App Permissions

[prophet01]

Having taken the plunge and bought a Samsung Galaxy S Advance, off I went to the Google Play store to search for my first app to download. Specifically, a SMS app.

It was here that I first encounter the world of 'permissions'. My initial reaction was dismay that pretty much without exception, all apps require what appears to me to be an unnecessarily wide ranging level of access to important device functions and data.

After doing a bit of net research about permissions I was equally dismayed at the generality of the permissions explanations.

Equally dismaying to me is the apparent acceptance by the majority of users of these permissions.

Whilst I accept that the user must accept responsibility for the the downloading and use of apps a considered decision is impossible without the requisite information.

I'd be interested to hear the views of others more experienced with apps.

[Pib]

Most (maybe all) Apps will reflect a bunch of possible permissions, be it Android or Apple.

[lomatopo]

What app is causing your dismay? Which permissions are causing your dismay?

I suspect you may be dismayed, although unaware of it, when you turned on your Android phone, and created a Play account.

It might be too late now, but I would have thought you might have done some research on Android BEFORE making a purchase?

[tw25rw]

All applications on any system need a range of permissions to function. Just that Android actually tells you what is happening. If you don't know what they are, then they don't matter to you and you can install unless there is reason to be suspicious of the app.

[prophet01]

Iomatopo

From what can be gleaned on this forum about your nature I think it's safe to assume you are being deliberately obtuse/mischievous and not as dim as your questions portray you. I shall, however, attempt to humour you.

"What app is causing your dismay?"

As I state in the post, "pretty much, without exception, all apps"

"Which permissions are causing your dismay?"

All permissions unnecessary for the functioning of each app.

"I suspect you may be dismayed, although unaware of it, when you turned on your Android phone, and created a Play account."

Unsure about what this line means but I didn't turn on the phone (shop owner) neither have I created a Play account, as far as I'm aware.

"It might be too late now, but I would have thought you might have done some research on Android BEFORE making a purchase?"

Too late for what. I'm perfectly happy with my unit and its OS as it does all that I expected of it based on the research that i did do BEFORE making the purchase.

Sporting banter aside, the point I was attempting to make was that as excellent as the Android platform clearly is its users are being exploited (and the majority appear happy to be exploited) by Google and app developers alike. Not unsurprising.

The sentiments expressed in the first few paragraphs of this link probably expresses my view more succinctly

http://androidunderg...s-you-even.html

So, for me the way to go for now is to root and install LBE Privacy Guard. Unless, of course, further information forces a change of mind.

Cheers

[Chicog]

'Permissions Denied" does it for me.

[uptheos]

I'm going to get a few apps when I find out what they are.

[lomatopo]

Sporting banter aside, the point I was attempting to make was that as excellent as the Android platform clearly is its users are being exploited (and the majority appear happy to be exploited) by Google and app developers alike. Not unsurprising.

The sentiments expressed in the first few paragraphs of this link probably expresses my view more succinctly

http://androidunderg...s-you-even.html

So, for me the way to go for now is to root and install LBE Privacy Guard. Unless, of course, further information forces a change of mind.

Cheers

Your phone probably has over 100 applications on it out of the box, including all the basic Android /Google apps. plus all the Samsung Bloatware, all with associated permissions. Further you created a Play Store account with a GMail address, so as soon as you did this you became another "exploited user". Judging from your statement,

"I'm perfectly happy with my unit and its OS as it does all that I expected of it based on the research that i did do BEFORE making the purchase."

I assume you are also happy being exploited?

And I hope there are no issues with a program like LBE Privacy Guard.

[Pib]

KInda like internet tracking cookies and how some may monitor your surfing habits...it other cases the cookies are apparently needed to make a site work properly. Although I use Tracking Protection protection programs to minimize the amount of cookies, these programs don't block all cookies and some cookies you have to let through in order to use the web sites. Every week or so when I do a manual scan of my computer using Norton 360 or Norton is just doing a background auto scan it always finds several dozen low threat tracking cookies. They get deleted, but just come back when you visit the site again. Plus web site designers are writing new cookies everyday...no way for the tracking protection programs to keep up with them all. Here's what Norton says about low threat tracking cookies which are as common as the day is long. Link

But back to the smartphone App Permissions, many of the permissions are just saying the App will need to interface with other functions/use data on your phone in order to work....other permissions may collect information on your location on Earth...kinda like a tracking cookie/identifying your IP address.

If poeple are overly afraid about computer cookies and App permissions then they just need to throw those computers and smartphones out the window and start writing letters again (with no return address...and hope the postmark is faded not to identify location mailed from).

[lomatopo]

If poeple are overly afraid about computer cookies and App permissions then they just need to throw those computers and smartphones out the window and start writing letters again (with no return address...and hope the postmark is faded not to identify location mailed from).

Yes, and also get fitted for lightweight, malleable aluminum headgear. Or get that chip that the Government inserted into your head at birth removed.

Seriously I don't get it the OPs point(s) - dismay being more of a "feeling" than an observation -, privacy concerns have existed since before the invention of window shades, and Androids', and iOS, potential for data mining, tracking, observing and even stealing are well documented. Most(/all?) permissions are required for the app. to work, provide value.

For those concerned about being exploited just go to Settings, Apps (or Applications, or Manage applications), choose an app., scroll down to see which permissions the app. uses. If you are uncomfortable with those, uninstall them, or as Pib suggests, throw the device out the window - after destroying any personal information on it. A lot of the base Google/Android apps., especially those associated with communication (voice, text, etc.) and location, have a lot of permissions.

Edited August 29, 2012 by lomatopo

[prophet01]

It's such a shame that Iomatopo doesn't wish to partake in a mature discussion about such a fundamental, important but imperfect element of Android, effecting every user.

Choosing instead to misrepresent, distort, quote out of context, exaggerate and point blank refuse to honestly address others' views ala "strawman fallacy" style of debate.

Contrary to the the view presented at post #10 above, that the only way to deal with apps containing permissions that make you feel uncomfortable is to simply not use them i.e. take them or leave them, apps and their permissions can be managed and fine tuned by the user.

Many apps continue to function normally when certain permissions, originally required to be accepted on installation, are set to denied after installation. It's up to the individual to determine what they are comfortable with. If the app doesn't function when the users selected permissions are denied then the user can decide whether or not to enable the permission or uninstall the app and try to find something else that they are comfortable with.

I refer again to the following article which explains the imperfections of the permissions system far better than me and others on this thread. http://androidunderg...s-you-even.html

[Pib]

Prophet01,

Good luck in rooting your phone so Apps like LBE Privacy Guard can be added since a rooted phone is needed for these types of Apps. Interested in how it turns out for you and what rooting process/program you end up using.

I've been wanting to root my phone, a Samsung Galaxy Ace 2, which I've only had for a few months now. I've can easily find sites that talk rooting in generic terms and in many cases walks a person through the process, but in many cases it seems the rooting process goes fine for some folks and terrible for others...seems to greatly depend on the model of the phone. I may wait until my phone is out of warranty before I attempt rooting the phone unless I can find some weblink/blog specifically walking a person through rooting my particular model phone and then that same weblink/blog is filled with other Ace 2 users who give a very high thumbs-up percentage-wise on the rooting process vs it worked for a lot of people and didn't work for a lot of people.

I also guess there are different rooting programs and associated App/add-ons. Would be interested in anyone's opinion on the best basic rooting App to use...I mean the basic rooting App; not all the other Apps like LBE Privacy Guard that can be loaded on rooted phones. I first want to easily & quickly lay the house foundation (i.e., accomplish the basic root process) and then build the rest of the house (i.e., install the different Apps that can only be installed/fully function on a rooted phone like LBE Privacy Guard).

Cheers,

Pib

[prophet01]

Hi Pib

Just a quick reply as out and about. I agree, for a newcomer like me to android rooting looks quite daunting although the more i read and begin to understand the less daunting it becomes.

I managed to find a very good forum thread about rooting my phone which, as you know, is a relatively new model. I'll take time to try to understand the procedure as fully as possible before attempting but i'm heartened by the number of successes i read about in the thread which is 3 months long.

[Chicog]

I would agree that if you are planning on rooting it is very much worth doing a *lot* of reading first - don't just follow the first set of instructions you find. I say this because Samsung made a bit of a howler with the S3 firmware which can easily result in bricking the Note if you don't use the right kernel.

It's easy enough to work around, but toxic if you don't follow the instructions precisely.

I would recommend you don't try rooting for the first time unless you have done your homework and are extremely comfortable with the process.

[tw25rw]

It's such a shame that Iomatopo doesn't wish to partake in a mature discussion about such a fundamental, important but imperfect element of Android, effecting every user.

Choosing instead to misrepresent, distort, quote out of context, exaggerate and point blank refuse to honestly address others' views ala "strawman fallacy" style of debate.

Contrary to the the view presented at post #10 above, that the only way to deal with apps containing permissions that make you feel uncomfortable is to simply not use them i.e. take them or leave them, apps and their permissions can be managed and fine tuned by the user.

Many apps continue to function normally when certain permissions, originally required to be accepted on installation, are set to denied after installation. It's up to the individual to determine what they are comfortable with. If the app doesn't function when the users selected permissions are denied then the user can decide whether or not to enable the permission or uninstall the app and try to find something else that they are comfortable with.

I refer again to the following article which explains the imperfections of the permissions system far better than me and others on this thread. http://androidunderg...s-you-even.html

So on your own PC, you go through every program's permissions to control everything it does/can do?

[Chicog]

^ For S3 read Note - a typo.

[Chicog]

So on your own PC, you go through every program's permissions to control everything it does/can do?

Probably be easier, I have a lot less apps on the PC.

[lomatopo]

Rooting your phone does little to address issues and concerns about an application's Permissions.

Rooting a phone is relatively easy, and painless. It does give you more access, and does allow some applications to function, like Titanium Backup. It does violate your warranty.

My comment about LBE Privacy Guard was tongue-in-cheek, as that app. seems to cause many, many more problems than it addresses.

AFAIK, you cannot modify an apps. permissions other than if using some hidden features in CM7 ROMs.

Quoting a guru: "YOU are your own firewall. If you don't like the permission, don't download the app."

http://developer.android.com/reference/android/Manifest.permission.html

http://androidforums.com/android-applications/36936-how-safe-find-trusted-apps-avoid-viruses-guide-those-new-android.html

Seriously these concerns have been around for eons, the OP seems to think he has uncovered some conspiracy on the order of "Soylent Green".

And learn the difference between "affect" and "effect" for heaven's sake.

[prophet01]

I would agree that if you are planning on rooting it is very much worth doing a *lot* of reading first - don't just follow the first set of instructions you find. I say this because Samsung made a bit of a howler with the S3 firmware which can easily result in bricking the Note if you don't use the right kernel.

It's easy enough to work around, but toxic if you don't follow the instructions precisely.

I would recommend you don't try rooting for the first time unless you have done your homework and are extremely comfortable with the process.

Good advice. Wasn't intending on doing anything in the short term but learn and wait.

[prophet01]

It's such a shame that Iomatopo doesn't wish to partake in a mature discussion about such a fundamental, important but imperfect element of Android, effecting every user.

Choosing instead to misrepresent, distort, quote out of context, exaggerate and point blank refuse to honestly address others' views ala "strawman fallacy" style of debate.

Contrary to the the view presented at post #10 above, that the only way to deal with apps containing permissions that make you feel uncomfortable is to simply not use them i.e. take them or leave them, apps and their permissions can be managed and fine tuned by the user.

Many apps continue to function normally when certain permissions, originally required to be accepted on installation, are set to denied after installation. It's up to the individual to determine what they are comfortable with. If the app doesn't function when the users selected permissions are denied then the user can decide whether or not to enable the permission or uninstall the app and try to find something else that they are comfortable with.

I refer again to the following article which explains the imperfections of the permissions system far better than me and others on this thread. http://androidunderg...s-you-even.html

So on your own PC, you go through every program's permissions to control everything it does/can do?

No.

[Chicog]

Quoting a guru: "YOU are your own firewall. If you don't like the permission, don't download the app."

The SANS team actually have a whole website devoted to Security Awareness called www.securingthehuman.org

No point in worrying about your devices or apps if you practice unsafe behaviour.

[Pib]

From my googling on rooting my Samsng Galaxy Ace 2 (I8160L), the Link provides the most straight forward instructions on how to root my Ace 2. I just may get brave and try it at some point in the near future after doing some more reading/research on rooting, unrooting, weighing the pros and cons of rooting, etc. Basically, rooting pretty much boils down to getting the SuperUser App installed on your Android which is like a gateway to root permissions.

[tw25rw]

It's such a shame that Iomatopo doesn't wish to partake in a mature discussion about such a fundamental, important but imperfect element of Android, effecting every user.

Choosing instead to misrepresent, distort, quote out of context, exaggerate and point blank refuse to honestly address others' views ala "strawman fallacy" style of debate.

Contrary to the the view presented at post #10 above, that the only way to deal with apps containing permissions that make you feel uncomfortable is to simply not use them i.e. take them or leave them, apps and their permissions can be managed and fine tuned by the user.

Many apps continue to function normally when certain permissions, originally required to be accepted on installation, are set to denied after installation. It's up to the individual to determine what they are comfortable with. If the app doesn't function when the users selected permissions are denied then the user can decide whether or not to enable the permission or uninstall the app and try to find something else that they are comfortable with.

I refer again to the following article which explains the imperfections of the permissions system far better than me and others on this thread. http://androidunderg...s-you-even.html

So on your own PC, you go through every program's permissions to control everything it does/can do?

No.

So why do you care what perms they have on your phone? If Android didn't tell you, you wouldn't care.

[Chicog]

So why do you care what perms they have on your phone? If Android didn't tell you, you wouldn't care.

Android does tell you, but most people still don't care, any more than they care about searching through Google.

Interestingly, Microsoft have upset a few people by setting ''Do Not Track" on by default in the upcoming version of IE.

[prophet01]

It's such a shame that Iomatopo doesn't wish to partake in a mature discussion about such a fundamental, important but imperfect element of Android, effecting every user.

Choosing instead to misrepresent, distort, quote out of context, exaggerate and point blank refuse to honestly address others' views ala "strawman fallacy" style of debate.

Contrary to the the view presented at post #10 above, that the only way to deal with apps containing permissions that make you feel uncomfortable is to simply not use them i.e. take them or leave them, apps and their permissions can be managed and fine tuned by the user.

Many apps continue to function normally when certain permissions, originally required to be accepted on installation, are set to denied after installation. It's up to the individual to determine what they are comfortable with. If the app doesn't function when the users selected permissions are denied then the user can decide whether or not to enable the permission or uninstall the app and try to find something else that they are comfortable with.

I refer again to the following article which explains the imperfections of the permissions system far better than me and others on this thread. http://androidunderg...s-you-even.html

So on your own PC, you go through every program's permissions to control everything it does/can do?

No.

So why do you care what perms they have on your phone? If Android didn't tell you, you wouldn't care.

I care about the permissions because in giving my explicit acceptance, which I must do to use the app, I am giving my explicit permission to do whatever the permissions says it can do if I give my permission.

How would you know what I would care if Android didn't tell me about the permissions, which it does so bit of an odd thing to say. You must be truly gifted.

And what do you care what I care about?

Do you have anything to say about permissions that would help us innocents on our path?

[tw25rw]

Do you have anything to say about permissions that would help us innocents on our path?

I do but no longer feel inclined to.

[prophet01]

That's regrettable. I hope you might change your mind in the future and share your knowledge.

Thanks anyway.

[Chicog]

I don't get what you're asking. Android is pretty explicit about what permissions an app requires, and it's up to whether or not you want to share that information with the developers.

Lookout do quite a nice tool to see what Ad networks your apps are using as well.

[prophet01]

Wasn't really asking anything.

Simply expressing my views about something new (to me at least) I'd encountered since delving into Android with my first unit.

[bobbin]

Wasn't really asking anything.

Simply expressing my views about something new (to me at least) I'd encountered since delving into Android with my first unit.

For a prophet, you are not very prescient....

A fellow looking for a lot of opinions and answers on a topic unfamiliar to them should avoid antagonizing the people trying to answer their questions.

You are also p®etty territorial about your threads...

Remember "don't hijack my thread, start your own!"?