide it will be the TV membership.

A place to sleep at night is a fundamental need, so we should begin with that. As vf pointed out, there can be substantial costs in regards to furnishings so if we go on the basis that the initial list is furnished, then we'll do a separate list for purchasing furnishings.

It may be a long thread but at the end we can condense down the findings, and use it as a useful guide ( for some ), as to realistic expenditure.

[harrry]

My view is a more than adequate place can be found in Cm for a single person for 4000 baht but anything up to 6000 may provide more benefits. More than this is throwing money away.

Chiangrai is a little more difficult because of the limited condos and apartments. It can be from 4000 if you are willing to settle for a low grade condo but you may have to go to 8000 to get a suitable house.

Edited August 11, 2012 by harrry

[kimamey]

Put in a car and all savings are gone ...... so better convience yourself taking taxis is just as good as your own car.

Put in a real house with a stove , bathtub a decnt size livingroom ...... oops thats to expensive to better leave that out

Steak , Hamburger , oops not Thai better leave that out.

Levis.......... nope imported ...... whats the point ?

Taxis !!! I assume you don't get out of the city too much?

Seriously though it's very difficult to get agreement on what should be in a basket. In my view beer isn't a necessity although I do like a a drink sometimes but then again I can look myself to find that out. Others will disagree of course. Vehemently in many cases.

Maybe just basics would be best and then anything else can be mentioned separately. Then there's the Thai / Western food debate. Plus the subject of housing has been brought into it.

Now I think of it where's the cheapest place to get very very drunk?

[poanoi]

I guess Chiang Mai is less expensive than where I live(Pattaya). I was checking rental prices and the difference is ridiculous. I think rent is 50% higher here.

According to a friend of mine who is very price sensitive, -he went from pattaya to Chiang mai and stayed there for half a year,and complained bitterly over the cost there.Tho it may have been the cost of prostitutes that made him so negative,can't remember

[MrRealDeal]

The reason I have a car is so I can get out of the city. I get out pretty much every Fri afternoon with my wife.

[TwoDogz]

We're never going to agree on a 'shopping basket' - let alone the cost of it !

Exactly...some like floral ones, I like recycled, others just prefer backpacks or pushtrolleys.

[BookMan]

Okay, let's make a move into property comparison.....two columns, one for rental, one for purchase. I suggest we base it on properties less than 5 years old, though that is only a suggestion and is flexible. I'm led to believe that condos in particular which are over 15 years old are difficult to re-sell. No doubt some Thai residents will have a view on that.

I suggest the categories should be.....

Studio flat

One bed condo

Two bed condo

Three bed condo

One bed house

Two bed house

Three bed house

Four bed house

How about some of our Thai property experts tweaking that a little bit and allocating a realistic square metreage and rai ( garden ) allocation to each property.

It's rudimentary, but it's a start, so for example, how much would you expect to pay for a modern studio rental in Pattaya? Chiang Mai? Cha-am? BKK? Phuket?

On that subject, I've seen decent modern studio apartments in Chiang Mai with wi-fi and flat screen TV for 3500-4500 per month.

Good suggestion. Cater for all types.

I also don't see the Thai basket cost of Living Index (TBCOLI) you propose as being for the long term Thai expat resident, but more for people like myself, frequent visitors who intend to live somewhere in Thailand permanently.

[arthurwait]

We're never going to agree on a 'shopping basket' - let alone the cost of it !

any attempt is bound to fail as individual situations vary too much.

Wrong. A basket represents essential living expenses: accommodation, transport, food & drink, entertainment, insurance, savings, etc.

How you interpret these essentials is your prerogative. Accommodation for you may be a large house; for me it may be a single room apartment.

Individual costs will vary according to budget and taste, but the key components of the basket will be much the same for everyone.

I've had a few basket case cars, but not one yet that I could fit in a basket.

[arthurwait]

Starting Monday I will list daily buys/costs at the local corner shop followed by items and costs at Foodland during the week. If done over a 3 or 4 week period should give an average weekly bill for 2. Some things bought obviously last longer than a week, eg frozen veggies etc, last why I think needs to be averaged out.

No schooling involved for me.

Housing costs will be monthly mortgage payment.

Transport weill be monthly for car and fuel

Meals out, beers etc all to be included.

Thoughts ?

1) Local market/Tesco Lotus may well be cheaper for some items than local corner shop - so many will disagree with the price..

2) Depends on what you buy - others will have an entirely different shopping list...

3) Monthly mortgage depends on how much/type of house you bought...

etc. etc.

I suspect the only thing that we will all agree on is that the costs of living in a tourist area are higher than those without tourists?!

Edit - Mind you, the cost of meals out (as long as the meal eaten is provided - huge difference between Western meal and Thai meal) and cost of beers, should work?

Not necessarily.

Places in outer Bangkok and the Eastern seaboard and maybe others the land/shops/rent is more expensive than many places where tourists go around the country. A business will likely factor this in in it's prices.

Plus in tourist places you can always shop/eat/live where the low paid workers do.

Or do you mean tourist , non-tourist places in the same town ?

[TwoDogz]

Dont forget the maid to carry the basket.

[BookMan]

There has been a lot of discussion in this Hua Hin thread re the cost of living. With 18 000+ views im sure many have read it. here is the link:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/575121-i-want-to-live-in-hua-hin/

[kimamey]

I hate to belabor the topic but I just don't find good comparisions all that possible ...... Steak for example is horrible here so you can't really compare that , sure they sell it at macro but it's nothing like in the usa ..... just because it has a usda stamp doesn't mean it's what I buy in the usa , Razor Blades might be good but the import tax kills ya and you would perhaps just buy Thai ones instead , Beer depends on the kind you compare it to , equivalant strength in a 48 ounce can is about the same in the usa as a big beer Chang ..... 1.60 .... a little more. But thats kind of seeking out a brand noone really drinks Even a bag of Doritos are a special export quality not the same.

I guess my point is that I think it's better to just figure out how much your monthly shopping basket costs for you to live and compare it rather than compare items that are kind of the same but not really or compare items that you might not even buy becasuse of the price difference. Lets face it your shopping basket is full of stuff here that you don't have there and the same back home.

I really dislike these posts because people tend to use the best price in Thailand and not the best price from back home , Chicken for example is the same price in the USA if you shop with half a brain as the cooked chickens you buy streetside here. everyone thinks are such a great deal.

Things are cheaper for a reason not because they are exactly the same , often just taxes , like cars more exp or cigs less , so sometimes it's not a differecne but it usually is. Someone posted that nice large places with good sized livingrooms are easy to find for 10-20K ........ Thats just not true. If you compare housing and whats inside the houses here they are cheaper a little but no so much when you look at the size of the rooms the size of the yard the proximity of the neighbors , the bathrooms and kitchens , lack of hot water tanks , ect. They are a pretty good deal but you lose a little of this and that to get some of the savings ...... the bottom end is the best deals I suppose but who can live in a 26 or 32 SQm condo even if it is 5000 bht or less ? Not me

The shopping basket would also need to include lack of property tax , thats really a pretty decent part of what saves the middle class living here ...... saves me about 6000USD per year thats pretty much free food beer and cigs or a new Camry every 5 years or new Yaris every 3. Even that is a questionable comparison ..... Do I compare a like house in the USA or compare the tax on the lesser expensive but same sized house here ? One way it's 6 the other 3 and depending on if you sell the house maybe 0. So it just another hard to compare comparision. ....... Unless you just compare cost to costs and make your personal fudge for lack of or improvement in quality of products or life enjoyment.

Yes their are savings to be had but not always because it's a real apples to apples comparision no matter how hard to try to make it one.

Hard as it seems for people to admit the savings come with a cost thats hard to put a price on but is greater than 0. But it is generally cheaper once the bastet is filled....... Because the quality of living and quality of products makes it that way most of the time.

Even at the High end the pools are not quite as clean , the tennis courts not as nice , the golf courses not quite as green , the Yacht clubs not as nice ect.

I'm not sure you understand this idea. It's a comparison of prices in Thailand. Steak may not be the same in Thailand as in the USA but I doubt you'll be flying back just to get it are you. Not that you'd get it through customs anyway.

If it's that good it's something to look forward to when you go back to visit.

[oilreg]

i found it interesting that quality electronics, like CPU, GFX and stuff are in thailand a good 10-20% more expensive then in europe

i always thought they are produced in asia anyways so was really stunned to see them in thailand more expensive

[NoshowJones]

If anyone needs a current cost comparison try looking at www.coles.com.au and go to online shopping. The prices there shocked me. Tops is not as expensive as I thought.

Be very wary of online shopping for food. You pay a lot for delivery to Thailand from the UK, You pay a lot again for delivery to your house. In all, you pay about 3 times the value. Not worth it.

[drdoom6996]

Condoms should be on the list....and seeing as I suggested this use my size ...Trojan Magnum

Is that so you can put them on your head and blow them up?

[harrry]

If anyone needs a current cost comparison try looking at www.coles.com.au and go to online shopping. The prices there shocked me. Tops is not as expensive as I thought.

Be very wary of online shopping for food. You pay a lot for delivery to Thailand from the UK, You pay a lot again for delivery to your house. In all, you pay about 3 times the value. Not worth it.

My reason for the post was to show how expensive things were there now. Many of us have been here a few years and recall lower prices. Looking at those prices foreign foods are not that moee expensive in the shops here conisering freight. No way would I buy from them to send here.....they do not anyway.

Edited August 12, 2012 by harrry

[blazes]

Okay, let's make a move into property comparison.....two columns, one for rental, one for purchase. I suggest we base it on properties less than 5 years old, though that is only a suggestion and is flexible. I'm led to believe that condos in particular which are over 15 years old are difficult to re-sell. No doubt some Thai residents will have a view on that.

I suggest the categories should be.....

Studio flat

One bed condo

Two bed condo

Three bed condo

One bed house

Two bed house

Three bed house

Four bed house

How about some of our Thai property experts tweaking that a little bit and allocating a realistic square metreage and rai ( garden ) allocation to each property.

It's rudimentary, but it's a start, so for example, how much would you expect to pay for a modern studio rental in Pattaya? Chiang Mai? Cha-am? BKK? Phuket?

On that subject, I've seen decent modern studio apartments in Chiang Mai with wi-fi and flat screen TV for 3500-4500 per month.

Nowhere "decent" in CM for under 12k baht (I mean, "decent' for a farang who has been used to AT LEAST 45 sq m living space in his own country .)

[blazes]

I thought the idea presented by the OP was to compare living costs in various parts of Thailand, not comparing with home countries.

Why not stick with the absolute basics that we all need, namely food.

Then why not go to Tesco Lotus or Tops and go round the shelves noting the prices of things. That would give you some idea of how much differential there is between CM and KK and Samui and so on. There is too much disagreement on everything else. But if we knew what a dozen free range eggs cost in different parts of LoS in ONE store (like Tesco) , you would have some small idea of what the cost of living may be like in that part of LoS.

[TheWalkingMan]

For a longtime I thought about creating a basket of goods and sticking it up on google docs for people to input data for various items. Maybe that would be the way to go on this.

[bob4you]

Comparing apples to apples, I moved here for the weather and proximity to the beach. I hate cold weather and moved from Hawaii close to the beach. I have 180 sq. mtr townhouse walk to beach for B25,000 including utilities. What it would cost me in Hawaii with similar weather walking distance to beach would exceed my total monthly living expenses here not counting transportation costs in Hawaii. I am very content with what I get here and would have had to work until I died if I had wanted to stay in Hawaii.

Too many people do that and never get to appreciate retirement. Been here 8 years and hope to enjoy at least 20 more here. A shopping basket is not just what you get in the supermarket.

[Raesum]

Into my shopping basket I am going to put several bottles of 640ml Chang Classic.

I live in a non-tourist area on the outskirts of Bangkok bordering Nonthaburi(in fact I rarely see another falang) and I pay 45 baht per bottle.

I can also buy eggs at the same shop- 45 baht for 10 eggs.I then walk home to the house that my husband and I built 8 years ago and own outright.

Electricity about 2500 baht per month incl pool pump on daily etc and water bill about 150 baht per month.

My TOT internet provider bill is a constant 590 baht per month plus 109 baht for the phone

I am with Deves for my Health Insurance and that cost 28000 baht for 5 years

I fill my VW van up with gas about once a week for 400 baht and fill the petrol tank up about once every 2 months-2000 baht.

Vehicle maintenance is a killer when we need anything done-nothing under 10,000 baht but still very reasonable if you stop to compare prices in Aus.

[TwoDogz]

If I buy a basket of stuff...will someone buy it and I'll ems it off to you the same day ?

[theblether]

I would say that housing is the most fundamental expense.........harrry has pointed out that you can expect to pay up to double on a like for like basis condo comparing chiang rai with chiang mai. Highly relevant and possibly unexpected.

[BookMan]

I would say that housing is the most fundamental expense.........harrry has pointed out that you can expect to pay up to double on a like for like basis condo comparing chiang rai with chiang mai. Highly relevant and possibly unexpected.

Indeed. A very interesting comparison.

Why not take an estimated rental cost of a condo for each area ....5000-8000 baht.month

It is just a guide but would be a most valuable guide.

[PattayaParent]

Condoms should be on the list....and seeing as I suggested this use my size ...Trojan Magnum

Seeing as we have a lot of OAP's in Thailand, Viagra should be in the shopping basket as well..

Well if you're going to include condoms and viagra you'll have to include bar fines and short time and long time prices, otherwise there's no need for the condoms and viagra.

Eh? Speak for yourself man, some of us are irrisistible to the opposite sex.....

Gawd, now that I think about it some of us are irrisistible to the third sex when we're wearing a kilt.....

Oh no, flashbacks....

In that case you'd better include some KY and tissues for those santorum moments.

[harrry]

I would say that housing is the most fundamental expense.........harrry has pointed out that you can expect to pay up to double on a like for like basis condo comparing chiang rai with chiang mai. Highly relevant and possibly unexpected.

The problem with Chiangrai is there is one Condo only...or Condotel. It has very small rooms about 4000bht. There are a few new ones being built now but I think they will be expensive. There are some apartments. THese are basicly rooms for students or workers with a shower. Usually small from about 3000 baht. The only alternative most people have if they want better long term accomodation is house rental. That for a semi western house will start from 8000.

I think the same applies in most places outside the large tourists towns (and luckily Chiangrai has not caught up). THe places to rent that most people want do not exist. Of course basic houses reat cheap in Chiangrai and you can get one cheaper than in Chiangmai.

Edited August 12, 2012 by harrry

[snooky]

And since there is an ad for Thai lovelies on almost every page of TV, maybe their cost should be included in the basket

[Naam]

We're never going to agree on a 'shopping basket' - let alone the cost of it !

any attempt is bound to fail as individual situations vary too much.

If anyone can do it Naam you can do it, as you are our resident financial guru.

I know you wouldn't allow a simple exercise such as a shopping bag comparison defeat you.

You are too intelligent and talented to allow that to happen.

i don't do any shopping except for some wine or imported stuff and have therefore no idea of individual prices. what i have are exact figures for every month of the full 7 (soon 8) years we are in Thailand what we are spending on "household money" which includes food, drinks, soap, tooth paste, razor blades, washing powder, dog food, medication and a godzillion of other things one needs on a near daily basis.

if i post this figure it does not mean anything and is of no use for any comparisons. here's why: two persons, to live-in employees and two dogs use up the amount "x" whereas roughly 50% of the amount "x" is spent because of my preferences for some special food/drinks besides my liking of local Thai food.

[rbrooks]

Here in the USA a burger meal with fries and drink will run you around, $6. A 12pk of Heinecken you can find at $10. Thai Mekong whiskey fifth $18. Cigarettes Marlboro $5.50. Fuel $3.65/gal.