Rutnin Eye Hospital - Good/ Bad?

[MrPoker]

I just recently went to Rutnin Eye Hospital for Conjunctivitis in both eyes and they end up doing a procedure that removed the swollen membrane tissue from my eyes. Now, in my right eye, the vision is a little blurry. My left eye is ok, but the conjunctivitis has not gone away 100% yet.. The Doc said that there were some "cornea wounds" and that the vision in my right eye should improve in a few days and she didn't seem very concerned.

I have to say that I'm not confident in their treatment and at times, communication was horrible, especially right before the doctor went through with the procedure of removing membrane.. I'm concerned about the blurriness in my right eye, I've never experienced anything like this. should I get a 2nd opinion or just let things run its course and hope for the best? I've even thought about flying back to the USA to see what the doctors there say, but maybe that's jumping the gun...

[lovelaos]

I have been having monthly treatments in Rutnin for the past 7 months for uveitis in my left eye. I have found the doctors to be extremely professional with good English skills. Perhaps you should email their customer care centre and request a second opinion from another doctor there. I researched the other hospitals before going through with treatment and Rutnin is by far the best eye hospital in Thailand.

[MrPoker]

fair enough, from what I've learned is this stuff is going is pretty common in SE Asia and can take up to 2 weeks for the symptoms to resolve.. Actually, on my follow up appointment yesterday, I did see a different doctor, and she didn't seem too concerned with my issues and that the blurry vision should resolve itself in a few days. But I expected that pretty much..

Good luck with your uveitis treatments..

[tinfoilhat]

I had a nasty case of conjunctivitis a few years back. After being horribly mis-medicated by Bumrungrad and Samitivej, i went to Rutinin.

Both hospitals had me piling on medications like mad with instructions not to discontinue any of the old ones, and i was in excruciating pain, my eyes were photo sensitive when open, throbbing with pressure when closed. I could not read watch tv or even sleep, i was miserable.

Rutinin took a look at the meds, explained to me that some raised intra-ocular pressure, some lowered it some negated the effects of others and the whole mess was causing me more pain than the conjunctivitis which was severe to say the least.

they did not try to sell me new meds, but picked 3 from my supply of about eight and said throw the rest away.

that night i slept for the first time in a week.

I had extreme scarring on the corneas, took 3 more weeks until i could see clearly

I am truly afraid of two things in Asia. Conjunctivitis and centipedes.

Edited September 16, 2012 by tinfoilhat

[kyb789]

Conjunctivitis is very common in Asia. I have had it twice since I've moved here. I see people on the street with it all the time, and they don't seem to even know they have it. Stay clear of anyone with red eyes. It is extremely easy to catch. My gf had it pretty bad and it took 3 weeks to clear. I don't think you need another opinion just yet. Good luck.

[tinfoilhat]

its a thai joke that you get conjunctivitis because you have been looking at things you shouldn't.

[Sheryl]

It sounds like you had what is called pseudomembranous conjunctivitis.

As you are concerned and communication with the doctor was difficult I suggest you put your mind at ease by having a consultation with a Western trained opthmalogoist at one of the big international hospitals like Samitivej, Bumrungrad or BNH. Go to their websites and search qualifications until you find someone trained and board certified in the West. I have in the past consulted soem good US trained eye docs at Samitivej but forget the names.

The consultation will set you back about 1,000 baht or so and that may be well spent for the comfort of being able to have a clear explanation and discussion. Certainly cheaper than flying back to the US! Don't let them prescribe drugs if you already have what is needed (they may do that anyhow, if so when you get to the cashier just refuse saying you already have it).

BTW you are probably fine, I suggest this just to help put your mind at ease. Thai doctors tend not to be good communicators even aside from language issues, it is not part of Thai medical culture to provide much explanation to the patient, but those who trained in the west will have been socialized to the medical culture there and will understand your needs and expectations.

[tinfoilhat]

in my experience english is spoken at Rutnin

[Sheryl]

The OP was treated at Rutnin and did not have the degree of communication needed to set him at ease, per his post. Not clear if due to lack of English speaking. As I mention there is also a cultural issue, hence my recommendation that he consult a specialist who worked and trained in a Western country (there are some at Rutnin but their website does not facilitate identifying them...and it might also be problematic to consult a different doc at the same hospital. Plus,although the care at Rutnin is usually excellent, the patient load is such that doctors do not have as much time to spend with patients as might be desired in terms of discussion...that is morel ikely to be obtained at a private hosp)

[tinfoilhat]

The OP was treated at Rutnin and did not have the degree of communication needed to set him at ease, per his post. Not clear if due to lack of English speaking. As I mention there is also a cultural issue, hence my recommendation that he consult a specialist who worked and trained in a Western country (there are some at Rutnin but their website does not facilitate identifying them...and it might also be problematic to consult a different doc at the same hospital. Plus,although the care at Rutnin is usually excellent, the patient load is such that doctors do not have as much time to spend with patients as might be desired in terms of discussion...that is morel ikely to be obtained at a private hosp)

yes i saw that re-reading the OP.

[MrPoker]

I am truly afraid of two things in Asia. Conjunctivitis and centipedes.

centipedes?

The OP was treated at Rutnin and did not have the degree of communication needed to set him at ease, per his post. Not clear if due to lack of English speaking. As I mention there is also a cultural issue, hence my recommendation that he consult a specialist who worked and trained in a Western country (there are some at Rutnin but their website does not facilitate identifying them...and it might also be problematic to consult a different doc at the same hospital. Plus,although the care at Rutnin is usually excellent, the patient load is such that doctors do not have as much time to spend with patients as might be desired in terms of discussion...that is morel ikely to be obtained at a private hosp)

it wasn't that he couldn't speak English, before he did the membrane removal procedure, he didn't tell me what he was going to do. I was laying on the operating table and had to ask him what he was doing and why.. He said that he had to take out the excess membrane because it was preventing the medicine to penetrate the eye and be effective, otherwise it would take a long time to heal. Also, he didn't ask if I had a friend who took me to the hospital, but asked after I had eye wraps over my eyes and was essentially blind. Luckily, my GF drove me to the hospital, I don't know what I would have done if I was alone. I guess I could have slept in the lobby lol..

after the procedure, the pain in my right eye was excruciating(the eye with more membrane removed), they only suggested acetaminophen and I guess they don't give out stronger pain meds in Thailand like they do in the US.. Anyhow, my eyes made a turn for the better, so I guess there is a method to their madness, so to speak....

Edited September 17, 2012 by MrPoker

[lopburi3]

Yes indeed. Extremely painful bite.

http://www.thaivisa....es/#entry657908

[MrPoker]

yuck!

[Jdietz]

Was that in your eye?

[lopburi3]

FYI: todays English language newspaper has a report of someone eating one to improve his immunity and losing his life - not something to play with.

[JSixpack]

Conjunctivitis is very common in Asia.

After washing your hands in a restroom, avoid (as I do) drying your hands on the common towel often provided. Later, you may rub your eyes. I think this may be a common source of problems--so I've read anyway.

I've never had conjunctivitis or any other problems despite wearing contact lenses daily.

[MrPoker]

Conjunctivitis is very common in Asia.

After washing your hands in a restroom, avoid (as I do) drying your hands on the common towel often provided. Later, you may rub your eyes. I think this may be a common source of problems--so I've read anyway.

I've never had conjunctivitis or any other problems despite wearing contact lenses daily.

I also wear contacts and I have to admit I've rubbed my eyes for as long as I can remember. I guess I finally got unlucky this time..

[ericg1953]

I have been treated at Rutnin for an ongoing glaucoma problem for years and find the experience there to be excellent. I agree with Sheryl and you might feel more comfortable as one of the mentioned western hospitals with a US trained opthomologist. That being said...

Dr. Roy Chumdermpadetsuk. M.D is US trained and is on the staff at Rutnin. He is a specialist tho and might not see you as he only deals with certain eye problems. I would call and ask first

[Sheryl]

it wasn't that he couldn't speak English, before he did the membrane removal procedure, he didn't tell me what he was going to do. I was laying on the operating table and had to ask him what he was doing and why.. He said that he had to take out the excess membrane because it was preventing the medicine to penetrate the eye and be effective, otherwise it would take a long time to heal. Also, he didn't ask if I had a friend who took me to the hospital, but asked after I had eye wraps over my eyes and was essentially blind. Luckily, my GF drove me to the hospital, I don't know what I would have done if I was alone. I guess I could have slept in the lobby lol..

after the procedure, the pain in my right eye was excruciating(the eye with more membrane removed), they only suggested acetaminophen and I guess they don't give out stronger pain meds in Thailand like they do in the US.. Anyhow, my eyes made a turn for the better, so I guess there is a method to their madness, so to speak....

What you describe is absolutely typical of standard Thai medical practice: providing the right care, effectively, but failing to explain to the patient or address patient fears and issues. There are exceptions, of course, but this is the norm. Some Thai doctors even view a patient asking questions as an attack on the doctor's professionalism or indication if distrust And medical training in Thailand does not emphasize, as it does in most western countries, the art of explaining things to patients in terms they can understand. The assumption is that patients are incapable of understanding medical matters and that a "good" patient is passive and leaves it all to the doctor.

Which is why I always recommend consulting docs who trained/worked in a western country, they are much more likely to feel comfortable discussing and explaining and entertaining questions.

In my years on this board as well as from acquainatnces, I have encountered countless cases where a foreign patient was frightened and lacked confidence in the care they were getting. On rare occasion there was indeed something substandard in the care they were getting but the vast majority of the time the care was fine but the communication poor to nonexistant. And nolt only (or even primarily) because of language barrier.

BTW Thai patients don't like this situation much, wither. I have a steady stream of Thai friends and neighbors into my home asking me to help them understand what their doctors are doing/prescribing so that they can have some confidence in it. They may act passive and trusting when with the doc, because they know that's expected of them and they're afraid of causing offense, but they have the same need for understanding what is going on as we do.

[ericg1953]

Well said Sheryl..that is so correct

[sprq]

It sounds like you had what is called pseudomembranous conjunctivitis.

As you are concerned and communication with the doctor was difficult I suggest you put your mind at ease by having a consultation with a Western trained opthmalogoist at one of the big international hospitals like Samitivej, Bumrungrad or BNH. Go to their websites and search qualifications until you find someone trained and board certified in the West. I have in the past consulted soem good US trained eye docs at Samitivej but forget the names.

The consultation will set you back about 1,000 baht or so and that may be well spent for the comfort of being able to have a clear explanation and discussion. Certainly cheaper than flying back to the US! Don't let them prescribe drugs if you already have what is needed (they may do that anyhow, if so when you get to the cashier just refuse saying you already have it).

BTW you are probably fine, I suggest this just to help put your mind at ease. Thai doctors tend not to be good communicators even aside from language issues, it is not part of Thai medical culture to provide much explanation to the patient, but those who trained in the west will have been socialized to the medical culture there and will understand your needs and expectations.

This is pointless. You obviously know nothing about Rutnin Eye Hospital. Speaking as someone who has used it for 30 years, repeat 30, I can assure anybody that it is by far the best place to go for eye problems in Thailand. In fact, I'm amazed that anybody should have English language problems there with the doctors, who all seem to be foreign-trained in their specialities.

The only drawback is the appointment system. It is completely normal to wait at least two hours after your scheduled appointment time before you get your consultation with the doctor. Perhaps it's a problem with my particular doctor, who is extremely good and probably has a lot of other people who favour her too, but I don' t know. In any event, for a simple check-up, I NEVER leave the place less than three hours after arriving on time for my appointment.

[sprq]

it wasn't that he couldn't speak English, before he did the membrane removal procedure, he didn't tell me what he was going to do. I was laying on the operating table and had to ask him what he was doing and why.. He said that he had to take out the excess membrane because it was preventing the medicine to penetrate the eye and be effective, otherwise it would take a long time to heal. Also, he didn't ask if I had a friend who took me to the hospital, but asked after I had eye wraps over my eyes and was essentially blind. Luckily, my GF drove me to the hospital, I don't know what I would have done if I was alone. I guess I could have slept in the lobby lol..

after the procedure, the pain in my right eye was excruciating(the eye with more membrane removed), they only suggested acetaminophen and I guess they don't give out stronger pain meds in Thailand like they do in the US.. Anyhow, my eyes made a turn for the better, so I guess there is a method to their madness, so to speak....

What you describe is absolutely typical of standard Thai medical practice: providing the right care, effectively, but failing to explain to the patient or address patient fears and issues. There are exceptions, of course, but this is the norm. Some Thai doctors even view a patient asking questions as an attack on the doctor's professionalism or indication if distrust And medical training in Thailand does not emphasize, as it does in most western countries, the art of explaining things to patients in terms they can understand. The assumption is that patients are incapable of understanding medical matters and that a "good" patient is passive and leaves it all to the doctor.

Which is why I always recommend consulting docs who trained/worked in a western country, they are much more likely to feel comfortable discussing and explaining and entertaining questions.

In my years on this board as well as from acquainatnces, I have encountered countless cases where a foreign patient was frightened and lacked confidence in the care they were getting. On rare occasion there was indeed something substandard in the care they were getting but the vast majority of the time the care was fine but the communication poor to nonexistant. And nolt only (or even primarily) because of language barrier.

BTW Thai patients don't like this situation much, wither. I have a steady stream of Thai friends and neighbors into my home asking me to help them understand what their doctors are doing/prescribing so that they can have some confidence in it. They may act passive and trusting when with the doc, because they know that's expected of them and they're afraid of causing offense, but they have the same need for understanding what is going on as we do.

This is very true, but I will say I have noticed changes in recent years at Samitivej Hospital Sukhumvit, where I usually go. These days I seem to get doctors who know that they should explain things to a Westerner, and are happy to do so. Perhaps that's because I always choose the doctor for my problem from their website, where you can clearly see the doctors' specialities, how much foreign training they have had, what languages they speak, and what they look like too.

[Globeman]

its a thai joke that you get conjunctivitis because you have been looking at things you shouldn't.

Yes, they are great believers in karmic punishment - despite all the evidence to the contrary, like thieving politicians who get away with it for their entire lives...

[ericg1953]

It sounds like you had what is called pseudomembranous conjunctivitis.

As you are concerned and communication with the doctor was difficult I suggest you put your mind at ease by having a consultation with a Western trained opthmalogoist at one of the big international hospitals like Samitivej, Bumrungrad or BNH. Go to their websites and search qualifications until you find someone trained and board certified in the West. I have in the past consulted soem good US trained eye docs at Samitivej but forget the names.

The consultation will set you back about 1,000 baht or so and that may be well spent for the comfort of being able to have a clear explanation and discussion. Certainly cheaper than flying back to the US! Don't let them prescribe drugs if you already have what is needed (they may do that anyhow, if so when you get to the cashier just refuse saying you already have it).

BTW you are probably fine, I suggest this just to help put your mind at ease. Thai doctors tend not to be good communicators even aside from language issues, it is not part of Thai medical culture to provide much explanation to the patient, but those who trained in the west will have been socialized to the medical culture there and will understand your needs and expectations.

This is pointless. You obviously know nothing about Rutnin Eye Hospital. Speaking as someone who has used it for 30 years, repeat 30, I can assure anybody that it is by far the best place to go for eye problems in Thailand. In fact, I'm amazed that anybody should have English language problems there with the doctors, who all seem to be foreign-trained in their specialities.

The only drawback is the appointment system. It is completely normal to wait at least two hours after your scheduled appointment time before you get your consultation with the doctor. Perhaps it's a problem with my particular doctor, who is extremely good and probably has a lot of other people who favour her too, but I don' t know. In any event, for a simple check-up, I NEVER leave the place less than three hours after arriving on time for my appointment.

We probably see the same Dr. as my wait is also 2-3 hrs for my quarterly check ups for glaucoma. At this point I expect it..have some lunch in the small restaurant on the ground floor behind the eyeglass shop and just take a book along. I agree..its a great place and I wouldnt think of going anywhere else.

[Anon999]

in my experience english is spoken at Rutnin

English is the language spoken at Rutnin unless otherwise requested, as can be seen on the notices prominently displayed.

[maxme]

Never had any problems with eyes yet , but from what i have heard about them, so far so good.

[bkkbudddy]

Greeting,

I was treated for eye infections, had Lasiks and annual eye exams done at Rutnin Hospital. Hands down, Rutnin Hospital's Ophthalmologists are the best in Thailand based on personal experience! Rutnin Eye Hospital's fees are very reasonable compared to other private hospitals in Bangkok.

[Sheryl]

There is no question about the quality of care provided at Rutnin and the thread is perhaps poorly titled. As became evident the OP's problem stemmed from lack of communication -- NOT because of lack of English speaking, just failure by the doctor to explain what s/he was doing, which in my experience is very common in Thailand. As the procedure the OP underwent was unexpected and invasive, he was understandably a rattled by it and worried. Presumably his vision is now back to normal and all well.

[tig28]

From all I have read -- Rutnin is held in very high reguard -- but unfortunately I have encountered a few problems.

Living well away from Bangkok but planning to be there for a few days in October I decided to try to get an appointment for initial assessment for cataract surgery at Rutnin during a forthcoming visit.

Their web site provides no information on the past employment,training,qualifications ---- or any other details which would allow me to evaluate the experience or areas of particular competence of their doctors. This is something that seems "standard procedure" for other prominent hospitals and in my view sadly lacking with Rutnin.

Using the internet I was finally able to identify a particular doctor whose resume impressed me and he attended during the time my intended visit to Bangkok. I applied (in August) for an appointment in October via their on line system. Mutually poor communication skills resulted in a delay of about a week for me to finally find out that the particular doctor was on holiday in October. No big deal -- but odd that I would be called by someone who could not understand me.

I repeated the search process ---- selected a different doctor and again applied for an appointment. By traveling one day early I could fit into his published schedule. In my next request I stated:

"I am a new patient seeking an appointment with Doctor xyz for the afternoon of Friday 19th. October. My flight arrives into Bangkok that day at 9-15 AM --- so any time after 12 noon shall be fine."

After more miscommunications from Rutnin:

"Dr. xyz takes the days off during 10-24 September 2012." I had requested October.

I was finally granted (11 September) an appointment with Dr. xyz on 19th October 2012 at 14.00

Fine -- so I now booked airfares and a hotel nearby.

Two days ago (3rd October) I received an email from Rutnin advising a schedule change by the doctor - required a timing change for my appointment:

"Please arrive to the hospital at 10.40 with your passport and contact the Information counter on the 1st floor for new patient registration."

I replied immediately (3/10) again pointing out my travel times and requesting alternatives --- but to date have received no response.

It really has become too difficult. The inability of their front line staff to accurately understand the written word -- being called by someone who cannot understand English -- is starting to suggest I may be best served to go elsewhere.

It is a shame as their medical reputation seems excellent. But they have bested me. I have been trying to get an appointment for a month and a half but at this late date -- have been unable to do so.

[tig28]

An update to my above rant--- at 3-30 pm today (5/10) I received en email from Rutnin which said:

"As your flight will arrive to Bangkok at 10.10 on 19th Oct, 2012, we would like to inform you that please arrive to the hospital at 12.00 instead (please don’t be late).

Best regards,

Information Department"

The delay in their responce was obviously whilst they tried to sort out appointments to facilitate my arrival time. Despite being halfway through the process of seeking an appointment elsewhere I am grateful to them & shall gladly accept their new time.

Hopefully (certainly) I shall be able to give a glowing report of the process.