The Hotbutton Racism Thread

[carmine]

Note to the OP.

I see you still have that childish "one liner" at the bottom of each post you make and i note you are also fully aware that there are other members that don't appreciate it

Kindly remove it as i find it offensive and racist then i will sit down and read your racism post.

You sound like a hypocrite so heres an oppotunity to prove you are not.

That brings the freedom of speech vs. political correctness nicely on the point.

Everyone is for freedom of opinion and freedom of speech as long as it is the one opinion....but at different opinion it must be banned immediately.

So Submaniac is strongly against bashing Thais and think it is racist.

But bashing British is complete normal and a sign of freedom of speech.

I havenot read any British bashing in TV it seems to me we just give them free wheeling opportunity to do themselves in. Unless I misunderstand bashing.

Who do you mean by them?

[simple1]

@submaniac - it's a shame you didn't follow your own advise when previously posting virulent anti Islamic comments - given your post I assume this activity will now cease

And then you might want to answer this but as i say, please remove the racist jibe on every post you make first, theres a good fellow

I have received some very courteous PM's from submaniac regards my post and pointing out I have confused him with other members of TV. He went on to bring to my attention as to why he is not anti- Islamic. I respect his privacy so will not post the detail. I withdraw my post above (cannot delete) and apologise to submaniac.

[canuckamuck]

It's not racism unless it is directed against a race, What we see here is culturism which probably isn't a word. But the difference is discrimination based on people's behavior as a group rather than their ancestry. That being said, I still get what the OP is saying, and his point is valid. people say things here that are insulting to a broad swipe of people and it is done so unfairly and anonymously. This is a sovereign nation and Thais have a right to behave anyway they please within there own laws, or for some, regardless of the laws.

For the record, Thailand has it's own slavery record, and it lasted longer than America's, so no points awarded there.

[hookedondhamma]

It's not racism unless it is directed against a race, What we see here is culturism which probably isn't a word. But the difference is discrimination based on people's behavior as a group rather than their ancestry. That being said, I still get what the OP is saying, and his point is valid. people say things here that are insulting to a broad swipe of people and it is done so unfairly and anonymously. This is a sovereign nation and Thais have a right to behave anyway they please within there own laws, or for some, regardless of the laws.

For the record, Thailand has it's own slavery record, and it lasted longer than America's, so no points awarded there.

Excellent post. This is a great stopper to this entire topic. But Leo bottles have already been smashed and tire irons are slowly making their way from the trunks of taxi-meters.

[yoslim]

I'd like to thank the OP for taking time grouping all those funny posts together, gave me a good chuckle

[tinfoilhat]

Come on submaniac, you already know what the thread is going to turn into.

As for comparing slavery with the 'demeaning comments towards thais', there really is no comparison. America is just as different as thailand.

As far as being too sensitive though, there is an equivalent here - ' ... think too much/ tink too mut '

No need for starting a thread and then leaving, because when the s*** hits the fan, as it always does, certain people will come out of the woodwork which you more than likely will respond too.

I do recommend that if it does grate you that much, just try to spend as much time away from TV as you can. You can't change someone's opinion no matter how hard you try. That starts from within. Otherwise you're subjecting yourself to endless irritation and unnecessary migraines.

do you mean if you don't like it leave?

I think the OP makes a very valid point, and the true irony of the situation is that many on here have married into these families of halfwit children yet persist in regularly bashing thais every chance they get.

One can only imagine what it would be like sharing a bed and a life with these individuals. The daily degradation must require the stoicism of a rock to weather. They must hear a constant barrage of you people ....., and, "in my country......".

[hookedondhamma]

Come on submaniac, you already know what the thread is going to turn into.

As for comparing slavery with the 'demeaning comments towards thais', there really is no comparison. America is just as different as thailand.

As far as being too sensitive though, there is an equivalent here - ' ... think too much/ tink too mut '

No need for starting a thread and then leaving, because when the s*** hits the fan, as it always does, certain people will come out of the woodwork which you more than likely will respond too.

I do recommend that if it does grate you that much, just try to spend as much time away from TV as you can. You can't change someone's opinion no matter how hard you try. That starts from within. Otherwise you're subjecting yourself to endless irritation and unnecessary migraines.

do you mean if you don't like it leave?

I think the OP makes a very valid point, and the true irony of the situation is that many on here have married into these families of halfwit children yet persist in regularly bashing thais every chance they get.

One can only imagine what it would be like sharing a bed and a life with these individuals. The daily degradation must require the stoicism of a rock to weather. They must hear a constant barrage of you people ....., and, "in my country......".

Of course not, tinfoilhat. ThaiVisa is a small piece of land in the world of cyberspace, not the kingdom.

I meant that if it does grate him that much, he should just try to spend as much time away from TV as he can. The OP is in California, not thailand. Also, he can't leave even if he wanted to. That would'nt be very nice for me to suggest using that TV blanket statement. However, something as simple as taking your finger off the computer mouse to access material that makes you irritated - that I did suggest.

[maxme]

Come on submaniac, you already know what the thread is going to turn into.

As for comparing slavery with the 'demeaning comments towards thais', there really is no comparison. America is just as different as thailand.

As far as being too sensitive though, there is an equivalent here - ' ... think too much/ tink too mut '

No need for starting a thread and then leaving, because when the s*** hits the fan, as it always does, certain people will come out of the woodwork which you more than likely will respond too.

I do recommend that if it does grate you that much, just try to spend as much time away from TV as you can. You can't change someone's opinion no matter how hard you try. That starts from within. Otherwise you're subjecting yourself to endless irritation and unnecessary migraines.

do you mean if you don't like it leave?

I think the OP makes a very valid point, and the true irony of the situation is that many on here have married into these families of halfwit children yet persist in regularly bashing thais every chance they get.

One can only imagine what it would be like sharing a bed and a life with these individuals. The daily degradation must require the stoicism of a rock to weather. They must hear a constant barrage of you people ....., and, "in my country......".

Of course not, tinfoilhat. I meant that if it does grate him that much, he should just try to spend as much time away from TV as he can. The OP is in California, not thailand. Also, he can't leave even if he wanted to. That would'nt be very nice for me to suggest using that TV blanket statement. However, something as simple as taking your finger off the computer mouse to access material that makes you irritated - that I did suggest.

I think it would be more appropriate to say that he should follow his own advice before handing it out.

[robblok]

The thing we as foreigners don't belong to the group of Thai's. Normally if i were to spot a group of Dutch football hooligans who are doing stupid things i would make comments about the hooligans and leave out the Dutch part because i am Dutch. I don't feel connected to them but see them as a group of hooligans, a sub group of all Dutch people with certain behaviors. Now if an English guy sees them he might say, dam_n dutch idiots because he is not dutch and does not have to divide the group further down to exclude himself from the group.

Here we just see many crazy things and many bad things groups of Thais do, but we don't divide it down more we just say Thai's and be done with it. While it could have been a gang of Thais and the Thais would say stupid gang bangers but we just say Thais we are not included in the group so no need to distance ourselves further.

It is a fact that a lot of things are wrong here in Thailand, and usually its a certain group of people maybe lower class people or idiot high so ect. But we dont differentiate.

If i were to say those stupid red isarn farmers im sure you would not feel bad Submaniac because you don't belong to that group. If i said those damm corrupt politicians instead of damm corrupt Thais you would still not feel bad. We just generalize too much because its easy.

But i for one don't feel bad if someone is saying stuff about druggie Dutch or stupid bodybuilders because i don't feel im part of that group. Maybe i got a thicker skin.

Also don't forget many Thais themselves are quite racist.

[submaniac]

To everyone,

Thank you for your responses. Just to reiterrate I am trying to stay out of it. And when I say that I mean that I want people to say what's on their minds, and what they think without the fear that I am going to get into a fight with them over their response. (And Guesthouse, I am saying this to you in particular because I completely repect you and I just wanted to let you know why I am not saying anything).

I don't want to turn it into a "me controlling the thread". What it is is that I made a comment. I expect people to respond freely to it. I don't want to respond for fear of what I say being judgmental of what they had to say. It's called freedom of speech. You don't like what I have to say, then contradict me. Feel free to criticize me. I have my own faults and prejudices like everyone else. If you want to say I am full of s__t, then by all means say it. That's the point of me writing this thread.

I just got sick of bottling up my feelings for so long. When I wrote this, I've been on Thaivisa long enough to know I wasn't going to get alot of hugs and kisses. Frankly, I don't care anymore. I'm tired. If anyone has bottled up their feelings, now's the time to let loose.

And as to the Brit bashing, I didn't mention any nationality in my original post. I don't want to turn this into a bash of one people. I will admit I have said things bashing the British in the past, which I do not want this thread to turn into. And as an explanation, my feelings were based upon the fact that for alot of these posts that I am having a problem with...I doubt highly that it was an American, Canadian, New Zealand, or Australian accent I was reading. I got tired of listening to it myself without saying something back. And if you're offended at my comments as to the British, realize that I felt the same way when it was directed towards the Thais.

One of the reasons I wrote this post is because of what happened. You see, one of the people who read the posts that I didn't like was theblether, who is British. He was one of the people (and was not the only one) I saw that actually took a stand and disaproved of the comments. Then I went off and insulted his people in a thread. But he actually read the comments and knew what was being said and why I was getting upset. He actually came onto the thread and defended me after I just insulted his country. Then I felt terrible, because I had not jabbed the people making these comments, but I also realized that there were a whole lot of other British on this board that have been nothing but kind, wonderful people that I just insulted too.

[GuestHouse]

It's not racism unless it is directed against a race, What we see here is culturism which probably isn't a word. But the difference is discrimination based on people's behavior as a group rather than their ancestry.

If, on the off chance, you ever find yourself in court on racism charges I would strongly advise that you don't rely on the above as your defence.

[hookedondhamma]

Also don't forget many Thais themselves are quite racist.

I still find it hard to use the term 'racism' here in thailand. Partly because many have not been exposed to other cultures through means other than the tv, (seeing a westerner from another country bang a bargirl doesn't exactly give one the right to talk as if one knows all people outside of SE Asia, either). If someone eats McDonalds, black pudding and Pizza Hut doesn't make someone any more 'westernized' than the next person. Sure many love to complain about the slow infiltration of 'non-thai values' slowly making their way into this country - but everything is always changing, even culture (though my thai friend insists thai culture doesn't change), and money talks.

Of course you will have the idiots that go out of their way to discriminate against others due to their fear of not wanting to find out the truth; but while living in thailand, I still can't call thais racist. Sorry about that. Back on topic.

I think you pointed something out that is worth repeating - generalizations. And as many can see from the many posts on here, it goes both ways - with westerners and thais on the forum.

[carmine]

To everyone,

Thank you for your responses. Just to reiterrate I am trying to stay out of it. And when I say that I mean that I want people to say what's on their minds, and what they think without the fear that I am going to get into a fight with them over their response. (And Guesthouse, I am saying this to you in particular because I completely repect you and I just wanted to let you know why I am not saying anything).

I don't want to turn it into a "me controlling the thread". What it is is that I made a comment. I expect people to respond freely to it. I don't want to respond for fear of what I say being judgmental of what they had to say. It's called freedom of speech. You don't like what I have to say, then contradict me. Feel free to criticize me. I have my own faults and prejudices like everyone else. If you want to say I am full of s__t, then by all means say it. That's the point of me writing this thread.

I just got sick of bottling up my feelings for so long. When I wrote this, I've been on Thaivisa long enough to know I wasn't going to get alot of hugs and kisses. Frankly, I don't care anymore. I'm tired. If anyone has bottled up their feelings, now's the time to let loose.

And as to the Brit bashing, I didn't mention any nationality in my original post. I don't want to turn this into a bash of one people. I will admit I have said things bashing the British in the past, which I do not want this thread to turn into. And as an explanation, my feelings were based upon the fact that for alot of these posts that I am having a problem with...I doubt highly that it was an American, Canadian, New Zealand, or Australian accent I was reading. I got tired of listening to it myself without saying something back. And if you're offended at my comments as to the British, realize that I felt the same way when it was directed towards the Thais.

One of the reasons I wrote this post is because of what happened. You see, one of the people who read the posts that I didn't like was theblether, who is British. He was one of the people (and was not the only one) I saw that actually took a stand and disaproved of the comments. Then I went off and insulted his people in a thread. But he actually read the comments and knew what was being said and why I was getting upset. He actually came onto the thread and defended me after I just insulted his country. Then I felt terrible, because I had not jabbed the people making these comments, but I also realized that there were a whole lot of other British on this board that have been nothing but kind, wonderful people that I just insulted too.

I understand you staying out of it because with the initial post you probably feel your jod is done.

If you are genuine why not make a second such post outlining some of the xenophobic posts towards foreigners by thais that you MUST HAVE HEARD and that will go some way to justifying your initial post. Well....

[TommoPhysicist]

I just got sick of bottling up my feelings for so long. When I wrote this, I've been on Thaivisa long enough to know I wasn't going to get alot of hugs and kisses. Frankly, I don't care anymore. I'm tired. If anyone has bottled up their feelings, now's the time to let loose.

The 'report' button is there for a reason, if you don't like a post, report it.

If the mods agree with you, it will be deleted. No need to start a thread about it.

[submaniac]

@ carmine-why don't you do it. If you feel that there are xenophobic posts by Thais, make your point then. I'm not stopping you.

[robblok]

To everyone,

Thank you for your responses. Just to reiterrate I am trying to stay out of it. And when I say that I mean that I want people to say what's on their minds, and what they think without the fear that I am going to get into a fight with them over their response. (And Guesthouse, I am saying this to you in particular because I completely repect you and I just wanted to let you know why I am not saying anything).

I don't want to turn it into a "me controlling the thread". What it is is that I made a comment. I expect people to respond freely to it. I don't want to respond for fear of what I say being judgmental of what they had to say. It's called freedom of speech. You don't like what I have to say, then contradict me. Feel free to criticize me. I have my own faults and prejudices like everyone else. If you want to say I am full of s__t, then by all means say it. That's the point of me writing this thread.

I just got sick of bottling up my feelings for so long. When I wrote this, I've been on Thaivisa long enough to know I wasn't going to get alot of hugs and kisses. Frankly, I don't care anymore. I'm tired. If anyone has bottled up their feelings, now's the time to let loose.

And as to the Brit bashing, I didn't mention any nationality in my original post. I don't want to turn this into a bash of one people. I will admit I have said things bashing the British in the past, which I do not want this thread to turn into. And as an explanation, my feelings were based upon the fact that for alot of these posts that I am having a problem with...I doubt highly that it was an American, Canadian, New Zealand, or Australian accent I was reading. I got tired of listening to it myself without saying something back. And if you're offended at my comments as to the British, realize that I felt the same way when it was directed towards the Thais.

One of the reasons I wrote this post is because of what happened. You see, one of the people who read the posts that I didn't like was theblether, who is British. He was one of the people (and was not the only one) I saw that actually took a stand and disaproved of the comments. Then I went off and insulted his people in a thread. But he actually read the comments and knew what was being said and why I was getting upset. He actually came onto the thread and defended me after I just insulted his country. Then I felt terrible, because I had not jabbed the people making these comments, but I also realized that there were a whole lot of other British on this board that have been nothing but kind, wonderful people that I just insulted too.

Sub with the Brit bashing you perfectly illustrate my point, you see some people doing something you don't like. They are British so you generalize and bash all the Brits while there are many who are perfectly nice . You just identified a common connection between them (them Brits) and commented. No need to go any further to distance yourself from them.

That is the same way many of us react we see Thais do stupid things we just say Thais and with it hurt many perfectly good Thais.

[carmine]

@ carmine-why don't you do it. If you feel that there are xenophobic posts by Thais, make your point then. I'm not stopping you.

No i didn't think you would. Point proven. Good day to you.

[robblok]

@sub

You might have just insulted the Blether even more he is Scottish and although they are Brits they don't always like being called a Brit

[hookedondhamma]

To everyone,

Thank you for your responses. Just to reiterrate I am trying to stay out of it. And when I say that I mean that I want people to say what's on their minds, and what they think without the fear that I am going to get into a fight with them over their response. (And Guesthouse, I am saying this to you in particular because I completely repect you and I just wanted to let you know why I am not saying anything).

I don't want to turn it into a "me controlling the thread". What it is is that I made a comment. I expect people to respond freely to it. I don't want to respond for fear of what I say being judgmental of what they had to say. It's called freedom of speech. You don't like what I have to say, then contradict me. Feel free to criticize me. I have my own faults and prejudices like everyone else. If you want to say I am full of s__t, then by all means say it. That's the point of me writing this thread.

I just got sick of bottling up my feelings for so long. When I wrote this, I've been on Thaivisa long enough to know I wasn't going to get alot of hugs and kisses. Frankly, I don't care anymore. I'm tired. If anyone has bottled up their feelings, now's the time to let loose.

And as to the Brit bashing, I didn't mention any nationality in my original post. I don't want to turn this into a bash of one people. I will admit I have said things bashing the British in the past, which I do not want this thread to turn into. And as an explanation, my feelings were based upon the fact that for alot of these posts that I am having a problem with...I doubt highly that it was an American, Canadian, New Zealand, or Australian accent I was reading. I got tired of listening to it myself without saying something back. And if you're offended at my comments as to the British, realize that I felt the same way when it was directed towards the Thais.

One of the reasons I wrote this post is because of what happened. You see, one of the people who read the posts that I didn't like was theblether, who is British. He was one of the people (and was not the only one) I saw that actually took a stand and disaproved of the comments. Then I went off and insulted his people in a thread. But he actually read the comments and knew what was being said and why I was getting upset. He actually came onto the thread and defended me after I just insulted his country. Then I felt terrible, because I had not jabbed the people making these comments, but I also realized that there were a whole lot of other British on this board that have been nothing but kind, wonderful people that I just insulted too.

I think this is a great post, and the last paragraph was very well put.

The thing is though, old memories die hard. People fight fire with fire, this is apparent in the TV forum. So, sometimes it's just best to find a way to release feelings via another way beside voicing them in the TV forum, otherwise you're inviting the same criticsm - albeit on a darker level - than what you've dished out. But I'm sure you know that already, and have experienced it, first-hand.

Which is why it would'nt be a bad idea if this thread was closed before things get to that level, again. But it's all how you see it, OP. In this case, you are the sole person who can still put the lid back on the box.

[submaniac]

Sub with the Brit bashing you perfectly illustrate my point, you see some people doing something you don't like. They are British so you generalize and bash all the Brits while there are many who are perfectly nice .

and at hookedondhamma,

This is my point. Because I was too busy being angry at a few...that I insulted the whole. Even though I know on a logical level that the entire group does not feel the same way. And I insulted the good unintentionally by trying to take a swing at the bad. Then people may start realizing that if they feel slighted by the Thais, it might be because another Falang slighted them. It's a cycle...the point of this entire exercise is to express how you feel so it can be a learning experience for those who wish to learn and understand about another people...and realize that how they react is not so different from how you would react under the same circumstances. Some people will get the point of the exercise...some people will not.

[Thaddeus]

@sub

You might have just insulted the Blether even more he is Scottish and although they are Brits they don't always like being called a Brit

Even when playing a game invented by the French....................

[TommoPhysicist]

it might be because another Falang slighted them.

Yet you are the one using the derogatory racist term to describe all 'white foreigners'.

[carmine]

Sub with the Brit bashing you perfectly illustrate my point, you see some people doing something you don't like. They are British so you generalize and bash all the Brits while there are many who are perfectly nice .

and at hookedondhamma,

This is my point. Because I was too busy being angry at a few...that I insulted the whole. Even though I know on a logical level that the entire group does not feel the same way. And I insulted the good unintentionally by trying to take a swing at the bad. Then people may start realizing that if they feel slighted by the Thais, it might be because another Falang slighted them. It's a cycle...the point of this entire exercise is to express how you feel so it can be a learning experience for those who wish to learn and understand about another people...and realize that how they react is not so different from how you would react under the same circumstances. Some people will get the point of the exercise...some people will not.

If you hadn't meant to stir up a hornets nest then you would have worded your stupid little post very differently, wouldn't you.

[maxme]

Sub with the Brit bashing you perfectly illustrate my point, you see some people doing something you don't like. They are British so you generalize and bash all the Brits while there are many who are perfectly nice .

and at hookedondhamma,

This is my point. Because I was too busy being angry at a few...that I insulted the whole. Even though I know on a logical level that the entire group does not feel the same way. And I insulted the good unintentionally by trying to take a swing at the bad. Then people may start realizing that if they feel slighted by the Thais, it might be because another Falang slighted them. It's a cycle...the point of this entire exercise is to express how you feel so it can be a learning experience for those who wish to learn and understand about another people...and realize that how they react is not so different from how you would react under the same circumstances. Some people will get the point of the exercise...some people will not.

I'm pretty sure that many here would even agree with you if you didn't post contradictive statements.

If you don't like what is being said, face them head-on. Whenever one of the posters get attacked we either make a rebuttal or in some cases retaliate... which is not recommended but if you want people to listen to you then stop spitting out remarks like you did before, because it just puts you in the same level as the ones you accuse of being racists really.

[lovelomsak]

After reading all these posts it came to mind that the english language has room for much error in its usage. People perhaps leave too much to what they consider understood and unnecessary to state. For example a person may make a statement about British people and others take it as a generalization. When in fact they meant a specific group of British people but didnot take the time to state a specific group in their haste to say what they wanted to say. I personally know many great British people through sailing. But I never met any British people like the ones I have met in Thailand till I came here. So personally I can say from experience there are many different mindsets and concensus groups in all ethnic groups, that I have encountered.

So maybe to eliminate confusion maybe we should all specify what segment of society we are discussing so people not included donot take offense.

[canuckamuck]

It's not racism unless it is directed against a race, What we see here is culturism which probably isn't a word. But the difference is discrimination based on people's behavior as a group rather than their ancestry.

If, on the off chance, you ever find yourself in court on racism charges I would strongly advise that you don't rely on the above as your defence.

The defendant is charged with first degree racism. How do you plea?

Not guilty your honor, I am a culturist.

I see. Case dismissed. The Canuck is free to go.

[hookedondhamma]

I think it has more to do with the fact that we're scattered all over, and don't know each other closely. That makes all the difference. There are discrepancies in every language, but using the internet in a casual manner is bound to up those discrepancies.

Another poster has chimed in about the use of generalizations. While I think being more specific would be a great practice, the fact of the matter is generalizations are clearly the more resorted to tactic.

One can fold one's arms and go running into the corner crying or one can realize that everyone has their own view, and therefore take what is relevant from any conversation that which will make him a better person, or perpetuate the cycle.

Opinions, if not tackled early on will form into beliefs. And beliefs are hard to change.

Edit*

[TommoPhysicist]

The defendant is charged with first degree racism. How do you plea?

Not guilty your honor, I am a culturist.

I see. Case dismissed. The Canuck is free to go.

Or in Thailand

'I see. Case dismissed. The farang is free to go.'

[h90]

it might be because another Falang slighted them.

Yet you are the one using the derogatory racist term to describe all 'white foreigners'.

Yes I would also prefer to be called Creamy or Pinki, or maybe "Pink Colored" would be nice. not Farang.

[h90]

It's not racism unless it is directed against a race, What we see here is culturism which probably isn't a word. But the difference is discrimination based on people's behavior as a group rather than their ancestry.

If, on the off chance, you ever find yourself in court on racism charges I would strongly advise that you don't rely on the above as your defence.

The defendant is charged with first degree racism. How do you plea?

Not guilty your honor, I am a culturist.

I see. Case dismissed. The Canuck is free to go.

Actually racism is not misused for many different things....

being an Atheist and don't agree with some religion tries to mess your life -->You get called racist.

Don't like that gays bugging you, because they think you are handsome -->You are racist

Think the educational system in Thailand is bad-->you are racist

Tell that it is bad that the Isralis slaughter Palaestinens--> you are a racist Nazi

complete misuse of the word race.

If someone is born with a different colored skin and you don't like him just because of this, than you are a racist.

If a certain culture/religion/country behave like idiots, than it is not racism.