Dying In Chiang Mai

[Mapguy]

Today I was reminded of this very thoughtful, excellent post. I would like to suggest that this topic be revisited, expanded and updated; then pinned and periodically reviewed. I would give it a somewhat broader title: Dying in Chiang Mai: Guide for Expatriates. I sense that the average age of the expatriate population is rising rapidly.

There is a lot of practical guidance provided in the post. Quite helpful information in narrative form on what to do and how to go about taking care of the deceased.

Perhaps an expanded version might also include some general guidance about preparing for death (wills, living wills, letters of instruction) without providing direct legal advice, but guiding people to information and resources that are available. Perhaps featuring questions that need to be answered rather than referrals to law firms or specific organizations. There are already some posts of this nature, but it might be helpful to have an all-in-one pinned topic. If members wished to make specific referrals to law firms or groups in town that might be considered commercial in nature.

[Pond Life]

Thanks for bringing this up again.

I see from re reading it that Boo said that it would be pinned,

but looking at the Chiang Mai forum index it obviously is not there.

How about it Mods ?

[scorecard]

Thanks for bringing this up again.

I see from re reading it that Boo said that it would be pinned,

but looking at the Chiang Mai forum index it obviously is not there.

How about it Mods ?

Totally agree, and I hasten to add I'm one of the folks getting 'older'.

But, not trying to be negative, I suggest one small caveat.

Many poeple post statements on many threads written to suggest they are quoting appropriate laws. When in fact quite often the information / statements made are not accurate in law.

Another twist is people making comment in a form of what they wish was the law, rather than knowing the actual law.

And another, folks who quote the law, when in reality what they write is the appropriate law as it exists in US or UK, etc., and irrelevant in Thailand .

On the other hand there are several ThaiVisa members who are experts on various aspects of Thai law and regulations etc., and they post lots of good and accurate information and links to the actual laws, all free, and I would generally respect their advice.

One example is mario2008 (but not sure if the mods will allow me to add that).

Just a thought.

[Mapguy]

Good points, Scorecard. I am wary about getting too involved in the legal angles. Individual circumstances and preferences will obviously vary. Sometimes posts are incomplete or poorly expressed. I know of some very well-intentioned posts about wills that were only partially true.

But what about referring to a broad reference guide, such as Thai Law for Foreigners published by Paiboon Publishing in 2008? At the very least it does help people ask the right questions. There is even an English translation of the Thai Civil and Commercial Code available on line (Haven't looked at it lately.), but it is somewhat dated and there are also court decisions that should be considered. But, again, it leads to asking appropriate questions when there is some complexity in individual circumstances.

Regardless of what tack discussing legal matters and advice takes, I think the very helpful detail reflected in the original narrative post could be even more helpful.

Edited August 27, 2012 by Mapguy

[NancyL]

Somehow I don't think this topic is going to be as popular as a good, rousing food thread.

The posting referenced by the OP is indeed "pinned", but it's pinned on the CM News & Event sub-forum, not this general CM forum. As I recall, at one time it was pinned here and someone objected to seeing the pinned topic "dying in Chiang Mai" everytime they visited the forum. Too much of a downer, creating the impression the town is populated by old folks.

Part of why so many foreigners don't have Wills or Advanced Directives (sometimes called Living Wills) is because they read posts like this where everyone gets all hung up on the legalese and forgets the point that it's important just to do something -- even if it's in your native language, handwritten, etc. Sure, documents like those could be challenged, but in many cases the Thai authorities and consular officials are just looking for some clue about a person's intentions.

[TommoPhysicist]

Why would anyone care what happens after they are dead?

(or care what happens to their money of belongings)

[Tywais]

I pinned the topic quite a while ago by request. Also due to the number of key pinned topics in the main forum it was put in the CM sub-forum.

//Edit - Missed NancyL's breakdown and explanation. Better memory than mine as couldn't recall the precise reason.

[Thailand]

Why would anyone care what happens after they are dead?

(or care what happens to their money of belongings)

It's just possible that it may be of interest to the bereaved and those concerned enough to think about what will happen when they have passed- don't you think?

[Naam]

Why would anyone care what happens after they are dead?

(or care what happens to their money of belongings)

yes, i know some people who would!

[scorecard]

Why would anyone care what happens after they are dead?

(or care what happens to their money of belongings)

yes, i know some people who would!

Agree, personally it's very close to my heart how my estate is distributed on my death, meaning specifically that my two young Thai granddaughters gain some security in terms of a roof over their head that they own and a nest egg to at least see them though advanced education (if that's what they want). And to be honest I have already done a lot of homework to ensure it's all set up and that there is close to zero chance that any 'nasties' (law twists) can may any grief.

However, of course, each to his own.

[Mapguy]

CM News and Events sub-forum! I believe that's where NancyL (see above) announces her luncheons for women! Talk about being sent into obscurity !! How many people actually know where that thread is?! And read it?!!

NancyL has made a couple of good points.

First, of course, there are many CM foodies on this forum having so much fun killing themselves with hamburgers and Sunday roast dinners. Heaven forfend anyone would want to spoil their digestion! Some help for people to think ahead a bit or to assist them at a very distressful time would be kind.

Forums are fun, but always just for that purpose? How about a compromise: pin "Life Events." Then a subhead when reaching the thread: "Practical Guidance on Dying in Chiang Mai." I would add that, in my view, Chiang Mai is only slightly overcrowded (whatever that means) with ageing expats, but the future seems ominous !!!

Second, NancyL has pointed out that excessive amateur legal advice can be boring if not incomplete or really troublesome. I recall someone passing along advice from a bank manager on wills that was quite incomplete. A bank manager?! And I have read here over the years referrals to people who aren't really licensed to practice law but have made it appear so. And I have gasped at referrals to lawyers whose ethics have been more than questioned. So, all in all, I am basically in agreement with NancyL. I will say again that I am wary about the extent of legal advice.

I still suggest that this basic concern (as uncomfortable as it might be for some) not be fobbed off. Hope there are those who agree so something can be worked up.

Edited August 27, 2012 by Mapguy

[uptheos]

Why would anyone care what happens after they are dead?

(or care what happens to their money of belongings)

No friends, family or charities you can help.....or no assets?

[Mapguy]

Why would anyone care what happens after they are dead?

(or care what happens to their money of belongings)

No friends, family or charities you can help.....or no assets?

Why would anyone care what happens after they are dead?

(or care what happens to their money of belongings)

No friends, family or charities you can help.....or no assets?

Okay, okay! Can we get back to the point?

[mcgriffith]

Well, upon reading this, I went to news and events in CM, and Boom! there it was, a pinned (and unlocked) thread titled Dying at Home in Chiang Mai, right at the top of the page. Anyone can post there.

My personal opinion is that the old folks of this world have largely cut themselves a very sweet deal...the youth of today are pretty much screwed in terms of employment opportunity, and living anywhere near the living standards of their parents. Thanks to a lot of complex and myriad factors, which I won't get into here.

I'm a boomer (born in 1951) with a son living in California (age 27) who is a perennial student. He keeps studying because there are no jobs.

My generation already has a well-deserved reputation for their self-centered focus.

Now that we are getting old and decrepit, do we need to drag everyone's attention to that? Back in the day before the internet, the sum total of this sort of conversation was reading the Obit section of a newspaper....

Frankly speaking I agree with some of the above comments re: not posting this on the main forum.

I've had numerous friends here and abroad pass away, but I don't think this topic should be a pinned topic on CM.

Just my viewpoint, and no offence intended to the OP.

[KhunOr]

When asked where he would like to buried when he died, Yogi Berra’s answer was, “I don’t care. Surprise me.”

[Mapguy]

Well, upon reading this, I went to news and events in CM, and Boom! there it was, a pinned (and unlocked) thread titled Dying at Home in Chiang Mai, right at the top of the page. Anyone can post there.

My personal opinion is that the old folks of this world have largely cut themselves a very sweet deal...the youth of today are pretty much screwed in terms of employment opportunity, and living anywhere near the living standards of their parents. Thanks to a lot of complex and myriad factors, which I won't get into here.

I'm a boomer (born in 1951) with a son living in California (age 27) who is a perennial student. He keeps studying because there are no jobs.

My generation already has a well-deserved reputation for their self-centered focus.

Now that we are getting old and decrepit, do we need to drag everyone's attention to that? Back in the day before the internet, the sum total of this sort of conversation was reading the Obit section of a newspaper....

Frankly speaking I agree with some of the above comments re: not posting this on the main forum.

I've had numerous friends here and abroad pass away, but I don't think this topic should be a pinned topic on CM.

Just my viewpoint, and no offence intended to the OP.

No offense taken. I am just trying to be helpful, not get into legalistic or metaphysical discussions, nor am I trying to be critical of the "Me Generation."

Back to hamburgers, I suppose: Soma for Chiang Mai expats: http://www.huxley.net/soma/somaquote.html

[KRS1]

Why would anyone care what happens after they are dead?

(or care what happens to their money of belongings)

There are farangs in cnx that prey on the dying. They target the thai widows and offer help in obtaining benefits for a percentage of the inheritance, benefits, social security benefits, etc...sometimes they just take it for themselves.

In some cases they also try to engage in credit card fraud by using and requesting credit cards in the deceased name.

Never trust anyone that offers you help to clear things up after you're dead, and appoint atleast 3 executors of your will for a checks and balance system to avoid fraud.

Because someone says they work or have worked for organizations like the VA or consulate does not mean they can be trusted. It just means they know how to work the system. In Thailand being a farang doesnt make someone more trustworthy when money is involved.

In a personal case the thai wife administered pain killers and heavy doses of morphine to keep her husband drugged up, thats when she went in for the kill to change the will with help from a farang.

Edited August 27, 2012 by KRS1

[jackr]

Never trust anyone that offers you help to clear things up after you're dead,

I don't trust anyone while I'm alive! And certainly since moving out here which seems to be fraught with a burgeoning supply of bird s*** farang.

Would be useful, but one can see why the chaps don't want it on the front page; not great for business.

[uptheos]

I don't trust anyone while I'm alive!

Well, you sure won't be able to when you're dead!