Thailand Grapples With Killer Student Gangs

[KeyserSoze01]

THe usual clap-trap from the "hang-em-high" brigade I see.

wouldn't life be lovely if all problems were simply a case of black and white?

Firstly it might be a good to bear in mind that the streets of Thailand are NOT crawling with "killer student gangs".

However in a country where MPs take automatic weapons into restaurants and shoot people with apparent impunity, what can you expect of their spawn?

I am a bit confused by your response.

The most I can take away from reading it, is that you believe it's their country and that you condone, if not approve of the behavior, because that's what the adults do. Then you complain about people complaining about the situation. Can you not make up your mind?

SO it's ok to kill someone, because it's in their culture? Bleh!!!

[DonGato]

Sorry guys I disagree, prison will make it worse as they will fall into their respective "gangs" in prison, if for no other reason for protection. Sport and the competition it brings with it's pride and sense of achievement is probably the best solution.

IMHO

I understand what you say and partially agree... but, shouldn't anyone who attacks another person with a knife pay a sentence?... we are not talking about kids throwing food to each other or wrestling in the garden...

"I stabbed a student in the head," says Pond, a pimply 18-year-old who escaped prosecution for the assault but was fined a few dollars for carrying a knife.

I would think that discipline and prevention could work in most cases, but the tradition of violence so raw and to the point of even killing innocent bystanders can't be treated like nothing else than what it really is: a punishable crime!

How is it possible that a man (of any age) will ONLY pay a few dollars for stabbing someone else in the head?... is it me or that actually sounds for all these kids like: "go, kill everyone and scape with a few dollars fine"???

The aggressor was charged a few bucks for carrying a knife...

NOTHING WRONG THEN WITH STABBING THE OTHER STUDENT IN THE HEAD...!

[Baerboxer]

TB67

"The UK also allows in every third world dirtbag and Islamic radical who shows up at its border. They can blame the bleeding heart leftys for their problems."

"Five years. I speak American English like most of the English speaking world does."

Do you have any evidence to support your above comments? Or are they simply unsubstantiated and based on your naiive realism?

This problem is considerable worse in many countries than Thailand.

You claim its worse elsewhere, do YOU have any evidence to support your claims? Thailand is one of the most dangerous countries in the world as far as risk of murder is concerned, so I'm curious to hear about all these other countries so much worse where you have gangs of thugs from actual colleges going around murdering each other for school pride.

Try looking at the news reports from other countries. You'll see many countries blighted with similar violence. As I said in my post the allegiance may be gang, sports team, district, race, religion or whatever. But it's still tribal in nature.

I guess you're American, as you speak "American English". Several of my American friends have recently commentated that, in their, view, things are getting worse in most major American cities. Similar picture in UK and other parts of Europe. It's sad that the violent crime rate appears to be rising all over, but not a unique Thai phenomenon.

[Andre0720]

good God man.

Well T-Bird67 we have some things in common ive been here 5 years and im from America as well and I lean to the right, politically. I think that is about where our commonality ends.

I explained "tosser" to you as it was explained to me when I first arrived here and befriended people from different areas of the world and subsequently heard some of the many different forms of English that is spoken around the world with its different terms, sayings, etc. So unless you have lived under a rock for the past five years, only crawling out for AMCHAM events, I assume you too have heard this term and thus were asking for its definition in sarcasm.

You are not helping our arrogant stereotype much by asserting that everyone speaks English like we do, especially on a forum that is mostly non-American. That claim would be impossible to prove as people around the world are constantly learning English in different ways from different teachers. Do I really have to explain this to you?

Funny that you fault the UK's immigration policy for THE SAME POLICY OUR COUNTRY HAS AND WAS FOUNDED ON. Do you think the population explosion on the East Coast from 1880-1920 was due to an influx of first world, wealthy individuals? What about the Asian/Mexican population explosion of the 20th century in California? All rich first world Anglo Christians?

Your arguments about blaming society vs personal responsibility have been your only relevant posts here and I actually agree with some of what you said there. I urge you to stick to that topic as your tangents onto other matters have only served to reinforce the stereotypes that I and other Americans have worked to reverse.

Thanks for explaining the word "TOSSER". Never heard that word before.

[hellodolly]

Are all Thais of the human species? Sometimes I'm not sure.

It happens the world over TB67. Nothing new in it. You can say this about youth gangs in any country in the world. I would say myself they are less of a problem in Thailand than many other areas of the world.

If the "rest of the world" you are referring to is third world despotic hellholes than I would agree.

The surprising things about humans is they can get as low as you.

[FrankieFourFingers]

Living life like a firecracker quick is my fuse. Then dead as a deathpack the colors School I choose.

[Skywalker69]

"I stabbed a student in the head," says Pond, a pimply 18-year-old who escaped prosecution for the assault but was fined a few dollars for carrying a knife.

"Sometimes I feel bad about it, but it's what happens. We do it because it's a legend, passed down from the seniors in our school. We do it for pride."

A flee on a donkeys ass must have more braincells than this guy, my God.

[thatswhatuthought]

I was interested in the fact that they take pride in their respective schools. This leads me to think the schools may also be able to play more of a role (if they aren't already doing so). First, students who use violence should be expelled. Of course this should be evaluated on a case by case basis, with appropriate warnings where needed. But being ostracized from the school might undermine their need for group/pack bonding.

If this is about pride in one's school, and students have a surplus of physical energy, can't this be channeled into sport competitions and, for the brainier and less physically volatile, other sorts of competitions (I can't think of anything other than spelling Bs and speech competitions at the moment)? Oh, perhaps some multi-school activities such as art exhibitions? For the violent ones, how about kick-boxing matches? Just have an onsite kick-boxing coach (who's tough enough), and the kid's that think they are bad-asses get recruited onto the kickboxing team. Then there are competitions between schools. OK, maybe that's not a good idea, because it could too easily get turned into physical punishment. But a completely voluntary kick-boxing team with competitions between schools might be a good idea (anyone has a fight outside of the ring is penalized from fighting in the ring for a period of time).

I'm guessing the school is probably just a convenient way of the kids to self-segment themselves into various competing gangs. So, there needs to be a more meaningful way for them to gain respect among their peers.

The boot camp seems like a pretty good idea to teach students some no bullshit discipline, and force cooperation on them. At least the Thai govt. is taking some initiating in addressing the problem. I think they may do more to teach the students skills that will give them something of a future. If given a choice of doing something constructive that will get the respect of one's peers or whoever else AND help fortify one's future, I think kids will take that route rather than just do something nasty to look cool for a few minutes before accepting one's dim future as a subservient laborer.

I also agree with the people that said that 200 baht is NOT a penalty. Hell, those kids would probably pay 200 baht up front for the chance to stab another student in the head. The penalty should be some form of meaningful community service. I'm thinking something connected to a skill. Could be something like painting homes or landscaping. Just punishment won't work because it doesn't give kids something they can use to have a successful life.

You're one of a handfull that showed some thought in what u posted here. I've been living here for six years and reading the blogs here for about four. Many posts here are made with very little brain activity.

[thatswhatuthought]

Are all Thais of the human species? Sometimes I'm not sure.

It happens the world over TB67. Nothing new in it. You can say this about youth gangs in any country in the world. I would say myself they are less of a problem in Thailand than many other areas of the world.

If the "rest of the world" you are referring to is third world despotic hellholes than I would agree.

You sure do live up to the stereotypical view that us "yanks" are labeled with. You been to a big city ghetto or small city ghetto in the past 20 years? Get a grip.

[thatswhatuthought]

"I stabbed a student in the head," says Pond, a pimply 18-year-old who escaped prosecution for the assault but was fined a few dollars for carrying a knife.

"Sometimes I feel bad about it, but it's what happens. We do it because it's a legend, passed down from the seniors in our school. We do it for pride."

A flee on a donkeys ass must have more braincells than this guy, my God.

Some of the farangs that post here have fewer cells.

[crazydrummerpauly]

I read nearly every post here, I did not see any mention of parents, or parenting, or the lack thereof.

It has almost been 10 years since my first visit to LOS. The thing that really sticks in my mind on my first day in BKK was the absence of graffiti. Now it is every where.

I also remember, not being able to find a internet cafe easily.. Forget about wireless hotspot.

My point is parents are no longer parenting, the video games are taking over these young minds, and this is the result. Happening world over and gonna get much worse.

Post #55 did the parenting bit.

[thatswhatuthought]

good God man.

Well T-Bird67 we have some things in common ive been here 5 years and im from America as well and I lean to the right, politically. I think that is about where our commonality ends.

I explained "tosser" to you as it was explained to me when I first arrived here and befriended people from different areas of the world and subsequently heard some of the many different forms of English that is spoken around the world with its different terms, sayings, etc. So unless you have lived under a rock for the past five years, only crawling out for AMCHAM events, I assume you too have heard this term and thus were asking for its definition in sarcasm.

You are not helping our arrogant stereotype much by asserting that everyone speaks English like we do, especially on a forum that is mostly non-American. That claim would be impossible to prove as people around the world are constantly learning English in different ways from different teachers. Do I really have to explain this to you?

Funny that you fault the UK's immigration policy for THE SAME POLICY OUR COUNTRY HAS AND WAS FOUNDED ON. Do you think the population explosion on the East Coast from 1880-1920 was due to an influx of first world, wealthy individuals? What about the Asian/Mexican population explosion of the 20th century in California? All rich first world Anglo Christians?

Your arguments about blaming society vs personal responsibility have been your only relevant posts here and I actually agree with some of what you said there. I urge you to stick to that topic as your tangents onto other matters have only served to reinforce the stereotypes that I and other Americans have worked to reverse.

dam_n kblaze u beat me too it.

[cowslip]

THe usual clap-trap from the "hang-em-high" brigade I see.

wouldn't life be lovely if all problems were simply a case of black and white?

Firstly it might be a good to bear in mind that the streets of Thailand are NOT crawling with "killer student gangs".

However in a country where MPs take automatic weapons into restaurants and shoot people with apparent impunity, what can you expect of their spawn?

I could view this post as the usual clap trap ?

Yes - if you can coherently explain why

[tonglen]

Here's part of the problem right here:

quote:

"I stabbed a student in the head," says Pond, a pimply 18-year-old who escaped prosecution for the assault but was fined a few dollars for carrying a knife.

Stabbed a student in the HEAD and escaped prosecution?! Was merely fined a few dollars for the offfense?

"Law grows numb- justice does not go forth."

-Habakkuk 1:4

[blueshark]

I have heard a few comments about the army. Its real simple. Give every offender 6 years in the REAL army! They would have grown up by the time they finish. They would be fit, have a trade and hopefully be good citizens.

Why on earth would you want to throw them in a useless half cut military camp? with the very same other Sons of B*tches that are trying to kill each other? Makes no sense and is a half baked idea by uneducated bureaucrats trying to make a name for themselves.

I know one of my Thai Nephews is a utter shit. Has caused untold damage, rape and embarrassment to the family, started at one of these amazingly run vocational colleges which turned him into devils advocate over night. The last i heard of him he was in trouble trying to score yabba, then tried to take on the entire local mafia. He never made it to either the camp or the army.

Its plain to see, and I bet 90% of the parents would gladly sign them off for 6 years rather than put up with a cesspool of teenage rage and death.

Another no brainier obscured by the never ending Thai wisdom.

[wotaplonker]

"Deadly rivalries between student gangs have seen several teenagers gunned down in Bangkok since the start of the school year in May, leaving the kingdom's authorities scrambling for answers to a decades-old violent tradition"

They know the answer. We all know the answer. Stop allowing people to escape justice through paying bribes. Simple. Might take a year or two, but getting a 200 baht fine for stabbing someone in the head is just encouraging them to continue. Secondly, for juveniles, start harrassing the parents; fine them, have a judge order them to sort their kids out and failure to do so is contempt of court. Loads they could do but it would require an un corrupt judiciary and police, and a police that police.

thats what we should be doing here in the UK, but it be against their 'yuman rights' and the ruling liberal elite would not allow it as

"society is to blame"

[dcutman]

I read nearly every post here, I did not see any mention of parents, or parenting, or the lack thereof.

It has almost been 10 years since my first visit to LOS. The thing that really sticks in my mind on my first day in BKK was the absence of graffiti. Now it is every where.

I also remember, not being able to find a internet cafe easily.. Forget about wireless hotspot.

My point is parents are no longer parenting, the video games are taking over these young minds, and this is the result. Happening world over and gonna get much worse.

...then it seems you overlooked my post sent this morning:

The problem can just be rooted out if you start at the root which are THE PARENTS. Biggest problem here in Thailand is that most Thai parents give a toss about their children and on top of that the midle class wannabe Hi-So parents are too busy shopping and blind dating. How can the kids have self respect and self esteem if the parents can't express to them that they are loved and being cared for?

Also tradition and traditional beliefs play a big negative role here: There are Thai parents out there who never have hugged their children since they were toddlers, letting alone giving them a kiss or receiving one. It all comes together and leaves empty-shelled teenagers behind who have no respect for themselves and others and who can't feel true affection or sympathy for others. Believe me - the root of the problems are parents and how most Thai kids are brought up here! Many also are raised by uncles, aunts and grandparents who mostly are too old, too ignorant or too deep into gambling and booze to give a tart about their grandchildrens' or nephews' future... It's sad but true. Have seen enough in my 21+ years here.

Really makes me sad when I have to read that a teenager boasts about having someone stabbed in the head, getting away with murder and that this makes him proud. What a shitty world we live in...

Yupp - posted around 11:00 this morning and obviously missed by the majority here - the problem was addressed, but everyone kept going on writing about which country is the worst one in regards of teen crimes and whether or not bootcamps are a good idea, but never getting to the root of the problem...

My apologies Catweazle. Your post is spot on and it is amazing more people dont understand this.

The scary thing is when this cycle as I call it, gets rooted, it is impossible to stop without some sort of intervention. Gang bangers and hoodlums will continue to breed, more hoodlums generation after generation.

Sticking a teenager or very young adult in a drug and gang infested prison for years is not the answer, that is obvious. On the other hand governments around the world have been cutting budgets for intervention programs, such as sports programs, boot camps, vocational schools, and yes even the military, they are no longer taking these troubled youths.

Of course none of these programs will help, if these kids have no idea what a responsible person is supposed to act like in the first place. This sentence covers your point about surrogate parents(grandma, uncle) or parents that just have no time for their kids. Parents now just buy them a electronic device or let them go to the internet cafe to play videos.(electronic surrogate).

[kimamey]

TB67

"The UK also allows in every third world dirtbag and Islamic radical who shows up at its border. They can blame the bleeding heart leftys for their problems."

"Five years. I speak American English like most of the English speaking world does."

Do you have any evidence to support your above comments? Or are they simply unsubstantiated and based on your naiive realism?

This problem is considerable worse in many countries than Thailand.

You claim its worse elsewhere, do YOU have any evidence to support your claims? Thailand is one of the most dangerous countries in the world as far as risk of murder is concerned, so I'm curious to hear about all these other countries so much worse where you have gangs of thugs from actual colleges going around murdering each other for school pride.

I'm not sure the colleges are the main reason behind this. The colleges are just a way of differentiating between themselves but it could just as easily be something else.

I remember a while ago seeing angry young Muslim guys marching somewhere in the UK and thinking why don't you see the same with white men carrying crosses. I then realised that you often see white guys fighting at football matches but there aren't usually many non whites. It's all about identifying with a group which can then lead to conflict. If it wasn't college based it would be something else.

As for what to do I don't think there is just one answer. What is a punishment to one person isn't to another. I would think that military discipline would be good for some though.

[Rob8891]

"...We do it for pride."

Perhaps their misunderstood pride could be calmed down somewhat if they received a good spanking (or caning)...

Caning. That could certainly do it. I saw in the past a documentary on an individual who got caning as a punishment. He said that anyone who got caned once, will make sure he never gets it again.

Noooooo.... I was caned at school... all it taught me was to be more careful and make sure I did not get caught next time. Positive role models are far more effective. Perhaps the irony of your (and others') posts has escaped you in that you are suggesting that the best way to cure the violent behaviour that you quite rightly decry is to use your own brand of violence. Pots and kettles of an especially dark hue, methinks.

[kimamey]

TB67

"The UK also allows in every third world dirtbag and Islamic radical who shows up at its border. They can blame the bleeding heart leftys for their problems."

"Five years. I speak American English like most of the English speaking world does."

Do you have any evidence to support your above comments? Or are they simply unsubstantiated and based on your naiive realism?

This problem is considerable worse in many countries than Thailand.

You claim its worse elsewhere, do YOU have any evidence to support your claims? Thailand is one of the most dangerous countries in the world as far as risk of murder is concerned, so I'm curious to hear about all these other countries so much worse where you have gangs of thugs from actual colleges going around murdering each other for school pride.

Actually Thailand ranks 104th for murder at 4.8 / 100 000 per annum (Just by the way America is 110th at 4.2 / 100 000 per annum )

EDIT: Annum = 1 year , thought I'd save you a trip to the dictionary

Good that you translated that into "American" for him... Apparently most of the world speaks only that. :-)

Well said. I think more people speak American English purely because there are more of them. The rest who have spoken it for a long time have inherited it from the time British rule but have changed it over time. My Android phone has 9 versions of English.

Actually I don't think his American English is too hot either. I've noticed "Pleez" and "proned" which aren't correct in any form of English I know. Even when it's spelt right most of it doesn't make much sense. I think he may have upset some other Americans as well with his attitude.

I have to say this does seem rather violent but is it just Bangkok or does this sort of thing happen often elsewhere in Thailand.

Oh by the way he doesn't seem to know much about Europe either

[DeepInTheForest]

Are all Thais of the human species? Sometimes I'm not sure.

It happens the world over TB67. Nothing new in it. You can say this about youth gangs in any country in the world. I would say myself they are less of a problem in Thailand than many other areas of the world.

If the "rest of the world" you are referring to is third world despotic hellholes than I would agree.

Perhaps some additional information would alter your worldview...

http://www.guardian....uth-clubs-close

http://www.mdia1002.org/2011/?p=4750

http://www.kipnews.o...angs-in-canada/

http://qsi.cc/blog/a...ves/000256.html

http://www.cdc.gov/m...ml/mm6103a2.htm

http://www.smh.com.a...6857427685.html

[attento]

How about putting the parents in jail ? If the perpetrators of youth gang crime are found guilty, the judge should give the student criminals the option, either you go to jail or both your parents go. Maybe this would encourage parents to take greater responsibility for their childrens' behaviour.

[attento]

I have heard a few comments about the army. Its real simple. Give every offender 6 years in the REAL army! They would have grown up by the time they finish. They would be fit, have a trade and hopefully be good citizens.

Why on earth would you want to throw them in a useless half cut military camp? with the very same other Sons of B*tches that are trying to kill each other? Makes no sense and is a half baked idea by uneducated bureaucrats trying to make a name for themselves.

I know one of my Thai Nephews is a utter shit. Has caused untold damage, rape and embarrassment to the family, started at one of these amazingly run vocational colleges which turned him into devils advocate over night. The last i heard of him he was in trouble trying to score yabba, then tried to take on the entire local mafia. He never made it to either the camp or the army.

Its plain to see, and I bet 90% of the parents would gladly sign them off for 6 years rather than put up with a cesspool of teenage rage and death.

Another no brainier obscured by the never ending Thai wisdom.

But, would the Army want them ?

[brianP]

This school rivalry is just the beginning, I am seeing graffiti and gang tags all over Thailand. In many USA cities, the citizen people are trapped in gang land ,they live behind barred windows and a trip to the store could mean death. The old especially are victimized by gangs that make them a prisoner in their own homes and neighborhoods.

I hate to see Thailand follow this cancerous western gang mentality. The youth here should be doing their best to learn and compete in the real world, not fighting over ego fed perceptions and trivialities. 3 strikes laws and anti-gang special laws and association penalties are a great way to get the gangs together in prison, but better there then on the streets. I too, believe that these bad apples could be of use in the military fighting the anti-Thailand insurgents of the south.Then these kids could become men and really have some pride and respect for helping our great Thailand. It seems all the bad things i got the family away from are haunting me here now.

[cowslip]

This school rivalry is just the beginning, I am seeing graffiti and gang tags all over Thailand. In many USA cities, the citizen people are trapped in gang land ,they live behind barred windows and a trip to the store could mean death. The old especially are victimized by gangs that make them a prisoner in their own homes and neighborhoods.

I hate to see Thailand follow this cancerous western gang mentality. The youth here should be doing their best to learn and compete in the real world, not fighting over ego fed perceptions and trivialities. 3 strikes laws and anti-gang special laws and association penalties are a great way to get the gangs together in prison, but better there then on the streets. I too, believe that these bad apples could be of use in the military fighting the anti-Thailand insurgents of the south.Then these kids could become men and really have some pride and respect for helping our great Thailand. It seems all the bad things i got the family away from are haunting me here now.

"This school rivalry is just the beginning" - nonsense - read up on it and learn.t

Just because you've only just heard about it doesn't been it hasn't been around for years and years - centuries even.

[cowslip]

"...We do it for pride."

Perhaps their misunderstood pride could be calmed down somewhat if they received a good spanking (or caning)...

Caning. That could certainly do it. I saw in the past a documentary on an individual who got caning as a punishment. He said that anyone who got caned once, will make sure he never gets it again.

Noooooo.... I was caned at school... all it taught me was to be more careful and make sure I did not get caught next time. Positive role models are far more effective. Perhaps the irony of your (and others') posts has escaped you in that you are suggesting that the best way to cure the violent behaviour that you quite rightly decry is to use your own brand of violence. Pots and kettles of an especially dark hue, methinks.

It seems it taught you to be violent to children.

[cowslip]

I have heard a few comments about the army. Its real simple. Give every offender 6 years in the REAL army! They would have grown up by the time they finish. They would be fit, have a trade and hopefully be good citizens.

Why on earth would you want to throw them in a useless half cut military camp? with the very same other Sons of B*tches that are trying to kill each other? Makes no sense and is a half baked idea by uneducated bureaucrats trying to make a name for themselves.

I know one of my Thai Nephews is a utter shit. Has caused untold damage, rape and embarrassment to the family, started at one of these amazingly run vocational colleges which turned him into devils advocate over night. The last i heard of him he was in trouble trying to score yabba, then tried to take on the entire local mafia. He never made it to either the camp or the army.

Its plain to see, and I bet 90% of the parents would gladly sign them off for 6 years rather than put up with a cesspool of teenage rage and death.

Another no brainier obscured by the never ending Thai wisdom.

But, would the Army want them ?

I can't see the army as a cure far anything; anyone who has been in military service seems to have got some personality problem to greater or lesser extent - drink, violence inability to adapt to normal society, lack of responsibility, inability to act on their own initiative, social skills the list goes on........I also note they seem to have a very fine barrier between acceptable behaviour and violence.

I think we have enough problems with ex-military personal without filling our forces with people who don't even want to be there.

[happysanook]

Lack of proper punishment for most crimes in Thailand is the problem. Motoring offences at best cost a couple of hundred baht - no licence suspension, pay offs by those with "friends", and the easy bail conditions, where murderers caught in the act are not only bailed after arrest, but bailed pending an appeal against conviction.

Hurt the criminals hard. Minimum fines of 5000bt, nobody exempt, no matter who you are or who you know, and meaningful prison sentences when required.

The youth (mainly just troublemakers rather than hardened criminals) should be pushed into minimum 2 years military service, and do away with conscription.

Fortunately, Thailand does not seem to have too many do -gooders, but I suppose with corrupt practices, they would not be required!

5000 baht for not wearing a helmet? That's an entire month's salary for someone on minimum wage in Thailand... The equivalent of $1000 in the US for a minor traffic infraction?

[FNQ]

As an ex national service man l can agree with you, did me no harm

Sent from my GT-P5100 using Thaivisa Connect App

[catweazle]

I read nearly every post here, I did not see any mention of parents, or parenting, or the lack thereof.

It has almost been 10 years since my first visit to LOS. The thing that really sticks in my mind on my first day in BKK was the absence of graffiti. Now it is every where.

I also remember, not being able to find a internet cafe easily.. Forget about wireless hotspot.

My point is parents are no longer parenting, the video games are taking over these young minds, and this is the result. Happening world over and gonna get much worse.

...then it seems you overlooked my post sent this morning:

The problem can just be rooted out if you start at the root which are THE PARENTS. Biggest problem here in Thailand is that most Thai parents give a toss about their children and on top of that the midle class wannabe Hi-So parents are too busy shopping and blind dating. How can the kids have self respect and self esteem if the parents can't express to them that they are loved and being cared for?

Also tradition and traditional beliefs play a big negative role here: There are Thai parents out there who never have hugged their children since they were toddlers, letting alone giving them a kiss or receiving one. It all comes together and leaves empty-shelled teenagers behind who have no respect for themselves and others and who can't feel true affection or sympathy for others. Believe me - the root of the problems are parents and how most Thai kids are brought up here! Many also are raised by uncles, aunts and grandparents who mostly are too old, too ignorant or too deep into gambling and booze to give a tart about their grandchildrens' or nephews' future... It's sad but true. Have seen enough in my 21+ years here.

Really makes me sad when I have to read that a teenager boasts about having someone stabbed in the head, getting away with murder and that this makes him proud. What a shitty world we live in...

Yupp - posted around 11:00 this morning and obviously missed by the majority here - the problem was addressed, but everyone kept going on writing about which country is the worst one in regards of teen crimes and whether or not bootcamps are a good idea, but never getting to the root of the problem...

My apologies Catweazle. Your post is spot on and it is amazing more people dont understand this.

The scary thing is when this cycle as I call it, gets rooted, it is impossible to stop without some sort of intervention. Gang bangers and hoodlums will continue to breed, more hoodlums generation after generation.

Sticking a teenager or very young adult in a drug and gang infested prison for years is not the answer, that is obvious. On the other hand governments around the world have been cutting budgets for intervention programs, such as sports programs, boot camps, vocational schools, and yes even the military, they are no longer taking these troubled youths.

Of course none of these programs will help, if these kids have no idea what a responsible person is supposed to act like in the first place. This sentence covers your point about surrogate parents(grandma, uncle) or parents that just have no time for their kids. Parents now just buy them a electronic device or let them go to the internet cafe to play videos.(electronic surrogate).

Hi Dcutman,

thanks! You're right - intervention is required if the circle repeats itself over generations. We have a similar problem in Germany where people live on social welfare payments in third generation. The kids just follow up - why look for a job, if you can live on welfare, watching tellie all day?

Fact is also that some people simply are born criminals and scumbags. No program will ever change them. Had such a person as biz partner once. Regardless of your own approach trying to solve a bad situation, be it playing nicely along, act aggressive/defensive or offering compromizes to find a solution - such a person will always find a way to put you at blame and then attack you, either verbally or physical. Bad teens do it all the time - if they have found a victim (preferrably a smaller guy with glasses or anyone appearing weak, like old people), there is nothing the victim could say or do that would stop them from attacking. Only help here is to react as aggressively and as brutal as possible if you want to get out of the confrontation alive.

You know, before I met that psycho biz partner I was always wondering why there must be wars, hate and fighting... That guy opened my eyes - he simply is bad and NEEDS stress, unrest and confrontation - it is like he feeds on it. If suddenly he is in a safe and nice environment and people treat him well, he automatically will conclude that "There's something wrong here, they want to f#$$ me over and I have to defend myself NOW!" Damaged goods I believe it is called. And unfortunately many of the Thai youth fits that profile