Extradition With Uk & Thailand

[Bingo66]

Hello Guys,

Have a bit of a problem here with a family member (cousin) and i'm forced to help him, as much as I would like to stay from. We have been speaking to some lawyers and basically, it's a mixed response. The situation:

He is on pre charged bail, not convicted of anything yet, but it's guaranteed 3 - 5 years in prison and loss of assets.

I’m not close to this person but unfortunately he shares my surname and needs my help. He had 100 Marijuana plants in England, the English police found them and him, and he has a court date next week, lawyers in the UK predicted him 4 years of prison and the police will confiscate his properties and assets. However if he doesn’t go to court and get charged with the crime, they cannot take his assets, he is now in Thailand so he will not go to court this month. He will stay in Thailand for rest of his life (he’s 60 years old already) however, he will have a warrant out for his arrest for skipping court next week in England, however ….. the police knows he will be in Thailand because he has a bank here and a condo which they found paperwork for.

Can they and will they extradite him? And most importantly, when he makes the visa at immigration and/or visa runs (To Laos / Cambodia) will his passport be flagged? And will they extradite him?

[Mario2008]

They will extradite him, without any problem and come knocking at his door.

Further, the conviction in connection with drugs would be reason for the Thai government to expell him and deny him entry. They will certianly know of his drug conviction if an extradition request is forwarded. They might not know if he goes to the UK and stand trail there by himself.

[David48]

My first thoughts are ... what happens when his Passport expires (he's only 60) and he has to renew it?

Or is he planning to not worry about any Visa for Thailand and just go dark?

[Bingo66]

They will extradite him, without any problem and come knocking at his door.

Further, the conviction in connection with drugs would be reason for the Thai government to expell him and deny him entry. They will certianly know of his drug conviction if an extradition request is forwarded. They might not know if he goes to the UK and stand trail there by himself.

If he doesn't stand stand trial in the UK, he wont be convicted, can they still extradite? I presume he will be warranted for bail jumping?

What's the chances of the UK forwarding a extradition request? It's not a whole lot of marijuana to be honest, but the reason the sentence is going to be 3 - 4 years is because it's growing rather than selling (which is strange?)

[Bingo66]

My first thoughts are ... what happens when his Passport expires (he's only 60) and he has to renew it?

Or is he planning to not worry about any Visa for Thailand and just go dark?

I believe he has 10 years on his passport at least, isn't it possible to renew a passport as well via post with hong kong? If it's a domestic warrant and not international.

I also think after 6 years they cannot take his assets.

[Mario2008]

Can't say about the chances, that is better asked to an experienced Uk lawyer. But in the case they have reason to believe he will be in Thailand, there is good change they will notify the Thai police. And drug offences are taken very serious in Thailand.

The fact that he is wanted is reason enough to ask for his arrest and extradition. In fact most people wanted are not convicted yet. In recent years the Thai immigraiton police is more active in arresting people who are wanted abroad, including Uk nationals.

As has been said, he will not get a new passport when on the run.

[JanKlaasen]

If he doesn't stand stand trial in the UK, he wont be convicted, can they still extradite?

You could ask Assagne.

[Riley'sLife]

From the circumstances that you outline he should return to the UK, attend court, state his defense case, and accept his punishment if found guilty.

You could potentially face charges by assisting him, and you should be giving him the above advice only.

Clearly the UK police have sufficient information on this clown to be able to both track him down and to extradite him and to seize his assets. If he is intent on evading arrest, then up to him, but he will be living -looking over his shoulder- and then will still be caught, because the Thai Police WILL assist, make no mistake.

Tell him what everyone already knows. "If you can't do the time - don't do the crime!"

[Bingo66]

I do agree, however, family is family and if I refuse to help even with giving advice, what kind of person does that make me? He didn't rape anyone or sell any harsh drugs, so I don't have a problem gathering some advice.

However, even if he waited 6 years and went back, he would get to keep his assets.

Just a few more questions so I can explore best possible options:

If he doesn't have 10 years on his passport (im not 100%) would he able to renew it in the next 5 weeks via HK? Or would it be impossible after the court date?

If he was caught in 10 years or 2 years with an invalid passport and no visa. How long would he spend in a Thailand jail if he paid the fines?

[JanKlaasen]

I do agree, however, family is family and if I refuse to help even with giving advice, what kind of person does that make me? He didn't rape anyone or sell any harsh drugs, so I don't have a problem gathering some advice.

However, even if he waited 6 years and went back, he would get to keep his assets.

Just a few more questions so I can explore best possible options:

If he doesn't have 10 years on his passport (im not 100%) would he able to renew it in the next 5 weeks via HK? Or would it be impossible after the court date?

If he was caught in 10 years or 2 years with an invalid passport and no visa. How long would he spend in a Thailand jail if he paid the fines?

As far as I know you can't renew a passport before it expires, and if he get caught with a invalid passport he will stay in Thai jail untill he has a ticket to return to the UK.

[Mario2008]

Can't tel you if his passport is flagged, so they will not issue a new one.

Overstay normally means that he will be arrested and have to pay a fine and have a ticket out of the country. The fine would be 500 baht a day with a maximum of 20,000 baht. When that is paid they will detain him till he has a ticket out of the country to the UK (or another country where he cannot be denied with a UK passport).

But in his case when there is a request for his arrest, they might arrest him for that and go ahead with extradition procedures or just tell him to buy a direct ticket to the UK after he has paid his overstay.

Jailtime for overstay is normally only when one doesn't have the money to pay the fine.

[NBD]

I'd stay right the hell away from that, family or not. As you've said you're not close with him anyway and all that can really come from it is trouble, grief and a 60 something year old man sleeping on your couch with no money, no visa and no hope.

Tell him to man up, face the charges and get on with his life. Even if he gets and serves the full 4 years (I would guess that's the higher end of the spectrum for that offence) then he'll be out aged 64 with no skeletons in his closet, and only a couple of years shy of a state pension.

As for assets, I highly doubt they're going to seize his house, car or pension for a few pot plants. If he had a few grands worth of cash lying around then he might be shit out of luck, but unless he is a pretty major drug dealer with no other source of income over the last few decades then it should be easy enough to prove he paid for that by legitimate means.

[Bingo66]

Thanks for the info guys, yes I agree about couch thing, not a chance, I got a work permit and a life of my own.

2 final questions:

Can you renew from Thailand if it has only 2 years on it?

It's confirmed, if you got money and you have been living illegally in Thailand, you won't go to jail if you can afford a ticket, fine and or bribes?

Thanks guys, feel like have all the info we need now.

[rixalex]

I do agree, however, family is family and if I refuse to help even with giving advice, what kind of person does that make me?

It's not like he has been framed for something he didn't do. Don't see why you should feel any obligation to get involved or why you should waste any time trying to compile advice in how he can evade the law. Just tell him to go home and face things like a man. Besides being the right thing to do, it is the only long term solution anyway. Don't delay the inevitable. Things will catch up with him eventually, and when they do, they'll be ten times worse.

[CharlieH]

If the Police are already aware of the Thailand connection or any foreign residence come to that they can and will apply to the court for his passport to be revoked. Any attempt to renew or replace that passport will send alarm bells ringing. The passport he has will fill rather rapidly if he has to do border runs.Often passports are full way before they expire.

Edited August 23, 2012 by CharlieH

[Tafia]

I believe he has 10 years on his passport at least, isn't it possible to renew a passport as well via post with hong kong? If it's a domestic warrant and not international.

You apply to Hong Kong but it's issued from the UK.

[TommoPhysicist]

They will extradite him, without any problem and come knocking at his door.

Further, the conviction in connection with drugs would be reason for the Thai government to expell him and deny him entry. They will certianly know of his drug conviction if an extradition request is forwarded. They might not know if he goes to the UK and stand trail there by himself.

If he doesn't stand stand trial in the UK, he wont be convicted, can they still extradite? I presume he will be warranted for bail jumping?

What's the chances of the UK forwarding a extradition request? It's not a whole lot of marijuana to be honest, but the reason the sentence is going to be 3 - 4 years is because it's growing rather than selling (which is strange?)

My pal in Cornwall was caught with a whole 'grow-house' full of cannabis, despite being a serial offender he was given 4 weeks community service. Rented house though and he doesn't have assets. Are you sure?

[Cuchulainn]

I had a friend who was wanted in the UK. The Thai police came to his house and he was taken to BKK Remand Prison (Bang Kwang) where he was imprisoned for 6 months while waiting for extradition papers to be served. Eventually, he was escorted back to Heathrow by 2 British coppers on a BA flight.

So, YES, if he is wanted in the UK, he will be extradited.

[theoldgit]

There is the infamous guy down in Hua Hin, I will not name him, he skipped bail after being committed for trial in Sheffield for a big time drugs offence. He moved to Thailand, where he was allegedly involved in some property scams, his Thai wife was charged with the attempted murder of a US guy in Hua Hin who complained about these scams.

There was a warrant for his arrest in Sheffield, and the police, Thai and UK knew of his whereabouts, he lives in a massive house in Hua Hin, he is still there.

So yes your family member could be extradited, but whether the UK or Thai police will bother, well that's another story.

Of course all of the other issues, passport etc, still remain.

[TommoPhysicist]

So yes your family member could be extradited, but whether the UK or Thai police will bother, well that's another story.

Finally, a voice of reason.

Extradition for a crime involving 10-20k (UKP) of product doesn't seem all that certain.

Edited August 23, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[simple1]

So yes your family member could be extradited, but whether the UK or Thai police will bother, well that's another story.

Finally, a voice of reason.

Extradition for a crime involving 10-20k (UKP) of product doesn't seem all that certain.

+1 And as you said seems like a very heavy sentence for 100 plants. Maybe the very maximum if he has prior convictions

[rixalex]

So yes your family member could be extradited, but whether the UK or Thai police will bother, well that's another story.

Finally, a voice of reason.

Extradition for a crime involving 10-20k (UKP) of product doesn't seem all that certain.

I think it is safe to say, if the lawyers are predicting a 4 year sentence, there is more to the story than meets the eye. You don't go down for four years for something trifling.

[MAJIC]

If he doesn't stand stand trial in the UK, he wont be convicted, can they still extradite?

You could ask Assagne.

Thailand has had an Extradition Treaty with the UK since around 1927. (give or take a year or two)

Whether the UK request one in the case of your Cousin is anyone's guess!

Edited August 23, 2012 by MAJIC

[disagree]

Not sure why you care so much about his passport renewal.

Let him disappear himself w/o visa-runs nor valid passports if he can survive in Thailand under some other name. There's enough places that will rent out an apartment without valid papers if the money is there on time.

The only thing he will have to ever worry about is running into police controls ( don't have ID on me, some fake paper or some money changing owners ) and not running out of money.

[Mario2008]

people can live a long time unnoticed on overstay. But in the end he will get caught.

If he stays in thailand the Thai govenment will eventually be aware of him, through international arrest warrent or overstay and contacting his embassy and that will be the end of his stay in Thailand, with the possibility of not being allowed back in.

If he wants to have a future in Thailand, he better goes back to the UK and work things out there rather then in Thailand.

[colinthailand20005]

The UK police will just sit on this until he returns. No extradition request would be made for such a crime. If there was excessive violence involved or a high profile case then maybe but from what you have said. He will be ok. When the police block passport renewals it only affects the UK issuing offices not ones abroad because one would have to be able to return home.

He is not a serious criminal and could easily live happily every after in Thailand without any problems I think.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect App

[7by7]

If his UK lawyer has predicted a 4 year sentence then, as said previously, there is more to this than you have said. Does he have previous?

I'm not surprised he was able to leave the UK whilst on bail; one of the problems with the UK not checking passports on exit. However, there is no doubt that he is flagged in the system and any attempt by him to renew his passport will bring him to the attention of the UK authorities. He wont get a new passport and then he will be in Thailand with no valid passport and no visa. First time he is stopped by the Thai police and asked for identification, he's in a Thai prison.

Whether the UK police will bother to attempt his extradition from Thailand is not known; maybe they will, maybe they wont.

Whether they have informed the Thai authorities is also not known. If they have, then he risks arrest every time he does a border run.

I understand that he is a family member and you feel obligated to offer him advice. But rather than trying to find ways of him staying on the run in Thailand, the best advice you can give him is to return to the UK and face the music.

Some might say it's just a bit of weed, what's it matter. We can argue that point till the cows come home. I stopped smoking it many years ago after I witnessed at first hand the damage it did to a close friend. (He may have had schizophrenic tendencies anyway, but his doctors said the dope definitely made it a lot worse. It got so bad he killed himself. So don't tell me it's harmless.)

[disagree]

Overstayed in TH for over a year. Successfully talked myself through police checks by... not talking about it and just showing some regular ID/drivers license ( no expiration ) and not the passport. If they'd asked, passport is @ hotel. Were drug checks anyway

If you don't get into trouble - that is accidents, illegal wrong-doings, misbehaving, and don't mingle with authorities ( by acting neutral, non-caring and non-hostile/non-evasive etc. ) you can stay in TH for a looong time.

[disagree]

That's why the scum of the earth actually hides here.

[Bingo66]

The reason the sentence is so big is due to a heavy previous (cannabis selling again) and not paid any tax in 20 years.

They are claiming he makes 500,000 a year, which is crap of course.

He has income and money, he can live here for ever and go unnoticed. I'm happy for him to do it, I will get him settled and then away from me, I've been here 5 years and never needed to show passport. He will do this if it's confirmed he won't go to jail for over stay if he pays and goes back to UK if caught.

And don't blame me, i'm legal and pay more tax than most thai's earn. Thanks for advice guys, as you can imagine I have my family begging me to help and it's hard to say no.