Daily Minimum Wage Increase To Bt300 Falls Behind Living Costs: Thai Study

[473geo]

To summarise the thread

The government appear to be delivering the 300 baht minimun wage, this negates and removes any accusation that the election promise was 'vote buying hyperbole'.........which pisses off the anti government posters

Their only creditable repost.........it is being delivered 'Thai time'

As this is occuring in Thailand....... .

1-the Government 'appear' to be delivering

2- as your post doesn't say 'is', that rather negates your assertion about accusations re the Government.

Your defence is it isn't happening as promised because it's part of the way things happen in Thai culture.

A rather confusing set of contradictory 'facts' allowing the jibe "which pisses off the anti government posters".

Well are the government delivering...because it would appear they are.....which I wrote?

When you can give me a global standard time in which government decisions are reached then fine, until then for sure they will be reached in 'Thai time' in Thailand, yes?

"which pisses off the anti government posters".....true is it not?

[metisdead]

Off topic nonsense posts have been removed.

[Noistar]

To summarise the thread

The government appear to be delivering the 300 baht minimun wage, this negates and removes any accusation that the election promise was 'vote buying hyperbole'.........which pisses off the anti government posters

Their only creditable repost.........it is being delivered 'Thai time'

As this is occuring in Thailand....... .

1-the Government 'appear' to be delivering

2- as your post doesn't say 'is', that rather negates your assertion about accusations re the Government.

Your defence is it isn't happening as promised because it's part of the way things happen in Thai culture.

A rather confusing set of contradictory 'facts' allowing the jibe "which pisses off the anti government posters".

Well are the government delivering...because it would appear they are.....which I wrote?

When you can give me a global standard time in which government decisions are reached then fine, until then for sure they will be reached in 'Thai time' in Thailand, yes?

"which pisses off the anti government posters".....true is it not?

Post #90

after nearly a year, implementation in 7 provinces doesn't seem something to cheer about.

For info. I am not 'anti-Government', I am merely interested in a Government being driven by what IS best for Thailand, rather than a pursuit of ideology.

If 'Thai time' is likely to exceed the 4 year term of this Government, would you still be claiming 'delivering'?

Can any Government promise a perfect country with everybody having what they need and be deemed successful if they don't achieve it but plead 'Thai time'?

[473geo]

To summarise the thread

The government appear to be delivering the 300 baht minimun wage, this negates and removes any accusation that the election promise was 'vote buying hyperbole'.........which pisses off the anti government posters

Their only creditable repost.........it is being delivered 'Thai time'

As this is occuring in Thailand....... .

1-the Government 'appear' to be delivering

2- as your post doesn't say 'is', that rather negates your assertion about accusations re the Government.

Your defence is it isn't happening as promised because it's part of the way things happen in Thai culture.

A rather confusing set of contradictory 'facts' allowing the jibe "which pisses off the anti government posters".

Well are the government delivering...because it would appear they are.....which I wrote?

When you can give me a global standard time in which government decisions are reached then fine, until then for sure they will be reached in 'Thai time' in Thailand, yes?

"which pisses off the anti government posters".....true is it not?

Post #90

after nearly a year, implementation in 7 provinces doesn't seem something to cheer about.

For info. I am not 'anti-Government', I am merely interested in a Government being driven by what IS best for Thailand, rather than a pursuit of ideology.

If 'Thai time' is likely to exceed the 4 year term of this Government, would you still be claiming 'delivering'?

Can any Government promise a perfect country with everybody having what they need and be deemed successful if they don't achieve it but plead 'Thai time'?

Well that would be 7 more than under the previous government and should be a starting point to move on

You are now starting with 'if' questions. Apologies, but I am not in the habit of discussing hypothetical 'if' questions.

Edited August 18, 2012 by 473geo

[Moruya]

<deleted> is wrong with people getting a slight increase in pay and a small improvement in their living conditions ??

How can people here object to this ??

You would all fight tooth and claw for a 3% increase in your pensions...................

There is absolutely nothing wrong with it. Provided it is properly researched and executed with all parties involved.

Just lobbing the policy out there with zero thought was ignorance in its extreme to all involved.

[Moruya]

What percentage of Thai workers have had their wages increased to the new minimum salary? Isn't this something the government should be using for self-agrandissement and yelling from the rooftops at all the infidels?

That's the same question I asked of Tom. Strangely enough, no reply.

[Moruya]

Well that would be 7 more than under the previous government and should be a starting point to move on

You are now starting with 'if' questions. Apologies, but I am not in the habit of discussing hypothetical 'if' questions.

You are conveniently forgetting the Dems' policies at the last election which were for a gradual increase. The PTP tried to trump it with their ill considered 300B scheme. I have no doubt the Dems' policy would have been far more successful to all

[rixalex]

Well that would be 7 more than under the previous government and should be a starting point to move on

You are now starting with 'if' questions. Apologies, but I am not in the habit of discussing hypothetical 'if' questions.

First it was "phasing in", and now it's "starting point".

Opposition parties at the next general election should take this absurd PTP supporters principle of "if a policy has been started in any way shape or form, that means it isn't failing" and run with it. Print up millions of posters to be spread around the nation promising 10 million baht deposited into the savings account of every voter, upon being elected... and then when they are, after one year deposit 10 baht into each account and assure the dissenting citizens (including red shirts who have by this stage started burning down the capital) that the promise hasn't been broken, but that it is simply being "phased in" and that the 10 baht deposit is just the "starting point".

[473geo]

Well that would be 7 more than under the previous government and should be a starting point to move on

You are now starting with 'if' questions. Apologies, but I am not in the habit of discussing hypothetical 'if' questions.

You are conveniently forgetting the Dems' policies at the last election which were for a gradual increase. The PTP tried to trump it with their ill considered 300B scheme. I have no doubt the Dems' policy would have been far more successful to all

No I am conveniently remembering that the Democrats would not have reached the 300 baht minimum wage in the first year. Therefore my statement is correct and factual. I you don't like it moan at the Dems!

[473geo]

Well that would be 7 more than under the previous government and should be a starting point to move on

You are now starting with 'if' questions. Apologies, but I am not in the habit of discussing hypothetical 'if' questions.

First it was "phasing in", and now it's "starting point".

Opposition parties at the next general election should take this absurd PTP supporters principle of "if a policy has been started in any way shape or form, that means it isn't failing" and run with it. Print up millions of posters to be spread around the nation promising 10 million baht deposited into the savings account of every voter, upon being elected... and then when they are, after one year deposit 10 baht into each account and assure the dissenting citizens (including red shirts who have by this stage started burning down the capital) that the promise hasn't been broken, but that it is simply being "phased in" and that the 10 baht deposit is just the "starting point".

I'm sure the opposition parties will take on board your sage advice........

[Moruya]

Well that would be 7 more than under the previous government and should be a starting point to move on

You are now starting with 'if' questions. Apologies, but I am not in the habit of discussing hypothetical 'if' questions.

You are conveniently forgetting the Dems' policies at the last election which were for a gradual increase. The PTP tried to trump it with their ill considered 300B scheme. I have no doubt the Dems' policy would have been far more successful to all

No I am conveniently remembering that the Democrats would not have reached the 300 baht minimum wage in the first year. Therefore my statement is correct and factual. I you don't like it moan at the Dems!

If the Dems had managed 80% of the population at 260b, that would be much better than the poor results we have

[473geo]

Well that would be 7 more than under the previous government and should be a starting point to move on

You are now starting with 'if' questions. Apologies, but I am not in the habit of discussing hypothetical 'if' questions.

You are conveniently forgetting the Dems' policies at the last election which were for a gradual increase. The PTP tried to trump it with their ill considered 300B scheme. I have no doubt the Dems' policy would have been far more successful to all

No I am conveniently remembering that the Democrats would not have reached the 300 baht minimum wage in the first year. Therefore my statement is correct and factual. I you don't like it moan at the Dems!

If the Dems had managed 80% of the population at 260b, that would be much better than the poor results we have

My understanding is that Abhisit promised the 300 baht minimum, but then reneged under pressure from employers.

Good luck to PTP for having the courage to take this task on, I sincerely hope they can succeed, because as the header article states 300 baht minimum is already falling behind living costs!

[Moruya]

My understanding is that Abhisit promised the 300 baht minimum, but then reneged under pressure from employers.

Good luck to PTP for having the courage to take this task on, I sincerely hope they can succeed, because as the header article states 300 baht minimum is already falling behind living costs!

I doubt very much the authenticity of that statement. When did Abhisit make such a promise?

PTP will be courageous of they do anything to make it happen. My guess is they won't take on the employers and will leave it to wither on the vine.

[473geo]

My understanding is that Abhisit promised the 300 baht minimum, but then reneged under pressure from employers.

Good luck to PTP for having the courage to take this task on, I sincerely hope they can succeed, because as the header article states 300 baht minimum is already falling behind living costs!

I doubt very much the authenticity of that statement. When did Abhisit make such a promise?

PTP will be courageous of they do anything to make it happen. My guess is they won't take on the employers and will leave it to wither on the vine.

I have no reason to lie.... ......discussion closed

[Moruya]

My understanding is that Abhisit promised the 300 baht minimum, but then reneged under pressure from employers.

Good luck to PTP for having the courage to take this task on, I sincerely hope they can succeed, because as the header article states 300 baht minimum is already falling behind living costs!

I doubt very much the authenticity of that statement. When did Abhisit make such a promise?

PTP will be courageous of they do anything to make it happen. My guess is they won't take on the employers and will leave it to wither on the vine.

I have no reason to lie.... ......discussion closed

A link would assist.

[rixalex]

My understanding is that Abhisit promised the 300 baht minimum, but then reneged under pressure from employers.

Good luck to PTP for having the courage to take this task on, I sincerely hope they can succeed, because as the header article states 300 baht minimum is already falling behind living costs!

I doubt very much the authenticity of that statement. When did Abhisit make such a promise?

PTP will be courageous of they do anything to make it happen. My guess is they won't take on the employers and will leave it to wither on the vine.

I have no reason to lie.... ......discussion closed

A link would assist.

The Dems did not promise a 300 baht minimum wage as part of their election campaign, but whether they did or not is academic, because they did not win, and as such, we'll never know what promises they would have kept and what promises they would have broken. They can't be judged on hypotheticals. Attempting to do so is simply an attempt to shift the focus away from what promises the PTP have kept and what promises they have broken..... sorry, i mean what promises they are "phasing in".

Edited August 19, 2012 by rixalex

[473geo]

http://www.thaivisa....ost__p__5504381

[OzMick]

I would have liked to see some hypotheticals bandied about, combined with a bit of Newtonian physics. That might have indicated that a sudden surge in the min. wage would have countering repercussions (aka inflation), with adverse effects for the nation. And that the rice pledging scheme wouldn't go as planned in some wanke_r's wet dream.

The term "educated idiot" takes on a whole new meaning in a country where nobody fails at school.

[rixalex]

http://www.thaivisa....ost__p__5504381

The article says that Abhisit mentioned the idea. That's a little different from promising it and running with it as a main election pledge.

Even if he did, the only way in which Abhisit promising the 300 baht minimum wage would have any relevance to this discussion, would be if the Dems had won the election and one year on they, like the PTP, had not done as they promised to do for the vast majority of people.

[Noistar]

I have no reason to lie.... ......discussion closed

A link would assist.

The Dems did not promise a 300 baht minimum wage as part of their election campaign, but whether they did or not is academic, because they did not win, and as such, we'll never know what promises they would have kept and what promises they would have broken. They can't be judged on hypotheticals. Attempting to do so is simply an attempt to shift the focus away from what promises the PTP have kept and what promises they have broken..... sorry, i mean what promises they are "phasing in".

I don't think a poster has the right to indicate 'discussion closed'. By all means feel free to stop contributing

This is one of the problems the PTP have of being given a Democratic mandate to introduce the policies they were elected to perform.

Unfortunately this Government has a ruling party with a significant majority. The Opposition are unable to perform their role effectively, so can't be blamed for any failure on the Government's part to introduce election promises in a timely manner.

So good or bad it's down to the ruling party.

Try as they might they can't avoid the fact - the buck stops with Ms Yingluck

[473geo]

I have no reason to lie.... ......discussion closed

A link would assist.

The Dems did not promise a 300 baht minimum wage as part of their election campaign, but whether they did or not is academic, because they did not win, and as such, we'll never know what promises they would have kept and what promises they would have broken. They can't be judged on hypotheticals. Attempting to do so is simply an attempt to shift the focus away from what promises the PTP have kept and what promises they have broken..... sorry, i mean what promises they are "phasing in".

I don't think a poster has the right to indicate 'discussion closed'. By all means feel free to stop contributing

This is one of the problems the PTP have of being given a Democratic mandate to introduce the policies they were elected to perform.

Unfortunately this Government has a ruling party with a significant majority. The Opposition are unable to perform their role effectively, so can't be blamed for any failure on the Government's part to introduce election promises in a timely manner.

So good or bad it's down to the ruling party.

Try as they might they can't avoid the fact - the buck stops with Ms Yingluck

Oh I think when people who lack a suitable repost descend to questioning a perfectly valid point, any poster has the right to walk away. (Thus on his part ending(or closing) his involvement)

Usually there is a subsequent gathering of a few like minded people who in their united ignorance also question the poster, then poorly veiled insults are the norm.............

If you require further verification of this comment..... see above .....see ya

Edited August 19, 2012 by 473geo

[rixalex]

Oh I think when people who lack a suitable repost descend to questioning a perfectly valid point, any poster has the right to walk away. (Thus on his part ending(or closing) his involvement)

Just for clarification, do you mean riposte?

[Noistar]

BANGKOK: -- The daily minimum wage increase to Bt300, in effect since April 1, has not kept pace with daily living costs, according to a survey reported yesterday by the Thai Labour Solidarity Committee (TLSC).

As of this past May, daily expenses averaged Bt462.31 - Bt113.92 more than August 2011, the survey said. Workers' debts rose to approximately 30 to 40 per cent of their incomes.

I find it useful to go back to the topic, rather than follow a PTP vs Democrats thread.

Clearly the increase in the minimum wage is not going to close the gap to 462.31bt. Was the increase ever intended to?

Rather than emphasis on a start to implementing the minimum wage in the manifesto, is this actually the start of an intention to give workers a living wage?

The diversionary tack of "Thai time" doesn't do justice to the ruling party. Is their progress such that their election pledge will be achieved? The Government was elected based on their policies being achieved (I assume) rather than being started.

Economics is a black art to me. In simple terms I assume that if a small business can afford to employ 3 people at 200bt, they can only afford to employ 2 people at 300bt.

If we are now saying that the additional 100bt reduces individual debt rather than increasing buying, there seems to be a more negative effect.

Then in addition, I imagine the cost of living is higher in Bangkok and other big cities.

I have no answers. I leave that to the politicians. I just observe that IMHO the minimum wage was never intended to create a living wage, which is no criticism of anyone.

[travelmann]

I dont agree with any minimum wages, staff Ive had sometimes werent worth 3 baht a day

[whybother]

My understanding is that Abhisit promised the 300 baht minimum, but then reneged under pressure from employers.

Good luck to PTP for having the courage to take this task on, I sincerely hope they can succeed, because as the header article states 300 baht minimum is already falling behind living costs!

The Democrats never offered 300 baht, but, based on the PTPs "implementation", if the business groups had forced a reduced minimum wage, that would have been a successful policy.

Sent from my HTC phone.

[Moruya]

I would have liked to see some hypotheticals bandied about, combined with a bit of Newtonian physics. That might have indicated that a sudden surge in the min. wage would have countering repercussions (aka inflation), with adverse effects for the nation. And that the rice pledging scheme wouldn't go as planned in some wanke_r's wet dream.

The term "educated idiot" takes on a whole new meaning in a country where nobody fails at school.

Newtonian?

V=U+At

Velocity = Dems Velocity + (PTP acceleration times the time of acceleration )

V is significantly less than a year ago

[Moruya]

http://www.thaivisa....ost__p__5504381

There certainly seems to be a case for what you have put forward but I can't find any details about what Abhisit actually said about a 300b per day minimum wage and the timing of it's implementation and it seemed to fade into the election mists.

It appears to be a couple of months before the election took place and maybe that's why it never came to fruition.

[scorecard]

I have a Female neighbour who earns 6,000 Baht a month and supports a family of five on it. I say support because she is the only one working at present and she has a Government job. Her salary is 300 Baht per day as a Hospital cleaner. Her sister had a good job on 8,000 a month in town until she had a Motorcycle accident, but now she is injured and cannot work for several months, she gets no wages at all until she returns to work but ,as she puts it, she is 'lucky' because her boss has told her he will hold her job open. Basically the family survives with only enough to buy very basic food supplies and people like my wife help them out with some extra food from our budget for the young 9 year old kid etc. The only man in the family is 85 and cannot work and the Mother is 79 and partially incapacitated. If there were five people earning the basic 300 a day they would be rich by Thai rural standards but many families have only one or two wage earners. There are literally hundreds of families living around our area alone that are just surviving and it seems plainly obvious to anyone with half a brain that it will stay this way for a long time to come, no matter which political party are at the helm.

And the current government (and to be fair pretty much all previous governments) still has made no mention of overriding policies to reduce the gap, to build infrastructure and policy which ensures better paying work opportunities are spread across the country, the populace is better educated and more capable, all intended to gain a better quality of life for a large proportion of the Thai populace.

There are many countries which have 'share the wealth' policies which push all of this into a better picture and are sustainable, Thailand could adopt some of these policies but it's clear this government has no intention of looking at this matter.

[Buchholz]

I have no reason to lie.... ......discussion closed

A link would assist.

The Dems did not promise a 300 baht minimum wage as part of their election campaign, but whether they did or not is academic, because they did not win, and as such, we'll never know what promises they would have kept and what promises they would have broken. They can't be judged on hypotheticals. Attempting to do so is simply an attempt to shift the focus away from what promises the PTP have kept and what promises they have broken..... sorry, i mean what promises they are "phasing in".

I don't think a poster has the right to indicate 'discussion closed'.

He's like that.

When shown he's wrong, it's 'discussion closed' time.

.

[aussiebebe]

While most Westerners tip 10% and Americans 15%+, one possible reason for the cost of living in Thailand having outstripped the wage increase could be that there no formal tipping policy in Thailand. For example, my local Shell car wash always charged a reasonable 60baht for a basic clean and I'd often tip 40 which follows no rules - I wouldn't give a 66% tip for a meal, for example. After the wage rise, however, the car wash shot up to 90b. I have no qualms about paying and accept that's probably the fair price, but I'm tipping less and getting my car washed less frequently. As tipping was never standardized (I have Thai friends who give the cost of the massage as a tip) discretionary purchases such as services will lose out.