Rutnin Eye Hospital - Good/ Bad?

[tig28]

Last Friday I attended Rutnin to be evaluated for cataract surgery -- arriving at a very busy hospital I was processed and commenced moving through several tests and an interview with the Doctor. I arrived at 12 noon and the procedure was completed at 3.30 pm. I then had a second consultation with the doctor.

I had requested an appointment with Dr.Roy Chumdermpadetsuk and found him to be communicative and prepared to discuss all aspects of the surgery openly and clearly -- he speaks perfect English. Dr. Roy (as he is called) is obviously very knowledgeable and I am confident in putting myself in his hands.

After the final informative discussion about the options we decided that in my case a mono-focal lens would be the most suitable. The total cost for one eye shall be B55,000 -- B60,000.

I intend to have the procedure at the end of next month and shall advise.

[MahaYellow]

From the medical point of view some of the most common causes of eye

infections are poor personal hygeine, shared towels and infrequent washing

of hands, apart from some other mode of transmissions such as from certain

types of flies transmitting trachoma.

As long as your eyes do not come into contact with unwashed hands or

contaminants you are pretty much safe from infection.

This is one reason why I always wash my hands after I shook hands as you

never know where those hands had been ! Good thing the Thais wai !!

Any ophthalmic problem is best dealt with at an eye hospital or at an eye

department, as even in the UK I find that general practitioners are clueless

when it comes to eyes.

[Sheryl]

Last Friday I attended Rutnin to be evaluated for cataract surgery -- arriving at a very busy hospital I was processed and commenced moving through several tests and an interview with the Doctor. I arrived at 12 noon and the procedure was completed at 3.30 pm. I then had a second consultation with the doctor.

I had requested an appointment with Dr.Roy Chumdermpadetsuk and found him to be communicative and prepared to discuss all aspects of the surgery openly and clearly -- he speaks perfect English. Dr. Roy (as he is called) is obviously very knowledgeable and I am confident in putting myself in his hands.

After the final informative discussion about the options we decided that in my case a mono-focal lens would be the most suitable. The total cost for one eye shall be B55,000 -- B60,000.

I intend to have the procedure at the end of next month and shall advise.

Glad to hear it worked out. It tends to be the case in Thailand that email communications are poor (in fact many places simply igniore all emails in English) and there is little correllation between that and the medical care -- different folks involved. A hassle especially for those trying to plan a trip from abroad but so it goes. Rutnin is tops in terms of quality of care and sounds like you have a doc with a good communication style as well; tyhanks for sharing his name.

[Tep]

What you describe is absolutely typical of standard Thai medical practice: providing the right care, effectively, but failing to explain to the patient or address patient fears and issues. There are exceptions, of course, but this is the norm. Some Thai doctors even view a patient asking questions as an attack on the doctor's professionalism or indication if distrust And medical training in Thailand does not emphasize, as it does in most western countries, the art of explaining things to patients in terms they can understand. The assumption is that patients are incapable of understanding medical matters and that a "good" patient is passive and leaves it all to the doctor.

Which is why I always recommend consulting docs who trained/worked in a western country, they are much more likely to feel comfortable discussing and explaining and entertaining questions.

Your comments are very sensible. I had cataract surgery at Rutnin a couple months ago and will have the second eye done next month. it is a top class facility. The surgeon's English was excellent. He was, however, very didactic in his explanations and gave instructions to his nurse on my treatment on the assumption that I would concur with everything. However, I am a difficult patient. I will not allow anyone to run a procedure on me without telling me first and, preferably explaining why. The nurses don't like me when I refuse the 'complementary' blood pressure test when I go for dental work etc. I also prepare for meetings with Doctors like the one at Rutnin by working out my questions and writing them down and making sure I ask them. The doctor and his nurse were surprised at this presumption but they got used to it. I understand the doctor has to see many patients and time is a premium but they must be able to put the patient at ease with information and communication. I watched the oncologists treat my father like a lab specimen during his terminal prostrate illness more than 20 years ago. Your comments about Western standards of care did not apply then in Australia. Perhaps things have changed since I've been here in Thailand. My father had limited formal education and was so intimidated by the medical specialists that he could not ask any questions and suffered in silence. So I support your comments about the need for medical staff to understand the role of communication in patient care.

[dekestone]

Last Friday I attended Rutnin to be evaluated for cataract surgery -- arriving at a very busy hospital I was processed and commenced moving through several tests and an interview with the Doctor. I arrived at 12 noon and the procedure was completed at 3.30 pm. I then had a second consultation with the doctor.

I had requested an appointment with Dr.Roy Chumdermpadetsuk and found him to be communicative and prepared to discuss all aspects of the surgery openly and clearly -- he speaks perfect English. Dr. Roy (as he is called) is obviously very knowledgeable and I am confident in putting myself in his hands.

After the final informative discussion about the options we decided that in my case a mono-focal lens would be the most suitable. The total cost for one eye shall be B55,000 -- B60,000.

I intend to have the procedure at the end of next month and shall advise.

This was nearly identical to my experience at Rutnin (though a different doctor). I had the surgery last March and am very pleased with the results and the follow up.

[p_brownstone]

The nurses don't like me when I refuse the 'complementary' blood pressure test when I go for dental work etc.

Well, I really don't think that's at all sensible.

For a lot of Surgery - particularly major but even relatively minor operations like Dental - high Blood Pressure can affect the procedure and, under the stress of the procedure, induce negative reactions in the Patient - YOU.

That's why they try to insist on these Tests - after all, if it's complementary what do they gain by performing them?

Patrick

P.S.

And I am pretty sure - but not certain - that if you tried to refuse these Tests in the U.S. (for example) before any procedure you would simply be denied treatment, because without the Tests the Doctor could not have a clear picture of your overall health and could therefore lay himself open to a Lawsuit for Malpractice if anything went wrong.

Patrick

[Sheryl]

Yes, there are very sound reasons for taking vital signs on arrival. If for example you subseqwuently faint -- which people sometimes do from pain or fright -- it woudl be important to know what your BP had been on artrival. Or if you develop problems (diziozness, severe HA, whatever) and they need to take your BP then to assess what is happening, it is hard to interpret a result in the absence of info on the baseline.

But I do agree with the rest of Tep's post. In the west in the past 2 decades matters have improved greatly in terms of patients' rights and while of course indioviduals will vary, doctors and nurses are trained now on the importance of explaining things to patients, how to do so in understandable lay terms, patients right to be actively involved in decision making etc. This has yet to rerach Thailand though and of course the very hierarchal aspects of Thai culture will be a barrier to it.

[lopburi3]

Although I agree that explaining in details is hardly common here in most cases where I have questions for doctors they have been open to this if not starting as questioning of there judgement or guns drawn difficult patient. Believe the same winding path works with doctors that works with other aspects of Thailand. As example my family has history of coronary blockage and I as being treated for this. My sister has extremely high Lp(a) (which is not a normal test here) so provided this bit of information to doctor and she immediately accepted and asked for further tests and any information I could provide on sisters treatment. Expect if I had simply asked in normal western fashion why I had not been tested for Lp(a) outcome could have been different. Asking guidance and opinions seems to work. Telling is less likely to be effective. Expect we believe scientific community will not be offended by direct communications but unless they have been exposed to western directness this may not be the case (and even then may not be appreciated). Then again there are those with a holier-than-thou attitude that no approach will be effective but perhaps OK if really the best surgeon.

[tinfoilhat]

From the medical point of view some of the most common causes of eye

infections are poor personal hygeine, shared towels and infrequent washing

of hands, apart from some other mode of transmissions such as from certain

types of flies transmitting trachoma.

As long as your eyes do not come into contact with unwashed hands or

contaminants you are pretty much safe from infection.

This is one reason why I always wash my hands after I shook hands as you

never know where those hands had been ! Good thing the Thais wai !!

Any ophthalmic problem is best dealt with at an eye hospital or at an eye

department, as even in the UK I find that general practitioners are clueless

when it comes to eyes.

what does that have to do with Rutnin?

[MahaYellow]

From the medical point of view some of the most common causes of eye

infections are poor personal hygeine, shared towels and infrequent washing

of hands, apart from some other mode of transmissions such as from certain

types of flies transmitting trachoma.

As long as your eyes do not come into contact with unwashed hands or

contaminants you are pretty much safe from infection.

This is one reason why I always wash my hands after I shook hands as you

never know where those hands had been ! Good thing the Thais wai !!

Any ophthalmic problem is best dealt with at an eye hospital or at an eye

department, as even in the UK I find that general practitioners are clueless

when it comes to eyes.

what does that have to do with Rutnin?

I am just responding to some comments.

If you do not like the post simply don't read my posts.

[tig28]

Further to my prior posts:

Four days ago I attended Rutnin for cataract surgery on my right eye. After this treatment my opinion of the hospital is excellent. The facilities are first class and the staff ease the patients through the procedure in a friendly and competent manner.

The surgeon I had selected ----- who had previously explained all aspects of the surgery including fully answering my questions in detail ----- continued this approach prior to each step of the procedure. Dr. Roy Chumdermapetsuk (known in the hospital as Dr. Roy) obviously believes in ensuring that his patients are as fully informed as possible. His brief summaries prior to each step are obviously intended to reduce patient anxiety and were appreciated.

Arriving at 12 noon the staff suggested I have lunch at the hospital coffee shop. A little before 1 pm I went to the third floor where shoes/sox/watch/wallet and shirt are replaced by a theater gown. I was then placed in a semi private cubical on a reclining armchair to wait.... and wait. Two + hours. Perhaps three -- no watch. Sedatives and many eye drops are given. Complimentary foot massage is offered.

Eventually taken to the pre-theatre room where two anesthetic injections were given below the eye above the cheek bone. These cause loss of sight ( and I assume immobilization of the eye)

then finally into theater for the actual surgery. This took probably about thirty minutes.

With my right eye covered I was released at about 7.30 pm & told to come back at 11 am the next day. At about 11.30 Dr Roy examined my eye -- took some tests and photos and after questioning me on pain/discomfort (very little) handed me over to the nursing staff --- requesting a review in one month. As we live far from Bkk he asked me to have an examination locally in 3 days to check for any signs of infection. He emphasized that should I have any unusual pain etc to contact Rutnin immediately. My eye was a little uncomfortable --- but the clarity of vision was remarkable .. even then!

Nurses provided a "care kit" with cleaning materials/antibiotics and pain meds. The cost was at the lower end quoted -- 55,000 Bt.

Even at this early stage the result is excellent. Dr Roy & I had decided to seek a particular vision outcome and it seems that he has achieve exactly what was intended. Having been short sighted for thirty+ years but never requiring reading glasses he proposed that rather than aiming for 100% perfect distance vision (which would in my case would demand reading glasses) that instead he would "wind the clock back" and aim for 85-90% distance vision and allow me to continue to read without glasses.

Nothing during or after was painful --- simply varying degrees of discomfort -- far from fun -- but no real pain.

I am told that my vision shall continue to improve over the next two weeks or so.

I should have done this 2 years ago!!

[lopburi3]

My wife, Thai, had same procedure on right eye on 29th of November at Vejthani Hospital. Arrived at 11 and dilation drops started but by 1300 still little effect so went to lunch and after more drops to operating rooms at 1410 but she still had to wait half hour for full dilation (has always been very slow) and out of operating room about 1530. She was very impressed with doctor explaining every procedure before/during and since operation. Paid the 35,000 baht package charge and departed with antibiotic eye drops (to start next day after bandage removal). Visited 1100 next day for bandage removal/tests/exam and then again on 7th of December and return one month later at which time can make arrangement for other eye. As said very simple procedure and only minor hurt was shot injection (and wife is very sensitive to pain).

[bunnaag]

did anyone had a YAG Laser after cataract operation to treat a secondary cataract?In Rutnin or anywhere else in Bangkok and if so what were the total closts.I had cataract operation 3 years ago and at the moment the vision is worse than before.

[Humbugged]

Is rutnin expensive ?

[lopburi3]

That is subjective - cost was 55k for basic lens cataract package from several posts - at Vejthani my Thai wife paid 35k for same package last month and Bumrungrad package is 44k (without take home medications) but they say average real price is 108k in range 79k-124k. In general would not consider Rutnin especially expensive but have only used for visual field tests myself.

[bkkbudddy]

Hello,

You can't put a price tag on a vision! In Thailand, whenever I have a vision problem, I go straight to Rutnin Eye Hospital Moreover, Rutnin Eye Hospital's fees for outpatient and inpatient services are very reasonable compared to other private hospitals!

[bunnaag]

Hello,

You can't put a price tag on a vision! In Thailand, whenever I have a vision problem, I go straight to Rutnin Eye Hospital Moreover, Rutnin Eye Hospital's fees for outpatient and inpatient services are very reasonable compared to other private hospitals!

of course not for a vision but for YAG laser treatment for secondary cataract you can put a price tag on.

[lovelaos]

Further to my prior posts:

Four days ago I attended Rutnin for cataract surgery on my right eye. After this treatment my opinion of the hospital is excellent. The facilities are first class and the staff ease the patients through the procedure in a friendly and competent manner.

The surgeon I had selected ----- who had previously explained all aspects of the surgery including fully answering my questions in detail ----- continued this approach prior to each step of the procedure. Dr. Roy Chumdermapetsuk (known in the hospital as Dr. Roy) obviously believes in ensuring that his patients are as fully informed as possible. His brief summaries prior to each step are obviously intended to reduce patient anxiety and were appreciated.

Arriving at 12 noon the staff suggested I have lunch at the hospital coffee shop. A little before 1 pm I went to the third floor where shoes/sox/watch/wallet and shirt are replaced by a theater gown. I was then placed in a semi private cubical on a reclining armchair to wait.... and wait. Two + hours. Perhaps three -- no watch. Sedatives and many eye drops are given. Complimentary foot massage is offered.

Eventually taken to the pre-theatre room where two anesthetic injections were given below the eye above the cheek bone. These cause loss of sight ( and I assume immobilization of the eye)

then finally into theater for the actual surgery. This took probably about thirty minutes.

With my right eye covered I was released at about 7.30 pm & told to come back at 11 am the next day. At about 11.30 Dr Roy examined my eye -- took some tests and photos and after questioning me on pain/discomfort (very little) handed me over to the nursing staff --- requesting a review in one month. As we live far from Bkk he asked me to have an examination locally in 3 days to check for any signs of infection. He emphasized that should I have any unusual pain etc to contact Rutnin immediately. My eye was a little uncomfortable --- but the clarity of vision was remarkable .. even then!

Nurses provided a "care kit" with cleaning materials/antibiotics and pain meds. The cost was at the lower end quoted -- 55,000 Bt.

Even at this early stage the result is excellent. Dr Roy & I had decided to seek a particular vision outcome and it seems that he has achieve exactly what was intended. Having been short sighted for thirty+ years but never requiring reading glasses he proposed that rather than aiming for 100% perfect distance vision (which would in my case would demand reading glasses) that instead he would "wind the clock back" and aim for 85-90% distance vision and allow me to continue to read without glasses.

Nothing during or after was painful --- simply varying degrees of discomfort -- far from fun -- but no real pain.

I am told that my vision shall continue to improve over the next two weeks or so.

I should have done this 2 years ago!!

Thanks for this informative post. I will go through the same procedure next week with the same Doctor.

[sezzo]

I have been treated at Rutnin for an ongoing glaucoma problem for years and find the experience there to be excellent. I agree with Sheryl and you might feel more comfortable as one of the mentioned western hospitals with a US trained opthomologist. That being said...

Dr. Roy Chumdermpadetsuk. M.D is US trained and is on the staff at Rutnin. He is a specialist tho and might not see you as he only deals with certain eye problems. I would call and ask first

I have been a patient of Dr Roys initially in 2009 when I had a detached retina whilst here on holidays. It was extremely reassuring to be treated and operated on by him as his english is perfect and he goes to extreme lengths to ensure he explains everything to you. I had to spend 4 days in Rutnin after the operation and found that the hospital was more than I expected with comfort, service and I had 100 % confidence in the place. I had a previous retinal detachment operated and treated on at Bumrangrad Hospital and IMO Rutnin is far more superior in service and cost.

I have also been seeing him in the past 4 months now that I am living back in Thailand to treat swelling of the retina. Once again I am more than happy with his manner and his treatment.

[sezzo]

Is rutnin expensive ?

I had the same operation (Retinal detachment repair) at both hospitals between 2005 and 2009. Rutnin was half the price of Bumrangrad

[Rooo]

Just been, had a consultation with Dr Nattawut . The whole process was very professional & cost was very reasonable for what was done.

I have to go back for two cataract operations & insertion of lenses.

I am long sighted, but wear trifocals as my eyes are deteriorating. Was quoted 2 prices 66K to 72 K gor normal lenses,will still need reading glasses to help, or the top of the range trifocals between 88 to 92 per eye.

This will restore my vision to 85-90%, will not need reading glasses, but must have adequate light when reading.

Cost shocked me a bit, but I look at it this way, I spend a lot every year getting glasses made & still have blurred vision due to cataracts.

Does that cost seem reasonable?

[bkkbudddy]

Rooo,

Yes, that sounds reasonable! I would always purchase the best lenses as possible, vision is so important! I can't put a price tag on my vision.

Good luck

[lopburi3]

The more expensive lens is designed to correct vision or focus and have not been proven to be without issues and for that reason health insurance will not pay for anything but normal basic mono focal lens (glasses can correct other problems and often insurance will pay for them) so be aware of that if expecting coverage. I have provided several examples of current price and previous price I have seen for Rutnin was in the 55-60k range for basic lens. Bumrungrad says 44k for there package price but that does not include medications and may not include follow up checks. My wife was charged 35k last month at Vejthani for full package.

[Rooo]

Rooo,

Yes, that sounds reasonable! I would always purchase the best lenses as possible, vision is so important! I can't put a price tag on my vision.

Good luck

The more expensive lens is designed to correct vision or focus and have not been proven to be without issues and for that reason health insurance will not pay for anything but normal basic mono focal lens (glasses can correct other problems and often insurance will pay for them) so be aware of that if expecting coverage. I have provided several examples of current price and previous price I have seen for Rutnin was in the 55-60k range for basic lens. Bumrungrad says 44k for there package price but that does not include medications and may not include follow up checks. My wife was charged 35k last month at Vejthani for full package.

Thank you for your replies, will go back , investigate further & post results.

Thanks again.

[isawasnake]

I would fly back to the USA in 2 seconds. Nothing comes before health, nothing. I would not trust Rutnin with even a proper eye exam. They may get it right, but I would not be confident. This is all coming from a guy who goes there too, as it is the best eye hospital in Bangkok I think. It is sad really.

[lopburi3]

Fly back to the US for one of the most common and safe operations in the world? Up to you but having been the patient in both countries over a period of more than 40 years would have so such inclination. Doctors here are fully competent in such procedures.

[bunnaag]

Fly back to the US for one of the most common and safe operations in the world? Up to you but having been the patient in both countries over a period of more than 40 years would have so such inclination. Doctors here are fully competent in such procedures.

many of them studied and worked many years in America

[isawasnake]

Fly back to the US for one of the most common and safe operations in the world? Up to you but having been the patient in both countries over a period of more than 40 years would have so such inclination. Doctors here are fully competent in such procedures.

many of them studied and worked many years in America

That is the biggest load of bs. In general, those "qualifications" from the US are nonsense if you read them closely. Like a few months doing some procedures in the US. Of course I am not talking about every single case, but go pick a doc at random right now that has some sort of US credential, and read it carefully. If there were doctors being trained in the US here, there would be US quality care, and everybody would go to them as word of mouth would spread. It doesn't happen, not even close, because they are all pretty much equally bad.

[p_brownstone]

Fly back to the US for one of the most common and safe operations in the world? Up to you but having been the patient in both countries over a period of more than 40 years would have so such inclination. Doctors here are fully competent in such procedures.

many of them studied and worked many years in America

That is the biggest load of bs. In general, those "qualifications" from the US are nonsense if you read them closely. Like a few months doing some procedures in the US. Of course I am not talking about every single case, but go pick a doc at random right now that has some sort of US credential, and read it carefully. If there were doctors being trained in the US here, there would be US quality care, and everybody would go to them as word of mouth would spread. It doesn't happen, not even close, because they are all pretty much equally bad.

If, as you suggest, unqualified individuals are allowed to "(do) some procedures in the US" I would be far more concerned about the reliability of US Certification of Doctors / Surgeons than I am about the Thai situation.

As for "quality of care" Thailand vs US (or UK!) you are surely joking - the level of care in Thai (Private) hospitals is top notch - hence Medical Tourism is a growing source of revenue for the Country.

Patrick

[DMC1]

My missis had LASIK done at Rutnin. Top notch, no problems.