Had An Accident

[Garry]

I think it's always partly our fault ...by simply being here...if the OP hasn't been there,there would be no accident...TIT...BTW,you should know what I mean...

This is such a bad way of thinking. It is not your fault just for being a foreigner, and if you keep thinking that way, then you will always be taken advantage of, like so many TV'ers and other foreigners I meet here are.

I guess I've phrased if wrong (English is my second language)...what I've meant is that,if there is farang around,he will be probably blamed for things gone wrong and tried to be taken advantage of...

My car got hit ones by drunken motorcyclists while PARKED!...when one of those guys finally crawled out of the ditch and the BIB asked him what happened,he said that the car hit them (!!)...even the BIB laughed...Next day,at the police station the father of the driver asked if we can help him because the bike is damaged and there is 5k bill for the hospital as well...hmmm

That's funny as Funcat. So what was your response to the help out on the bill request? Eat sh*t and die.! :-)

Sent from my iPhone 3 using ThaiVisa app

[kriswillems]

Well, I didn't follow the advice of many people on this forum and went to see him anyway. I just felt sorry for the guy.

He was already involved in many accidents before and didn't have a drivers license (his father told me).

We went to the police office together to make a new report.

He confessed he passed the red light and paid 400B fine. I helped him paying the fine by giving him 500B.

There's a new (and probably final) police report now. It says we had an accident because he crossed the red light.

The report doesn't talk about damage and doesn't give any details (who came from where). He and I both signed the report.

The problem is that he's poor. He doesn't have any money. I have first class insurance.

I have 2 questions:

- is it a problem that the report doesn't talk about the damage?

- will my insurance take care of paying for the damage in case he doesn't have money?

[transam]

[siampreggers]

He confessed he passed the red light and paid 400B fine. I helped him paying the fine by giving him 500B.

Well this will teach him!

I'm having trouble figuring out who the most stupid is.

[funcat]

Well, I didn't follow the advice of many people on this forum and went to see him anyway. I just felt sorry for the guy.

He was already involved in many accidents before and didn't have a drivers license (his father told me).

We went to the police office together to make a new report.

He confessed he passed the red light and paid 400B fine. I helped him paying the fine by giving him 500B.

There's a new (and probably final) police report now. It says we had an accident because he crossed the red light.

The report doesn't talk about damage and doesn't give any details (who came from where). He and I both signed the report.

The problem is that he's poor. He doesn't have any money. I have first class insurance.

I have 2 questions:

- is it a problem that the report doesn't talk about the damage?

- will my insurance take care of paying for the damage in case he doesn't have money?

...so,what is your insurance doing...don't you think that you should ask them about this first?

[transam]

He confessed he passed the red light and paid 400B fine. I helped him paying the fine by giving him 500B.

Well this will teach him!

I'm having trouble figuring out who the most stupid is.

Don't worry, when the OP gets his insurance renewal hike, the biker will pay it.

[kriswillems]

The (first class) insurance was not clear on the phone. They talked about getting the money back from him (because he confessed), but they avoided to give details about what happens when he doesn't have money (I asked them several times). I wonder what the law says about this?

Also insurances work slow, and probably are not willing to do promises make the phone.

[uptheos]

I think it's always partly our fault ...by simply being here...if the OP hasn't been there,there would be no accident.

What a load of cobblers!

[funcat]

I think it's always partly our fault ...by simply being here...if the OP hasn't been there,there would be no accident...TIT...BTW,you should know what I mean...

This is such a bad way of thinking. It is not your fault just for being a foreigner, and if you keep thinking that way, then you will always be taken advantage of, like so many TV'ers and other foreigners I meet here are.

I guess I've phrased if wrong (English is my second language)...what I've meant is that,if there is farang around,he will be probably blamed for things gone wrong and tried to be taken advantage of...

My car got hit ones by drunken motorcyclists while PARKED!...when one of those guys finally crawled out of the ditch and the BIB asked him what happened,he said that the car hit them (!!)...even the BIB laughed...Next day,at the police station the father of the driver asked if we can help him because the bike is damaged and there is 5k bill for the hospital as well...hmmm

That's funny as Funcat. So what was your response to the help out on the bill request? Eat sh*t and die.! :-)

Sent from my iPhone 3 using ThaiVisa app

...after my "hmmm" ,the nice police officer had some strong words with those idiots and ordered them to pay our damages which were 18K Baht...but that's another story...

[funcat]

I think it's always partly our fault ...by simply being here...if the OP hasn't been there,there would be no accident.

What a load of cobblers!

That post was wrongly phrased...I've explained that already few hours ago...sometime helps to read all the posts

[kriswillems]

I want to answer/comment on a few remarks in this thread.

1. Yes, passing the green light at 80 kms/h is fast, maybe too fast, although not illegal. I have thought about this a lot, but I can't turn back the time. Also, this is my first accident in 22 years, I am not a reckless driver. From now on I will certainly lower my speed, even if I have green light.

2. I never felt that the fact I am a farang gave me a disadvantage. I even felt the police completely choose my side. They blamed the guy a lot, even before he could say 1 word. They were kind and correct to me at all times. In fact the guy first made an attempt to say he passed the green light, but the police immediately said he would better tell the truth (I don't know how they could know he was trying to lie, maybe they knew his history).

3. I tried to follow the Thai way of handling these things. I know helping this guy was wrong in farang logic and I wouldn't do it in my country. I helped paying his fine. I let the nurse that took care of him the first day buy a new t-shirt and a new battery for his mobile phone for him (because his battery got lost in the accident and he needed to contact his wife). For me what counts is the end result: he confessed. For me, that's very important. A legal battle would be emotionally heavy.

At moment I don't need to worry about his medical expenses and his motorcycle anymore. Still the damage on my car is very big and I wonder if the lack of details in the police report will cause problems.

[kriswillems]

Take you own photographs of the damage on your car (and, if possible the damage to the bike). In the absence of any witnesses (or CCTV footage) photos of the damage will be the most reliable evidence. Do not assume, or rely, on the police to retain any evidence (including photos) that support your story.

Did anyone take photos at the scene??

The insurance took photos, the police took photos and I took photos. However I had to move the guy and my car immediately after the accident, so the photos don't show our final position after the accident. My photos are of really bad quality, they show damage, but not the whole scene.

[JeffreyMcCollum]

What city was this ?

Accident, why did you move your car ?

And NEVER NEVER NEVER move a downed motorcyclist you could have killed him or compounded his injuries

you say your light was green, when was the last time you looked ? With the way police mess with light in my city they both could have been green

I do wish the best for both of you

[JohanBKK]

You should NEVER move a guy who just had an accident, this is the first thing we learn while taking our driving classes in France. If he die or whatever they could say "it's because you moved him".

If he get hit by another car then it's the other car fault and not yours. Your job is to secure the area, call for help and try to keep him alive without moving him.

[stevenl]

The (first class) insurance was not clear on the phone. They talked about getting the money back from him (because he confessed), but they avoided to give details about what happens when he doesn't have money (I asked them several times). I wonder what the law says about this?

Also insurances work slow, and probably are not willing to do promises make the phone.

Yes, your insurance will pay you, if they can't collect from the guilty party over time nthat is their problem, not yours.

This should also mean there will be no hike in insurance premium next year, but no guarantees there.

[kriswillems]

The (first class) insurance was not clear on the phone. They talked about getting the money back from him (because he confessed), but they avoided to give details about what happens when he doesn't have money (I asked them several times). I wonder what the law says about this?

Also insurances work slow, and probably are not willing to do promises make the phone.

Yes, your insurance will pay you, if they can't collect from the guilty party over time nthat is their problem, not yours.

This should also mean there will be no hike in insurance premium next year, but no guarantees there.

Thank you very much for the answer. I assumed it would be like this, but I was not sure, because it appears the other party has only phoh roh boh and no insurance (plus he didn't have a drivers license). So, my insurance can not contact another insurance and has to get the money directly from him.

I know I shouldn't move a wounded guy, I have also learnt this when testing for my drivers license and I thought about this before moving the guy. We've also learnt that the first thing you should do to is trying to avoid further damage (not causing a new accident).

It was a difficult decision to move him. You have to imagine that there are cars passing at high speed on this road, while the guy is in the middle of the road.

Before I moved him I checked if he could move his arms and feet. He could, so I assume he didn't brake his neck or spine (I am not a doctor, so I don't know if it this is meaningful). It's easy to discuss these things afterwards on a forum, but if you've to make a decision on the spot, within 3 seconds, it's really hard.

[kriswillems]

What city was this ?

Accident, why did you move your car ?

And NEVER NEVER NEVER move a downed motorcyclist you could have killed him or compounded his injuries

you say your light was green, when was the last time you looked ? With the way police mess with light in my city they both could have been green

I do wish the best for both of you

I moved my car because it was on the road while other cars passed at high speed. There can be no discussion about the position of the car because you can see the rubber on the road from the point I started braking until the point my car came to a stop.

The police also asked me how many seconds of green light I had left, but I didn't know that. I think it's not very relevant because the motorcycle said he passed the red light.

It happened in Banglamung on Sukhumvit.

[mogandave]

While I don’t doubt the French think it acceptable to leave an injured person lying helpless in the middle of a road busy with high speed traffic because they are afraid they may be sued, I think you did the right thing.

At the end of the day, the only thing that’s important is how you feel about yourself as a human being. I doubt very much you’ll miss the money you paid out to help this guy or lose much sleep worrying about any potential law suit the guy may bring forward. But hitting someone and watching them bleed out on the highway or letting them get run over by another vehicle without even trying to help is something you would take to your death bed.

[JohanBKK]

is something you would take to your death bed.

I disagree, you always do what you believe is the best so you wont take it to your death bed. Like this guy believed to move an accidented person was the best thing to do he wont take it to his death bed. We have strict recommendations in France if we are involded in an accident, so we wont take it to our death bed because we do what our government want us to do. I'm not smarter than the guys who stated that moving an accidented person was bad, so i better listen to them.

Only a qualified person with medical skills can tell if you can move an accidented person or not.

[kriswillems]

I think the discussion about moving or not moving an injured person is pretty pointless, because everything depends on the circumstances.

On that road he might have a 20% chance of being hit again or even killed by a car.

Moving an injured person might result in move serious injuries in 5% of all cases.

So, if you've to choose between 20% chance of being killed and 5% chance of being more seriously injured, I would go for the second choice.

Of course, on a very calm road, you should never move an injured person.

[barefoot1988]

i know its abit harsh but you need no to feel bad or feel pity about the dude, especially when this dude obviously show no sense of basic society responsibilities. one of my personal friend was killed due to a scooterist running a red light. those red light runners are just playing with their luck and one day they will get involved with other innocent parties. ignore and leave no sympathies for the ignorant prick. i know many kind hearted people will get pissed with my comment but if had you seen a innocent friend suffering due to these society thrash, you would understand

[eaustev]

show no sense of basic society responsibilities

Slightly off topic I know, but going on today's court proceedings if you are 16 years old at the time, drive recklessly, cause the death of 9 people, but come from the right family, you can of course get away scot free. Big surprise....

[JohanBKK]

That's how it works here, if you don't like it go elsewhere.

I'm happy to pay 200 bahts to the police instead of having to pass again my driving license like i would in France for stupid things like getting a ticket because i parked 10 cm outside the lines.

[marshbags]

i know its abit harsh but you need no to feel bad or feel pity about the dude, especially when this dude obviously show no sense of basic society responsibilities. one of my personal friend was killed due to a scooterist running a red light. those red light runners are just playing with their luck and one day they will get involved with other innocent parties. ignore and leave no sympathies for the ignorant prick. i know many kind hearted people will get pissed with my comment but if had you seen a innocent friend suffering due to these society thrash, you would understand

I,d like to add to this without sounding uncompassionate towards the red light runner.

He,s probably run the lights many times ( as is the Thai way we are all to familar with and not excluding farang either. ) and while he finally paid for it, he was lucky he is still alive.

You were lucky it wasn,t something more substancial you collided with and.....

More importantly thank god you didn,t end up in hospital... or the morgue as yet another dead foreigner.

If there was or is any remote chance he could point some of the blame on you in the light of day, he might rethink his position and he most likely wouldn,t care a satang about your circumstances if he does.

It is by the way not unknown for them to change there version of events, especially when some unscruplous lawyer or police officer may offer to help him and advise him to deny blame, followed with their version of events to favour him and themselves of course.

Good luck with sorting it out and keep us updated on what happens, we can al learn from it I,m sure

marshbags

[marshbags]

That's how it works here, if you don't like it go elsewhere.

I'm happy to pay 200 bahts to the police instead of having to pass again my driving license like i would in France for stupid things like getting a ticket because i parked 10 cm outside the lines.

What a pathetic response.

So if you are not one of the priviledged families with connections it,s o.k to be dealt and severely punished because we stay here accept it or leave.

How does a parking fine back in France ect. compare or justify what the previous poster eausteve refers to and by the way it is relevant to motoring in Thailand and it,s culture re the law before anyone says it,s off topic.

Had the red light runner been from the Puyai the OP would surely be facing something similar.

Oh by the way if he was and you didn,t like it, Johan says you must leave and go elsewhere. <deleted> you thinking like this for ?????

IMHO

marshbags

P.S.

There is a thread in the news section covering the accident with the teenager driver if anyone wishes to comment on it or debate it specifically

[kriswillems]

I saw some interesting statistics on the wall of the hospital in Pattaya I went to see him:

In august (until now):

873 injured motorcycle drivers or passengers

13 injured car drivers or passenger

26 injured pedestrians

576 drunken drivers.

So, it's about 67 times more dangerous to drive a motorcycle than it is to drive a car.

The majority of people involved in accident was drunk.

It's 2 times more dangerous to walk than it is to drive a car.

I know this is not all 100% mathematically correct, because there are more motorcycles than cars. Still, these numbers are pretty shocking.

It more or less means you've to be mad to ride a motorcycle around here.

It means that drunk driving is a very big problem in Thailand.

I also means that you better watch out very good on the Thai roads, even if you just walk.

[anon210]

It could also mean that most motorcyclists drive very dangerously, as was the case in this accident.

[stevenl]

It could also mean that most motorcyclists drive very dangerously, as was the case in this accident.

Nah, that takes away the fun in speculating with meaningless numbers.

[JeffreyMcCollum]

It could also mean that most motorcyclists drive very dangerously, as was the case in this accident.

I drive cars, pickups, as well as small and large bikes here.

In general, the masses,bikes drive too slow. 60 kph on the highways were 80 - 100 would be better and safer

In general I think cars and trucks drive too fast with an attitude they have more right on the road than bikers do

My guess if you eleminated all cars and truck and just used bikes, accidents would be greatly reduced and deaths almost non exsistant.

[marshbags]

It could also mean that most motorcyclists drive very dangerously, as was the case in this accident.

I drive cars, pickups, as well as small and large bikes here.

In general, the masses,bikes drive too slow. 60 kph on the highways were 80 - 100 would be better and safer

In general I think cars and trucks drive too fast with an attitude they have more right on the road than bikers do

My guess if you eleminated all cars and truck and just used bikes, accidents would be greatly reduced and deaths almost non exsistant.

If they enforced the law according to the highway code and upped the penalites that include one rule for all irrespective of status, I,m confident the present mindset that comes across as it,s ok, would change and in turn reduce accidents.

Making those who usually get away with whatever laws they have broken purely because of their piriviledged status ect. and having the financial clout to either get the charges dismissed or get a lenient sentence that amounts to zero in accountability, that,s if they haven,t in the first instance never even been charged..

This would IMHO send out the a clear message to everyone irrespective of who or what they are, ignore the law and you will be severely dealt with top to bottom, penalities given in a similar way with the criteria being those who should know better have this additionally taken into account ..not as it is now..the opposite.

Those who can afford usually do not pay while those who cannot afford to pay do.

Jail has to mean jail and not immediate and indefinite bail and certainly NOT suspended were hopefully the will be educated and their mindset completely reprogrammed..

For me the most distrubing abuse of the driving laws after the drink and drugs, are the riding against the flow of traffic and texting / reading sms messages while supposedly controlling whatever mode of motorised transport a driver is in charge of, blocking pedestrian walk ways and using them as parking spaces.

Since when is it lawful to ride on the walkways and expect pedestrians especially those who are aged, children, or disabled to get out of the way...or else suffer the consequences, this most definitely needs addressing, like yesterday IMHO

No matter who, what or were you come from, everyone who feel and act likewise, reponsibly and with respect, deserve basic consideration and not have to feel guilty just because they happen to come from another country or happen to be considered a lesser equal ( unfairly )because they are less priviledged everyone is entitled to voice their objections and hope things will imporve and get better.

If not we may as well be living in a jungle not in a civilised society.

marshbags