Brutal Neo-Nazi Attack Of Chilean Gay Boy Energizes Chilean Gay Rights Activists

[Jingthing]

He's the Matthew Shepard of Chile: Daniel Zamudio.

This happened in March. Brutally attacked by neo-Nazis and later died of the injuries.

Chile is a successful country, but backwards with gay civil rights.

http://www.towleroad...udio-video.html

Seen in the video in this link, thousands of Chileans including many Chilean gay activists marched in the streets of Santiago to mourn Daniel at his funeral.

And guess what, something positive has been sparked by the tragic death of Daniel.

http://www.economist.com/node/21555943

ON March 3rd a young gay man, Daniel Zamudio, was beaten to a pulp in a park in Chile's capital, Santiago. His assailants carved swastikas on his body. He died in hospital three weeks later. Four men, alleged to have ties to a neo-Nazi group, have been charged with his murder. But the public outrage over Mr Zamudio's fate has had wider consequences: having languished in Congress for seven years, an anti-discrimination law has been hastily approved.

Getting murdered by Nazis isn't exactly what I have in mind as an ideal act of gay activism. Zamudio was just being himself, a gay young man. Yes he was another victim of an anti-gay hate crime. But here is another example of the potential power in the world of the actions or in this case, the tragic fate, of ONE person.

Edited August 19, 2012 by Jingthing

[endure]

I thought you said you were going to give it a rest? You appear to want a peace treaty as long as it's on your terms. I'm sure that Daniel's parents are grateful that you approve of his death as an act of gay activism even though it wasn't ideal. I've no doubt that all of Daniel's family are grateful that an anti-discrimination law has been hastily approved. On the other hand perhaps they'd prefer that he wasn't dead. Still - as long as it advances the cause of gay activism what do a few deaths matter.

[Jingthing]

Calm down, now.

Read the entire paragraph. Slowly. I made it very clearly that HE wasn't a gay activist. He was being himself, a young gay man. The tragedy DID inspire gay activists and ultimately the Chilean government. Obviously getting murdered wasn't a planned event with political intent. DUH!

I am really getting tired of being ganged up on ruthlessly by you and your cohort like its a blood sort. Please GET ANOTHER HOBBY.

The topic of this thread is very apt for a gay forum and if you don't like gay rights topics on a gay forum, just bloody do not read them, OK?

Anyway, back to the topic.

There is an up and coming gay Chilean musician who had a fan connection with Daniel and he was of course very moved by his death. He said:

Midway through last year a guy very much like many of you sent me a very nice video. I spoke to him through online chats a few times, just a really great guy. This year he was accosted at a park, they broke his legs, they extinguished cigarettes on him, they marked his stomach with swastikas. He was Daniel Zamudio.

Of course, this topic is incredibly relevant today. Let's hope we don't just leave it as some anecdote about what his favorite song was. Or a sense of revenge against the criminals who will be eventually judged. I just ask that we rise above and try to change something that is much greater and general about ourselves and our day to day lives.

We laugh at jokes about men with men and women with women, homophobic jokes on television, when we say fleto or we say maricón, so let's stop discriminating each other so that something like this will never happen again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=WsHkeKbodfMhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=WsHkeKbodfM

Edited August 20, 2012 by Jingthing

[endure]

I am really getting tired of being ganged up on ruthlessly by you and your cohort like its a blood sort. Please GET ANOTHER HOBBY.

You mean that you don't like other people having opinions that differ from yours? I don't have a 'cohort'. I have my own ideas and opinions. They disagree with yours. If you don't like it then tough.

[Jingthing]

I am really getting tired of being ganged up on ruthlessly by you and your cohort like its a blood sort. Please GET ANOTHER HOBBY.

You mean that you don't like other people having opinions that differ from yours? I don't have a 'cohort'. I have my own ideas and opinions. They disagree with yours. If you don't like it then tough.

Your opinion here was personally abusive and was a deliberate, noxious distortion of the meaning of my sincere post.. You're just in it for your personal vendetta. You deny it but any objective observer can see the pattern. If you want to comment on the TOPIC, please do. But please get off my ass with your abusive personalization. Edited August 20, 2012 by Jingthing

[endure]

I am really getting tired of being ganged up on ruthlessly by you and your cohort like its a blood sort. Please GET ANOTHER HOBBY.

You mean that you don't like other people having opinions that differ from yours? I don't have a 'cohort'. I have my own ideas and opinions. They disagree with yours. If you don't like it then tough.

Your opinion here was personally abusive and was a deliberate, noxious distortion of the meaning of my sincere post.. You're just in it for your personal vendetta. You deny it but any objective observer can see the pattern. If you want to comment on the TOPIC, please do. But please get off my ass with your abusive personalization.

Here's a quote from a disinterested observer:

"Wow..I'm not gay. But wow.

I can fully understand why there is not much traffic here. Jingthing the hero of ALL gay people as long as you toe his line of thought. If not he will batter the hell out of you verbally. Maybe a good idea to have a gay forum and a Jingthing forum. Every body happy then "

[Jingthing]

It's funny really. Over time we have had some non-gay posters come on to support LC and Endure and trash me. Usually they turn out to make blatantly homophobic remarks. Just saying. That is the pattern.

In case my OP was unclear. I do NOT think Daniel was a gay activist! Read the paragraph in CONTEXT to get my actual meaning.

Edited August 20, 2012 by Jingthing

[endure]

[Jingthing]

The topic is about CHILE and the events there related in the OP. The topic is NOT about me. Thank you.

In the case nobody actually wants to talk about these events in Chile which is what the thread is about, please just let thread die a natural death.

More gay culture from Chile from that same musician:

Edited August 20, 2012 by Jingthing

[LeCharivari]

A tragedy - a real tragedy.

That something good has come out of it (" Mr Zamudio's horrible fate has helped to make the country a bit more tolerant.") is little consolation to his family and friends.

That what has come out of it is due to "public outrage" and nothing else is self-evident.

JT, I had thought better of you than to use a young man's tragic and horrific death to continue to play your childish little games here. Shame on you.

[Jingthing]

A tragedy - a real tragedy.

That something good has come out of it (" Mr Zamudio's horrible fate has helped to make the country a bit more tolerant.") is little consolation to his family and friends.

That what has come out of it is due to "public outrage" and nothing else is self-evident.

JT, I had thought better of you than to use a young man's tragic and horrific death to continue to play your childish little games here. Shame on you.

Stop your personal insults. Just stop it. You never thought better of me. It seems your life revolves around insulting me and my country.

Before I offered you a peace pipe and you never once acknowledged it. Instead, you went on a bigger war path as if trying to make peace was seen as a sign of weakness to you.

Of course his family and friends would rather have him than any changes in Chile that his death spurred. That is understood. That is a given. It is so obviously IMPLIED that there was no need to speak it. SPARE me your crocodile tears about this poor boy. You didn't know him.

Of course given this boy did have to die ... it happened ... I actually DO think it probably is some consolation to the family that there is going to be a meaning to his death that makes a difference in their country.

Anyway, THE ECONOMIST thinks differently about the impact of this tragic death:

But the public outrage over Mr Zamudio's fate has had wider consequences: having languished in Congress for seven years, an anti-discrimination law has been hastily approved.

Edited August 20, 2012 by Jingthing

[LeCharivari]

Anyway, THE ECONOMIST thinks differently:

But the public outrage over Mr Zamudio's fate has had wider consequences: having languished in Congress for seven years, an anti-discrimination law has been hastily approved.

I still read "public outrage".

This sort of distortion of a news article in an opening post, to support one continuing and tired theme, really goes beyond what is acceptable and there is nothing "funny" about it anymore. The subject (Daniel Zamudio) deserves better than this.

[Jingthing]

Rather than respond to your TROLL BAIT, I will just repeat the sentence from The Economist. Intelligent readers can see what the Economist thinks happened. I agree this isn't funny. Not Daniel's death. Not your obsessive character attack on me either.

But the public outrage over Mr Zamudio's fate has had wider consequences: having languished in Congress for seven years, an anti-discrimination law has been hastily approved.

How about a numbered list:

1. Tragic Death

2. Public Outrage (a consequence of the tragic death)

3. Chilean government responded to the public outrage and moved Chile forward in gay civil rights (a consequence of the public outrage that was a consequence of the tragic death)

No of course I am not suggesting gay boys should try to be brutally murdered in order to further the gay civil rights movements in their countries. In case you're wondering.

For the record, I am FOR gay civil rights. I am AGAINST tragic murders. It's pretty weird that I have to say that explicitly. Something that is OBVIOUS. But that's what happens when you have someone relentlessly sniping at you for reasons I can't begin to comprehend.

Back to the topic. Please folks, the topic is the murder of Daniel and gay civil rights in CHILE. The topic is not about ME. Please respect the topic or leave it alone.

Edited August 20, 2012 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

To clarify more, yes ... OBVIOUSLY ... a big part of the public outrage and national debate part of the progression of the events was DIRECTLY INSTIGATED by Chilean gay activists. It doesn't matter whether some people for whatever twisted agenda push the absurd dogma that gay activists don't have a HUGE role in furthering gay civil rights in many countries. Or didn't in this case in Chile. Because the truth is the truth. The history is the history.

Long live the memory of Daniel Zamudio and may the history books also reflect the vital role of the Chilean gay activists in the continuing struggle for gay civil rights in Chile, a country that has been plagued with a very toxic variety of homophobia for the ages.

Gay rights activists in Chile are calling on the government to get tough on hate crimes.

Their campaign has taken on renewed urgency after the death of 24-year-old Daniel Zamudio, who was severely beaten because of his sexual orientation.

Even the victim's family lawyer is clearly a GAY ACTIVIST!:

Instead of finding fault with only the assailants, the Zamudio family lawyer, Jamie Parada, blamed the Chilean government. He found them to be “morally guilty” due to their slowness in legislating against the discrimination and hate crimes continuously experienced by the LGBT community.

...

Human rights organizations have long criticized Chile’s resistance to passing anti-discriminaton laws with punitive powers that will justly address violations. Under Parada’s leadership, the public outcry over Zamudio’s beating was channeled into a movement calling for more stringent anti-discrimation laws to be implemented. Through his willingness to promote the taboo topic of gay rights and push his country’s culture towards equality, Parada exhibited moral courage.

...

Parada and other activists have spoken at candlelight vigils throughout Chile for Zamudio, drumming the beat for change. As Parada sees it, Daniel Zamudio is becoming a “symbol of the cause…of integration, coexistence and the repudiation of homophobia….”

Under pressure from leaders like Parada and in the media spotlight, Chile’s elected officials on both sides of the aisle are ramping up the strength of the current anti-discrimination law. Government officials are even considering naming the law the “Ley Zamudio” (Zamudio Law), symbolizing that Zamudio did not die in vain.

http://www.moralcour...nd-legislation/

Edited August 20, 2012 by Jingthing

[endure]

Back to the topic. Please folks, the topic is the murder of Daniel and gay civil rights in CHILE. The topic is not about ME. Please respect the topic or leave it alone.

There you go again.Telling us what we ought to post.

[Jingthing]

Back to the topic. Please folks, the topic is the murder of Daniel and gay civil rights in CHILE. The topic is not about ME. Please respect the topic or leave it alone.

There you go again.Telling us what we ought to post.

There is nothing wrong and actually a lot right with any poster REQUESTING that people stop over PERSONALIZING the topics here. Again, the topic is Chile related. The topic is not about me. Cheers.

Again it's really OK if nobody is actually interested in talking about the topic of the Daniel Zamudio murder and its aftermath. I think there was some value in posting about it because it's an important story related to homophobia and the gay civil rights movement in an newly rich South American country. Yes it is an emotionally touching story in a similar way that the murder of Matthew Shepard in the USA had such impact. That is why Daniel Zamudio is called the Matthew Shepard of Chile. I reckon it may be news to most people reading this thread.

If there actually exists a fact based objection about the connection I made to gay activism in all sincerity and good faith, there is no need to make this about a personal attack. No need to play silly GOTCHA guilt games and clucking SHAME SHAME SHAME like a gaggle of frigid church ladies.

If anyone has EVIDENCE that gay activists had nothing to do with bringing the civil rights forward in the wake of Daniel Zamudio's murder, by all means, present it. I have presented evidence they did have an important role. I would welcome EVIDENCE of the contrary as that could make for an interesting and ON TOPIC debate.

Edited August 21, 2012 by Jingthing

[Scott]

RIP Daniel.

[Jingthing]

Yes, those pictures of him in the video are really heart breaking. What a horrible ordeal he went through. It's just universal human nature that more people do relate and feel sympathy to victims of tragedies that involve young people and children. A reason that both the cases of Matthew Shepard and recently Daniel Zamudio have such lasting resonance. But the media and publicity is weird. There are thousands of these kinds of anti-gay violence cases all over the world, and why a very few "hit it" into fame can be somewhat of a mystery. Well, just somewhat really, because both the Shepard and the Zamudio incidents involved a sympathetically good looking young man both subject to remarkably horrific BRUTAL attacks by multiple thugs.

Edited August 21, 2012 by Jingthing

[Scott]

There are a lot of things that contribute to the perception. Timing is important. What happens today would have been viewed differently 30 years ago--or maybe 3 months ago. Family, friends and the community also need to keep things in the forefront.

For me, it's the loss of what might have been and the hurt the family feels.

[LeCharivari]

... Timing is important. What happens today would have been viewed differently 30 years ago--or maybe 3 months ago. ...

You are right, Scott - the murder actually occurred 5 months ago and the law was amended "3 months ago".

Timing IS important, though - as starting a thread about "gay rights activists" based circuitously on what happened several months ago may just be coincidental ...

.... If anyone has EVIDENCE that gay activists had nothing to do with bringing the civil rights forward in the wake of Daniel Zamudio's murder, by all means, present it. I have presented evidence they did have an important role. I would welcome EVIDENCE of the contrary as that could make for an interesting and ON TOPIC debate.

I am simply going by who your link in The Economist credited - "public outrage".

Jamie Parada (the "family lawyer") is not so much "clearly a GAY ACTIVIST!" as the director of Chile's Gay Liberation Movement, so hardly an objective observer when such organisations are claiming credit.

I see NO "EVIDENCE" - simply YOUR OPINION and his. Its rather difficult to give "EVIDENCE" to disprove something that hasn't happened - rather like my claiming that there was a lightning storm in Pattaya "OBVIOUSLY" because I kicked a street-light in Ban Amphur which "DIRECTLY INSTIGATED" it and asking you to "present ...EVIDENCE" that I'm making it up. It's "OBVIOUSLY" nonsense, but there's no "EVIDENCE of the contrary"

[thaicbr]

Hi all. My post in another thread has been mentioned.

So just a few words.

1st RIP Daniel.

Jingthing. Thanks for posting the information. Information like this should be seen by as many people as possible.

* Edited out*

There do seem to be 2 camps here on TV gay forum.

Activists with a gay 'identity ' and others who just have a life and want to chat.

Both can do that IF a little thought is used. I may be wrong about this if so sorry.

On a personal note I see mainly outrage rather than gay activists as the strongest way the new law came into being.

sent from my Wellcom A90+

Edited August 21, 2012 by Scott
Edited

[Jingthing]

Back to Chile. Change doesn't happen in a vacuum. There have been Chilean gay activist orgs working there for many years. There has been severe homophobia there for many years. There have been violent attacks of gay people there for many years. (And sadly even with new law, these attacks will continue, you don't magically change society with legislation.) So let's consider what would have happened in Chile in the wake of the murder of Daniel if there had been no groundwork of a gay civil rights movement, and no MASSIVE public reaction on the streets of Santiago in response to the death of Daniel which anyone can CLEARLY see involved a large gay advocate element. The press would have covered the story. The story would have died. It needed more to become a story that instigated legal change in Chile. It needed massive support on the streets, it needed the lawyer of Daniel's family to make the link of homophobic violence and the need for new legislation -- all this clearly created a new atmosphere in Chile, yes you can say exploiting sympathy for Daniel as if that is a bad thing and it is not a bad thing, where it became politically possible for this new legislation to pass. Without the gay activist support making yet another violent attack on a gay man in Chile into the huge deal that it became, my OPINION is this chain of events would have never happened.

Edited August 21, 2012 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

Nobel Prize-winning Peruvian author comments on the Zamudio case, homophobic violence in Latin America, and related topics. Now this link is really very fascinating:

http://76crimes.com/...o-vargas-llosa/

“The issue is not political but religious and cultural. From time immemorial, we were taught the strange idea that there is a sexual orthodoxy that only sick perverts and crazy people deviate from, and we have passed that nonsense on to our children, grandchildren and great grandchildren, aided by religious dogmas, moral codes and honored customs.”

“Much has been done in the fight against racism, no doubt, without eliminating it entirely. Today, at least you know you should not discriminate against blacks, Asians, Jews, cholos and Indians. Declaring oneself a racist is in very bad taste.

“The same doesn’t apply when it comes to gays, lesbians and transsexuals. They may be despised and abused with impunity. They are the most eloquent proof of how far removed the world is from being truly civilized.”

Edited August 21, 2012 by Jingthing

[Scott]

One post has been edited and other posts deleted.

Please stay on the topic.

[LeCharivari]

While I agree with Martin Luther King that "Legislation won't change the heart, but it will restrain the heartless" and that this legislation was badly needed and long overdue in Chile, I can't help feeling a little bit sad that it was needed at all and that some countries are forced to resort to legislation instead of education and integration.

Australia, for example, has very little formal equal rights/anti-discrimination legislation, but after the most horrific abuse and ethnic cleansing of its native population and the end of the White Australia policy it has become one of the most ethnically diverse countries in the world and one where "equality" is simply taken for granted by most Australians regardless of their ethnicity, gender or sexual preference - generally, people are simply judged on their own merits. I'm not saying that racism and bigotry don't exist (yes, we still have neo-Nazis) but they're very much in the minority and the legislation due there is to make sure that any small "heartless" minority obey the rules that the majority already want applied.

Maybe the public outrage that followed this horrific murder will prove to be a turning point in Chile's history and Chileans will learn from it.

[Ijustwannateach]

If I see another topic descend into personal acrimony like this, JT, LCV, and Endure: you will ALL enjoy lengthy posting holidays. That's as direct as I can be.

[manarak]

RIP Daniel.

Good for Chilean Gays.

Thailand related?

[ITGabs]

the problem is that the government on Chile is like republicans/business interest, not social at all, very influenced by extreme christian religious beliefs, so they never will approve that law, and this was not publish for nothing they are using this to move the people to the left/socialist government with social more social benefits, so the new president can get all the votes from the gay community offering nondiscrimination laws etc.

[LeCharivari]

... they never will approve that law ...

They have ALREADY approved the law - it was passed by both houses of parliament with considerable margins and signed into effect by President Piñera on 12 July.

It is still controversial, with some groups claiming it does not go far enough as it still allows discrimination if "fundamental principles" of the constitution are involved, such as academic freedom or freedom of religion, but it specifically bans discrimination on the grounds of gender or sexual orientation and has certainly been approved after a delay of nearly seven years.

It was originally tabled in 2005 following the Inter-American Court of Human Rights' ruling against the Chilean Supreme Court denying Karen Atala (herself a Chilean judge) custody of her own children purely because she was in a lesbian relationship, but nothing happened until Zamudio's horrific murder which was undeniably the catalyst.

Curiously enough, President Piñera is the country's first right-wing president since General Pinochet in 1990 and although he is undeniably right-wing and has considerable business interests (he is worth about 2.5 billion dollars, mainly self-made) and has a very different outlook to his predecessor (Michelle Bachelet, a Socialist, agnostic, separated mother of three whose father died and who was herself exiled under Pinochet) he has some very progressive views both socially and as an environmentalist. He established a foundation, headed by his wife, to help young, poor women set up their own businesses and is a leading environmentalist. Most interestingly for this forum, but probably best the subject of a separate thread, in May last year he personally tabled a bill (Acuerdo de Vida en Pareja) to give gay couples similar parental / social welfare / inheritance / health care rights and benefits as married couples - but specifically not same-sex marriage, which he opposed.

[Ijustwannateach]

Manarak wins another warning point for asking if something is Thailand related in the gay subforum. Please do check out the subforum guidelines before posting.