คน - Nationality Or Ethnicity?

[MaxwellsDemon]

As an Asian-Canadian this has been bothering me for a while. In English, I tell people I'm Canadian, I have Canadian citizenship, I grew up there, etc etc etc. When I tell people I'm not Thai, I reply with kon Canada, which seems to make them get confused, since I'm not white. I then try and remedy it by saying my parents are Asian, but I'm still wondering what is implied with the word คน. I guess it's only until quite recently that all the คน Canada/America/Angrit that the Thais would encounter are white, that there never was much to be noticed.

Does คน mean nationality or ethnicity? Is there a concrete difference in the Thai language?

[siampreggers]

You were born in Korea, of Korean parents. You are Korean.

I then try and remedy it by saying my parents are Asian

You are Asian, as are your parents.

Ethnicity matters in this case, not what country outside your birth country you happen to have citizenship to.

[Peppy]

This isn't really so much of a language issue as it is one of awareness. I used to work with a white South African, and he always got the same look of confusion when he told people where he was from. While "Siampreggers" says you're Korean, I'd say that if you were born in Canada, or identify as Canadian (and have Canadian citizenship), then you're Canadian. Simply explaining that your parents are/were Korean, but you're Canadian, and leaving it at that, is really the best you can do. If some people have trouble getting their heads around this, so be it.

[Peppy]

Ethnicity matters in this case, not what country outside your birth country you happen to have citizenship to.

But what is ethnicity, really? What if the OP was in fact born in Canada? Does that change anything here?

I myself was born in Canada, as were my parents, and my grandparents on both sides. But my great-grandparents (again on both sides) were from England. Should I tell people I'm English?

[siampreggers]

Ethnicity matters in this case, not what country outside your birth country you happen to have citizenship to.

But what is ethnicity, really? What if the OP was in fact born in Canada? Does that change anything here?

I myself was born in Canada, as were my parents, and my grandparents on both sides. But my great-grandparents (again on both sides) were from England. Should I tell people I'm English?

I think you need to back to school. Perhaps around the 4th grade level.

[Peppy]

And to answer the question of whether คน refers to nationality or ethnicity: It depends on whether you think they're the same thing or not. If you do, then I'm English, you're Korean, all people of demonstrably mixed heritage are stateless, and the only Canadians are the people who were there before everybody else.

To me, คน means nationality only. If I'm talking about race, I say เชื้อชาติ.

But, since most Thais, never having given much thought to the matter, would say that race and nationality are the same thing, you could perhaps lessen the confusion by saying, "เป็นคนเกาหลี แต่ถือสัญชาติแคนาดา" - "I'm Korean, but I have Canadian citizenship." It may not be true, but it will make conversation smoother--and we all know that smooth conversation is far more important than truth. And besides, Koreans are way cooler than Canadians in Thai eyes.

Edited August 24, 2012 by Peppy

[Radar501]

I was born in Australia, hold Australian citizenship, and my forefathers have Welsh background.

When a Thai person wants to know my background, I explain that I am คน Australia, but ชาว Wales/Europe, and that seems to get nods of understanding.

When I refer to Native Australians, I say ชาว Australia, and explain the dark skin etc. I previously used another word for the Aborigines, I think it was คนพื้นเมือง Australia. I'm not sure if that word is 100% correct, but I used to got lots of nods.

[Peppy]

Ethnicity matters in this case, not what country outside your birth country you happen to have citizenship to.

But what is ethnicity, really? What if the OP was in fact born in Canada? Does that change anything here?

I myself was born in Canada, as were my parents, and my grandparents on both sides. But my great-grandparents (again on both sides) were from England. Should I tell people I'm English?

I think you need to back to school. Perhaps around the 4th grade level.

Can't be bothered. Care to enlighten me yourself?

[siampreggers]

but ชาว Wales/Europe, and that seems to get nods of understanding.

Thais knowing of Wales. I find that hard to believe.

More than likely nods in order to keep social harmony and face.

Edited August 24, 2012 by siampreggers

[MaxwellsDemon]

Where the hell did Korea enter the mix? Why can't I be from Vietnam? Or Japan?

Trust me, we Asian-Canadians have had our fair share of "who are we?" and ridiculous theories on who I am and I don't need to be reading that again. I'm not asking for identity help, I'm asking for language help.

And to answer the question of whether คน refers to nationality or ethnicity: It depends on whether you think they're the same thing or not.

A) thank you for being the only post trying to answer the question, but as much as I'd like to have that kind of power, I'm pretty sure what I think doesn't matter at all. It's whether the Thais think there's a difference or not.

And just to stir the pot, then what if I were Thai? Should an American of Thai decent tell people here he is คนไทย in broken Thai, or would that be even more confusing for ya'll?

[meadish_sweetball]

Thais do not all think the same even if it is possible to generalize.

คน in and of itself just means person (singular) or people/persons (plural), and the rest is down to the individual speaker's idea of nationality/ethnicity, like Peppy says. In your first post you already mentioned noticing that many Thais show surprise when somebody does not fit their idea of what the world is like. This is common.

I think เป็นคนแคนาดา เชื้อชาติเกาหลี is very clear and if people still think that is difficult to understand, then I would call it their problem, not yours.

[Peppy]

Where the hell did Korea enter the mix? Why can't I be from Vietnam? Or Japan?

Whoops, I guess I didn't read your post carefully enough. The first reply said you were Korean, and I just assumed there was something in the OP to back that up. Sorry!

It's whether the Thais think there's a difference or not.

Most don't. The idea that all the people who were born in Thailand and look "Thai" are of the "Thai race" is more or less pounded into everybody from the day they're born, and relatively few have ever stopped to think about the truth of this or how the distinction applies in other countries. So you can either try to tell them the truth and watch their faces go all funny, or you can just tell them you're such-and-such Asian nationality but have Canadian citizenship/were born in Canada, and get on with the conversation.

[NewlyMintedThai]

Thais have no trouble with the concept of "Thai-Americans", "Chinese-Canadians", etc., so perhaps a response based on terms such as these would explain the situation best.

Edited August 24, 2012 by NewlyMintedThai

[Arkady]

Thai official forms tend to require you to fill in your nationality and race but Thais themselves fill in THAI as both their nationality and race. I recently had to get a new residence book and filled in British for my nationality and Caucasian for my race. The new book came back with British as my nationality and English as my race which I thought was quite odd but never mind. Khon in Thai is an informal word that can refer either to your race, as in khon asia, or to your nationality. As mentioned above, however, it is clear that even the official word for race, cheuchart, is used quite synonymously with the official word for nationality, sanchart. If you want to make things clear to Thais, it is best to tell them you are Canadian as you were born there but your parents moved there from Korea.

You often hear Thais talk about about Thai Chinese as Thai-Jeen. So you are Canada-Kowli.

Edited August 27, 2012 by Arkady

[NewlyMintedThai]

Sanchart = nationality

Chuachart = ethnicity

BUT anyone born to Thai national parents are considered to have Thai ethnicity, whatever their backgrounds.

So, naturalized immigrants (like me) never become "chuachart Thai", although we are "sanchart Thai".

My children (assuming they were born after I got my Thai citizenship), would be both "chuachart" and "sanchart" Thai -- regardless of whether their birth mother was another farang, a Thai, black, purple, or orange.