The Hotbutton Racism Thread

[submaniac]

I am going to explain what is precipitating this post. I am Thai. I have been on Thaivisa now for about 5 years now. I have seen derogatory comments directed at the Thai people. Usually they were by troll posters who really never lasted very long and disappeared. Howeve this past month or so it seems to have increased. Maybe because it is Thaivisa’s “low season” and only the trollish bitter twisted antisocial element of Thaivisa have remained while everyone else went off. Maybe it is because there is now the “like” button where you don’t need to actually say anything but “like” the comment. In any event, I have at least noticed the comments more so lately than I have noticed before.

I have been taking a break from posting on Thaivisa for a minute due to being generally irritated at some of the comments. Rather than keep it to myself, I am writing this post. As follows are some of the comments which kind of typify to me the kind of comments that I am talking about. (And these are just made for example, it really isn’t hard to know the kind of comments I am talking about.)

timestamp='1293861249' post='4122127'

I am certainly in the last catagory of perceiving many Thais as twelve year olds - hence the rich elites ease in manipulation. It really odd but it seems to be so deep within the Thai make-up I'm not sure it can ever be changed -

timestamp='1293856075' post='4121973'

... no amount of education can solve for that ... at low IQ levels, basic common judgment is not possible... perhaps that is why many perceive Thailand as a nation of children

timestamp='1345027222' post='5575076']

It's not the odd one or two. They [Thais] are all halfwits.

Posted 2012-08-15 13:35:28

The whole [Thai] culture is based upon grown men still sucking from their mothers titties

Posted 2012-08-15 15:50:06

I would love to say XXXX is wrong, but I can't. I take people as individuals, but from all Thais that I have met, only 2 are what I would call good people. I don't think it's me being over judgmental and I would dearly love to met more decent honest Thais.

timestamp='1322021123' post='4866115']

Perhaps they should be banned from using motorized vehicles and start them off on buffalo and cart again to see if they can develop driving skills bit by bit.

2012-08-29 20:06:53

I would say it would be very easy to colonise Thailand. All you would need to do is the following;

Give each house hold a pick up truck body (doesn't need to drive anywhere, so the shell will be OK).

Park it outside the parents house, fill it with fags and booze and invite the local men to sit on it all day. Food delivered by mummy 3 times daily.

That's about it. They'd all be happy as larry. Mum would have her baby boys close at hand, and the men would do what they would love best. Might need to chuck in a brothel or two on a rationing system.

First off, under Thaivisa rules any overt derogatory statement about any particular race or whatnot will result in the post being deleted and the member going on vacation or being banned. For example if anyone said “The [insert name of people] are subhumans and should be rounded up and sent to extermination camps” will result in the post being deleted and the poster being unable to post anything else on Thaivisa. By necessity, comments on Thaivisa are going to be more “subtle” than blatant. And it’s the subtle comments that I would like to address.

I was thinking about this when I was trying to think of how to explain my thoughts. It’s like this. The comments that are being posted remind me of what I learned in school about slavery and segregation. The United States, unlike virtually every English speaking country, was the only one that had institutionalized slavery. Following slavery, the United States then had (in many states) segregation. As a part of American national atonement, every school child is required to learn about slavery and segregation in school.

What I was taught in school is that the justification used for slavery was that people from Africa had less developed brains. They could not be free because they thought like children. Thus by enslaving them, the benevolent “masters” where doing them a favor because they couldn’t take care of themselves. For those brought up in the American system, they will know what a “picaninny caricature” is and generally cringe. For those who don’t know what I am talking about please see this article: http://students.haverford.edu/kkoltunf/Ken/Religion_236_Web/Minstrelsy/Characters.html

When I see comments that Thais are lazy, stupid, a nation of halfwits, or are a “nation of children” it reminds me of what was said during slavery and segregation. It does not imply “equality” to me; it implies that the person making the comments believes himself/herself/his culture to be superior, and one is the master and the other is the servant.

I do know that when I see comments that I take issue with, some people on the forum regularly do speak up. Then again, some others post comments agreeing with the previous comments. Some people hit the “like” button. However, the majority simply ignore the comments as if they were not made at all. And I am addressing this post to the “silent majority” to see what your thoughts are.

It’s like this: you walk into a bar with someone. You may not know this person very well other than as an acquaintance (your stepsister’s cousin’s friend). However, the entire bar sees you together. Towards the end of the evening, the person you are with turns to another patron who is seated next to him. Just for fun, let’s make him 6feet 4 inches tall, 285 lbs, a professional mixed martial artist, and black. The acquaintance then turns to him and says “you people are a child-like, half witted lazy people that should only be allowed on a buffalo and cart. None of you people are honest and decent.” Now, some people would pull the acquaintance aside and apologize. However, if you don’t do that, and sit quietly by and allow the acquaintance to continue making the comments, the question is whether the opinion of the guy making the comments will be attributed to you if you don’t say anything. In other words is the big man going to punch you next after your acquaintance is knocked out unconscious on the floor?

Does anyone remember John Behan, Mr. BTS balloon? If you recall all Falang got a bad rap because of one man. Now suppose that the uproar did not die down. Instead Thai language newspapers and television started pulling comments from internet web forums and publishing them or reading them over the air. The headline reads “Look at What the Falang are saying about us.” Would you be comfortable with some of the comments you have read if it was being read over Thai television?

Let me throw something else out: I know many of you have either adopted or half Thai children, or have a Thai wife or Girlfriend. Let’s suppose you take your children or spouse to your home country. You go shopping. You go to a different aisle of the store and when you come back you overhear one of your countrymen telling your wife, child, or girlfriend some of the comments complained of here: “You people are a bunch of halfwits”; “You people are just a bunch of children.” “You people are all lazy.” “None of you people are honest.”

The question is whether you say something. Or do you tell your child, girlfriend, or wife “oh you’re just being sensitive”.

Well, I am in the store. I have heard the comments. So I am saying something. It should be noted that this post is not directed at everyone. I know not everyone is making the comments, and I know that people disagree and speak up. But it goes back to the bar scenario, or the BTS balloon guy. What you did not say and may disagree with, may nonetheless be attributed to you because another Falang said it. By being another Falang you metaphorically walked into a bar together.

I am also thinking I should make this post and leave this thread to let others discuss it. I want the issues to be discussed CIVILLY among the members of the board. However, I don't want it to turn into "angry Thai spouts off" or me standing on top of a mountain preaching "thou shalt not..." Yes I am Thai. I also think I am more tolerant than your average Somchai down the street. If I comment on it, my reaction is certainly going to be less volatile than Somchai's. I have expressed my thoughts. I will let you take the ball and run with it, come what may, good or bad.

Edited September 14, 2012 by submaniac

[nattydread]

i would love to give my views on your PC rant but I fear the mods will suspend anybody who dares to contradict you

there is becoming less and less freedom of speech on the internet

[toybits]

Freedom comes with responsibility. It does not give license to demean others.

[hookedondhamma]

Come on submaniac, you already know what the thread is going to turn into.

As for comparing slavery with the 'demeaning comments towards thais', there really is no comparison. America is just as different as thailand.

As far as being too sensitive though, there is an equivalent here - ' ... think too much/ tink too mut '

No need for starting a thread and then leaving, because when the s*** hits the fan, as it always does, certain people will come out of the woodwork which you more than likely will respond too.

I do recommend that if it does grate you that much, just try to spend as much time away from TV as you can. You can't change someone's opinion no matter how hard you try. That starts from within. Otherwise you're subjecting yourself to endless irritation and unnecessary migraines.

[Sayonarax]

Oh look its the comment police coming to town.

[Swiss1960]

I think you have a point, submaniac, there are people on here that post some not very sensitive and sometimes offending comments about Thai in general and probably, their could be more reporting to mods for deletion (you can do this, you know that) and other people (like me) could object more and more clearly and not just ignore those comments.

However, from the things I see on TV, it is still a small minority of people who post such negative views and thus, you might currently be in a very sensitive mood and overrate those comments?

Also, I believe that if their would be a similar website for Thai in foreign countries, we might see similar offending comments from the Thai about the people living in that country, so I guess it is not only one-sided... I have not always been treated nicely by Thai people when I am in my favorite country, but I personally do not take those negative experiences for a general rant.

Just one example: I am Farang in your country and I do not mind being called farang... but I do realize that probably 50% of the Thai who call me farang do so with a very negative tone... shall I now condemn all Thais or should I say (as I do) ok, those 50% are less than 0.0000000001% of the Thai population, so let's not generalize and just ignore...

Maybe you should think the same about those posters with very negative attitude towards Thailand and the Thai population.

[maxme]

it not like it doesnt go both ways

farangs are thought of as stupid by thai people because they cant get their head around the backwards way thais do things

because thats not the way they were probably taught how to do it as the proper way in uk or usa education system

anyone who is rich sends their kids outside to be educated ,surely thats a good indication that the education system is bonked ?

The only way to gain understanding is to have mutual respect, unfortunately some here don't wish for it and start their own pity party.

There are actually many farangs here who are quite the opposite to what Submaniac is describing and as far as I can tell , he is probably not the right canditate to proclaim justice as he too likes to give out degatory remarks. It doesn't help that he doesn't talk to the people who wants to understand him either so this is just a lame attempt of deflecting criticism that has been aimed at him.

And Submaniac... nice trolling by the way...

[Kilgore Trout]

So you were a guest in the US, (possibly became a citizen or was born as one by an immigrant, and that is a point in itself), took benefit from all the things you were entitled to; free schooling, govt. assistance, tax returns etc.

Now it seems you are using the best thing America taught you; that is is not only ok but right and just to express your opinion freely; you are using that right to advocate limiting the free speech of others because you don't like or agree with what they are saying.

When you grew up in the US, how many times did your family complain about things, or criticize a politician etc.?

You can't have it both ways; I think one of the things people complain about is the double standard attitude you get here, of which you seem to be promoting.

[philw]

Thing is submaniac you are dead FxxxxG right and spot on.

Thank you for expressing this opinion.

I am a Brit, but like you am sick of the constant childish generalisations, negativity and insulting comments about Thai people that proliferate here.

I think the problem is that there are just too many ignorant and stupid posters and their ugly racism is tacitly supported by the many fools on here.

I also think it is a lot worse now than it was a few years ago.

Good for you for speaking out.

[h90]

Freedom comes with responsibility. It does not give license to demean others.

Freedom means that there will be things with which you don't agree and which you don't like.

With the excuse of fighting racism, islamists, child porno, nazis, etc etc they just abolish freedom of speech.

If you want freedom you also must live with some unpleasant ugly things. Which is still better than being in an reeducation camp for having the wrong opinions.

[Furbie]

subamaniac,

I understand your point – but you’re looking from a very Thai perspective. I’m an American and see many anti-American comments on TV – I do not conclude TV is racist from that.

Also keep in mind, many people on TV interact with a very low level of Thai society, teach at low-end public schools, sit in bars all day long, are in middle of Nakorn-a-nowhere Thailand with nothing to do all day but post their vitriol and hope someone pays attention to them. Some of them are not happy people and blame Thailand for their unhappiness, instead of taking a good hard look at themselves.

That being said, Thailand IS still a developing country and has numerous problems such as corruption, poor education standards, land rights issues, etc. When topics like this are raised, people with weak arguments and nothing better to say will bring it down to the lowest common denominator so they can contribute to the discussion. But let’s be realistic, there are some issues that, despite seeming racist, are simply true. Thai culture, in particular the Phuyai system, does allow corruption to flourish in Thailand.

If you want to have a voice in the debate, you need to respond with facts and counterarguments that disprove people’s wrong impressions. You won’t convince the world, but that’s the way it is. I know it takes a thick skin, but don’t take it so personally.

[lovelomsak]

I feel I understand mostly what you are saying. It seems to me after being in Thailand for years that many foreigners donot grasp the reality they arenot in their homeland or in their culture. Seems to me many expect Thais to be similar to people in their home country. Sure they wear t shirts the same as foreigners not tribal wear. Sure they drive new cars and ,trucks just like foreigners homeland. Sure they are upwardly mobile same as at home. But they are a different culture until a foreigner accepts that and stops judging from their life experiences at home, they will never understand Thailand or its people.

I am Canadian and I find many Europeans judge me by my nationality. They donot even know me but discard everything I say as not meaningful. One even went as far as to state he couldnot relate to people who have not read english literature so he saw no need to talk to me. I read and owned all Charles Dickens before I was 16. Another one who I thought had some decent character,I invited to Canada to sail the west coast with me on my boat. He came and wrecked the whole experience by simply being an aloof fool.I took him to my Royal Yacht Club and all he did was huff and puff and stammer became a complete imbecile.Well trying very hard to look down at me.It was like I didnot deserve to assocate with that class of people. But he showed me he was incapable of associating. He was all bluff about his place in the class system.

So when you read these imbecile post just remember the source. And donot let them drag you down to their level.

This guy was married to a Thai and had done absolutely nothing to learn about Thai culture. He like many others walk through life in a vacuum.

Edited September 14, 2012 by lovelomsak

[maxme]

I feel I understand mostly what you are saying. It seems to me after being in Thailand for years that many foreigners donot grasp the reality they arenot in their homeland or in their culture. Seems to me many expect Thais to be similar to people in their home country. Sure they wear t shirts the same as foreigners not tribal wear. Sure they drive new cars and ,trucks just like foreigners homeland. Sure they are upwardly mobile same as at home. But they are a different culture until a foreigner accepts that and stops judging from their life experiences at home, they will never understand Thailand or its people.

I am Canadian and I find many Europeans judge me by my nationality. They donot even know me but discard everything I say as not meaningful. One even went as far as to state he couldnot relate to people who have not read english literature so he saw no need to talk to me. I read and owned all Charles Dickens before I was 16. Another one who I thought had some decent character,I invited to Canada to sail the west coast with me on my boat. He came and wrecked the whole experience by simply being an aloof fool.I took him to my Royal Yacht Club and all he did was huff and puff and stammer became a complete imbecile.Well trying very hard to look down at me.It was like I didnot deserve to assocate with that class of people. But he showed me he was incapable of associating. He was all bluff about his place in the class system.

So when you read these imbecile post just remember the source. And donot let them drag you down to their level.

This guy was married to a Thai and had done absolutely nothing to learn about Thai culture. He like many others walk through life in a vacuum.

I'm a bit curious... How exactly are the Europeans judging by your nationality?

[simple1]

@submaniac - it's a shame you didn't follow your own advise when previously posting virulent anti Islamic comments - given your post I assume this activity will now cease

[AussieTrent]

I could not agree more with the OP. I rarely if ever post replies on this forum. I mostly read the news and occasionally browse some other topics. I have often wanted to say something but to be honest there are too many outspoken, severe negative or arrogant opinions that follow. I believe in tolerance and try to tolerate all that I can.

Some really good reading on this topic is by Kwame Anthony Appiah, particularly his book "Cosmopolitanism" it really delves into this topic and has some great things to say.

[simple1]

Freedom comes with responsibility. It does not give license to demean others.

You will certainly get counter argument from US TV members using the freedom of speech justification.

[KRS1]

Submaniac, don't take farangotangs too seriously, they really aren't worth it.

Although they think they are - that's the problem.

The behavior has been getting worse though I agree. I attribute this to younger farangs coming to Thailand. They are usually more ignorant, uneducated, and quicker to pull the trigger before thinking.

[maxme]

Submaniac, don't take farangotangs too seriously, they really aren't worth it.

Although they think they are - that's the problem.

The behavior has been getting worse though I agree. I attribute this to younger farangs coming to Thailand. They are usually more ignorant, uneducated, and quicker to pull the trigger before thinking.

So we fit right in you mean?

[hookedondhamma]

I feel I understand mostly what you are saying. It seems to me after being in Thailand for years that many foreigners donot grasp the reality they arenot in their homeland or in their culture. Seems to me many expect Thais to be similar to people in their home country. Sure they wear t shirts the same as foreigners not tribal wear. Sure they drive new cars and ,trucks just like foreigners homeland. Sure they are upwardly mobile same as at home. But they are a different culture until a foreigner accepts that and stops judging from their life experiences at home, they will never understand Thailand or its people.

I am Canadian and I find many Europeans judge me by my nationality. They donot even know me but discard everything I say as not meaningful. One even went as far as to state he couldnot relate to people who have not read english literature so he saw no need to talk to me. I read and owned all Charles Dickens before I was 16. Another one who I thought had some decent character,I invited to Canada to sail the west coast with me on my boat. He came and wrecked the whole experience by simply being an aloof fool.I took him to my Royal Yacht Club and all he did was huff and puff and stammer became a complete imbecile.Well trying very hard to look down at me.It was like I didnot deserve to assocate with that class of people. But he showed me he was incapable of associating. He was all bluff about his place in the class system.

So when you read these imbecile post just remember the source. And donot let them drag you down to their level.

This guy was married to a Thai and had done absolutely nothing to learn about Thai culture. He like many others walk through life in a vacuum.

I'm a bit curious... How exactly are the Europeans judging by your nationality?

He wrote very well; he didn't say 'all', but 'many'. This was an experience solely restricted to himself. I've never had any Europeans judge me. I've had a couple of Australians joke about my country but it's just friendly banter.

But anyways, this thread is going to be interesting. Especially with a topic that reads 'The Hotbutton Racism Thread' in a thailand-related forum.

Pseudolus is banned. The other thread about 'offensive comments towards thais possibly being against thai law' didn't bring enough people who would've been banned out, so I guess this is the next attempt.

I believe it is way too early to start a thread on this - I highly doubt old wounds have been healed, as witnessed by the last explosive thread from a couple of weeks ago. It's just bound to increase anger on both sides, while cleaning up the TV member registry.

Edited September 14, 2012 by hookedondhamma

[Huayrat]

Most of what you said is true so whats the problem

[carmine]

Note to the OP.

I see you still have that childish "one liner" at the bottom of each post you make and i note you are also fully aware that there are other members that don't appreciate it

Kindly remove it as i find it offensive and racist then i will sit down and read your racism post.

You sound like a hypocrite so heres an oppotunity to prove you are not.

[carmine]

@submaniac - it's a shame you didn't follow your own advise when previously posting virulent anti Islamic comments - given your post I assume this activity will now cease

And then you might want to answer this but as i say, please remove the racist jibe on every post you make first, theres a good fellow

[h90]

@submaniac - it's a shame you didn't follow your own advise when previously posting virulent anti Islamic comments - given your post I assume this activity will now cease

Since when is Islam a race?

[GuestHouse]

It is a common theme across TV threads that expats will spill out rants about foreigners in their own home country, often stating the reason why they came to Thailand was the foreign invasion back home. The racism the OP identifies is from these same people - it is not universal across TV members but it is common.

However it cuts both ways.

The overt racism in western societies of a generation ago is fast being challenged ( another common theme here on TV is expats complaining about this process of change, which they wrap up in the catch all evil of Political Correctness).

Racism is a social problem which societies need to challenge but which also needs to be challenged by individuals in our individual words and actions.

While I entirely agree with the OP that the racism we see on TV (against Thais and others) is not accepable and must be challenged, the bigger question is not racism against one group/ racism by one group - the issue is racism in all its forms and from all sources.

In this respect we need to ask are we as individuals playing a part, is our society playing a part?

Like thr OP I am disgusted by the examples he gives. Unlike the OP I feel I can be justly proud of the efforts made by my society to combat racism, while abhouring the racism of a small number of expats from my own home.

That is not to say I hold the OP responsible for the failings of Thai society to address its own racism, but I do ask the OP if he has challenged the wider bigotry and racism when he finds it here on TV or is this only an issue when directed against Thais?

My own record on this is there to see, I regard it a duty to challenge racism, mysogamy, homophobia and bigotry when I come across it, I've had many a squable here in TV over these very issues.

There are many others who do likewise.

The OP has spotted the 'Like Button', I suggest he takes a look at the 'Report Button' and challenges all bigotry, not just that for which he feels he personally is a victim.

There is a lot I do not like about TV moderation but to the credit if this forum the mods very actively support the constant battle against bigotry in all its forms.

Edited September 14, 2012 by GuestHouse

[apiwan]

I have to agree , with OP ,

However when we see Ferrari kid as )an example ) kill a copper , and yet all my thai friends have accepted that he ain't gonna serve 1 min in jail, these being successful people it makes you think about the society your in.

And in the west if that was the deputy PMs son ( example ) the country would want him on trial and if convicted slung in jail.

No matter how rich he is,

If somebody run down my kid and came offering me money ,and I knew he wouldn't go to jail I'd put a bullet in his head,

that's the difference between our society and upbringing , comes from education,

But has I have decided to live here it's ( when in rome)

[carmine]

Come on submaniac, you already know what the thread is going to turn into.

As for comparing slavery with the 'demeaning comments towards thais', there really is no comparison. America is just as different as thailand.

As far as being too sensitive though, there is an equivalent here - ' ... think too much/ tink too mut '

No need for starting a thread and then leaving, because when the s*** hits the fan, as it always does, certain people will come out of the woodwork which you more than likely will respond too.

I do recommend that if it does grate you that much, just try to spend as much time away from TV as you can. You can't change someone's opinion no matter how hard you try. That starts from within. Otherwise you're subjecting yourself to endless irritation and unnecessary migraines.

Ofcourse he knows what this will turn into. And no, it won't be closed because he's having a general pop at foreigners, bless him.

[h90]

Note to the OP.

I see you still have that childish "one liner" at the bottom of each post you make and i note you are also fully aware that there are other members that don't appreciate it

Kindly remove it as i find it offensive and racist then i will sit down and read your racism post.

You sound like a hypocrite so heres an oppotunity to prove you are not.

That brings the freedom of speech vs. political correctness nicely on the point.

Everyone is for freedom of opinion and freedom of speech as long as it is the one opinion....but at different opinion it must be banned immediately.

So Submaniac is strongly against bashing Thais and think it is racist.

But bashing British is complete normal and a sign of freedom of speech.

[lovelomsak]

Note to the OP.

I see you still have that childish "one liner" at the bottom of each post you make and i note you are also fully aware that there are other members that don't appreciate it

Kindly remove it as i find it offensive and racist then i will sit down and read your racism post.

You sound like a hypocrite so heres an oppotunity to prove you are not.

That brings the freedom of speech vs. political correctness nicely on the point.

Everyone is for freedom of opinion and freedom of speech as long as it is the one opinion....but at different opinion it must be banned immediately.

So Submaniac is strongly against bashing Thais and think it is racist.

But bashing British is complete normal and a sign of freedom of speech.

I havenot read any British bashing in TV it seems to me we just give them free wheeling opportunity to do themselves in. Unless I misunderstand bashing.

[topt]

submaniac I used to respect your posts but recently there seems to been a seismic change. As some posters have already said you seem to be appearing a little thin-skinned?

Looking at the comments you posted they could all be taken out of context by themselves and the last one I though a vaguely amusing caricature - accepting that i have no idea in what context it was posted.

I have seen many insinuations/specifics about Brits/English but there is no point in getting upset by all of them otherwise I would be forever down.... in many cases I believe they are not really serious and if they are it is more their problem than mine (see lovesomlak post received as I wrote this).

I do agree generally with GHs comments but often it is not clear what is realy meant and what is in jest.....

edit for spelling

Edited September 14, 2012 by topt

[mrtoad]

Us Brits are perfectly capable of bashing ourselves, without help from colonials.