Verbal Abuse From Student

[scooterboy]

Well, good on ya, Chonabot - and I think you handled it very well. It's never anything near a laughing matter when kids at school try to cross the line, whatever the cause.

As has been pointed out, kids rarely provoke teachers at all - it's against all traditions. And yes, obviously there will be a bad apple here and there - and I believe any uncomfortable situation such as this should be dealt with promptly and efficiently. Good to hear that all turned out well, as there's definitely no guarantee that all ends well, every time.

- Good for you guys that had the opportunity to "fix" things themselves, as well.

[chonabot]

The guys were sitting on the wall. So, why did you talk to them? Why didn't you simply just move the bike yourself and ride home? How did you know it was his bike? Maybe it wasn't. Maybe you set the whole thing up for yourself. He was speaking Lao to you. At first it was not too bad. When you make a bid deal out of it maybe you brought the whole thing on yourself. Which area is your school?

I talked to them because they were my students - and his bike had blocked mine - I had seen him on this bike - it's quite distinctive.

It's Thai culture for teachers and students to converse.

It's also Thai culture for the students to show some courtesy to their teachers.

I understand Lao/Isaan as I have been in and around this area for 17 years.

My school is in Kalasin - should I have accepted his bad manners and simply brushed it off?

He admitted today to the Director that he swore at me and apologised.

I find your post interesting - were you a social worker in the west?

Thank you for answering a few of my questions. Maybe you could have put your additional information in your original post. Was I social worker in the west? No I was not, but maybe I could make some more money counselling a few frustrated Scottish educationalists in Thailand. You are taking things far too seriously there in Kalasin. Use your imagination.

Sorry for the omissions, 'It's not serious' is a phrase I hear too often here - but it becomes serious when an incident can spiral into the scenarios described by a few posters here - ie total lack of respect from your students.

Plus it's also a case of learning from these things - as the student hopefully will have learnt - so have I

[chonabot]

"But today was a bit nasty. I was on my way to my scooter and noticed another bike was parked directly behind." ( Whose bike??) - His bike

"I saw a few M3 students of mine sitting and to be honest they were not my favourite bunch." ( The students sitting there didn't like you at all) - Have you met them?

"I asked if the bike was theirs and they just smiled, I asked them to move it and still no response." ( They didn't understand you and maybe it wasn't one of their bikes. Why would they remove a bike for you, if they don't like you?) a. -it was theiir/his bike b. It should be ingrained in a students ethos to always help a teacher when requested- even a farang teacher

Have you ever asked students to help you in school - ie to move something or carry loads fo books, when there are too many for one person? Would they refuse if the books were not theirs?

" I'd had a fairly busy day and didn't really need a showdown with these young chaps." ( You were exhausted, maybe because you couldn't handle some of them?) - Tired as I taught 4 hours straight - over 60 kids per class in a hot room - all good classes and handled well - Thanks !

"So I started moving the scooter gently and one of them said ' Bok Farang Bok hah ! ' ( Not yet really escalated) - Is it ok for a student to say this to a teacher..in any culture?

I looked at him and said fairly forcefully - 'Is this your bike? If so move it please' ( Would you move a bike for somebody else, especially if you don't like him/her?) - see above

He didn't shift so I moved it a bit more and got on my scooter. ( If it wasn't his, why should he?) - err....r see above

Unfotunately there still wasn't enough space - I looked at the kid again and said ' Move your bike !'" ( Whose bike? Did he understand you? You thought it was his bike!) - it was his bike and I speak Thai....I

"He sauntered over and was staring daggers at me and I asked - Mee ben hah mai ? ( You were asking him ,if he wanted to fight in front of his friends!)

Is it possible that you already had many problems with some of them before? Could it be that they just hate you?

Of course, he shouldn't have said this about your mother, but is it possible that you'd started all this BS?

They were not your favorite bunch only means that they didn't like you, or? There're always two sides of a coin---------

-

It's funny that you responded to the same post in 2 very different ways - you seem to have decided on a lot of grey areas here - care to share your theory?

If you teach in Thailand I'm surprised at some of your idealogies regarding why a Thai student has the right to act in such a way.

[chonabot]

One last word - I would have thought it was fairly obvious that the bike was theirs - why would they complain and curse me for moving

the bike myself if it was not their property?

[Scott]

So to conclude and answer a few questions - I am a fairly popular teacher - no one hates me (AFAIK)and I have never had to call on a Thai teacher up until now.

He was ridiculed by his classmates today and I had a lot of support from the Thai teachers.

There is no bad history - I have been there one semester - I think the hormones got the better of a 15 year old lad who was trying to show off to his peers.

No rocket science but Thanks for all of your replies - especially the well thought out ones.

It sounds like the situation was handled and resolved in a constructive manner. Students act up and act out at times. It might because of problems, or it might be just a part of growing up and learning what you can and can't do.

Schools are there to educate, but they are also a big part of the process of socializing young people. How we react to situations like this is a big part of the learning process. Hopefully, this young man (and his friends by extension) have learned a valuable life lesson.

[sirchai]

"But today was a bit nasty. I was on my way to my scooter and noticed another bike was parked directly behind." ( Whose bike??) - His bike

"I saw a few M3 students of mine sitting and to be honest they were not my favourite bunch." ( The students sitting there didn't like you at all) - Have you met them?

"I asked if the bike was theirs and they just smiled, I asked them to move it and still no response." ( They didn't understand you and maybe it wasn't one of their bikes. Why would they remove a bike for you, if they don't like you?) a. -it was theiir/his bike b. It should be ingrained in a students ethos to always help a teacher when requested- even a farang teacher

Have you ever asked students to help you in school - ie to move something or carry loads fo books, when there are too many for one person? Would they refuse if the books were not theirs?

" I'd had a fairly busy day and didn't really need a showdown with these young chaps." ( You were exhausted, maybe because you couldn't handle some of them?) - Tired as I taught 4 hours straight - over 60 kids per class in a hot room - all good classes and handled well - Thanks !

"So I started moving the scooter gently and one of them said ' Bok Farang Bok hah ! ' ( Not yet really escalated) - Is it ok for a student to say this to a teacher..in any culture?

I looked at him and said fairly forcefully - 'Is this your bike? If so move it please' ( Would you move a bike for somebody else, especially if you don't like him/her?) - see above

He didn't shift so I moved it a bit more and got on my scooter. ( If it wasn't his, why should he?) - err....r see above

Unfotunately there still wasn't enough space - I looked at the kid again and said ' Move your bike !'" ( Whose bike? Did he understand you? You thought it was his bike!) - it was his bike and I speak Thai....I

"He sauntered over and was staring daggers at me and I asked - Mee ben hah mai ? ( You were asking him ,if he wanted to fight in front of his friends!)

Is it possible that you already had many problems with some of them before? Could it be that they just hate you?

Of course, he shouldn't have said this about your mother, but is it possible that you'd started all this BS?

They were not your favorite bunch only means that they didn't like you, or? There're always two sides of a coin---------

-

It's funny that you responded to the same post in 2 very different ways - you seem to have decided on a lot of grey areas here - care to share your theory?

If you teach in Thailand I'm surprised at some of your idealogies regarding why a Thai student has the right to act in such a way.

I've got a 14 year old son, who's at a school in lower north east. No student in the world has the right to say such things to you, but some of them do.

He'd met many weird "foreign teachers" before and also lost his "respect" for them. "Teachers" who crashed their bikes into other students' bikes, being so god damned drunk.

Others sit at the local market place and get drunk every night that my son can smell their consumed alcohol. How could my son respect those guys as "teachers" when smelling like shit?

Even if you speak Thai/Lao perfectly doesn't make you to one of them. As another guy had mentioned the "Yeed Mae" is the worst in this country, somebody could say to you.

That was my message that you'd have to do something about it.

But understanding their culture- as you do- shouldn't make you upset about a wrong parked motorbike. You've changed the story now that you knew it was this guy's bike.

Your post never said that, but I went to the local temple and asked a well-known monk.

Let's put it this way. When I'd say to a local in my area: " Khun Mee Phann Haa Mai?" in such a situation, I would definitive ask for troubles.

But now we're talking about a 15 year old boy. Nobody knows his personal circumstances, right? Do you?

I had a German exchange student a while ago and the M6 guys took him out.

There was always a gun with them, might have been an extension of their penises. Wouldn't like to find that out, to be honest.

I can tell you for a fact that some of them would be able to kill you, not even thinking about the consequences.

It happened before and it will happen again. A young bloke at a school in my town got killed for less. He was only 14, it. was just about a bitchy girl.

So many guys (students) in the north-east know that there won't be a future/ family/ money/ happiness etc for them and they freak out easily.

Forgive me, when I'm wrong. Wish you the best.----

Edited September 14, 2012 by sirchai

[tinfoilhat]

no student would disrespect any thai teacher, no matter the circumstances.

Actually a group of students kicked the crap out of one of their teachers recently

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/578402-rowdy-students-severely-beat-high-school-teacher-samut-prakan/

interestingly the majority of violence goes the other way, Thai teacher beating students.

I see no other way you could have gone about it, but its far from an ideal situation, because while you will have shown them you are not a pushover, you will most certainly have escalated their dislike of you.

[sirchai]

It's time for"outing" now.

Once I was young, went to school as most other young kids too. When I went to high school, many kids got high on the toilet ,or somewhere else.

Well, I was one of the bad guys. Problem after problem until I had to see the principal. Three teachers didn't teach our class any more.

I could easily fake my mom or dad's signature for "receiving" several warnings.

Our Math teacher was mentally so destroyed that he started to work in a country somewhere in Africa.

Then the facts. " Mr. M........you've got two chances. You could say our school isn't appropriate enough for you and you leave.

Or we just kick you out. I decided to take the first offer, looked for another school, did finish high school, went to university and earned a BA.

Nobody now would understand how the "Flower Power Hippie" times could affect me Won't miss this time without computers, cellphones and telephone sex.

. But I do know what kids can do to a grown man. I hope Mr. Ganser's still alive and teaching maths to African kids. God save his soul.---

Edited September 14, 2012 by sirchai

[zzdocxx]

Thanks for posting, chonabot.

It is very easy to play devil's advocate, which basically presumes that your perception and judgement of the situation is completely wrong. That despite the fact that you were there to experience it first hand and we were not, and that many of us can recognize that scenario from our own youthful and adult experience.

[Sharp]

One last word - I would have thought it was fairly obvious that the bike was theirs - why would they complain and curse me for moving

the bike myself if it was not their property?

Hey , u did ok my friend ,I would of done a lot worse....

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

[phuturatica]

Interesting post.

I think the best course of action is to definitely do something rather than let it slide, otherwise you will lose control of the students and they'll get worse.

However the situation was all handled quite well judging by what has been said.

I am lucky that I have never had to put up with such abuse from students but I'm prepared for when the day comes!

[chonabot]

Thanks all - Phuturatica ; I hope it doesn't happen to you or any other teacher - this kind of behaviour is probably commonplace back in the UK.

If it happens again hopefully I will see the warning signs, the rest of his class were definitely less than pleased with him.

I am more than able to look after myself in the real world but I had to use a lot of restraint on Thursday afternoon - that pleased me more than the outcome even.

I never had a run in with this lad in class, he sits with a bunch who do not cause trouble but there is not much of a connection betwenn me and them.

For example a few weeks ago I decided to get all of my M3 students into an inter class team competition.

This was to run to the end of the semester and comprised of several activities based on English comprehension, role play and reading.

I donated 5000 baht of my own cash to the winning teams. As you could expect almost all of the students were keen to take part.

I asked them to choose a name and design a logo and pick up to 4 members.

There are nearly 1000 students do about 250 teams with logos - I collected these and made up a huge league table with scanning the logos down etc - took many hours.

A lot of work but worthwhile in my opinion

This lad and his mates were the only students who were not interested in the competition - no big deal as there were more than enough to make it a success.

But when I asked the lads about their lack of interest they just replied that these games were for kids and they were not kids.

I left it at that and gave them some for the rest of the lesson- they would not take part whatever I tried

So hopefully that may answer anyone's questions about my history with the lad. Of course I left out a few details in the original post but I wrote it an hour after the event with a less than level head.

If any teachers out there have a heavy load of students - this team activity is a very good way to keep them interested - of course the prize money can be reduced

[Somtamnication]

So, what happened at 8 a.m. with this brat? Did I miss the update?

[kaorop]

Its not true that students dont show disrespect to thai teachers, although uncommon I would think, I saw it first hand, a very senior thai teacher, quite distresssed by it, who did nothing (that i knew) about it.

[Warhammer820]

Thanks all - Phuturatica ; I hope it doesn't happen to you or any other teacher - this kind of behaviour is probably commonplace back in the UK.

If it happens again hopefully I will see the warning signs, the rest of his class were definitely less than pleased with him.

I am more than able to look after myself in the real world but I had to use a lot of restraint on Thursday afternoon - that pleased me more than the outcome even.

I never had a run in with this lad in class, he sits with a bunch who do not cause trouble but there is not much of a connection betwenn me and them.

For example a few weeks ago I decided to get all of my M3 students into an inter class team competition.

This was to run to the end of the semester and comprised of several activities based on English comprehension, role play and reading.

I donated 5000 baht of my own cash to the winning teams. As you could expect almost all of the students were keen to take part.

I asked them to choose a name and design a logo and pick up to 4 members.

There are nearly 1000 students do about 250 teams with logos - I collected these and made up a huge league table with scanning the logos down etc - took many hours.

A lot of work but worthwhile in my opinion

This lad and his mates were the only students who were not interested in the competition - no big deal as there were more than enough to make it a success.

But when I asked the lads about their lack of interest they just replied that these games were for kids and they were not kids.

I left it at that and gave them some for the rest of the lesson- they would not take part whatever I tried

So hopefully that may answer anyone's questions about my history with the lad. Of course I left out a few details in the original post but I wrote it an hour after the event with a less than level head.

If any teachers out there have a heavy load of students - this team activity is a very good way to keep them interested - of course the prize money can be reduced

At my school in America, this is a daily problem and I'm dam_n tired of it. I literally can not teach my last class because they are too busy throwing things, socializing and talking tough to each other. The administration is too backed up with other discipline issues to come to my class to try to fix it and the numbers that their parents turned into the office to contact them has been disconnected.

[arunsakda]

I was an assistant English teacher in Japan in the early nineties. Only had one problem in two years, a 3rd year junior high student got all up in my grill in a remote area of the school、 *Foreign script edited out*. "fxxcking stinking foreigner". He was bigger than me and I was intimidated. But back then corporal punishment was common and the Japanese teachers would NEVER tolerate anything like that. I smacked him with the back of my hand and told him not to mess with me. No more problems .

Edited September 16, 2012 by Scott
foreign script edited out

[Scott]

A post with foreign script has been edited. English is the only language permitted on the forum with the exception of the Thai language forum.

[Rhys]

you are the teacher... they are the students

[chonabot]

you are the teacher... they are the students

This is an undeniable fact

Unfortunately there were a few more variables involved - life is never simple.

Edited September 16, 2012 by chonabot

[pomchop]

I have heard that corporal punishment is not supposed to happen...sure didn't stop one of the male thai teachers from giving a couple of high school boys who had been fighting from bending them over in his office and giving them some really good whacks on the rear with a bamboo stick...they sure seemed to get the message and walked out with tears in their eyes and their arms around each other.

[simon43]

Physical punishment is forbidden by law since 2005!!.

From my own observations, that law apparently does not apply to teachers who are of Thai nationality.....

[Scott]

An off-topic, inflammatory post has been removed.

[phuturatica]

Physical punishment is forbidden by law since 2005!!.

From my own observations, that law apparently does not apply to teachers who are of Thai nationality.....

Likewise.

Physical punishment is rarely given but will be given if necessary by the Thai teachers.

[Somtamnication]

Arai wa? Really? In what reality to you live in? At my school, and at previous schools, the beatings are in stereo! Classroom to my left, whack! To my right, whack! Daily.

Not only canning, but also self abuse. Catch a student talking too much or verbally abusing another student? They have to slap their mouth 50 times.

The definition of "rarely given" is too broad a term.

[chonabot]

Not only canning, but also self abuse.

Canned self abuse? ...nasty ......

[Warhammer820]

Although that is kind of messed up, it does keep the students in line..

[wellred]

What does 'Yed mae' mean?

Next time corner him in private and kick him in the balls. No witnesses and he will know his place.

[theblether]

Right before you all start flaming me I really don't have a clue if this idea would work, but seeing how you guys are all wanting to torture, dismember, and grind the last bastid into pieces I was thinking of a more peaceful solution..........

Eh.......why don't you get a couple of monks to come to the school and talk to him about his behaviour?

Is that the most ludicrous idea you have ever heard? Use your head and not your fists, I would love to see the look on his face when two monks walk in the class and call him out for counselling.

I'm going to get my coat.......I just know I'm gonna suffer the same fate as you have planned for the wee guy for saying that , be gentle on me, you know by now I'm a bit of an idiot

[chonabot]

Right before you all start flaming me I really don't have a clue if this idea would work, but seeing how you guys are all wanting to torture, dismember, and grind the last bastid into pieces I was thinking of a more peaceful solution..........

Eh.......why don't you get a couple of monks to come to the school and talk to him about his behaviour?

Is that the most ludicrous idea you have ever heard? Use your head and not your fists, I would love to see the look on his face when two monks walk in the class and call him out for counselling.

I'm going to get my coat.......I just know I'm gonna suffer the same fate as you have planned for the wee guy for saying that , be gentle on me, you know by now I'm a bit of an idiot

In all honesty that is a very good idea.

Unfortunately too late now - but I'm sure it would have been very effective.

He did not get a kick in the balls, his advisor kind of grabbed him by the shirt and that was the only physical contact.

I will be teaching him today and will do my best not to pay too much attention to him, hopefully I shouldn't need to.

[theblether]

Thanks for that Chonabot, and I'm relieved that I didn't get flamed. I'm the first to put my hand up up and admit that I am not familiar with the nuances of Thai culture.

Aggression begets aggression.........so defuse the aggression in the best way possible, get a monk to ask the offending pupil........" why did you call your teacher ..........? "

I would imagine that would have a far greater and longer lasting effect than getting involved in a war of attrition with a teenager / gang of teenagers.